Slot Machine: Just rolled 5000 chips

[Transcendent]

It is about crew skills being useless due to this machine.

 

They're not, you can still gather mats while doing dailies etc, and sell those on the GTN if you so wish. They cost literally nothing to collect as you wander around the game world.

 

I suppose that's broken as well, we shouldn't be able to collect free stuff as we do dailies, everything should be a credit sink and we must now pay to pick up mats / slicing nodes etc?

[lironBD]

 

I suppose that's broken as well, we shouldn't be able to collect free stuff as we do dailies, everything should be a credit sink and we must now pay to pick up mats / slicing nodes etc?

 

to do that you need to train the skill high enough in order to pick up from that node.

to get materials from missions like UWT or TH u need to send companions as there are no nodes for those things at all.

 

To get materials from the slot machine you need level 1 toon on SH with the machine and some credits to start rolling.

[DarthTHC]

They're not, you can still gather mats while doing dailies etc, and sell those on the GTN if you so wish. They cost literally nothing to collect as you wander around the game world.

 

I suppose that's broken as well, we shouldn't be able to collect free stuff as we do dailies, everything should be a credit sink and we must now pay to pick up mats / slicing nodes etc?

 

You cannot collect items obtained only from Mission Skills while out in the field. Before these slot machines, those items cost no less than 2,500 credits each, you had to wait over 30 minutes to see if you even got a few of what you wanted, and you were limited in the number of those 30+ minute missions you could run.

 

Now, those items cost literally nothing (because of the value of the other things the slots drop) and you can gather dozens with certainty in 15 minutes worth of clicking the slot machines.

 

That's... quite a change.

Edited January 17, 2015 by DarthTHC

[LordArtemis]

I really didn't get what you wanted to say there?

 

Fair enough. I should have been more clear with my point instead of attempting to be "cute" with it. Sorry about that.

 

I'm here speaking about the slot machine and it's effects on crew skills.

Regarding the other stuff you wrote I wrote already I'm against dumbing down the game and some of the things you added I'm really against those but all of those things are their own issues which is not discussed here.

We can take them as an example of dumbing down the game and making the more valued rewards into CM sotre and related stuff but the main issue discussed here is the Slot machine effect on crew skills.

so while taking the effort to quote me can you be so kind to answer my question with your opinion on the subject you quoted? or you don't have any?

 

I think I have specifically answered that more than once, in fact I answered your points of contention point for point. It was early in the thread so you may have missed it.

 

I am for "dumbing down the game" (I don't see it that way, but so be it). I think that is the most clear and concise answer I can give that illustrates my stance.

 

You and I are likely opposed in our vision as to how this game should move forward. IMO, your contentions in this respect are protectionistic and resistant to change. They are also toxic to the future of this game and it's standing in the market.

 

The crew mission system was broken as designed, and has always been so IMO. It was a system that punished you for effort at every turn...in terms of time, payout, failure. There was next to nothing that was rewarding about it, EXCEPT FOR THE MONEY YOU COULD MAKE from high end mats.

 

The solution is not to protect that draconian system, the solution, IMO, is to FIX it. As I have specifically suggested and more than once I might add.

 

High end mats need to be much more plentiful IMO. Crafting should be a fun leisurely activity that folks can engage in and make a bit of money, not an exercise in frustration and futility.

 

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Mariojediwookie]

LOL.. yeah.

 

Well.. it's a tried and true tactic.... when people disagree with you --> try hard to find something to argue about, spread jello all over the floors if need be until you can get someone to slip on it.

 

Yeah kind if like saying people will get bored eventually and then proceed to say you aquired 2k in mats.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Mariojediwookie

[lironBD]

Fair enough.

instead of slot machine giving anyone acess to any mats how about World nodes for all crew skills like UWT and TH as well?

how about those nodes drop purple mats as well?

 

that is for me much more acceptable as you still need to level up your crew skills in order to get access while with slot machine you get free pass at mats buffet.

[LordArtemis]

Fair enough.

instead of slot machine giving anyone acess to any mats how about World nodes for all crew skills like UWT and TH as well?

how about those nodes drop purple mats as well?

 

that is for me much more acceptable as you still need to level up your crew skills in order to get access while with slot machine you get free pass at mats buffet.

 

Its an idea...I actually considered the idea of changing all resource drops to junk, but couldnt make the concept work as I began to draw it up.

 

Then I thought about doing that with crew skills, but again, it caused a few problems I couldn't surmount.

 

For me personally? The jawa junk is not required. But I was not going to be selfish about it. I would personally rather retain the ability to sell high end mats at high prices....so i know that is the wrong stance to take because it is based on greed.

 

ANY time I want something based on greed alone I always avoid asking for it. My suggestion has to benefit the game, benefit casuals (mainly, as they are the likely bulk of players) and the game's appeal/standing in the market.

 

Restrictions on certain things, though they may benefit me directly, often hurt the game overall and must be removed or curtailed.

 

To be frank about it, this game's crafting sucks. I can't say it any plainer than that.

 

This is one move to reduce the suck. More needs to be done.

[Mariojediwookie]

They're not, you can still gather mats while doing dailies etc, and sell those on the GTN if you so wish. They cost literally nothing to collect as you wander around the game world.

 

I suppose that's broken as well, we shouldn't be able to collect free stuff as we do dailies, everything should be a credit sink and we must now pay to pick up mats / slicing nodes etc?

 

I have 8 stacks of green/blue jawa parts, that's after selling the rep items to get 65% of the cost for the coins covered and the multiple purple mats. Please stop trying to compare the crew skills with the slot machine. They DONT come close.

 

So you say it's comparable because I can get about 100 green mats while doing dallies and earning maybe 100k in payout for said dailies while at the same time you do the slot machine. Who do think comes out on top? Are you seriously making this arguement after some got 2k in purple mats alone in the past two days

[Transcendent]

to do that you need to train the skill high enough in order to pick up from that node.

to get materials from missions like UWT or TH u need to send companions as there are no nodes for those things at all.

 

Training it literally cost what, levelling from 400-450 and 450-500 (unlock cost). The rest you literally gather as you level and it's fairly organic in that nature. UWT / TH aside, the rest is literally free. That was the point I was trying to make, that you skipped over for the sake of continuing down the same tired song sheet.

 

Fair enough.

instead of slot machine giving anyone acess to any mats how about World nodes for all crew skills like UWT and TH as well?

how about those nodes drop purple mats as well?

 

that is for me much more acceptable as you still need to level up your crew skills in order to get access while with slot machine you get free pass at mats buffet.

 

So in essence, you have an issue with items being literally cheap on the slots and crew skills being useless. The answer is to make it all free? More easily obtainable?

 

I'd have zero issue with that.

 

Random nodes added in that give a chance for purple grade mats on planets specific to the level of materials (like other nodes) and include UWT / TH nodes. Keep the option in to send comps off to gather, increase that RNG slightly and crit rate.

 

Then nerf the RNG for Jawa junk on the machines to an arbitrary lower rate.

 

I'd have zero issue with any of it changing, as long as it increases the availability of purple crafting mats for everyone, regardless of how they choose to play the game.

[Jeweledleah]

I wonder if this is a conversation between people who want to sell the mats, vs people who want to use the mats. becasue mats being cheaper and more plentiful is a fantastic thing for those who use them. it means we can use them more, craft more, play more characters.

 

now, honestly? I'd rather they bring up mission skill UP to the level of the slot machine, not the other way around.

 

as a crafter and occasional minmaxer, I'd rather be able to craft more often than be faced with realization that I'm better off credit wise by selling off my mats, than I am by using them

 

also. a gentle reminder. these are entry level mats we are talking about. its not even isotope canisters from previous tier or even exonium.

 

entry level mats, crafting mission mats. they SHOULD be less rare.

[lironBD]

entry level mats, crafting mission mats. they SHOULD be less rare.

 

except exonium (blue) and other purple one which drop on ops u can get any other material in the game.

[ivanhedgehog]

Is no one else worried that credit sellers and crafty little players will start using the machines with bots?

like the guys running missions with bots to maximize their profits? naaah

[Jeweledleah]

except exonium (blue) and other purple one which drop on ops u can get any other material in the game.

 

it used to take forever, you ended up with oversurplace of blue materials while you were at it, rng for me at least was atrocious and it was literally more profitable to sell raw purple mats then use them to craft certain things. not to mention it could take a long LONG time thanks to rng to gather enough purples for a decent batch of crafting if you did decide to craft and whatever it was you were crafting, had a chance to crit into doubles.

 

but yes. you could do that before. and you still CAN! you just have more options in where to get those ENTRY level mats from. and they are not as rare anymore.

[lironBD]

That's because you need to use your head.

Utilize your 8 alts and run slicing missions,

Get mission discovery.

?????

Profit.

[DarthTHC]

That's because you need to use your head.

Utilize your 8 alts and run slicing missions,

Get mission discovery.

?????

Profit.

 

Artifact grade mission skill grade 11 crafting materials cost over 2,500 credits per unit using the missions obtained from Slicing. Plus you have to get your skill to 500 first. The missions take over an hour to run and at the end, you get 3 or 5 items. But, yeah, they're guaranteed.

 

Slot machines can give you 3 to 5 of the exact same items for free (when taking into account the value of other things that drop), with ZERO score in the skill, in under 3 minutes.

 

Because of this, Cartel Market has just completely replaced the need for mission skills. Treasure Hunting, Diplomacy, Investigation, and Underworld Trading, and even Slicing might as well be removed from the game now.

Edited January 17, 2015 by DarthTHC

[DarthTHC]

like the guys running missions with bots to maximize their profits? naaah

 

You actually can't do that, unless you can find a way to read the screen from your botting program. You have to read the screen to know where to click to take the right mission. You also have to read the screen to know if you have to re-shuffle the missions because the good ones aren't there, and to do that, you have to take missions, travel, and one at a time abandon then re-take missions.

 

Plus you have to figure out where to click to accept the mission returns, when they come back.

 

That would be a heck of a bot program (read: probably doesn't exist) that could do that.

 

Now these slots, THOSE are easy peasy to bot. No thinking, no screen reading, just mouse move, click, mouse move, click, wait, repeat.

[lironBD]

exactly my point.

The slot machine rendered crew skills obsolete now you only need a crafting skill and call it a day.

[LordArtemis]

You can't use the machine while engaged in any in game activity that requires you to be on the move, outside it's current location in your stronghold.

 

You also can't use it when you are logged out.

 

In that way crew skills still trump the machine.

 

However, the payout is still abysmal. It was NOT worth the investment BEFORE the machine was added, and it worth even less now. The returns should be increased dramatically IMO.

[lironBD]

LA,

true,

But otoh I can run 24\7 on 8 alts with 6 companions crew skills missions and I'll never make same amount of materials as with the slot machine, also, with crew skills each toon is bound for 2-3 gathering skills with the slot machine you get tokens for any material you want.

[DarthTHC]

You can't use the machine while engaged in any in game activity that requires you to be on the move, outside it's current location in your stronghold.

 

You also can't use it when you are logged out.

 

In that way crew skills still trump the machine.

 

However, the payout is still abysmal. It was NOT worth the investment BEFORE the machine was added, and it worth even less now. The returns should be increased dramatically IMO.

 

I don't need to use it when I'm logged out. I can count on the credit farmers to do that for me, then I can go to the GTN and buy all the mats I want for a pittance.

 

Crew skills don't come close to trumping the machine, because the cost to acquire goods via missions is significantly higher than the cost to acquire goods via the machines. It's the same reason I stopped running gathering missions. I can buy the materials on GTN less expensively than running the missions, plus the missions take time. Why do all that when I can get what I want, on demand, for less?

[Jeweledleah]

That's because you need to use your head.

Utilize your 8 alts and run slicing missions,

Get mission discovery.

?????

Profit.

 

been there, done that. after several days of NOTHING but hoping alts, only to come back no no crits, or better yet - failed missions, and that's with using companions that supposed to be critting, after maxing their affection out with gifts I got from all the mission skill leveling (and pack opening)

 

this is not playing the game to me. this is doing chores for virtual items.

 

the fact that purple crit mats were so rare compared to blue mats is a terrible TERIRBLE design. the fact that it was pretty damn common to see blue mats listed on GTN UNDER vendor price, due to overabundance and overpricing and the fact that they are barely useful in these quantities? is NOT good design.

 

if I wanted to play spreadsheets in space, I would have subscribed to EVE. in TOR, I actualy let to get out in a world, quest, role play, run ops, play around with outfits and decorations, go out exploring or achievemnt hunting, etc.

 

but if all my time is spent alt hopping to click couple of buttons while staring at loading screens and then more loading screens as I shuffle between strongholds trying to get the right missions to show up - what the hell am I paying subscription for?

 

and its virtually mindless. but with very low return when you look at it from a perspective of using for yourself, rather then selling for profit.

 

I'm so damn glad they added lvl 11 mats to jawa vendors. i'm so damn ecstatic that I now have 4 different ways of getting purple mats instead of just a single crapshoot time consuming method. pardon - 5, now that materials are actualy going to be affordable.

 

but I do wish that they improve mission skills instead of taking something good and making it bad.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Draqsko]

Artifact grade mission skill grade 11 crafting materials cost over 2,500 credits per unit using the missions obtained from Slicing. Plus you have to get your skill to 500 first. The missions take over an hour to run and at the end, you get 3 or 5 items. But, yeah, they're guaranteed.

 

Slot machines can give you 3 to 5 of the exact same items for free (when taking into account the value of other things that drop), with ZERO score in the skill, in under 3 minutes.

 

Because of this, Cartel Market has just completely replaced the need for mission skills. Treasure Hunting, Diplomacy, Investigation, and Underworld Trading, and even Slicing might as well be removed from the game now.

 

Wait a minute, sliced mission discoveries cost 5830 credits to run. If you slice your own, it costs nothing to get them since the lockboxes actually make you a little money in return, PLUS the sliced missions. My slicing alt went from 30k after training crew skills to 500, and now has 1.1 million, doing NOTHING but running lockbox missions for TH and UT mats, never mind the slicing mats I get for free basically with the mission discoveries.

 

The sliced missions return 3 or 5 mats, so that's 1162-1943. znihilist already broke down what the cost for jawa scrap is: 1812.5 per jawa scrap, regardless of green, blue, or purple. Since the issue of everyone's concern is the purple, as you can see sliced missions returned 3 mats fall slightly behind the slot machine, while those returning 5 mats are heavily favored. Also since biochem purples take 2 jawa junk each mat, sliced missions are doubly favored, and since Adaptive Circuitry take 3 jawa junk each, sliced missions are favored three-fold. And that's only if they return 3 mats per sliced mission.

[TheGreatFrosty]

been there, done that. after several days of NOTHING but hoping alts, only to come back no no crits, or better yet - failed missions, and that's with using companions that supposed to be critting, after maxing their affection out with gifts I got from all the mission skill leveling (and pack opening)

 

this is not playing the game to me. this is doing chores for virtual items.

 

the fact that purple crit mats were so rare compared to blue mats is a terrible TERIRBLE design. the fact that it was pretty damn common to see blue mats listed on GTN UNDER vendor price, due to overabundance and overpricing and the fact that they are barely useful in these quantities? is NOT good design.

 

if I wanted to play spreadsheets in space, I would have subscribed to EVE. in TOR, I actualy let to get out in a world, quest, role play, run ops, play around with outfits and decorations, go out exploring or achievemnt hunting, etc.

 

but if all my time is spent alt hopping to click couple of buttons while staring at loading screens and then more loading screens as I shuffle between strongholds trying to get the right missions to show up - what the hell am I paying subscription for?

 

and its virtually mindless. but with very low return when you look at it from a perspective of using for yourself, rather then selling for profit.

 

I'm so damn glad they added lvl 11 mats to jawa vendors. i'm so damn ecstatic that I now have 4 different ways of getting purple mats instead of just a single crapshoot time consuming method. pardon - 5, now that materials are actualy going to be affordable.

 

but I do wish that they improve mission skills instead of taking something good and making it bad.

 

RNG. I've done that for three years. Good weeks and bad weeks.

[DarthTHC]

Wait a minute, sliced mission discoveries cost 5830 credits to run. If you slice your own, it costs nothing to get them since the lockboxes actually make you a little money in return, PLUS the sliced missions. My slicing alt went from 30k after training crew skills to 500, and now has 1.1 million, doing NOTHING but running lockbox missions for TH and UT mats, never mind the slicing mats I get for free basically with the mission discoveries.

 

The sliced missions return 3 or 5 mats, so that's 1162-1943. znihilist already broke down what the cost for jawa scrap is: 1812.5 per jawa scrap, regardless of green, blue, or purple. Since the issue of everyone's concern is the purple, as you can see sliced missions returned 3 mats fall slightly behind the slot machine, while those returning 5 mats are heavily favored. Also since biochem purples take 2 jawa junk each mat, sliced missions are doubly favored, and since Adaptive Circuitry take 3 jawa junk each, sliced missions are favored three-fold. And that's only if they return 3 mats per sliced mission.

 

The breakdown for Jawa Scrap from the slot machine that was done is WRONG.

 

Based on what I'm seeing, just the vendor value of the rep items reduces your cost of tokens by 60%. Once you put the CM certificates on top of that, the tokens actually become more than paid for.

 

Based on my runs so far, before ever trading in one Jawa Junk for a material, my profit margin on the slots is over 100%.

 

So, yeah, Jawa Junk is effectively free and immediate with the slots. Credit sellers could macro these things all day, sell CM Certificate personnel for very, very cheap - under 10k, and sell Jawa Junk materials for 500 credits per unit and have plenty of credits to sell to their buyers.

 

It doesn't matter that the slicing part costs 3 JJ and Midlithe costs 1. 1 x 0 and 3 x 0 equal the same thing, Infinite profit.

 

Normally I don't mess with broken stuff. You know, stuff that the randomizer or drop rate is off so you can get a bit of an advantage? But this is SO BROKEN that I'm doing nothing but clicking slot machines until BioWare fixes it. And make no mistake: They will fix this as soon as sales of this pack start to falter.

Edited January 18, 2015 by DarthTHC

[dscount]

dscount,

Thank you for your post.

do you have pictures to post same as I did so we can bask in this details or we only have your word for it.

 

Wait.. I CONFIRM YOUR details and you want PROOF via pix? Really.. isn't that kind of STUPID for someone that confirmed your data was not complete fiction? Whatever...

 

Usually I would tell you to pack sand and point out anyone can "Doctor" a picture of stacks of things for a picture (Obtains from any source). BUT for some strange reason I screen shot this one, cut/paste and posted online. I feel a tad insulted by this lazy approach and still disagree with your doom/gloom theory. No I'm not going to do more "TESTS" to feed your ego, but you can do your own homework now and read the rest of the forums. Many folks have posted 1 stack test results. Have fun!

 

Or.. how about you view REDDIT and the datamined percentages?

My "Screen Shot" http://i.imgur.com/VNXmiUm.jpg

 

Personally.. I think you have issues wanting to beat a dead horse. Have fun... I'll do my best NOT to support your posts online in the future...