The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

[PadsterPwns]

Well, Vaylin has more raw potential but Arcann is much better developed and more experienced as a combatant. Partially because Valkorion held Vaylin back on purpose. That's what they tell us about them, at any rate.

 

Yeah, that was it. Thanks for posting that, I forgot why lol.

 

Arcann is still pretty strong though. He was able to deflect Valkorion's (not fully powered, I admit) lightning to the point where he could survive pretty well with just a few burns (even in the throne room, if you choose not to kneel he gets blasted by Valkorion only to get up moments later). If we assume Valkorion's power is equal to or greater than Vitiate's in the Revan novel, that's actually more than what Revan managed.

 

Oh yeah Arcann is strong but novel Revan wasn't prime Revan, plus Revan's best showing (facing the SOR strike team) is better than Arcann's showing of stalemating the Outlander/surviving Valkorion IMO. Honestly all I meant was that so far Vaylin seems to be a bigger threat IMO. As far as Valkorion goes I think he's getting overhyped because while his lightning is impressive Arcann could block it, whereas in comparison Yoda got overwhelmed by RotS Sidious' lighting which should settle the lightning debate, unless someone is trying to argue Arcann > RotS Yoda which is, not meaning to be rude, ridiculous.

[PadsterPwns]

Nope, not yet. Even though I have two lvl65 assassin ><

 

I'll post the link, just watching made me laugh .

 

[Beniboybling]

I'll post the link, just watching made me laugh .

 

It's the same as all the other cutscenes.

1. It wasn't the HoT, it was the Outlander.
   
2. He didn't outfight the Outlander, he cheapshotted him, if anything they stalemated before that.
   

1. Which can be the HoT

2. How did he cheapshot him exactly?

As far as Valkorion goes I think he's getting overhyped because while his lightning is impressive Arcann could block it, whereas in comparison Yoda got overwhelmed by RotS Sidious' lighting which should settle the lightning debate, unless someone is trying to argue Arcann > RotS Yoda which is, not meaning to be rude, ridiculous.

Arcann was able to block a weakened variant, and Sidious never overwhelmed Yoda with his lightning. Edited October 28, 2015 by Beniboybling

[cs_zoltan]

Valkorion stopped holding Vaylin back when the HoT defeated his voice on DK. That was roughly 6 years before KotFE.

[cs_zoltan]

1. Which can be the HoT

2. How did he cheapshot him exactly?

 

1. Or the Smuggler

2. The Outlander got Tiplee'd, hardly indicative of superior dueling or augmentation skills.

[Beniboybling]

1. Or the Smuggler

2. The Outlander got Tiplee'd, hardly indicative of superior dueling or augmentation skills.

1. What's your point?

2. Because Dooku's ability to pull Tiplee into his lightsaber doesn't clearly demonstate how vastly inferior she is to him? It's not a cheapshot, he wasn't caught off guard. Arcann is just powerful enough to dominate the Outlander with TK.

 

Certainly doesn't prove Arcann is a better duelist (which is irrelevant) but certainly a significantly stronger Force user.

[cs_zoltan]

1. What's your point?

2. Because Dooku's ability to pull Tiplee into his lightsaber doesn't clearly demonstate how vastly inferior she is to him? It's not a cheapshot, he wasn't caught off guard. Arcann is just powerful enough to dominate the Outlander with TK.

 

Certainly doesn't prove Arcann is a better duelist (which is irrelevant) but certainly a significantly stronger Force user.

 

1. Isn't it obvious? Eh, nevermind...

2.

Valkorion was fast enough to keep up with Arcann who was able to outfight the hero of Tython.

 

The Outlander contended with Arcann until the Tiplee-ing. So it's far-fetched to assume the above quoted is true.

 

Perfect counter example: Dooku vs Kenobi. Kenobi was roughly equal in Dooku as far as speed and lightsaber skills go yet he was BFR'd through the force.

[Beniboybling]

Ah I see, fair point. To be quite honest though all Valk did was hold up a barrier, nothing to do with speed.

[PadsterPwns]

It's the same as all the other cutscenes.

To me it just looked clunky, also at one point it looks like he's holding part of his lightsaber blade.

Arcann was able to block a weakened variant, and Sidious never overwhelmed Yoda with his lightning.

How do you know it was weakened? We are talking about the Force Storm that Valkorion uses in the Arcann vs Outlander fight right? If anything that was Valkorian's best feat. Also I didn't word that right, I meant to say would have overwhelmed, sorry. My main point was that I feel Valkorian's Force Storm feat is being overblown considering that Arcann could protect himself from it. As you pointed out before, it did kill anyone in a ship who flew by, which is impressive, but I think that RotS Sidious could replicate it and that RotS Yoda could block it. I simply fail to see how it puts him above RotS Sidious and RotS Yoda, the former being the most powerful Sith ever as of RotS and the latter being the most powerful Jedi ever apart from Luke Skywalker.

[Beniboybling]

1. Because prior to that Valkorion obliterated Arcann with a single blast.

2. Because Valkorion is channelling his power through an inferior vessel, we really can't expect the Outlander, who at best is the Hero of Tython, and at worst some non-Force sensitive, to be able to harness his full power.

 

I also believe it may be somewhere stated that Valkorion was weakened in general.

 

Anyway I'm not saying it puts Valkorion above Sidious, I'm merely correcting what I felt was a false interpretation.

[PadsterPwns]

Valkorion stopped holding Vaylin back when the HoT defeated his voice on DK. That was roughly 6 years before KotFE.

 

I think I need to do KotFE again, I feel I might have missed or ignored something by accident.

[cs_zoltan]

I think I need to do KotFE again, I feel I might have missed or ignored something by accident.

 

It's in her codex entry.

[Darkelefantos]

Valkorion stopped holding Vaylin back when the HoT defeated his voice on DK. That was roughly 6 years before KotFE.

Doesn't really matter as much though, as the game (or rather, Arcann) acknowledges she hasn't nearly reached her full potential yet.

I also believe it may be somewhere stated that Valkorion was weakened in general.

Arcann says after the fight that his father's power was growing weaker.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Darkelefantos

[cs_zoltan]

Doesn't really matter as much though, as the game (or rather, Arcann) acknowledges she hasn't nearly reached her full potential yet.

 

That doesn't matter either, she wouldn't be the first force user who didn't reach her prime in case she dies in the next few chapters.

[Darkelefantos]

That doesn't matter either, she wouldn't be the first force user who didn't reach her prime in case she dies in the next few chapters.

True. But for the sake of the story, she really shouldn't

Oh yeah Arcann is strong but novel Revan wasn't prime Revan, plus Revan's best showing (facing the SOR strike team) is better than Arcann's showing of stalemating the Outlander/surviving Valkorion IMO.

Depends. Surviving Valkorion's attack is a better feat than any of the members of the strike team (except PC in certain cases) have. Just ask poor Marr.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Darkelefantos

[PadsterPwns]

1. Because prior to that Valkorion obliterated Arcann with a single blast.

 

Wasn't that in Chapter 1? If so that was 5 years before his Force Storm that Arcann deflected, meaning that while it may have been that Valkorion had weakened, it could also be that Arcann had grown stronger.

 

2. Because Valkorion is channelling his power through an inferior vessel, we really can't expect the Outlander, who at best is the Hero of Tython, and at worst some non-Force sensitive, to be able to harness his full power.

 

I didn't think about that, conceded.

 

I also believe it may be somewhere stated that Valkorion was weakened in general.

 

Honestly I think his showings go against that considering his KotFE feats are the best we've seen from him.

 

Anyway I'm not saying it puts Valkorion above Sidious, I'm merely correcting what I felt was a false interpretation.

 

Ah, that's my bad, I misinterpreted what you were saying, sorry. Honestly I need to play through KotFE again, I've forgotten some of the basic stuff. I might not debate against you that much either, I look like a novice .

[PadsterPwns]

Depends. Surviving Valkorion's attack is a better feat than any of the members of the strike team (except PC in certain cases) have. Just ask poor Marr.

 

True, honestly they're likely on par, the only reason I might put SOR Revan above Arcann is due to Arcann seemingly stalemating with the HoT as the Outlander, whereas SOR Revan could have dealt with all 4 PC's + more or the default SOR Strike team. Also don't remind about of Marr.

[edkiech]

Is anyone actually against Luke and Sidious at the top?

 

I guess that's where we should start, if anyone has issue with them then they can say, and we can start.

 

For me the most powerful force user is Galen Marek, aka Starkiller from the Force Unleashed series.

I know it's not canon anymore, but for me all the games EU is still canon.

 

That guy is probably the most powerful force user ever, he stopped a goddamn star destroyer using the force.

[cs_zoltan]

True. But for the sake of the story, she really shouldn't

 

This is totally subjective (and off-topic, but meh) but I hope she does. She's a very poor villain. Like a mustache twirlingly bad from the silent movies. Villains were never Bioware's strongest suit, but now they managed to outdone themselves.

The only good thing about her is that she might reduce the ridiculous male overrepresentation in the most powerful threads.

[PadsterPwns]

This is totally subjective (and off-topic, but meh) but I hope she does. She's a very poor villain. Like a mustache twirlingly bad from the silent movies. Villains were never Bioware's strongest suit, but now they managed to outdone themselves.

The only good thing about her is that she might reduce the ridiculous male overrepresentation in the most powerful threads.

 

In a strange way that's why I want her to stay because her story potential is massive, she could go from evil to more grey. To be honest I didn't think Vitiate was a good character but I actually like Valkorion, not to the "you can stay in my head" level, but enough.

[PadsterPwns]

For me the most powerful force user is Galen Marek, aka Starkiller from the Force Unleashed series.

I know it's not canon anymore, but for me all the games EU is still canon.

 

That guy is probably the most powerful force user ever, he stopped a gosh darn star destroyer using the force.

 

As far as feats go, the Starkiller clone is actually better but even then he's Vader tier, so not within the top 5.

[Darkelefantos]

In a strange way that's why I want her to stay because her story potential is massive, she could go from evil to more grey. To be honest I didn't think Vitiate was a good character but I actually like Valkorion, not to the "you can stay in my head" level, but enough.

Exactly. Vaylin right now is a pretty poorly written character. She's actually just crazy Dark Jaesa as an antagonist. But there's lots of potential to make a good character out of her.

 

Not getting my hopes up. But it could happen.

[cs_zoltan]

In a strange way that's why I want her to stay because her story potential is massive, she could go from evil to more grey. To be honest I didn't think Vitiate was a good character but I actually like Valkorion, not to the "you can stay in my head" level, but enough.

 

Only if they fix her ridiculous dialog.

 

When she said "I killed three guards to make sure...and another three, because I hate odd numbers." I facepalmed myself so hard I almost broke my nose.

 

Children cartoons have dialog like that.

[PadsterPwns]

Exactly. Vaylin right now is a pretty poorly written character. She's actually just crazy Dark Jaesa as an antagonist. But there's lots of potential to make a good character out of her.

 

Not getting my hopes up. But it could happen.

 

Exactly, that's the best way to explain current Vaylin.

[tunewalker]

People need to look at the bigger picture, not just Alter. There is definitely a strong case to be made for Valkorion being above ROTS/ROTJ Sidious at this point,.

 

This part is impossible if we are still taking quotes from the novels as Canon. RotS Sidious was called "the most powerful dark sider of all time" that quote has not changed, none of his "control" feats I have seen him do are outside of Exar Kun's abilities... let alone Sidious's. The RotS novel makes it clear all Dark Siders prior to Sidious at that time were weaker then Sidious, as RotS takes place after this game that auto includes Vitiate AND Valkorian.