branmakmuffin Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) How do you know that you aren't the vocal minority? So many people I know have been so disappointed with this game recently that they've become apathetic and indifferent to these changes, and are no longer inclined to speak out against the game's continuous stream of new issues. And how do you know that your assertions are true? I'll answer for you: they are not. They are simply your your impressions. I played around with it. I got some CM certs and maxed my rep. Yeah the mats will be nice when I need to upgrade, but I make most of my money from just playing the game and not the GTN. The GTN is part of the game. Therefore "playing the GTN" is "playing the game." And even if it weren't, you are committing a logical fallacy (which name escapes me), namely that your are saying one has to either "play the game" or "play the GTN." Edited January 20, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawanee Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 We love the Slot Machines...both my guilds(not sister guilds across factions) have set up several in our guild ships and strongholds. They are always occupied. Just like the real thing. The jawas and coin vendor are right there. We have a blast!! We're just hoping they make more of them for all the rep vendors! ...and yes I do like things given to me on a silver platter, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JourrnoRush Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Actually... They should ALSO be in the Nar Shaddaa casino... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Actually... They should ALSO be in the Nar Shaddaa casino... No, they should not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctan Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I've been reading about all the posts from people who say the slot machine is horrible the last few days. I really don't understand why. Market prices are pushed down to an affordable rate for items that are entry level to raids/HM. Why is that ruining everything? (I would not call lowering market prices on entry gear handing the masses everything on a silver platter). Do these same people complain when gas prices go down because a small portion of people aren't getting as rich off selling gas now? The GTN market has been ridiculous with prices on mats and this is bringing them down to sane levels. You still make a profit selling mats/crafted gear, just not an insane one. This is probably the best thing they have done for the game's economy, it stabilizes it much better than all the credit sink attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I've been reading about all the posts from people who say the slot machine is horrible the last few days. I really don't understand why. Market prices are pushed down to an affordable rate for items that are entry level to raids/HM. Why is that ruining everything? (I would not call lowering market prices on entry gear handing the masses everything on a silver platter). Do these same people complain when gas prices go down because a small portion of people aren't getting as rich off selling gas now? The GTN market has been ridiculous with prices on mats and this is bringing them down to sane levels. You still make a profit selling mats/crafted gear, just not an insane one. This is probably the best thing they have done for the game's economy, it stabilizes it much better than all the credit sink attempts. It's simple. Most of those folks make millions from selling rare mats and rare (due to the rare mats) crafting for stupid amounts of money on the GTN. Now that prices are going down, their revenue stream is being threatened and thus "it's ruining the economy". And then there are a few who are just trying to deflect the whole "ravagers exploit" issue because they're afraid that they'll be punished for doing that exploit, and thus painting this out as some sort of exploit at the start. And then when BW came out and stated that it wasn't an exploit it was too late for them to back down and now they're just trying to use this as a smokescreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Bioware. Thank you for this slot machine. I am loving it. Not only do I get to set up my stronghold like a casino, but I can also play 100 coins before logging to make a few things to sell before leaving game. I would like Bioware to remember that the people posting here complaining about the market and sky falling as well as the doom and gloom. These people are a very very very small, extremely small portion of the community. I would venture to guess these people make up less than 0.25% of the players overall. I know, they would like you to believe they are the big majority, the large portion of the crafter community. The truth is, they are not, even by a long shot. These are the minority of people who have hoarded, price gouged, etc. And they are upset that their easy money are leaving them. Remember, we have hundreds of thousands of players. And it is safe to assume, if they are not complaining here, then they at minimum indifferent with the addition of the slots. I would go so far as to say there are thousands of people overjoyed with this addition. They are just not vocal on the forums. So I am here to remind you of those who do not even come to the forums, that love this addition. Many from my own guild. People complaining here are maybe 10-20 people total. Please do not remove or change anything based on these voices. Rather take the silent majority as our nod of approval and excitement with this. The complainers here are not even close to being a majority. Prices have pretty much stabilized. From artifice point of view, 186 purple relics are about 60-100k on shadowlands. About normal. Hilts, about the same. Biochem prices are similar, 186 purple implants are 70-100k I could go on and on, but these prices are fair. And this is coming from someone who has 500 in every single crafting skill, but rarely used them to make money. Why? Because the farmers had this market cornered. Now, they do not and cannot regain that control. This is a good thing! The average player now has control. And this is what the market hoarders dislike. If the slots were only available to them....they would not care at all. What a lot of people fail to understand is 186 gear is your basic 156 gear before Shadow of Revan. It should not be 200k per item. There is still 192 and 198 gear. And likely another tier to come down the road. So, in closing, Bioware, please understand, the people that are the vocal majority here complaining, represent an extreme minority in the game overall. Those who are happy with this addition how it is, dont feel the need to come here or dont come here at all. And remember them when you read any complainer. For every one single person complaining, there is likely 300 more who dont post here who are completely happy with this machine how it is right now. Likely represent...it is important to make that distinction. You did say venture, but I caution you that making statements like "These people are a very very very small, extremely small portion of the community." without adding qualifiers like "likely" or "in my view" will cause folks to accuse you of presenting opinion as fact. Well, folks will likely accuse you of that in any case, but at least if you add the qualifiers it would likely cause most reasonable folks to view those that accuse you of that as foolish. I am VERY careful when speculating like this to add qualifiers, which makes it clear that it is just my opinion...not fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I love it! Was able to finally get the remaining REP I didn't have and purchase several items I was not going to pay 10 million on the GTN for. TY Bioware for adding! Please ADD Other REP Slot machines now. It would be nice to be able to farm these machines to get our OTHER long missing items we desire w/o paying out the *** to some smuck that buys hypercrates by the truck load for credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Likely represent...it is important to make that distinction. You did say venture, but I caution you that making statements like "These people are a very very very small, extremely small portion of the community." without adding qualifiers like "likely" or "in my view" will cause folks to accuse you of presenting opinion as fact. Well, folks will likely accuse you of that in any case, but at least if you add the qualifiers it would likely cause most reasonable folks to view those that accuse you of that as foolish. I am VERY careful when speculating like this to add qualifiers, which makes it clear that it is just my opinion...not fact. Actually, in this case it is a quantifiable number. They are a very very small portion of the community. Since he's not saying that the people who don't like the machine are an extremely low number, but the people complaining about it are. (on the forums) And it's easy to check the number of people complaining about it on the forums since you can actually sit down and look through every thread on the subject and count the individual people complaining. No opinion or speculation here, just simply a quantifiable observation. And yes, there are few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Well I'm one of those Troll Crafters who made a couple hundred mil crafting augments and such while the prices were sky high. I still tentatively believe the slot machine did more good than harm: 1) Yes I went and bought one on GTN. I had a second one drop from a hypercrate I found on GTN; that one is going in the guild ship tomorrow when it unbinds. 2) A second bite at old cartel faction rep? Yes please! The CM did not interest me at all until strongholds were released, so I do appreciate the second bite of the apple. 3) Yes prices did come down and I can't sell augments for 200k anymore, but I can craft far more reliably. I don't have to log 8-15 toons to craft anymore (and few things about this game SUCKED more than logging in thinking "I've got 45-60 mins of Troll Crafting--i.e. alt logging--before I actually play the game"). The quality of life for crafters is MUCH better, and now I can craft my wares from two toons instead of sixteen. 4) Accordingly with number 3, some of my crew skills have changed, especially on toons that run dailies--I don't need underworld trading so much anymore for example, so that crew skill slot can be reallocated to a primary resource gathering skill that makes things like dailies more productive. 5) It generally gives me something to do while waiting for a warzone pop or similar queued activity, when the wait for the pop is likely to be short enough that going through loading screens to reach daily areas and/or having other activities interrupted just isn't worth it. As for the market being "flooded," I'm honestly not sure how much of the jawa junk is from slots and how much is from stored and stockpiled conquest rewards. The slot machine was added at the same time the latest crafting mats were added to the jawa vendors--so two potential "floods" of mats were released at the same exact time and were commingled. It's impossible to tell as a player how much of the supply is coming from which source. So I'm waiting for a little bit for the conquest stockpiles to be used and spent down; then I will see where the market stands. Also as a bonus I get to meet new people who are there to play the slots in my publicly listed Nar Shaddaa stronghold, that I would not have met otherwise, and that's a good thing. Edited January 20, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Coragin Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well I'm one of those Troll Crafters who made a couple hundred mil crafting augments and such while the prices were sky high. I still tentatively believe the slot machine did more good than harm: 1) Yes I went and bought one on GTN. I had a second one drop from a hypercrate I found on GTN; that one is going in the guild ship tomorrow when it unbinds. 2) A second bite at old cartel faction rep? Yes please! The CM did not interest me at all until strongholds were released, so I do appreciate the second bite of the apple. 3) Yes prices did come down and I can't sell augments for 200k anymore, but I can craft far more reliably. I don't have to log 8-15 toons to craft anymore (and few things about this game SUCKED more than logging in thinking "I've got 45-60 mins of Troll Crafting--i.e. alt logging--before I actually play the game"). The quality of life for crafters is MUCH better, and now I can craft my wares from two toons instead of sixteen. 4) Accordingly with number 3, some of my crew skills have changed, especially on toons that run dailies--I don't need underworld trading so much anymore for example, so that crew skill slot can be reallocated to a primary resource gathering skill that makes things like dailies more productive. 5) It generally gives me something to do while waiting for a warzone pop or similar queued activity, when the wait for the pop is likely to be short enough that going through loading screens to reach daily areas and/or having other activities interrupted just isn't worth it. As for the market being "flooded," I'm honestly not sure how much of the jawa junk is from slots and how much is from stored and stockpiled conquest rewards. The slot machine was added at the same time the latest crafting mats were added to the jawa vendors--so two potential "floods" of mats were released at the same exact time and were commingled. It's impossible to tell as a player how much of the supply is coming from which source. So I'm waiting for a little bit for the conquest stockpiles to be used and spent down; then I will see where the market stands. Also as a bonus I get to meet new people who are there to play the slots in my publicly listed Nar Shaddaa stronghold, that I would not have met otherwise, and that's a good thing. All I can say here is 'Bravo'. I sincerely liked what you had to say here. You also touched on a few points I had thought of but did not remember to put in my post. Namely switching so many toons to try and get the crew skills to drop a purple. And meeting new people! And dailys being more fun now that there are two world crafting skills instead of one scavenging and archeology for me. Thank you for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Actually, in this case it is a quantifiable number. They are a very very small portion of the community. Since he's not saying that the people who don't like the machine are an extremely low number, but the people complaining about it are. (on the forums) And it's easy to check the number of people complaining about it on the forums since you can actually sit down and look through every thread on the subject and count the individual people complaining. No opinion or speculation here, just simply a quantifiable observation. And yes, there are few Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Well I'm one of those Troll Crafters who made a couple hundred mil crafting augments and such while the prices were sky high. I still tentatively believe the slot machine did more good than harm: (...) Respect for your well written post (which I snipped here, because it is just two or three posts above). Your observations are spot-on and I particularly like that you see the positive side for crafting. When people complained about prices dropping I never understood why they don't realise that the prices are also dropping for stuff they need. Isn't it great that you don't need to log through 16 chars anymore just to send companions on crew missions with unknown outcome? I think it is. Of course, you can still do it, should you not be interested in playing the slot machine. Right now, I do a mix of both. (On a sidenote: What do you do with hundreds of millions credits? I don't think there is enough stuff ingame to spend that much on. ) To the OP: Also very good opening post for this thread. I think the last days on this forum have shown that a vast majority is PRO slot machines. This is my own perception, but if you check the various threads, you will notice an increase in positive opinions and you will also notice that the naysayers are usually the same few names in every thread. Edited January 20, 2015 by JattaGin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I like the machine for many reasons but the one I found most pleasing was the ability to learn and make the purple droid parts for HK who was sitting for over a year unused. HK says "Shall we continue liquidating the undesireables?" Edited January 20, 2015 by Darkwords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 People that are not in guilds or Guilds with no flagship very much enjoy having this since they cannot do Conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Fair enough. Yeah, I wasn't trying to argue. You make a good point, but in this particular case, it's not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarian Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I personally love the slot machine, I can finely get the mounts I have been after for ages without having to spend 20 million. Yeah, for me, there were several BoP reputation things - armor pieces and mounts - that you couldn't get on the GTN at any price, that I'd had my eye on for a long time. But I don't open packs, so I couldn't get the reputation. Until now! Now I've got them all, for a fraction of a fraction of what it would have cost, even if I were willing to open packs. On the one hand, I'd love it if they did this for other shipments...on the other hand, I wonder if that would hurt revenue (and the longevity of the game) if people stopped trying to get reputation from packs and just waited for the next slot machine. But I guess that's for Bioware to figure out. There was one thing that made this a bit more fun to me than the Nightlife casino event: playing in a player-made casino in their stronghold. That was just cool somehow. (And not only because I didn't have to pay for my own slot machine...though there was that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, I wasn't trying to argue. You make a good point, but in this particular case, it's not a problem Sure sure, no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Respect for your well written post (which I snipped here, because it is just two or three posts above). Your observations are spot-on and I particularly like that you see the positive side for crafting. When people complained about prices dropping I never understood why they don't realise that the prices are also dropping for stuff they need. Isn't it great that you don't need to log through 16 chars anymore just to send companions on crew missions with unknown outcome? I think it is. Of course, you can still do it, should you not be interested in playing the slot machine. Right now, I do a mix of both. Oh, yes. I can actually play the game now (On a sidenote: What do you do with hundreds of millions credits? I don't think there is enough stuff ingame to spend that much on. ) I donated an eight-figure amount to the guild to help fund the guild ship pub side (I'm in a small, tight-knit guild where I don't have to deal with drama so I'm cool with that). Other than that, I have found redecorating all four strongholds quite...capital intensive. Then there was the week where we, a guild of about eight active players, decided to not just invade a planet, but to TAKE it, and the per capita efforts required for that were simply herculean. I make credits so I can have fun with them. Muahaha. To the OP: Also very good opening post for this thread. I think the last days on this forum have shown that a vast majority is PRO slot machines. This is my own perception, but if you check the various threads, you will notice an increase in positive opinions and you will also notice that the naysayers are usually the same few names in every thread. I'm hoping that even post-patch the jawa junk is at least kept reasonably competitive with crew skills--it would be a shame to have to go slogging through 16 characters to get my mats again. I get that before, once the numbers were crunched, the slots were objectively better, and there are valid reasons to adjust that, but I hope that they don't go so far in the other direction that you're more likely to win the mount than jawa junk lol. The slot machine is just so...liberating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfalll Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Lol, well the Op is sure to be angry now. All that writing for the slot machine to get nerfed anyway...... Sucks for you OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Coragin Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Lol, well the Op is sure to be angry now. All that writing for the slot machine to get nerfed anyway...... Sucks for you OP Why would I be angry? I am not a child whom loses his temper and flips the monopoly game over when things dont go my way. I guess if the situations were reversed you would be angry and flip the monopoly game over, so you think everyone acts as you do. Also I have 3 Legacy cargo holds full of Jawa Junk. More than enough to provide for my army of alts, guild and friends. Heck may even sell some gear to get credits. See, I have been MMO'ing since Ultima Online, Everquest, etc. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But. I dont let it effect my real life. It would seem you do. Psychology tells us that people accuse others of reacting they way they would because they can relate to that. Therefore you are expecting me to react the same way you would if the situation were reversed. Sorry to let you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavantDreadtech Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Very much the same with mine as well OP. Sure there are some against it but mainly about the cartel certificates. I personally don't have a problem with that myself but that concern is echoed by a few players who have posted in the many threads on this topic. Most however (and as said there are exceptions) just seem to complain about the loss of in-game credits they have or may lose. Even though my own talks with guild members agree with the finding of the OP's this in reality cannot be proven so giving possible percentages for either side is not helpful. In many ways doing so underlines any credence the post had. Sorry but as someone who in-fact agrees with you (with the possible exception on your percentages*) I think this needs to be said. * Our friends & guilds are not really fair representatives of the larger community. Edited January 21, 2015 by SavantDreadtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavantDreadtech Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) tl:dr blah blah blah my opinion is better than yours LOL, Really so you are saying you have never in all the time as a member of this community ever given your opinion on any subject? Or is it only you're opinion that matters? Because your quote can apply to every single thread! Edited January 21, 2015 by SavantDreadtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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