Fury | Concentration Rotation

[pwhdavey]

Hey all. I'm new to Sentinels and this is my first melee class. Using the Concentration discipline.

 

Only level 30 so far but have spent my utility points so far on Defensive Forms (extra 2% DR), Debilitation (Master Strike immobilizes target for duration) and Defiance (generates 4 focus when stunned/knocked down). I am not looking for advice on what disciplines I should be doing since I want to experiment with all of them at end game, but I read somewhere that taking Debilitation is not a good idea. Why is this? It can't be interrupted, and many opponents in PVP (granted, this is in lowbie PVP) use their stun breaker on the immobilization, leaving me free to use Stasis.

[Kyovarde]

I'm hitting as high as 4060 stacking Alacrity with Oofalong's rotation. Crit and surge are dump stats imo.

[Kyovarde]

http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/3120/1

 

4146 parse as Alacrity stacking Concentration.

[vaelphor]

http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/3120/1

 

4146 parse as Alacrity stacking Concentration.

 

what does your gear look like? how much alacrity?

Edited February 26, 2015 by vaelphor

[SkyEye]

what does your gear look like? how much alacrity?

 

I'm full 192 gear with

cca 104 Alacrity r. (2 augments with Alacrity)

100% Acc

25% Crit chance

rest is Power & Power Surge

 

My highest dps on dummy was 4457

[Ardarell_Solo]

Im getting 4450 constantly, no Alacrity, 150 Crit.

[CameoCream]

I get around 4400-4500 with my rotation. I havent done many parses in the spec since.

 

EDIT: (Tried your rotation, hard to tell if my own does more due to the whole rotations damage being based off the crit ratio on Concentrated Slice. Will PM you my own).

Edited February 27, 2015 by CameoCream

[Ardarell_Solo]

Got 4690 using "dummy rotation": http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/9795

 

I still don't use the dummy rotation in ops fights, though...

[Bugattiboy]

Sorry to bump this topic from two months ago, but I just tried the dummy rotation from the Google doc in the first post and either I'm doing something wrong or the rotation just plain doesn't produce 30 centering. It produces enough (32) centering theoretically, but not in-game. The most I've been able to get before Google doc calls for Zen is 28.

 

If I'm the problem I don't know what I'm doing wrong because I'm following the Google doc exactly. Even wrote it out by hand on a sheet of paper so I wouldn't have to alt + tab every time I needed a refresher.

 

Or if this is rotation is no longer relevant, will someone please point to one that is?

 

Either way, it only seems to produce 28 before I get to needing Zen.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Bugattiboy

[Ardarell_Solo]

Sorry to bump this topic from two months ago, but I just tried the dummy rotation from the Google doc in the first post and either I'm doing something wrong or the rotation just plain doesn't produce 30 centering. It produces enough (32) centering theoretically, but not in-game. The most I've been able to get before Google doc calls for Zen is 28.

 

If I'm the problem I don't know what I'm doing wrong because I'm following the Google doc exactly. Even wrote it out by hand on a sheet of paper so I wouldn't have to alt + tab every time I needed a refresher.

 

Or if this is rotation is no longer relevant, will someone please point to one that is?

 

Either way, it only seems to produce 28 before I get to needing Zen.

 

Check my post above for a rotation with reliable Centering generation.

[Bugattiboy]

Check my post above for a rotation with reliable Centering generation.

 

So only use the rotation that clips Master Strike when in 198 gear or better otherwise it's the lower rotation that doesn't clip?

[Ardarell_Solo]

In raids I always use the rotation that has Focused Burst - Force Exhaustion - Concentrated Slice - Master Strike in the first window. Swapping Concentrated Slice and Master Strike is just too risky if you're not 100% lag free - except you're running an absurd amount of alacrity (I use zero in Concentration).

[Bugattiboy]

I see. If I understand correctly, what you're saying is when raiding and/or in less than 198 gear use the lower rotation and only the higher rotation when parsing in 198 gear?

[Skettitangles]

I see. If I understand correctly, what you're saying is when raiding and/or in less than 198 gear use the lower rotation and only the higher rotation when parsing in 198 gear?

 

This is correct. Force Crush and Furious Strike must fall inside Cascading Power and putting Ravage last in the first CP window is the best way to guarantee this

[Ardarell_Solo]

Yep, exactly what you both said :-)

[technomagelight]

The dummy rotation works great for me, but sometimes, my Master Strike only generates 5 Focus. Thinking this is an accuracy issue, but my melee Acc is 100%, so I don't know.

 

Update: One of Master Strike's attacks missing causes this, but I don't know how to fix it.

[oofalong]

The dummy rotation works great for me, but sometimes, my Master Strike only generates 5 Focus. Thinking this is an accuracy issue, but my melee Acc is 100%, so I don't know.

 

Update: One of Master Strike's attacks missing causes this, but I don't know how to fix it.

 

You can't really fix it. There are a total of 6 hits with Ravage | Master Strike. Three MH and three OH; your OH has a much lower accuracy rate.

[SkyEye]

Oofalong could You upload Concentration / Fury guide on Dulfy?

[Aluvi]

The only thing I do differently (and this is more of a PvP thing), is switching Ravage and Furious Strike in the first part of the rotation. Again, more of a PvP thing - you get an insane amount of burst from doing Raging Burst > Force Crush > Ravage > *clip at .2s left with 3-4% alacrity* > Furious Strike. Even if the Furious Strike doesn't land in the window, it's still doing 10k+, and you end up getting the Force Crush last tick hitting for 4-6K, Ravage last tick for 5-8K, and Furious Strike for 10K+.

 

Also, can we all vote this as an 'excellent' thread and get it stickied please? I get tired of linking it to new sent / maras when it eventually gets buried a few pages back.

[Quangus]

Again, more of a PvP thing - you get an insane amount of burst from doing Raging Burst > Force Crush > Ravage > *clip at .2s left with 3-4% alacrity* > Furious Strike. Even if the Furious Strike doesn't land in the window, it's still doing 10k+, and you end up getting the Force Crush last tick hitting for 4-6K, Ravage last tick for 5-8K, and Furious Strike for 10K+.

 

Some questions here since I personally haven´t played much Fury like the other two specs, purely from a PvP-view: (Sorry if things got already answered before, was rushing this thread and might have overlooked some.)

 

Does Fury really benefit from alacrity too or is it better to put everything in power and the rest? Atm I have 5% alacrity in Juyo (8% in Ataru) and this is where I feel the most comfortable in PvP. I was thinking about getting some extra pieces of gear specifically for Fury but IF alacrity is stil important here then I don´t have to change that much.

 

The numbers you posted only come from crits right? How often does that happen? And since Furious Strike is white damage will I see it miss often because of low acc? Minor questions but I basically would like to know if I have to bother with crit and acc here at all.

 

And finally, some off topic questions but do you still play group ranked with your Marauder? I have done so in the past (some months ago during 2.8-3.0) and intend to do so again after I have finished all my medical exams. From what I have learned so far is that Fury is now the preferred spec in ranked mainly because of the stunimmunity. Which other class do you think would work best with the Marauder and would you call me crazy if I wanted to try a Double-Mara/Sent-combo? And if you still play group ranked what are your experiences so far? If this is all too much off topic, I would be happy if you could pn me. Thx in advance.

[Aluvi]

Some questions here since I personally haven´t played much Fury like the other two specs, purely from a PvP-view: (Sorry if things got already answered before, was rushing this thread and might have overlooked some.)

 

Does Fury really benefit from alacrity too or is it better to put everything in power and the rest? Atm I have 5% alacrity in Juyo (8% in Ataru) and this is where I feel the most comfortable in PvP. I was thinking about getting some extra pieces of gear specifically for Fury but IF alacrity is stil important here then I don´t have to change that much.

 

You want power on every mod and every enhancement. You can get Power + Acc and Power + Alacrity. Power is indeed still king. Ideally you want to get about:

 

95% accuracy (melee) / 105% accuracy (force / special attacks) - this counters the 5% defense chance all players have. Some classes / specs have more, but it isn't worth stacking more accuracy. Realistically though, with the way that current itemization works, you'll probably end up somewhere between 94 and 95%, and that's OK for PvP.

70%+ Critical Damage Bonus (Surge) - 70% is where diminishing returns start to really hit, and getting more than 70% starts to become inefficient.

Alacrity - Whatever slots you have left over after achieving as close to 95% accuracy and 70% surge as possible can go to Alacrity.

 

Another way to put it would be:

 

Power = Strength > 95% Accuracy > 70% Crit Damage > Alacrity. Since we have not just one but TWO auto crit abilities now, and since crit rating has such poor returns in general, it just isn't worth getting crit chance. What you'll end up with in practice is 2 alacrity enhancements, one accuracy / power implant, one accurayc / power enhancement, and the rest into surge. It's not perfect. I end up at around 104% accuracy (without going over), 73% Crit Damage, and only 2-3% or so alacrity.

 

Alacrity IS good. 1% alacrity is 1% more dps, period. It makes everything - your GCDs, your abilities with cooldowns, activate faster. As to whether or not alacrity is better than Crit Damage below the 70% soft cap on surge, I'd have to parse it out on a dummy, or better yet, using a theoretical dps testing application. WoW had that, SWTOR does not to my knowledge.

 

The numbers you posted only come from crits right? How often does that happen? And since Furious Strike is white damage will I see it miss often because of low acc? Minor questions but I basically would like to know if I have to bother with crit and acc here at all.

 

Some of the numbers can come from non crits, but yeah, mostly crits. It happens more often than you'd think. Yes, with less than 95% accuracy you will miss the corresponding number of times with Furious Strike, however, it is not a "basic" attack, so it does get 10% more accuracy than your basic attack. Just get as close to 95% acc as you can without going over. You definitely want some acc. Don't bother with crit at all.

 

And finally, some off topic questions but do you still play group ranked with your Marauder? I have done so in the past (some months ago during 2.8-3.0) and intend to do so again after I have finished all my medical exams. From what I have learned so far is that Fury is now the preferred spec in ranked mainly because of the stunimmunity. Which other class do you think would work best with the Marauder and would you call me crazy if I wanted to try a Double-Mara/Sent-combo? And if you still play group ranked what are your experiences so far? If this is all too much off topic, I would be happy if you could pn me. Thx in advance.

 

I can't find people willing to take a mara/sent to group ranked. At least, no one that is good enough that stands a chance of winning. I don't think they are THAT bad, but there are probably better choices. It's not just the stun immunity that makes Fury better. Carnage suffers, as it always has, from getting the Gore window interrupted. It's not hard to just watch for when a Mara has their Gore buff activated and then use a stun, knockback, mez, obfuscate, or something else. Hell, people do it to me constantly as Carnage and they aren't even trying. Fury on the other hand has a lot of "filler" rotation that does not do as much damage. That's how Rage spec was too. You can get stunned a lot and, while it will certainly lower your dps, you still get your burst windows out, and with the stun immunity on every other Force Crush, you're basically guaranteed to get at least one out. A friend and I discussed double mara / sent. The idea would be to rotate predations to keep it up 100% of the time, but with how many roots there are in this game, I don't know how practical that would be, since we would end up needing to use our pred as a root break. The burst potential sounds really solid in theory, but once you get a tank taunting / guarding, heals going out, etc, you're left playing a "hard switch" comp. That means that in order to get kills, you're going to need to time your burst well and cc the tank / heals before you burst a non guarded target (one of the dps). In addition, you need to make sure that DPS doesn't have any damage stop, aka "godmode" cooldowns available, such as Barrier, Vanish, Undying Rage, Enraged Defense, Roll, or, they might simply just have too many decent cooldowns to kill in that timeframe.

 

It's not impossible, but using a dot spread + single target pressure comp like Hatred Sin + AP PT is a whole hell of a lot easier, and the sin and PT also provide additional taunts, better stuns, and their damage output is generally just harder to stop. A PT can kite maras all day if he needs to, and both having a taunt makes tank tunneling impractical. Not to mention that PT tanks will just resist your hardest hitting attacks quite often. My gut feeling is that you could have 4 people play a double mara team perfectly and still lose to an above average Hatred Sin + AP PT. You can use a sniper as well instead of the PT, as they have lots of burst dps too.

 

My feeling is that marauders just don't have enough dps output or utility of their own to make them viable over a PT, Sin, or Sniper. Aoe damage reduction, which was one of their biggest strongpoints, is no longer really required. Their best cooldown, Undying Rage, now is a 3 minute cooldown instead of being what, 1m 15s? pretty sure that's what it was before. On top of that, where we used to get 7-8K x4 in an aoe when people had 30K health pools, now we do 10K x1. Once adjusted for health pool inflation, Ravage does far less damage than it used to. On the whole, marauders do about the same or less damage than any other class in the game, but other classes have far better utility in the form of taunts, cc immunity, better burst, etc. So the spec does mediocre damage (about middle of the road), but doesn't offer anything that other classes have.

 

If taunts were toned down or removed completely in terms of PvP - ie, taunts became useful for PvE only, that would help even the field some. I still don't know if it would be enough. To give you some idea... Smash spec was not even the preferred spec for 4v4 group ranked back before they nerfed it. Carnage with a hard switch burst comp / tank tunnel comp was preferred. Hatred sins now put out far more damage than smash ever could (even adjusted for inflation), have taunts, 19 seconds of CC immunity on a 1 and 2 minute cooldown, not to mention an aoe that has a much larger radius and hits about as hard as smash used to, if not harder.

 

Why play a class that is 10x harder to play to get performance that is just below a class that is mindlessly easy to play like PT or Sin? PT is literally the easiest class in the game. You can screw up your priorities completely and still do great damage. Sins are literally Dot, Dot, Spread, spam 1 ability till you get one of two procs (Mind Crush or Assassinate), repeat. They're getting a "nerf", but they will still be a top class.

 

So no, I won't be playing my sent / mara any time soon. Anyone that claims that they are fine is fooling themselves and has not played other classes enough. PT / Vanguard is my current choice of class. So much easier to play, better overall dps, better burst, better utility, 15 yard range on almost all abilities... I could go on and on. When you take one class that is only the tiniest bit too strong, nerf it into the ground, then buff every other class in the game, you end up with the situation that Mara/Sents are in. The combat / PvP team does not play at the level of a competent PvPer. Nowhere near it. Until they either hire some good pvpers to help them balance it, or start listening to them on the forums, the balance will remain broken. And it IS more broken than it's ever been.

 

I don't want to be the "burden" on my team in solo or group ranked that is the reason that we lose games, and that's what I will be if I play Mara / Sent. I used to be the hero, the one that got the kills, the one that was pushing double everyone elses damage. I can still do that if I play on my Vangaurd / PT or Sin. Clearly I still have the skill to be that player, but my class is letting me down.

[Quangus]

Oh man, I was hoping that you could give me some answers but never expected such a monster-post like this... Thank you very much.

 

Since my stats almost match the ones you posted I will keep it that way, maybe changing here and there just a little bit. ( alacr = 5%, acc 93 % --> this should go up next time)

 

The burst potential sounds really solid in theory, but once you get a tank taunting / guarding, heals going out, etc, you're left playing a "hard switch" comp. That means that in order to get kills, you're going to need to time your burst well and cc the tank / heals before you burst a non guarded target (one of the dps). In addition, you need to make sure that DPS doesn't have any damage stop, aka "godmode" cooldowns available, such as Barrier, Vanish, Undying Rage, Enraged Defense, Roll, or, they might simply just have too many decent cooldowns to kill in that timeframe.

 

That is why me and my "Wingman" chose Juyo at first for ranked encounters. We were too slow for effective hardswitch and don´t have enough tools to deal with all the stuns, roots and other cc. In addition, back at our time "Ardor/Relentless" was not available yet so whenever we used predation/transcendence we were killing some of our own dps by ourselves. With Juyo however we went straight for Tanktunneling.

is one example where our plan and execution went well. For a time, we really had some succes against other teams on our server but you can pull that trick off only for so long before they realize what you´re doing and start spreading more. In hindsight, I of course have to admit that part of our success was the fact that our enemies were not taking any sentinel-groups seriously in ranked and the fact that many players didn´t deliver the full potential their class has to offer. Once they take you seriously though it was all over. As you said, every other class (most of them anyway) can do everything better than the sentinel in ranked and has more utility. So naturally we were in a disadvantaged positon whenever we faced a group that had no sent/mara on their own team and in the long run we just couldn´t keep up. In the end of course, we tried to adapt, at first still with one sent however while the other one was now a shadow. Even though this worked better for hardswitch situations in times like

it still wasn´t good enough overall for most teams.

 

Since I was never seriously testing Fury in ranked, I kinda hoped that at least maybe this spec could promise me better results if somehow done right. But after reading your analysis I think I just stop there and accept the fact that it still isn´t enough.

 

Why play a class that is 10x harder to play to get performance that is just below a class that is mindlessly easy to play like PT or Sin? PT is literally the easiest class in the game. You can screw up your priorities completely and still do great damage. Sins are literally Dot, Dot, Spread, spam 1 ability till you get one of two procs (Mind Crush or Assassinate), repeat. They're getting a "nerf", but they will still be a top class.

 

After a while I leveled a sin/shadow and vanguard to 60 as well and even though I can achieve better results in pvp with them... I don´t know... it just doesn´t give me the same satisfaction personally. The first time I broke 3k dps on my sent, I was 100 times more proud of me than when I did it with my shadow or my sin.

 

I don't want to be the "burden" on my team in solo or group ranked that is the reason that we lose games, and that's what I will be if I play Mara / Sent.

 

They say you can have many but you never forget your first true love. The Sentinel is my first true love in this game (my first mmo as well) and I will stick to this class no matter what, even if that means normal warzones are the only places in pvp where I am not a liability for my team...

 

Anyway, again thx man for your very constructive post.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Quangus

[Aluvi]

Oh man, I was hoping that you could give me some answers but never expected such a monster-post like this... Thank you very much.

 

Since my stats almost match the ones you posted I will keep it that way, maybe changing here and there just a little bit. ( alacr = 5%, acc 93 % --> this should go up next time)

 

 

 

That is why me and my "Wingman" chose Juyo at first for ranked encounters. We were too slow for effective hardswitch and don´t have enough tools to deal with all the stuns, roots and other cc. In addition, back at our time "Ardor/Relentless" was not available yet so whenever we used predation/transcendence we were killing some of our own dps by ourselves. With Juyo however we went straight for Tanktunneling.

is one example where our plan and execution went well. For a time, we really had some succes against other teams on our server but you can pull that trick off only for so long before they realize what you´re doing and start spreading more. In hindsight, I of course have to admit that part of our success was the fact that our enemies were not taking any sentinel-groups seriously in ranked and the fact that many players didn´t deliver the full potential their class has to offer. Once they take you seriously though it was all over. As you said, every other class (most of them anyway) can do everything better than the sentinel in ranked and has more utility. So naturally we were in a disadvantaged positon whenever we faced a group that had no sent/mara on their own team and in the long run we just couldn´t keep up. In the end of course, we tried to adapt, at first still with one sent however while the other one was now a shadow. Even though this worked better for hardswitch situations in times like

it still wasn´t good enough overall for most teams.

 

Since I was never seriously testing Fury in ranked, I kinda hoped that at least maybe this spec could promise me better results if somehow done right. But after reading your analysis I think I just stop there and accept the fact that it still isn´t enough.

 

 

 

After a while I leveled a sin/shadow and vanguard to 60 as well and even though I can achieve better results in pvp with them... I don´t know... it just doesn´t give me the same satisfaction personally. The first time I broke 3k dps on my sent, I was 100 times more proud of me than when I did it with my shadow or my sin.

 

 

 

They say you can have many but you never forget your first true love. The Sentinel is my first true love in this game (my first mmo as well) and I will stick to this class no matter what, even if that means normal warzones are the only places in pvp where I am not a liability for my team...

 

Anyway, again thx man for your very constructive post.

 

I had a lot of time on my hands waiting for regs to pop yesterday =).

 

If the sent / mara class is what you like, then go for it, but I know how soul crushing it is to face inferior or just "as good" players that win through class imbalance. Not that I place any blame at all on the players - they're going to do what works, and right now that has a very limited meta. What disappoints me is that the meta has been the same since about patch 2.8, and BioWare has not done enough to improve other classes to make different comps viable. We had far better overall game balance back in in the 2.0-2.6 era sadly. Balance should get BETTER as they work on the game - not the opposite.

 

Not that they haven't made some improvements - they certainly have, but it just isn't enough yet. Personally, after playing Mara / Sent since beta of this game, which was what, 3 years ago now? I've played them pretty much exclusively since then. Playing other classes gives me a refreshing new look on the game. And really, you should at least understand how to effectively play every class and every spec in the game if you want to be able to counter them properly.