Tait/Eric, some of us would like to talk to you about the Slot Machine changes.

[branmakmuffin]

And this doesn't make me particularly excited for the next slot machine.

Spot on. As I posted, if it stays like this, it's just a tool to get max rep. And I can't say I care all that much about CM faction rep per se.

[LordArtemis]

Normally I don't get annoyed by their decisions (it is, after all, just a game), but these changes are completely silly.

 

Wow. Bioware, take notice....if you annoyed bran of all people, probably the most forgiving guy here when it comes to your mistakes, you are definitely doing something wrong.

[TheSeventhJedi]

A nerf would be cutting the drop rates in half. It looks like they cut them in half, then in half again, and again, and again about a dozen more times. I should be getting 10 jawa junk per 100 tokens, not 1 per 500.

[venomlash]

Okay guise, I was in favor of the nerf, but this was overkill. Seriously? A hundred-fold drop in Jawa scrap returns? That's not cricket. The machine just went from ICBM to spitball.

Also I'm hearing that not only is the mount just a reskin (which I can understand given the short time frame you had in which to throw it together), but it has no name, no icon, and no texture in game.

 

My suggestion: now that NOBODY is playing the slots, you can sit back and take your time to work out sensible drop rates (which you really should have done before releasing such a broken item in the first place). I suggest 3% for the Jawa mats, 2% for the certificate, 0.01% for the mount, 25% lose chance, 20% chance to return a chip, and make the rep token odds fall out however you like for the remaining 43.99%. And then once you've gotten it tuned to where it will be worth playing but won't simply print money to the point where it eclipses crew skills and questing, go ahead and ease the nerf off a few notches.

A simple guarantee to revisit the numbers for fine-tuning over the next few weeks will go a long way with your justifiably angry fanbase.

 

A nerf would be cutting the drop rates in half. It looks like they cut them in half, then in half again, and again, and again about a dozen more times. I should be getting 10 jawa junk per 100 tokens, not 1 per 500.

I'm hearing that the nerf cut the drop rates by a factor of 100. That's cutting it in half 6.64 times, through the magic of logarithms. It's ridiculous.

Edited January 21, 2015 by venomlash

[LordArtemis]

Glad I got all the certs I needed last weekend, then.

 

And this doesn't make me particularly excited for the next slot machine. Looks like I may go back to writing off items that require certificates as unobtainable (as I did before this machine...)

 

If they wanted an effective credit sink, I'd say keep the certificate drop rates what they were - or maybe decrease them a little - but increase the token price significantly. As it is, sounds like it's become more of a time sink.

 

Well, the best course of action would have been to never put scraps on the machine in the first place IMO.

 

Barring that, this is what I had originally suggested.

 

1) Raise the coin price to 2000 per.

2) Double green scrap drop rate.

3) Leave blue scrap drop rate as it was.

4) Cut purple scrap drop rate in half.

 

And leave the rest as is. That would have increased the cost and reduced the drop rate on high end purple mats dramatically. It would have also made it a more effective credit sink, since the appeal would still be high.

 

Then I suggested they boost green mat returns from crew missions by 50 percent, increase critical chance by 10 percent across the board and reduce mission times by 25 percent so crew missions would no longer....suck.

 

Instead they went the mutual assured destruction route. Nuke it into oblivion instead.

 

Now the ONLY thing they can do to fix this absolute debacle, IMO, is to at least return cert drop rates to the former amount (better to double the original rate) and pour the remaining percentage into the token drop, keeping failure rate below 25 percent.

 

They should also increase rare drop rate for the mount to at least match the rancor rate.

Edited January 21, 2015 by LordArtemis

[branmakmuffin]

Wow. Bioware, take notice....if you annoyed bran of all people, probably the most forgiving guy here when it comes to your mistakes, you are definitely doing something wrong.

I think you suggested something like "leave the scrap rate alone, but make the purple much rarer and bump up the greens." Jawa junk dropping like candy might have been a bad idea, but I don't see how green scrap being common was going to hurt gathering.

 

As I and many others have stated, now the machines truly are pointless once you have max rep. And as noted in another thread, this puts a major damper on excitement regarding future machines.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I think if the cert rates were 4 percent, and the rest of the remaining percentage after slicing the scrap to the bone was pushed to the TOKEN drop rate, leaving the loss rate below 25 percent like it was before that would have been a change that most folks could have accepted....perhaps begrudgingly, but I think it would have flown when you factor in the mount.

 

But this...this is plain ridiculous. I thought they were past dummy moves like this. I mean it was pretty foolish to release it as it was, but even more foolish to do this IMO.

 

Cert rate was 2%. Never was 4%.

[BuriDogshin]

Anyone who tries to Patent Troll EA is not in for a fun ride, their in-house counsel definitely have a canned response ...

I used to be in-house, though not in the entertainment industry, and my experience is contrary to your claims.

[LordArtemis]

I think you suggested something like "leave the scrap rate alone, but make the purple much rarer and bump up the greens." Jawa junk dropping like candy might have been a bad idea, but I don't see how green scrap being common was going to hurt gathering.

 

As I and many others have stated, now the machines truly are pointless once you have max rep. And as noted in another thread, this puts a major damper on excitement regarding future machines.

 

Right. Green mats are pretty common right now as it is, so I felt the green mats were harmless and could be doubled without any harm to the market...I mean you can gather them after all. And blue mats are also common because people get them in abundance from running crew missions trying to get purples. So they could remain as they were.

 

But purple drop rates were a concern.

 

The way they originally had it set up it was a 10 percent chance for all three. That is where they made their mistake I think....if you ignore the obvious mistake of putting the scrap on the machine in the first place.

 

The main draw of the machine (other than mat appeal of course) was its win rate and the ability to get certs. Once you get past the rep needs, that remains the draw.

 

IMO if they still had a high cert drop rate and didn't have such a high failure rate...even if that meant you usually only won your token back that would at least allow the machine to retain some appeal.

 

Right now it is dead IMO.

[zoomjoo]

I have to say, I am disappointed with the changes to the slot machines. I thought better of the devs than to give in to people that whine and complain that their greed is not been satiated enough. This change, like most, has been over done.

 

Dissappointing

[LordArtemis]

Cert rate was 2%. Never was 4%.

 

Right, no I know. I was suggesting it should be double the original rate, which puts it at 4 percent.

 

it is currently 1/40th what it was originally.

[Neglience]

Well, the best course of action would have been to never put scraps on the machine in the first place IMO.

 

Barring that, this is what I had originally suggested.

 

1) Raise the coin price to 2000 per.

2) Double green scrap drop rate.

3) Leave blue scrap drop rate as it was.

4) Cut purple scrap drop rate in half.

 

And leave the rest as is. That would have increased the cost and reduced the drop rate on high end purple mats dramatically. It would have also made it a more effective credit sink, since the appeal would still be high.

 

Then I suggested they boost green mat returns from crew missions by 50 percent, increase critical chance by 10 percent across the board and reduce mission times by 25 percent so crew missions would no longer....suck.

 

Instead they went the mutual assured destruction route. Nuke it into oblivion instead.

 

Now the ONLY thing they can do to fix this absolute debacle, IMO, is to at least return cert drop rates to the former amount (better to double the original rate) and pour the remaining percentage into the token drop, keeping failure rate below 25 percent.

 

They should also increase rare drop rate for the mount to at least match the rancor rate.

 

Still to much purple scraps. Players could create 1000+ grade 11 mats per day, with 5% it still would be 500. In no way this can be accomplished with crew missions. A change to 1% or shortly below might be ok but first ...

 

...on important change that should come above everything else: A single player should only be able to interact with one machine at a time. If that is not done, there is no way to "balance" the machine.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Neglience

[Rusah]

I heard about this machine from a youtube vid. I decided to get it off the gtn because i have never, and i will never open a cartel pack as i do not trust the rng drop rates on them. If i was going to get something from buying packs, i would sell unopened packs and use the funds to buy what i wanted off the gtn.

 

I only get cartel items that have practical use, the following is what i had from cartel packs pre slot machine:

Power crystal account unlocked

Crit crystal account unlocked

Endurance crystal account unlocked

1x Autocannon (only have one ac that uses it so legacy no use to me)

MIsc cheap armor and weapons not unlocked for leveling shells

 

Now i would like to say that i do agree with ajusting the drop rates but not to the degree they did. When i got it i had it maybe 2 hours before seeing on the forums that it was bugged. After reading that i put in a ticket detailing what i had used on it and where the items were unused, and stated if it was an exploit using it to feel free to remove the items gained, as i did not want to be part of an exploit and was concerned i unknowingly was.

 

I then waited TWO DAYS for a official response and ticket response from bioware during which i did not touch my machine that i spent 4mil credits on. Then i saw the post saying it was working as intended. So i used it

 

I agree with lowering all the crafting token drop rates, i agree with lowering the cartel cert drop rates, i agree with raising the token cost. But i do not agree with nerfing them into the ground. You have gone from having the drop rates too high to making them too low.

 

This is what i got from a one stack test:

green 23 (11.5k)

blue 22 (22k)

purple 3 (7.5k)

1x Jawa Junk

Fifteen minutes spent clicking plus 34k in the negative for 1 jawa junk, from one extreme to the other. So that means i need to do that 6 times for enough mats to craft 1 augment lol.

 

My suggestion is you need to re-balance them again, you have had them both too high and too low, so find a middle ground between the two that makes it a worth having item, but not an economy destroyer.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Rusah

[NSStember]

The OP presented a very clear and well thought out post with a valid statement. I truly hope BioWare takes a serious look at this.

 

Were a lot of people whining about the drop rates? Yes

Were there also a lot of people quietly enjoying this Slot Machine? Also Yes

 

While I agree the drop rate for Jawa Junk could have been reduced a little, this seems to have gone way overboard and has upset quite a few of those that were silently enjoying what your original post promised wasn't bugged and was working as intended.

[venomlash]

I honestly can't remember the last time there was this much crying on the forums that I actually agreed with.

[halcyon_havoc]

Some of us were actually using the drops for ourselves, not flooding the market for a profit. I can't believe they listened to the boo-hooers that can no longer corner the mats market on this.

[LilyJedi]

You took a gamble, you lost. Stop with this entitled ********. Its right there, in their post, that they would potentially change it.

I fully expected that they would change the drop rate on the Jawa Junk. I have no issue with that, or even the reduction of the purple reputation items. However, even your limited reading comprehension should allow you to see that there was no mention of a 40-fold cut in the chances of getting a CM Certificate, which is the primary reason that I bought the slot machine.

[Rehtiz]

So people who spent cartel coins expecting a machine that gave out a guarenteed profit are annoyed that it no longer gives out the guarenteed profit.

 

LOL

[Wodaz]

Sounds like they tried balancing it with crew missions rates and got it seriously wrong. They should re-balance this again to at least be on par with crew missions for purples. As far as greens and blues...they definitely screwed up. I can go to Yavin and get more greens in 30 minutes then even before the slots got nerfed and blues are guaranteed multiples with every crew mission it was at little more convenient with slots because you don't have to wait on mission timer.

[kharathos]

While I agree that SOME of the Jawa scrap drops may have been a little high the change in their odds today is just terrible. You've gone from making something that was fun and rewarding to now just another thing to sit around in the house and maybe mess with every now and then. Many people are now only going to play this thing for getting the mount and then once they have it never fool with it again. Please consider going back in and redoing the numbers for something in between the two extremes.

 

No one is going to bother with the slot machine period (After maxing out rep). The drop rate for the mount is even more insane then jawa drops atm so Bioware's pitiful attempt to lure players to use the slots will be a total fail now everyone has burned through a stack of two of coins, seen the abysmal drop rates and will remove it from their sh cursing Bioware's continued facepalm fails.

[LordArtemis]

I fully expected that they would change the drop rate on the Jawa Junk. I have no issue with that, or even the reduction of the purple reputation items. However, even your limited reading comprehension should allow you to see that there was no mention of a 40-fold cut in the chances of getting a CM Certificate, which is the primary reason that I bought the slot machine.

 

This. This removed one of the few saving graces of the machine.

 

If you maxed your rep, you could still use it to have a good chance of getting certs for embargoed goods and decorations. But no, that was nerfed into non-existence as well.

 

I am frankly surprised at how many folks are united in their criticism of this move...some folks I would expect to defend it, even some that usually do not complain or defend Bioware are deriding them over this.

 

I think it is obvious that this draconian move was a big mistake.

[OddballEasyEight]

Some of us were actually using the drops for ourselves, not flooding the market for a profit. I can't believe they listened to the boo-hooers that can no longer corner the mats market on this.

 

Yeah, I haven't sold a single material on the GTN.

 

I've used them in crafting though, but only one 99 stack (and not even all of it yet) as I just didn't have enough green mats to make 99 black/red dyes (which is my main source of income).

 

And to be honest, the only difference here has been my profit on the dyes.

I've been running missions for the purple mats, sure, but I've also bought them at silly-high prices off the GTN.

My profit off the dye (which is the fastest selling an most popular dye) has been around 1000-5000 credits on each.

And that's solely due to the high cost of the purple mats.

The rest I've gotten myself from missions.

Hell, if I actually sat down and counted, I'd probably only have a profit margin of 100-500 credits with all the crew missions counted.

 

But now that I had access to purple mats, I've been able to make dyes with a higher profit margin (still running crew missions for the green mats).

But that's the only difference.

 

Oh and prices for the black/red dyes actually went up after the slot machine was introduced.

AND they sold faster than usual.

 

Go figure.

[ghoul_drool]

Dear Bioware,

 

Please tell me in advance if we can expect an UN-NERF of this thing before I flush my remaining tokens down the toilet. Thanks.

[LordArtemis]

Sounds like they tried balancing it with crew missions rates and got it seriously wrong. They should re-balance this again to at least be on par with crew missions for purples. As far as greens and blues...they definitely screwed up. I can go to Yavin and get more greens in 30 minutes then even before the slots got nerfed and blues are guaranteed multiples with every crew mission it was at little more convenient with slots because you don't have to wait on mission timer.

 

Right, a few things IMO of course.

 

Green mats did not pose a danger to the market, period. And in fact I didn't personally see one post complaining about them. You could double the drop rate for greens and it would have been fine...I could still get more mats scavenging.

 

Blue mats are abundant due to the desire to crit for purples, so they hold little value on the market...again, no harm in keeping the drop rate as it was there.

 

Purples were the issue. The drop rate was FAR too high IMO. And should have been at least half if not one quarter what it was. The slot machine became the way to get PURPLES. That was the issue, and that is what needed to get nerfed.

 

There was NO reason, IMO to nerf certs. Nor was there ANY reason to raise the failure rate which was completely obtuse. The extra percentage left over from the drop reduction should have been rolled into the TOKEN drop rate, which was and is harmless IMO.

 

The fail rate should have NEVER climbed above 25 percent.

Edited January 21, 2015 by LordArtemis

[ghoul_drool]

It would have been more fun if it was a totally random loot roll. Here's what I would have done.

 

Remove all the scraps. Instead, keep the odds and at a hit, allow for a roll of ALL the mats that are currently in game. So you could win a single piece of desh, but you could also get an Adaptive Circ. Maybe even include credit boxes into the pool. Why not, seeing as Confiscated Artwork (purple rep) sells for 2500 credits anyway. Grand prize is still a cartel certificate. Ultra Mega Power Rare could be a reskinned mount like the Voranticus or whatever's in the pack.

 

A slot machine like this would be awesome and well worth the 500 credits for a roll. It'd be FUN, would NEVER flood the market with anything and wouldn't give the player the feeling they're throwing their credits away for a loss.

 

The machine was too powerful. Now, it's a short trip to Legend rep at best.