cs_zoltan Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Shaak Ti > Vitiate ngl. She survived being shot in the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Of course Valkorion > Plagueis. And I pitched the idea to Beni to begin a revamp of this list knowing that I wouldn't have much time on my hands right now. Also, Shaak Ti is a feeb in comparison to Valkorion. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Valkorion > Yoda too tbh. And yeh I'd rather get this list over with so we can start on one that includes spirits and entities, or the Jedi and Sith specific list... I personally have Vader > Starkiller, but we need Revan above them both IMO. And finally, Shaak survived a blaster bolt, Tutaminis'd lightsabers and ragdolled Starkiller with Kinetite just like Valkorion and Arcann, they're obviously the same tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I have plans to address the new characters introduced in KotFE once I've had an opportunity to play the expansion. There are also some other matters I'd like to address, which hopefully I'll be able to kick off some time this week. And Sel is right tbh, go home Aurbere, you're drunk. Edited October 26, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Weakened, post-prime Yoda = RotS Sidious. Valkorion would get pwnd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Weakened, post-prime Yoda = RotS Sidious. Valkorion would get pwnd. Too right, probably Yoda's best cumulative feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Weakened, post-prime Yoda = RotS Sidious. Valkorion would get pwnd. Valkorion > ROTS Sidious to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Valkorion > ROTS Sidious to be honest. I'm going to finish KotFE before I argue this, but so far (up to chapter 8) I haven't really seen anything from Valkorian that puts him above RotS Palpatine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) I'm going to finish KotFE before I argue this, but so far (up to chapter 8) I haven't really seen anything from Valkorian that puts him above RotS Palpatine. Once the discussion starts I'll compile a list of all Vitiate/Valkorion's feats. There's also a chapter 9 feat that is very impressive which I won't spoil for you. At least I believe it's chapter nine. Edited October 26, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Once the discussion starts I'll compile a list of all Vitiate/Valkorion's feats. There's also a chapter 9 feat that is very impressive which I won't spoil for you. At least I believe it's chapter nine. That'll be cool to see, so far the most impressive thing I've seen from him (I'm mainly a light side guy) was blocking so many saber hits with tutaminus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 That'll be cool to see, so far the most impressive thing I've seen from him (I'm mainly a light side guy) was blocking so many saber hits with tutaminus. Looked more like TK. A pre-prime Galen feat at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Once the discussion starts I'll compile a list of all Vitiate/Valkorion's feats. There's also a chapter 9 feat that is very impressive which I won't spoil for you. At least I believe it's chapter nine. Did you mean the lightning feat at the end of chapter 8 when You're fighting Arcaan and you give him control? I saw it bring down a few ships but while impressive, I wouldn't say that it's out of RotS Sidious' league. I didn't see the entire clip though so I may have missed something significant. Edited October 26, 2015 by PadsterPwns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Looked more like TK. A pre-prime Galen feat at best. I you're right Zoltan, it looks more like Force Barrier or TK than Tutaminus. Edited October 26, 2015 by PadsterPwns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) If you haven't seen chapter 8 spoiler alert: After watching this I think the lightning may be beyond what RotS Sidious can do (honestly I think Sidious could do it but it would take some effort to say the least) but is that just Valkorion's base power? Also, aren't Force spirits more powerful than they're physical incarnations (for example Exar Kun)? If so can we even say physical Valkorion can do that regularly? Edited October 26, 2015 by PadsterPwns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 If you haven't seen chapter 8 spoiler alert: After watching this I think the lightning may be beyond what RotS Sidious can do (honestly I think Sidious could do it but it would take some effort to say the least) but is that just Valkorion's base power? Also, aren't Force spirits more powerful than they're physical incarnations (for example Exar Kun)? If so can we even say physical Valkorion can do that regularly? Yes. He can do that physically. Arcann even mentions that his father is growing weaker after that scene. This means in his prime he was capable of even more than this. Note also his lightning attack in the throne room. It was a massive ball of lightning. Very potent. Very powerful. Arcann would know his father best so if he feels that wasn't his power's full power then we can assume that it isn't his father's full power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Yes. He can do that physically. Arcann even mentions that his father is growing weaker after that scene. This means in his prime he was capable of even more than this. Note also his lightning attack in the throne room. It was a massive ball of lightning. Very potent. Very powerful. Arcann would know his father best so if he feels that wasn't his power's full power then we can assume that it isn't his father's full power. I forgot about Arcann's statement after that. Honestly I feel it's too early to try and place Valkorion anywhere as his placement would be based on him as of half way through KotFE. As it stands I feel that Valkorion's Lightning either equals or supersedes RotS Sidious' Lightning but I don't think anything else we've seen Valkorion use supersedes or equals RotS Sidious or RotS Yoda as apart from his Lightning feats all we've seen him use was an impressive Force Wave (that I think RotS Sidious could replicate, as could Yoda minus the electrical charge) and either Force Barrier or TK to block Arcann's saber strikes (which again I feel both could replicate). This assessment includes his Vitiate feats too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Nothing Valkorian has done has been out side Vitiate's abilities.... let alone Sidious or Yoda's in RotS... how are you guys getting so hyped from these things.... from what I have been able to tell... Valkorian is weaker then Vitiate... and considering that the game straight out said that he was weaker then I think my assessment of what is going on is pretty accurate to intent. Edited October 28, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Nothing Valkorian has done has been out side Vitiate's abilities.... let alone Sidious or Yoda's in RotS... how are you guys getting so hyped from these things.... from what I have been able to tell... Valkorian is weaker then Vitiate... and considering that the game straight out said that he was weaker then I think my assessment of what is going on is pretty accurate to intent. Before one of the things that was overlooked was his ability to augment himself. We didn't see anything impressive when it came to his ability to physically augment himself. Remember when he faced the jedi knight? He dove into his lightsaber. Valkorion was fast enough to keep up with Arcann who was able to outfight the hero of Tython. Deflecting his blows casually with his hand. What else? It was argued before his lightning wasn't that impressive. We saw the hero of tython easily holding it back while advancing towards him. Again, Arcann, who is more than a match for HOT, was unable to deflect Valkorion's lightning. Valkorion's lightning shows up as a massive blast of electricity. Not that weak stream he used in the class story. Use his power during the lana incident? His mass abilities were mostly written off as ritual. He releases a wave that spares all your companions in the blast (showing incredible control) while annihilating all the enemies and damaging the ships. Then when fighting Arcann he, while in control of your body, releases a lightning storm that while having most of it blocked the RESIDUAL energy is destroying any ship that flies by while that was called "Weak" compared to what he used to be able to do. He's a lot stronger than we gave him credit for. Edited October 28, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Before one of the things that was overlooked was his ability to augment himself. We didn't see anything impressive when it came to his ability to physically augment himself. Remember when he faced the jedi knight? He dove into his lightsaber. Valkorion was fast enough to keep up with Arcann who was able to outfight the hero of Tython. Deflecting his blows casually with his hand. What else? It was argued before his lightning wasn't that impressive. We saw the hero of tython easily holding it back while advancing towards him. Again, Arcann, who is more than a match for HOT, was unable to deflect Valkorion's lightning. Valkorion's lightning shows up as a massive blast of electricity. Not that weak stream he used in the class story. Use his power during the lana incident? His mass abilities were mostly written off as ritual. He releases a wave that spares all your companions in the blast (showing incredible control) while annihilating all the enemies and damaging the ships. Then when fighting Arcann he, while in control of your body, releases a lightning storm that while having most of it blocked the RESIDUAL energy is destroying any ship that flies by while that was called "Weak" compared to what he used to be able to do. He's a lot stronger than we gave him credit for. Except then you think about the lightning against Revan who we all knew was stronger then the HoT by quite a fair margin, and is probably just as strong as if not stronger then Arcann, so no his lightning wasnt under estimated, what was over estimated was the Hero of Tython and the conditions of Vitiate when he faced him at the end of act 3 when it was just his voice not him himself, AND it was weakened by a ritual before hand. he is no stronger then I gave him credit for, all of those things are things that my interpretation of Vitiate was able to do.. as far as I know those are things Revan was capable of or even Galen Marek is capable of, I would warrant that with a Force Maelstrom Malgus could probably replicate the "weaker" portion that Arcann saw, but at his best we dont have any feats to really put him above RotS Sidious (since the fact that he is STILL called the most powerful sith in all of history as of RotS according to the RotS Novel nothing has changed there) it still doesnt neccisarily put him above plagueis, but then again I was calling him Above Plagues before this whole thing came out.... (Also remember that when being "reflected" Residuel energy does not mean weaker energy. the Energy is not being absorbed it is being redirected... according to physics, energy, like matter can not be created or destroyed just changed from one form to another, since it was not absorbed then logically the energy of the "residuel" energy was just as strong as the original... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy) Edited October 28, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) People need to look at the bigger picture, not just Alter. There is definitely a strong case to be made for Valkorion being above ROTS/ROTJ Sidious at this point, although it is unlikely he is superior to DE Sidious. And for the record Tunewalker, Valkorion confirms that he has gotten more powerful. I would also disagree that Arcann is inferior to Novel!Revan, whom I'd remind you Valk was able to one shot whereas Vitiate could not do so with Revan. But again, the bigger picture folks, Valkorion's greatest strengths lie in the field of Control. EDIT: The size of the Force Storm Valkorion unleashes in spirit form pretty strong indicates it's superiority to the far smaller storm of energy that he was capable of unleashing against Novel!Revan. Edited October 28, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm not arguing Valkorion isn't stronger than Vitiate (even though I mostly agree with what Tune said) just that RotS Sidious and RotS Yoda are still more powerful than Valkorion. Before one of the things that was overlooked was his ability to augment himself. We didn't see anything impressive when it came to his ability to physically augment himself. Remember when he faced the jedi knight? He dove into his lightsaber. Valkorion was fast enough to keep up with Arcann who was able to outfight the hero of Tython. Deflecting his blows casually with his hand. His performance against Arcann undoubtedly shows that some (including me) underestimated his ability in physical enhancement but I don't feel this feat is above RotS Sidious or RotS Yoda, if anything I feel they could replicate it with ease. What else? It was argued before his lightning wasn't that impressive. We saw the hero of tython easily holding it back while advancing towards him. Again, Arcann, who is more than a match for HOT, was unable to deflect Valkorion's lightning. Valkorion's lightning shows up as a massive blast of electricity. Not that weak stream he used in the class story. First of all let me say that that was a poor argument from me. Second of all while Arcann may not have been able to deflect it with his lightsaber, he did manage to deflect it with either a Force Barrier or using Force Deflection. While watching the cutscene again something I did notice is that, from my perspective at least, we only see the Force Storm go outside after Arcann blocks it, possibly meaning that it wouldn't have gone outside if Arcann hadn't have blocked it. I'm probably dead wrong about this but it's just something I noticed. Use his power during the lana incident? His mass abilities were mostly written off as ritual. He releases a wave that spares all your companions in the blast (showing incredible control) while annihilating all the enemies and damaging the ships. Then when fighting Arcann he, while in control of your body, releases a lightning storm that while having most of it blocked the RESIDUAL energy is destroying any ship that flies by while that was called "Weak" compared to what he used to be able to do. As I stated earlier, I feel that both RotS Sidious and RotS Yoda could replicate the Force Wave Valkorion released though I'm not too sure if they could replicate the control of it. Also, like Tune said, while the Force Storm was deflected it still carries the same amount of energy. He's a lot stronger than we gave him credit for. I agree but I also think we shouldn't try and place Valkorion above RotS Sidious or RotS Yoda for two reasons: 1) We would literally be arguing his superiority over both RotS Sidious and Yoda because of three feats. 2) RotS Sidious still has his "most powerful Sith of all time" G-canon accolade. Seriously though I'm not going to argue for or against Valkorion at the moment as I think that we need to see his other feats until we judge him considering that this is being debated only half way through KotFE where he'll likely perform more feats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Valkorion was fast enough to keep up with Arcann who was able to outfight the hero of Tython. It wasn't the HoT, it was the Outlander.He didn't outfight the Outlander, he cheapshotted him, if anything they stalemated before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) It wasn't the HoT, it was the Outlander.He didn't outfight the Outlander, he cheapshotted him, if anything they stalemated before that. Honestly, I think Arcann is a bit overhyped, if anything Vaylin seems to be stronger. Also this may be off-topic but have you seen that cutscene if Arcann is fighting a shadow/assassin? It looks hilarious. Edited October 28, 2015 by PadsterPwns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Honestly, I think Arcann is a bit overhyped, if anything Vaylin seems to be stronger. Also this may be off-topic but have you seen that cutscene if Arcann is fighting a shadow/assassin? It looks hilarious. Nope, not yet. Even though I have two lvl65 assassin >< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I think Arcann is a bit overhyped, if anything Vaylin seems to be stronger. Also this may be off-topic but have you seen that cutscene if Arcann is fighting a shadow/assassin? It looks hilarious. Well, Vaylin has more raw potential but Arcann is much better developed and more experienced as a combatant. Partially because Valkorion held Vaylin back on purpose. That's what they tell us about them, at any rate. Arcann is still pretty strong though. He was able to deflect Valkorion's (not fully powered, I admit) lightning to the point where he could survive pretty well with just a few burns (even in the throne room, if you choose not to kneel he gets blasted by Valkorion only to get up moments later). If we assume Valkorion's power is equal to or greater than Vitiate's in the Revan novel, that's actually more than what Revan managed. Edited October 28, 2015 by Darkelefantos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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