saremun Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm glad that they did what they did with the slot machine. Afterall; its a slot machine, you're not supposed to profit from it. In fact it's way better than most real life slot machines because you make at least half the credits you get back from it. Gambling to get the mount, or get the reputation or even the certs from it, i would say justifies using it, but thats just it, its gambling and not a profit machine. Yepe... It was a great move!! The Slot machines even effected BW Cartel Packs sells because people opened the packs in hope of finding the slot machines instead of selling the packs to the in the GTN.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) You aren't supposed to profit from a slot machine anyways... Even the tightest slots in real casinos don't set their loss rate chance on a spin = 45%. And in fact.. the pros set their slots loose enough to be good enough odds at a non-lose spin to keep players pushing coins. Problem is.. even an avid coin pusher is going to quickly realize that they have better odds buying stuff randomly off the GTN with their credits. Edited January 21, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Very true. The mats I gained from the Slot Machine went right back to my crafters to make augments and such, and the Cartel Certs I was winning was going into decorations for my Stronghold and stuff for my alts. Not everyone was looking at these Slot Machines as "money makers", many of us were just enjoying them to enhance our gaming enjoyment with our alts. quoted for truth... many of us wanted it for ourselves and our guilds, not to play Virtual Tycoon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 quoted for truth... many of us wanted it for ourselves and our guilds, not to play Virtual Tycoon... I'm too selfish even for that. I just hoarded everything and nothing went anywhere and I'll probably only slowly craft stuff as needed for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVitrial Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oddball is correct again! Let's elaborate: The average return, or "Theoretical" on a slot machine in the United States is .90 (it is required by law to have this rate of return posted near the Main Cage of every casino in many states the US; some states and Native American casinos excepted). It is a simple Operator Menu function or DIP switch function for the casino to set this rate and is audited by gaming boards/commissions. So, if you put in $1.00, over the long run, you should expect to get on average $0.90 back, including all large jackpots awarded (we're not talking the odds on one spin of a machine on max credits and max lines to win a jackpot, we're talking average rate of return, and games have payout tables pre-programmed to deliver these rates of returns, unlike the slot machine in the game here, which is going on straight odds). These machines are not giving a .90 rate of return. Granted my Stronghold on Coruscant is not the average casino in the United States, but casinos in the United States have devoted billions of dollars and decades of research to find out how to keep a person playing a slot machine and this rate of return is based on many tested variables, financially, psychologically, and otherwise, but most importantly to make the casino money. The key here though is that the person must want to play and then be coaxed into continuing to play and this .89-.90 theoretical rate of return for the player is proven to be optimal (around there, lesser denomination machines can go to .98 while larger denomination machines may go as low as .82, mostly depending on the local competition and laws; a .87 or lower machine would be referred to as "loose" and it is how casinos can prove they have the "loosest slots in town", but only one bank of machines at a casino have to have this better rate of return for them to advertise it, and it is probably a single or pair bank of $100 denomination machine(s)). By law casinos must prove using revenue summaries and audits that they are complying with this advertised/declared/posted theoretical or average rate of return. In conclusion, since this slot machine is not set up to make Bioware money on a spin-by-spin basis (the cartel market packs themselves are Bioware's "casino"), they nerfed this machine to the point that no one would want to play it or continue to play it. Hence mine and many others' presumption that they overreacted without thinking of the other variables that go into playing slots. The machine is useless now, both for the player and operator, but Bioware doesn't know this because they aren't making money off the spins, only on the purchase to get the machine from the cartel pack. The argument that it is gambling/a slot machine and you are meant to lose money is nonsense; it is a business. Any casino that stocked their floor with these would be bankrupt in a week. Having a machine that always loses makes the casino little to no money because no one will play it, and the patron may leave, losing even more money. The cartel market is supposed to be fun, this is not fun or entertainment anymore, nor, because of their error (which was not an error at first according to them) will it ever be fun, because we've already tasted the forbidden fruit of having the loosest slots ever anywhere. They may have ruined us for all slot machines in this game again...if you aren't a slot jockey with an addictive personality (but even then you need to feed them enough "wins" to compel them to stay, otherwise they'll get up and possibly go to another casino, and we definitely don't want them to do that, no, no, they're our bread and butta.). BTW If you didn't realize by now, I work in the gaming industry. Perfectly stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekahn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Maybe it was too good, but for me it comes down to... It was fun, now its not. Especially since my rep is capped. I ask Bioware to take another look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwarzchild Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Very true. The mats I gained from the Slot Machine went right back to my crafters to make augments and such, and the Cartel Certs I was winning was going into decorations for my Stronghold and stuff for my alts. Not everyone was looking at these Slot Machines as "money makers", many of us were just enjoying them to enhance our gaming enjoyment with our alts. This X 100. In it's prenerf state the slot machine was a great addition for people like us who weren't obsessed with how things will look on the GTN. All of the jawa junk I got went into crafting for my alt as he leveled up. All of my scraps went into gathering mats in prep for the conquest events. It's fine that it's back to before, but man was that slot machine fun to have around for other purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm glad that they did what they did with the slot machine. Afterall; its a slot machine, you're not supposed to profit from it. In fact it's way better than most real life slot machines because you make at least half the credits you get back from it. Gambling to get the mount, or get the reputation or even the certs from it, i would say justifies using it, but thats just it, its gambling and not a profit machine. Funny how people wanted a magic slot machine to get stuff easily......kinda like those who exploited Ravagers wanted easy gear. Can't have it both ways folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 as a crafter I welcome the changes to the jawa junk (all 3 of them) drop rates Crafting should be about doing. Going out and collecting the mats Running the missions for the required mats or crafting items for conquest IE Actually doing something related to the skill The machines completely ruined that before now So I welcome the mat drop rates FIX in patch As for the rest, don't honestly care in any way, shape, or form But I also do not understand sitting there playing slots rather then actually playing the game I could (and do support) understand playing pazzaak against other players for minimal bets that do not in any way effect game economy or balance. Least there is some skill and thinking required there for that. But I also dont like Slots in real life so maybe Im bias that way Just glad they FIXED (not nerfed) the drop rates on green, blue, purple mats returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Funny how people wanted a magic slot machine to get stuff easily......kinda like those who exploited Ravagers wanted easy gear. Can't have it both ways folks. exactly! Lord forbid any of these players actually you know, play the damn game correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 exactly! Lord forbid any of these players actually you know, play the damn game correctly And what is "correctly"? Oh, let me guess... YOUR OPINION ON HOW IT SHOULD BE PLAYED? Yea, sorry, doesn't work like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 as a crafter I welcome the changes to the jawa junk (all 3 of them) drop rates Crafting should be about doing. Going out and collecting the mats Running the missions for the required mats or crafting items for conquest IE Actually doing something related to the skill The machines completely ruined that before now So I welcome the mat drop rates FIX in patch As for the rest, don't honestly care in any way, shape, or form But I also do not understand sitting there playing slots rather then actually playing the game I could (and do support) understand playing pazzaak against other players for minimal bets that do not in any way effect game economy or balance. Least there is some skill and thinking required there for that. But I also dont like Slots in real life so maybe Im bias that way Just glad they FIXED (not nerfed) the drop rates on green, blue, purple mats returns. Great, we'll remove your companions then so you can get right out there and start collecting everything yourself manually. Chop chop, you adventurous explorer, you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Great, we'll remove your companions then so you can get right out there and start collecting everything yourself manually. Chop chop, you adventurous explorer, you! post of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Great, we'll remove your companions then so you can get right out there and start collecting everything yourself manually. Chop chop, you adventurous explorer, you! best response i've seen to "this game is supposed to be a full-time job" so far... Edited January 21, 2015 by Elly_Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfyde Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Great, we'll remove your companions then so you can get right out there and start collecting everything yourself manually. Chop chop, you adventurous explorer, you! +1 I concur a nomination for post of the day. Edited January 21, 2015 by wolfyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksilvante Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 post of the day Add another vote for post of the day. Been laughing since I read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayla_Sana Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oddball is correct again! Let's elaborate: The average return, or "Theoretical" on a slot machine in the United States is .90 (it is required by law to have this rate of return posted near the Main Cage of every casino in many states the US; some states and Native American casinos excepted). It is a simple Operator Menu function or DIP switch function for the casino to set this rate and is audited by gaming boards/commissions. So, if you put in $1.00, over the long run, you should expect to get on average $0.90 back, including all large jackpots awarded (we're not talking the odds on one spin of a machine on max credits and max lines to win a jackpot, we're talking average rate of return, and games have payout tables pre-programmed to deliver these rates of returns, unlike the slot machine in the game here, which is going on straight odds). These machines are not giving a .90 rate of return. Granted my Stronghold on Coruscant is not the average casino in the United States, but casinos in the United States have devoted billions of dollars and decades of research to find out how to keep a person playing a slot machine and this rate of return is based on many tested variables, financially, psychologically, and otherwise, but most importantly to make the casino money. The key here though is that the person must want to play and then be coaxed into continuing to play and this .89-.90 theoretical rate of return for the player is proven to be optimal (around there, lesser denomination machines can go to .98 while larger denomination machines may go as low as .82, mostly depending on the local competition and laws; a .87 or lower machine would be referred to as "loose" and it is how casinos can prove they have the "loosest slots in town", but only one bank of machines at a casino have to have this better rate of return for them to advertise it, and it is probably a single or pair bank of $100 denomination machine(s)). By law casinos must prove using revenue summaries and audits that they are complying with this advertised/declared/posted theoretical or average rate of return. In conclusion, since this slot machine is not set up to make Bioware money on a spin-by-spin basis (the cartel market packs themselves are Bioware's "casino"), they nerfed this machine to the point that no one would want to play it or continue to play it. Hence mine and many others' presumption that they overreacted without thinking of the other variables that go into playing slots. The machine is useless now, both for the player and operator, but Bioware doesn't know this because they aren't making money off the spins, only on the purchase to get the machine from the cartel pack. The argument that it is gambling/a slot machine and you are meant to lose money is nonsense; it is a business. Any casino that stocked their floor with these would be bankrupt in a week. Having a machine that always loses makes the casino little to no money because no one will play it, and the patron may leave, losing even more money. The cartel market is supposed to be fun, this is not fun or entertainment anymore, nor, because of their error (which was not an error at first according to them) will it ever be fun, because we've already tasted the forbidden fruit of having the loosest slots ever anywhere. They may have ruined us for all slot machines in this game again...if you aren't a slot jockey with an addictive personality (but even then you need to feed them enough "wins" to compel them to stay, otherwise they'll get up and possibly go to another casino, and we definitely don't want them to do that, no, no, they're our bread and butta.). BTW If you didn't realize by now, I work in the gaming industry. If they changed the slot machiine, which I PURCHASED for my stonghold, to make ME money, I'd be all for that. I bet your friends in the gaming industry would not buy a machine that makes money for someone else!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Before nerf. Result of 1000 coins 500k spent Green rep x 114 x500 credits =57,000 Blue rep x 105 x1000 credits =105,000 Purple rep x 67 x2500 credits =167,500 Total 500000-329500 =170,500 as cost for leftovers of Scrap x 118 Droid parts x 121 Jawa Junk x 150 Certificates x 31 After nerf. Result of 1000 coins 750k spent Green rep x 215 x500 credits =107,500 Blue rep x 133 x1000 credits = 133,000 Purple rep x68 x 2500 credits =170,000 Total 750,000-410,500 = 339,500 as cost for leftovers of Scrap x 2 Droid parts x1 Jawa Junk x 3 Certificates x 0 Before, yes the drop rates were way too high. Now however, there is no incentive to bother since the cost per purple teir 11 mat ends up being over 100k. This goes from being a great credit sink into a decoration. Edited January 21, 2015 by HelinCarnate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Great, we'll remove your companions then so you can get right out there and start collecting everything yourself manually. Chop chop, you adventurous explorer, you! sure, did it in other games with no issue But then again im not whining for everything to be free and easy so I guess I see how this concept terrifies you Lord forbid when you have to enter the real world and get a job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egokrat Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 sure, did it in other games with no issue But then again im not whining for everything to be free and easy so I guess I see how this concept terrifies you Lord forbid when you have to enter the real world and get a job This is called flamebaiting. Randomly insulting people who don't agree with you is not considered a valuable trait in most situations (Though it might be useful for talkshow hosts and the like). The point is the slot machines were a bit too generous before.. hardly anyone denies that. But now they are so bad they aren't fun anymore. You know: Fun. The reason why we play. It's a game. It's not supposed to be about hard work (for purely virtual goods, no less), it's meant to be a fun activity for relaxing after work. So if a majority of players thinks a change in the game makes it less fun... they complain so that Bioware has chance to react to that complaint. Your personal preference is valid and should be voiced, but so is everyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It was useful for me in MY crafting... Now, it's just one more deco item taking up a hook...To me, it's kind of like the Meat Tree deco, except that instead of being a memorial to a bug, it's a memorial to being scammed by BioWare. Not at all a pleasant thing to see anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarie Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm glad that they did what they did with the slot machine. Afterall; its a slot machine, you're not supposed to profit from it. In fact it's way better than most real life slot machines because you make at least half the credits you get back from it. Gambling to get the mount, or get the reputation or even the certs from it, i would say justifies using it, but thats just it, its gambling and not a profit machine. The problem isn't the nerf. The problem is that they offered an item for real $, then backed the item up by saying it was working as intended, then shafted everyone that bought it after being told that it wasn't an exploit. The correct fix is a simple refund. Any retail store would do that. Heck, BW gave ME3 a new ending because the first one didn't live up to the hype. Not doing a simple refund is just terrible customer service, and it is in direct conflict with their traditionally good customer service. And don't lie and say they always had bad service. They've had bugs, and they've had exploits, etc., but they have always tried everything they could to produce great products, and they do their upmost to fix situations where glitches have harmed player experiences. They have a good customer service history, which makes me believe that this nerf is either a mistake, or they are coming back with a refund. If they had been up front about the drops for the item, a great deal of people would have never spent real $ to buy it. If things stand as is, then BW effectively scammed those people, especially after having Eric tell everyone that the machines were working as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elly_Dawn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 sure, did it in other games with no issue But then again im not whining for everything to be free and easy so I guess I see how this concept terrifies you Lord forbid when you have to enter the real world and get a job oh yes, because having a job gives you massive amounts of free time to play a video game... whatever... get off your high horse, trying to insult people you don't know the first thing about, that's just bad form... unless someone directly tells you; you know nothing about a posters age, marital status, job status, income or anything else personal you may like to throw out as an insult... try to keep it to the game and out of peoples personal lives, otherwise your arguments appear to be just grasping at straws and lose validity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachannal Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm glad that they did what they did with the slot machine. Afterall; its a slot machine, you're not supposed to profit from it. In fact it's way better than most real life slot machines because you make at least half the credits you get back from it. Gambling to get the mount, or get the reputation or even the certs from it, i would say justifies using it, but thats just it, its gambling and not a profit machine. Oh shut it. There's a reason people are griping, and it's because Bioware screwed up the initial launch of the slots, and then nerfed them obnoxiously. Out of 400 coins, I got an average of OVER 50% "jackpots" post nerf, and yet not only did I barely make back half of my credits, but i got a grand total of THREE pieces of jawa scrap whereas I used to get about that much per every 50 coins of play. I get ZERO cartel certs now when they would drop about once every 50 plays or so. And the walkers? At a 1/100,000 chance of drop, I'm not holding my breath. I think the slots needed to be mildly nerfed, but they went way overboard on it...and that is why people are complaining. Either deal with it, or plug your fingers in your ears and scream "lalalala". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachannal Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 THIS...this is why the whole debacle is so frustrating. Before nerf. Result of 1000 coins 500k spent Green rep x 114 x500 credits =57,000 Blue rep x 105 x1000 credits =105,000 Purple rep x 67 x2500 credits =167,500 Total 500000-329500 =170,500 as cost for leftovers of Scrap x 118 Droid parts x 121 Jawa Junk x 150 Certificates x 31 After nerf. Result of 1000 coins 750k spent Green rep x 215 x500 credits =107,500 Blue rep x 133 x1000 credits = 133,000 Purple rep x68 x 2500 credits =170,000 Total 750,000-410,500 = 339,500 as cost for leftovers of Scrap x 2 Droid parts x1 Jawa Junk x 3 Certificates x 0 Before, yes the drop rates were way too high. Now however, there is no incentive to bother since the cost per purple teir 11 mat ends up being over 100k. This goes from being a great credit sink into a decoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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