Relative difficulty of new HM FP's

[Icestar]

No they want the content to last longer. And this is working as you can see the casual bob players are going to struggle and so they should because HM is meant to be hard and even EC when it came out was a nice operation and finally they bought us ravagers and ToS to a good standard of content that required skill to complete even though some of the bugs can really annoy people but still the content this cycle is perfect and I hope all future content is as hard and fun.

 

It is a difference to have content that feels like a challenge and content that makes players give up.

[fushnchips]

It is a difference to have content that feels like a challenge and content that makes players give up.

 

I think you need to stick to the Tactical Flashpoints because HM seems to be to much of a challenge for you and you would be the type of player that could upset the other players who actually enjoy the HM challenge.

[Icestar]

I think you need to stick to the Tactical Flashpoints because HM seems to be to much of a challenge for you and you would be the type of player that could upset the other players who actually enjoy the HM challenge.

 

You assume wrong, I have played since pre-order and know this game real good.

 

All I ask is that Bioware take a good look at how many groupfinder teams that starts and how many that finishes, both HM FPs and OPS. They might be in for a wakeupcall.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Icestar

[BrianDavion]

You assume wrong, I have played since pre-order and know this game real good.

 

All I ask is that Bioware take a good look at how many groupfinder teams that starts and how many that finishes, both HM FPs and OPS. They might be in for a wakeupcall.

 

 

I assumed that after lost island and they abandoned the concept of tier 2 flashpoints they realized making their FPs too hard was a bad idea

[Loc_n_lol]

I assumed that after lost island and they abandoned the concept of tier 2 flashpoints they realized making their FPs too hard was a bad idea

 

Well yes, but then people started requesting harder content and longing for the good old days of LI and EC...

(especially after they started producing only tactical flashpoints...)

 

I don't see why we couldn't have a bit of both, though... But a giant difficulty spike between two tier of content isn't a good thing.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Loc_n_lol

[Levram]

Maybe bring back tier 1 / tier 2 HMs ? Tier 1 could have the same rewards as the current HM FPs but lowered difficulty, Tier 2 could bring better rewards (massassi piece on every boss, resurrected on last boss, a few ultimates at the end ?), and keep or even increase the difficulty ?

 

I expect nightmare mode to be a nightmare, hard mode to be quite hard, and story mode to be easy. The dread ops were nicely balanced this way. Right now it feels like hard mode is a nightmare, SM is kinda hard, and I don't wanna know what nightmare mode is going to be like...

 

This idea for gear rewards would not work. You cannot give out set-bonus pieces in Flashpoints for two reasons.

 

One, there is no lockout for Flashpoints. Players would just farm out their entire six-set in an evening, even if the drop at the end was random. I can clear HM Korriban in less than 20 minutes.

 

Two, The new SM operations would never be run by PUGs. Players will almost always take the absolute easiest path to their goals, so only having to round up three other people and go farming Flashpoints for a few hours would leave operation runs completely dead. There has to be meaningful rewards that only operations can provide. Those are set-bonus tokens, mounts and titles.

 

Also, as for why Dread Fortress and Dread Palace appeared to be better balanced when they were released was because there wasn't a gear reset at the same time. Players were already either appropriately geared or over-geared when DF and DP were released. With the 3.0 operations, no one could be over-geared, and only players who were clearing nightmare DF and DP bosses were appropriately geared. This results in everything appearing to be relatively harder.

 

Finally, there was still pleanty of wiping on SM Gate Commander Draxus for at least the first three months after it was released. We're in a similar state now. The overall average gear levels of player needs to improve, and then things will become easier.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Levram

[Tiffanitte]

Recommended gear requirement says 178. That means once finished with Rish and Yavin, no augs, a group with solid 178 blues should be able to complete each one. I would love to see a video proving this can be done with that gear. Otherwise, Bioware, put the recommended gear requirement of these to 186. A group with all 186 gear+ and aug'd, can do these. Anything less, it's a wipe fest and costly, and for 184 blues? Even 184 blues aren't high enough.

 

Place the actual gear requirements on the group finder info.... just saying. 186 item level min.

 

Stop lying to people

[PatT]

Op here. Some (Many) folks misunderstood what I said. And yes, i was talking about Manaan HM.

 

a) I don't think they should be easier. I think there needs to be something inbetween the stupidly easy content and the suddenly real content, difficulty wise.

 

b) I am in all 186's augmented. Actually I now have a 198 offhand, a couple of 192 token pieces, so yes, I am gearing up.

 

c) I don't like excluding friendly guild mates from content because they aren't hardcore or maybe esp. well versed on theri toons, and most importantly,

 

d) anyone who says they're not at all hard core, but then lists they are 3/5 on xyz and 2/5 on abc are more hardcore than they're willign to admit because casuals don't list their progression that way. Quit kidding yourselves.

 

I was the healer. We weren't having heal issues. But I can only really control my healing. The tank, who was new, was doing very well for themost part keeping the boss awa from the ads but there were problems with the dps coordination. I suppose we just need to work on it.

 

Still there should have been an intermediate step in difficulty. I don't like being able to run raids as flashpoints (but I do for decos). I've 3 and 4 manned ev (no big deal) and we regularly 8 man 16 man content. So we understand gear and itemization.

 

Thansk for the helpful comments. I was only tryint ot suggest to the devs that there should be another step on the ladder between what was, and what came. Solo mode on all of it is too easy. Heck the tacticals are too easy. Nothing else in the game prepares you for the Manaan HM. Especially that thrmping bang bang, bang bang. That's the most annoying thing int he darned game. Sheesh devs. You should be subjected to it for 24 hours and see what happens after that.

 

No comments for the rest of the hard cores who didnt' understand the OP and just went on a rant about how wrong I was abou stuff I never said or implied. We all know you're too cool for your clothes.

[Pagy]

Recommended gear requirement says 178. That means once finished with Rish and Yavin, no augs, a group with solid 178 blues should be able to complete each one. I would love to see a video proving this can be done with that gear. Otherwise, Bioware, put the recommended gear requirement of these to 186. A group with all 186 gear+ and aug'd, can do these. Anything less, it's a wipe fest and costly, and for 184 blues? Even 184 blues aren't high enough.

 

Place the actual gear requirements on the group finder info.... just saying. 186 item level min.

 

Stop lying to people

i did them in 180s, friends had 168s

we wiped twice between all bosses.

 

dont be afraid to admit youre bad at the game. without admitting that, youll never ever get better. the difference between you and me? i knew i was bad and put in the effort to learn my class...how to dps etc.

[DinoDo]

i did them in 180s, friends had 168s

we wiped twice between all bosses.

I don't believe you for a second on the bold part.

[Pagy]

I don't believe you for a second on the bold part.

they didnt have any basic comms since they only just came back to the game and pvpd to 60.

 

face it the hm fps are easy.

[annabethchase]

I think the biggest problem is many people are queing for them that don't have any previous HM experience. Maybe now that the 55 HM's are back in the rotation people will train a bit before taking on the toughest FP's.

[Genghistwelve]

Just a point of clarification:

Massassi (comms) 192 purple gear does in fact drop in the Lvl60HMFP's. This is currently also equivalent to the random drops of the SM Ops, the next higher intended end-game content to be played.

 

The 60HMFP Weekly likewise awards ultimate comms, allowing players to farm into purple 198 gear, currently the highest end-game gear level in the game (quality of 198 comms gear notwithstanding).

 

This is appropriately where things should be.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Genghistwelve

[Drockter]

Having read a few threads like this... I catuiously went into several lvl 60 HM FPs.

 

I don't see what the complaint is tbh. The only one I am having difficulty with was Tython... and really that was because of the bug on the first boss, which should be resolved now.

 

Couple unforgiving timers... but if you stick to your role, and do what needs done, you should be fine.

[annabethchase]

Just a point of clarification:

Massassi (comms) 192 purple gear does in fact drop in the Lvl60HMFP's. This is currently also equivalent to the random drops of the SM Ops, the next higher intended end-game content to be played.

 

The 60HMFP Weekly likewise awards ultimate comms, allowing players to farm into purple 198 gear, currently the highest end-game gear level in the game (quality of 198 comms gear notwithstanding).

 

This is appropriately where things should be.

 

Those ratings are simply misleading. The gear is not equal in value to 198 ops gear even ignoring set bonus. in 1.0 and 2.0 they were pretty equivalent other than set bonus.

[annabethchase]

Couple unforgiving timers... but if you stick to your role, and do what needs done, you should be fine.

 

Correction, if all 4 members stick to their role it's fine. But that was not the requirement. Even in 2.0 first week as long as you had 3 legit members you were fine.

[BrianDavion]

Having read a few threads like this... I catuiously went into several lvl 60 HM FPs.

 

I don't see what the complaint is tbh. The only one I am having difficulty with was Tython... and really that was because of the bug on the first boss, which should be resolved now.

 

Couple unforgiving timers... but if you stick to your role, and do what needs done, you should be fine.

 

for me the problems are a few fold. first is the healing is according to all the healers I talk to "somewhat intense" but I have a hunch BW'll realize they may have hit healers a bit hard with the nerf bat and adjust some thigns, also some of the fights kind of suck (the first boss on Manan for example. he wasn't HARD but it was kind of an irritatingly long fight)

Edited January 18, 2015 by BrianDavion

[annabethchase]

for me the problems are a few fold. first is the healing is according to all the healers I talk to "somewhat intense" but I have a hunch BW'll realize they may have hit healers a bit hard with the nerf bat and adjust some thigns, also some of the fights kind of suck (the first boss on Manan for example. he wasn't HARD but it was kind of an irritatingly long fight)

 

Agreed. I've done Manaan twice this weekend. While I'm putting up 4k dps and feeling powerful, the poor healers can barely keep the tanks above 30% health. Basically every talking point leading up to 3.0 seems to not have worked out as intended.

[BrianDavion]

Agreed. I've done Manaan twice this weekend. While I'm putting up 4k dps and feeling powerful, the poor healers can barely keep the tanks above 30% health. Basically every talking point leading up to 3.0 seems to not have worked out as intended.

 

yeah 3.0 feels pretty much like pretty blatent over correction

[WickerManSixOOne]

I have only played the new HM FPs with a Jedi Sage healer and the difficulty was a bit of a shock at first, we had wipes here and there but it wasn't impossible. I had to adjust a bit and focus but now I really appreciate the challenge. This included learning to use Rejuvenate every time before using Wandering Mend, which on a side note has completely changed my healing style and is the best new ability in 3.0. I'm in half 186 half 192 gear and I think over time as most players' gear improves these HM FPs will become more manageable. Right now though it's luck of the draw, sometimes everyone is geared and ready to go and sometimes you run into trouble with tanks that can't hold aggro or insufficient DPS to beat the Manaan final boss in time.

[Grayseven]

There is always an increased level of difficulty when new HM's come out and players are all near the recommended gear levels. The only surprise is that people are still surprised when this happens.

 

Yeah, healing is more intensive but again...new HM's. Tanks are in optimal gear, DPS doesn't roll through mobs or bosses...more work for healers. Again, not a surprise.

 

I think the biggest challenge has been some of the minor changes in the classes and if players aren't quite comfortable with those changes then you'll see difficulties.

 

Give it a few weeks or a month and it'll seem like faceroll all over again.

[Kissakias]

Lost island rewarded a *********** set bonus piece you couldnt get anywhere else. That was worth trying hard. The level 60 HMs just award random garbage gear and garbage comms.

 

they drop massassi parts m8, what do you want more?

bonus boss and final boss drop them

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I'm enjoying the HM FP's. If you feel they are too hard then please stick to the tactical ones or wait to PUG until ppl have them down, but please don't call for a nerf. There isn't enough difficult content in this game and I wish they would add NiM FP's.

[Larsenex]

The Number 1 problem with the new HM flashpoints other then the fact that there recycled content, is the fact that the rewards aren't in par with the difficulty ..it should work as in you use hm fp's to gear for raiding, it almost feels like you need to raid gear for flashpoints atm

 

 

I am in full elite gear as an Operative healer and the heal check is insane. I was in a PUG yesterday on Imp side Tython. After 7 wipes I left. The gear reward is dog poo as is the com reward. What is the point if the comm gear is complete poo for this amount of effort?

 

It is NOT fun at all. I am also thinking about migrating since the removal of a path for Ultimates. The 'fun' is why I play this game. Not fun? Move on till they figure out what they are doing.

 

Again to cue up with a PUG is NOT fun.

[NrDLeipe]

!st, people need to learn to play i know cliche blah blah but seriously kill order all over the place see most dps still spread out on diffrent targets instead of burning 1 at the time ( from weak to strong )

 

2nd, AVOID **** if theres a circle under your feet that usualy indicates to move out, but ye most player are tunneled visioned .

If ppl AVOID **** more the healing will become alot more relaxing aswell/

 

3rd The use of ccs, if a tank cant handle all the mobs cc 1 or 2 that hit the hardest, again relaxing for the healers.

 

4th Gear yourself, tons of ppl running in blue crap they found during there 12x xp bonus and they lack the knowledge aswell what to do in a fp cause they never seen 1. ( 12 x xp is for this reason alone so frking bad ! )

 

This is just some examples what ppl can do to improve but this is the logic in almost every mmo, you cant do **** if the player him/her self have no clue what they are doing.

 

Its new content Basicly a blank page, you dont overgear **** anymore and ppl cant carry you slackers true the content atm cause its NEW content that requires all of the above.

 

Dont scream nerf , look at yourselfs 1st what your doing wrong cause nerfing this stuff ( wich issnt rly that hard as ppl claim it is ) will not improve the game imo

Edited January 19, 2015 by NrDLeipe