SettGirkkurn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 What amazes me is how Bioware manage to ruin everything that people respond positively to in this game. Ok, amount of mats that were dropping from the machine was ridiculous. It ruined market to some extent (stay with me I will get to that), and it needed to be tuned down. But decision to tuning it down to the point where it becomes completely useless and utter crap is really beyond me. The market got messed up from huge amount of purples for cheap money. However, back then when Bioware introduced color crystals with +41 stats for level 10, complete artifice was destroyed since nobody will ever buy +27 stat crystal when for 400cc (thats less than a month stipend for subscribers) he can get much better one. And that was perfectly fine. Working as intended. Basically, "Here is nice candy for you. Its working as intended. Everything is fine, enjoy nice gift from Bioware!" said in not those words by the man himself Eric Musco. And after "long debate" with devs, someone said "hey, instead of the candy we gave them, lets give them rotten cabbage!" and everyone went with it. We will toss in 2 statistical error mounts (seriously, 0,001% chance?? always remind me to the ship droid who is saying that he has improved hyperdrive by zero point oh-oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh eight percent) and everyone will be happy. Well no they wont. And let me get it straight, I'm not here to beg for 20% drop rate on java scrap, but Bioware needs to understand, that "balancing" is one thing, and ruining and wasting developers and designers time on the machine that everyone will probably never use again is another. Cartel certificates were like 1-2 per 99 stacks. Ok, might be bit high considering cartel market that they care about, but 150/200 per one drop chance is rather ok. So they have increased completely useless rep tokens, and decreased everything else to the infinity. So Eric, Tait would you please be so kind as you were when it comes to the threads to nerf it and come here and comment on this please since I really think I'm not the only one who is completely unhappy about this change? But why I even bother writing this when nobody from BW will read it let alone comment on this, and even less give 2 fu**s about it anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NrDLeipe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 the way i see this is we got tricked, yes slot machine payout was to high , was this there intention.... id say yes. Cartel pack sale i believe went tru the roof no dont have proof blah blah but if seen ppl buy hypercrates cause they specificly wanted that slotmachine ( and ye tbf the rest of the pack is junk ). They knew the payout was to huge, they knew this is money, they knew it needed a nerf and the community will scream for 1. ( lets face it its predictable the whole forums is 1 big nerf scream ). The community is now there bulletproof vest here we screamed nerf, they have there huge sale ( who knows maybe the biggest ever ) . And know there hands are clean cause they nerfed it like the community wanted. Im happy it cost me a bit of creds only made my money back but ye those who blew tons of cash on packs thats badluck for them lesson learned for the next time i would say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If people are going to make 80 threads on the same subject, I'm going to give my take on it in as many of those threads as I want. I also love the mildly Pot & Kettle situation: You do not need the approval of the community to post. Post as you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) It was a screwup, but it's still weird that this all didn't end up being regarded as a screwup on the level of the dealership putting a citrus-scented air-freshener in your new car when you were promised a pine-scented one. I think it is the sum of screwups/issues. People were complaining about lots of things for 3+ years so. But most people were forgiving again and again. Whatever BW did, sure, some people complained. But eventually people gave in, kept on playing - and paying. The slot machine was the straw that broke the camel's back! We had the serious lag issue for many weeks, the exploit thing going on, some have issues with the new discipline system, gold farmers, clipping of capes, new armor sets with errors, PvP ship bolster and what not. Most of these things annoy(ed) just a couple of people. But in a little hyperbole you can say that everyone here had something to be annoyed with. Then they did the slot machine thing which obviously is something which everyone here cares about. Et voilá, you get the biggest Swtor outrage of all Swtor outrages. I am not the least bit surprised about it. Even the biggest defenders of BW switched sides on this one. That says a lot. I also am convinced that most of the people here are not angry that they cannot make millions of credits now just by right-clicking their mouse. That is not how the vast majority play(ed) this machine. It was a fun item and you got some nice stuff. Now you get nothing at all and it is not fun at all anymore. Simple as that. Try this experiment: Give a baby a rattle, let it explore it, eventually find out how it works, watch it having fun with it and then grab the rattle and give the baby a piece of blank wood instead. The emotions will be strong in the baby. And we have all been babies once. The emotions are therefore still in us all, no matter how hard they tried in kindergarden and school to drill them all out of us (maybe it's not so bad anymore these days, but at my time, they still used darkgrey pedagogics to make us fit for life). Edited January 22, 2015 by JattaGin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sense of honesty? Musco misled people into spending a ton of credits for what is now nothing but a worthless decoration. There is no honesty in what BioWare has done here. Credits my butt. Every single Slot Machine began it's life as a purchase using Cartel Coins, and the vast majority of those Cartel Coins came from giving BioWare cold hard cash. Musco misled people into spending real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monterone Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I spent about 70k on slots last night after the patch, and I have not tried it beforehand. A guildie made a casino area on the guildship and he introduced me to slot machines. All I can say is, they are a complete waste of time and money, and are actually kind of insulting. You're basically paying money to buy reputation, so that you can spend more money to be able to buy cosmetic items once you have the rep to do so. Out of the 70k I spent, all I got was green, blue and purple rep items. And I don't intend to buy anything off of those rep vendors, so it was truly a waste of money. Bioware is basically selling reputation, which in turn is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzluPasta Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Would be fun to watch them unnerf the machine, but doubt it will happen. "We determined the nerf was too much which was unintended, so we buffed it once more" *gets nerfed even more by accident* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleurdelis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I had just over 4000 cc's and spent them all buying packs trying to get the slot machine. Not only did I not get one now they were nerfed to being worth nothing. If I knew the machines were going to be like this I would have saved my cc's. I was tricked into spending my coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 My suggestions for possible fixes. I would like to create a list of all of the suggested adjustments to the figures, from different folks, and add them to this list. Please list them as formatted. Thanks. They could change drop rates as follows.... fail - 24.993% token - 26% green rep - 20% blue rep - 15% purple rep - 5% green mat - 6% blue mat - 2% purple mat - 1% certificate - 4% mount - 0.007% This would drastically reduce high end scraps without nerfing them out of existence, increase the mount chance to the one during the NarShadaa Nightlife event, and push certificates up to the level they should be. It also keeps failure level below 25 percent like it should be. Now, if they choose to keep scrap levels at current levels (which, IMO would be fine) fail - 24.993% token - 30.55% green rep - 20% blue rep - 15% purple rep - 5% green mat - 0.2% blue mat - 0.15% purple mat - 0.1% certificate - 4% mount - 0.007% Now this doubles old cert drop rate, making it the main prize along with rep tokens, and rolls the extra percentage into the token drop. The failure rate remains below 25 percent. And here is a third option, if they wanted to go the route of adding a "lucky" buff. fail - 35%/24.993% token - 20%/26% lucky buff - 10% green rep - 16.999%/20% blue rep - 13%/15% purple rep - 4.5%/5% green mat - 0.2%/6% blue mat - 0.15%/2% purple mat - 0.1%/1% certificate - 0.05%/4% mount - 0.002%/0.007% Now, this setup would provide the current numbers, but would boost the numbers as shown in the second set if you hit a "lucky buff", that would last for a certain period of time. This is the best option IMO...it gives players the incentive to roll for a chance to get better numbers...not as good as they were, but much better than they are. This reduces the chances from a pure reset to one of the sets above, which averages out a lower amount overall, but nowhere near as bad as it is now....and players have an incentive to roll. This would be the option I would choose to make everyone happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
light_senshi Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yup. Gotta love how they change something after the wallet warriors get their chance to use it and leave the rest of us just dangling. I was hoping that I'd actually get around to trying it but that's now not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) If it needs a change, maybe raise the chance for the walker a little bit and add some junk items to it with a good sale value to even out the money you have to spend on it. You just created a slot machine. Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beasthunt Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I had just over 4000 cc's and spent them all buying packs trying to get the slot machine. Not only did I not get one now they were nerfed to being worth nothing. If I knew the machines were going to be like this I would have saved my cc's. I was tricked into spending my coins. I feel for you. I do. Since they made most of the end game content useless to run, I found joy in the slots. I read the new mount was coming and I spent 4 mil creds and bought 2 machines for me stronghold. Jokes on me! Yet again they figured out how to take enjoyment out of something and make it an aggravating, almost pointless chore. It's a shame. Knee jerk reactions are never a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghoul_drool Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 They should just redesign the entire thing. I sincerely HOPE that's what they're doing now. I was one of the people who thought that a nerf really WAS necessary, because having a slot machine trumped ALL crew skill missions... but they didn't nerf it, they turned it off. All it's really good for it getting to legend rep. After that one might as well take it out of the Stronghold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I never got one of these slot machines, but I am sure that there are many times more people complaining about the new drop rates than those who complained about the old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 They clearly need to do something...even if it is just another public statement. Clearly quite a few folks are upset about this, myself included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stansman Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The nerf to the slot machine is ridiculous..did Bioware seriously think that we would happily accept such a harsh change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The nerf to the slot machine is ridiculous..did Bioware seriously think that we would happily accept such a harsh change. It was stated and predictable, for the jawa junk. Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It was stated and predictable, for the jawa junk. I don't agree....exactly. It was stated for jawa junk, yes. But not everything but rep tokens in general. And it was predictable if you mean they tend to overcompensate, which this seems to be to some folks, including myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stansman Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It was stated and predictable, for the jawa junk. Not predictable was them nerfing everything else as well, throwing in a mount that needs the luck of a major lottery win to get is not making up at all for the harshness of this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SettGirkkurn Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 throwing in a mount that needs the luck of a major lottery win to get is not making up at all for the harshness of this change. Mount that was put in there cannot even count as "chance" to win, as its more like statistical error. Seriously. 0.001% how much bananas is that anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achwas Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) It was stated and predictable, for the jawa junk. for the Jawa "Junk". It was not announced for the general chance of losing ( which apperantly has almost doubled), nor the [scrap parts or the droid parts. Or even the cartel market certificates. Serious omission aka "lie" if you go by the definition in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary Definition of LIE 1 a : an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive b : an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker 2 : something that misleads or deceives And one really wonders why the community is pixxed about it ? Edited January 22, 2015 by achwas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 And one really wonders why the community is pixxed about it ? No, it is only very, very few people who wonder about it. Most fully understand it. Even people who normally are considered BW's biggest defenders like - I hope it is okay if I mention his/her name as a positive example here - Andryah are agreeing this time. The guy you were responding to is for some reason heavily trying to troll any of the current slot machine threads. I have my own thought as for why he does it. Everyone can think of some reason for themselves, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Would be fun to watch them unnerf the machine, but doubt it will happen. "We determined the nerf was too much which was unintended, so we buffed it once more" *gets nerfed even more by accident* Hasn't this become par for the course? Community: "Hey this is broken!" SWTOR Team: "No, it is working as intended. We aren't going to do anything about it" Community: "Seriously it is really really broken" SWTOR Team: "Well we took another look and yeah, it has a minor issue. We are gonna correct it" Community: "Oh thank you we love you" The patch notes go up, people are happy, but skeptical then the patch goes live... Community: "You broke it even more than it was!" SWTOR Team: "It was never our intent for it to be the way it was originally when we said it was working as intended so we fixed it to be the way it is now and now it IS working as intended." Community: "We hate you BW, you suck. You ruin everything" SWTOR Team: **Crickets** Silently makes a minor adjustment and no one really notices. I give you the SWTOR QA process. Edited January 22, 2015 by RiVaN_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To put it plainly, I think it is unlikely that it was Muscos intention to misinform or be dishonest. I think it is more likely he simply conveyed the information given to him, and I would even further bet he had no real concrete idea on what they had done to the machine. There is no reason to think they told him everything and he decided to hold things back IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To put it plainly, I think it is unlikely that it was Muscos intention to misinform or be dishonest. Your irrational faith disturbs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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