Slot Machine: Just rolled 5000 chips

[Mariojediwookie]

It's interesting to me that nobody started whining about that until after the dust settled from the money whining, then, to me.

 

I personally still enjoy Archaeology, Slicing and Gathering for Flashpoints....

 

What? People have been complaint about the drops from the crew missions. I can tell you for a fact just last week I stated treasure hunting lockbox missions are worthless. Let's not forget all the purple consumable missions from slicing that were horrible before and now no one I. There right mind would run anything. Seriously who is going to waste money that gives you less mats at a much higher cost and 10 times the amount of investment in time.

[Djiini]

What? People have been complaint about the drops from the crew missions. I can tell you for a fact just last week I stated treasure hunting lockbox missions are worthless. Let's not forget all the purple consumable missions from slicing that were horrible before and now no one I. There right mind would run anything. Seriously who is going to waste money that gives you less mats at a much higher cost and 10 times the amount of investment in time.

 

When the slot machines came out, all ANYONE whined about was this screwing over market prices for materials, with the OCCASIONAL whining about how easy it is to get Rep off them.

[lironBD]

If that is the case, why not simply improve crew mission returns IronBD as I have suggested?

 

Really? So you can and will play those slots 7/24, ignoring everything else in the game?

 

They give you another route to obtain materials, if you wish. No more, no less.

 

Most players that want junk for mats -------> will play everything open to them to gain materials. Player choice = player gets to decide which route(s) they want to use for materials.

 

You know what the self-limiting variables are here??

 

1) time and boredom limits... and MMO players, broadly speaking, get bored really easy.

2) Junk supply.. it is what it is.. and once the dumping spike from pre-3.0 hoarding flushes from the server economies, we will be able to see more clearly what slots contribute and what they don't.

3) the best players, who need/want materials, will use multiple methods available to them, depending on their mood and what they actually want to spend they game time on.

 

I'll quote a previous post I made which you might have missed:

 

___________

the issue here is until now you had to level up do you class story and get companions.

then pick up crew skills from trainer and either pay loads of cash running missions (which was tied to your level) or actually travel around the world pick up mats from nodes.

then you had to use your mats to craft items in order to level up your crafting skill.

then when you had enough level of your skill you paid for schem or Re'd one then you had to craft it over and over until u managed to learn artifact version which in the process required special mission mats.

^

this entire process took weeks upon weeks.

 

Now people can just take their fresh level 10 toon with HK\Treek\1st companion and port to their stronghold or friend's stronghold use the machine and makes some money pretty quickly while hoarding the mats tokens to craft whatever they want or just trade the mats with other people to craft for them.

This process makes the entire resource harvesting and mission running of crew skills null and void because I can harvest and run mission on 6 companions X max character slots all day long and still in 2-3 hours of single character rolling on slot machine I'll get much more mats.

and bonus part it's token based so I only need to level crafting skill I don't need any crew harvest or mission skill as I can pick up which ever mats I want.

_______________________________

 

So it's not about options. and no need to run the slot machine all day long...

I need purple mats? np.. roll some tokens for 20 minutes get full stack of purple tokens.

previously?

purchase from someone who worked for it or bother yourself to level up and train proper skills to gain access to the option of getting mats yourself.

would you call it options if people could have get pvp tokens from slot machines? or nightmare ops titles?

[Mariojediwookie]

Yes, for blues and purples this is the only "hands on" way to get them. Before GTN purchase or missions was the only way. Now you have a third way.

 

It still takes time. Folks will still not want to spend the time and purchase mats instead. You can easily burn through a third of a stack of purples on one crafting session....and it would likely take hours to get the proper amount of purples so folks could craft without ever having a need to purchase them or run crew missions.

 

And that for most is just not feasible IMO. Actually laziness is a good thing here....most folks will be lazy enough to still buy the mats.

 

Also remember that for green mats resource gathering is still the best method to maximize amount and return, and crew missions can be run while you are logged out or engaged in other activities....two places the machine falls short.

 

The guy just admitted he made 2k mats in 2-3 days. Your "boredom" argument........lol. This is silly to even argue. There are bots. or do what I did yesterday and watch tv with your finger on the button. You guys are getting desperate, boredom lol.

[Andryah]

Yes, for blues and purples this is the only "hands on" way to get them. Before GTN purchase or missions was the only way. Now you have a third way.

 

It still takes time. Folks will still not want to spend the time and purchase mats instead. You can easily burn through a third of a stack of purples on one crafting session....and it would likely take hours to get the proper amount of purples so folks could craft without ever having a need to purchase them or run crew missions.

 

And that for most is just not feasible IMO. Actually laziness is a good thing here....most folks will be lazy enough to still buy the mats.

 

Also remember that for green mats resource gathering is still the best method to maximize amount and return, and crew missions can be run while you are logged out or engaged in other activities....two places the machine falls short.

 

Exactly.

 

Once we get past all the spastic knee-jerking in the forum, I think more players will come to realize this.

[lironBD]

Exactly.

 

Once we get past all the spastic knee-jerking in the forum, I think more players will come to realize this.

 

It's nice of you to ignore my post over and over cause you can't handle it so I'll have to wait until you acknowledge you read it to take your next posts seriously.

[Andryah]

It's nice of you to ignore my post over and over cause you can't handle it so I'll have to wait until you acknowledge you read it to take your next posts seriously.

 

Just because I do not comment in response to every taunting and combative post you put up, does not mean I do not read them.

 

You seem to simply want to argue and dig-in with your personal agenda about slots. Sorry, people are going to disagree with you and see things differently then you.

 

Two weeks from now.. nobody will be talking abut the slots.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Mariojediwookie]

When the slot machines came out, all ANYONE whined about was this screwing over market prices for materials, with the OCCASIONAL whining about how easy it is to get Rep off them.

 

Louder does not equate to everyone. I said since Wed the moment I got a slot machine I don't have run any missions which is upsetting. It's dumbed down crafting even more to the point you just need a slot machine for all gathering. Congrats to all those who thought it was too difficult but I think those of us who enjoyed how it was have the right to complain about making my 8 toons with max affection worthless for crafting

[OddballEasyEight]

would you call it options if people could have get pvp tokens from slot machines? or nightmare ops titles?

 

Comparing sending out companions on missions to playing PvP or doing Ops.

 

That's just priceless!

[Andryah]

Comparing sending out companions on missions to playing PvP or doing Ops.

 

That's just priceless!

 

LOL.. yeah.

 

Well.. it's a tried and true tactic.... when people disagree with you --> try hard to find something to argue about, spread jello all over the floors if need be until you can get someone to slip on it.

[lironBD]

Comparing sending out companions on missions to playing PvP or doing Ops.

 

That's just priceless!

 

It's part of the game take it or leave it.

Same as person gears his character for NiM ops to get that special title because that is what he likes to do and same things as person learns how to properly PVP and in the process he earns pvp tokens to get unique pvp oriented gear same for crafting.

 

You might consider crew skills as some lesser part of mind numbing stupidness but...

1. you have to finish class story to get more companions so you'll have more to use.

2. For treek \ HK you either pay lots of money you need to earn or you do long long quest which require dedication (for hk at least).

3. once you got all those companions you actually need to get higher level to use more of them at the same time. To use max of 6 companions you need to level up to 56.

4. Then to max your chances you need to pick the right crw skills for your companions, then get their affection to 10k in order to maximize even further their results.

5. if we talk about crafting add to this 3 perks for each character to add meager 3% crit chance which costs small fortune.

 

So? we got multiple crew skills, we got 6 iirc crafting skills and imagine the minimum number of 6 toons to get acess to all of those crafting and crew skills.

 

Now with new slot machine the entire part of materials and mission oriented materials via crew missions is useless because even if u 24\7 missions on max number of toons per server on 6 companions with best odds you'll never make so many mats like slot machine eaerns you in few hours using 1 toon, of any level, without any crew skills!

worst part it's not materials rewarded alone it's a token which allows you to cherry pick any material you want from the entire list available in the game (except level 60 ops ones thank god).

 

So for me as someone which spent months to level up, gain affection with companions and plan it all in advance in order to get to this point, the existence of the slot machine in it's current way makes all my effort and way of playing null and void... there is no point.. it's useless... get 2 stacks of chips and pick whichever mats you need.. why to bother?

 

This is why I compared this to PVP tokens which you obviously earns only through pvp activities or NiM ops titles which are achievable only through many months of gearing and planning and dedication.

For me this machine ruins major part of the game which existed since launch.

 

You could get this tokens via RNG cartel packs in small numbers, true. But how many packs did you open or could open a day?

Conquest? once a week. nothing more. and those who play the conquest mostly will use the tokens for conquest related activities in first place.

The new addition of acquiring this Materials tokens is not limited by any factor but the patience once have for standing idle right clicking on shiny box over and over and over, that is due to cheap price of chips, money returned from venduring rep items, high drop rates, money made from gtn activities on extra not used drops.

[Metthew]

It's part of the game take it or leave it.

Looks like you can use your own advice, instead of writing paragraphs on paragraphs for what you cannot just take or leave.

 

Just consistency checking.

[lironBD]

Looks like you can use your own advice, instead of writing paragraphs on paragraphs for what you cannot just take or leave.

 

Just consistency checking.

 

So what you are implying is it's ok to add new aspect to the game (gambling machine in SH) while in the process ruining entire different part of the game which people invested in many days?

[grombrinda]

Really? So you can and will play those slots 7/24, ignoring everything else in the game?

 

They give you another route to obtain materials, if you wish. No more, no less.

 

Most players that want junk for mats -------> will play everything open to them to gain materials. Player choice = player gets to decide which route(s) they want to use for materials.

 

You know what the self-limiting variables are here??

 

1) time and boredom limits... and MMO players, broadly speaking, get bored really easy.

2) Junk supply.. it is what it is.. and once the dumping spike from pre-3.0 hoarding flushes from the server economies, we will be able to see more clearly what slots contribute and what they don't.

3) the best players, who need/want materials, will use multiple methods available to them, depending on their mood and what they actually want to spend they game time on.

 

haha please read number one please....

 

Only thing slot machines do is even out the game in terms of obtainable mats.....prices will stabilize so in the long run you wont be making million off from slot machines like right now.......

[comestbest]

It's part of the game take it or leave it.

Same as person gears his character for NiM ops to get that special title because that is what he likes to do and same things as person learns how to properly PVP and in the process he earns pvp tokens to get unique pvp oriented gear same for crafting.

 

You might consider crew skills as some lesser part of mind numbing stupidness but...

1. you have to finish class story to get more companions so you'll have more to use.

2. For treek \ HK you either pay lots of money you need to earn or you do long long quest which require dedication (for hk at least).

3. once you got all those companions you actually need to get higher level to use more of them at the same time. To use max of 6 companions you need to level up to 56.

4. Then to max your chances you need to pick the right crw skills for your companions, then get their affection to 10k in order to maximize even further their results.

5. if we talk about crafting add to this 3 perks for each character to add meager 3% crit chance which costs small fortune.

 

So? we got multiple crew skills, we got 6 iirc crafting skills and imagine the minimum number of 6 toons to get acess to all of those crafting and crew skills.

 

Now with new slot machine the entire part of materials and mission oriented materials via crew missions is useless because even if u 24\7 missions on max number of toons per server on 6 companions with best odds you'll never make so many mats like slot machine eaerns you in few hours using 1 toon, of any level, without any crew skills!

worst part it's not materials rewarded alone it's a token which allows you to cherry pick any material you want from the entire list available in the game (except level 60 ops ones thank god).

 

So for me as someone which spent months to level up, gain affection with companions and plan it all in advance in order to get to this point, the existence of the slot machine in it's current way makes all my effort and way of playing null and void... there is no point.. it's useless... get 2 stacks of chips and pick whichever mats you need.. why to bother?

 

This is why I compared this to PVP tokens which you obviously earns only through pvp activities or NiM ops titles which are achievable only through many months of gearing and planning and dedication.

For me this machine ruins major part of the game which existed since launch.

 

You could get this tokens via RNG cartel packs in small numbers, true. But how many packs did you open or could open a day?

Conquest? once a week. nothing more. and those who play the conquest mostly will use the tokens for conquest related activities in first place.

The new addition of acquiring this Materials tokens is not limited by any factor but the patience once have for standing idle right clicking on shiny box over and over and over, that is due to cheap price of chips, money returned from venduring rep items, high drop rates, money made from gtn activities on extra not used drops.

 

 

thanks for fighting for this. crafting and gathering is an important part of the game. if they leave this jawa junk on these slot machines then crafting and gathering will be pointless.

Edited January 17, 2015 by comestbest

[dscount]

You must feel embarrassed a lot. His findings reflect many players, including my own, with approximately 65-70% of the revenue being made back directly through selling rep items, and a similar number of purple items. I can also take screenshots, but you've got your tinfoil hat on (or there''s a simpler reason as to why you're committed to being wrong).

 

They've already said they plan to review the drop rates.

 

Rep ALONE will not break even, but you can turn a small profit by selling mats or crafting MK-10 components with them and selling. Again.. these machines are CREDIT SINKS.. people are missing that point. Materials you can farm all day long on Yavin/Rishi and turn around to make easy money with. PURPLE Mats.. yes you will notice these prices have started to come WAY down in price (Great!) that means more people can craft gear/stim/adreno without going broke. A MAT sink as those consumables will be used.

 

The MISSIONS.. I hear you people.. I spent the first few weeks farming the CRAP outta them with the crappy Midlithe drop ratio.. BUT.. I still managed to get enough to put purple items on all 22 of my toons. (Left side +186 Hilt/Barrels). Wish I had this slot machine BEFORE that and Jawa vendors selling mats. LOL

 

My sample of 1,000 chips (-$500k) netted a more realistic RNG:

• 123 Green Jawa, 122 Blue Jawa, 123 Purple Jawa
  
• 118 Green Rep, 102 Blue Rep, 62 Purple Rep
  
• 26 Cartel Certificates
  
• ~3 hours time elapsed (Stop/started)
  

 

Based on THAT.. simple math or rough "RATIO'S" for drop rate. (Leaving out Chip reward)

• 12% Chance - Green Jawa
  
• 12% Chance - Blue Jawa
  
• 12% Chance - Purple Jawa
  
• 12% Chance - Green Rep
  
• 10% Chance - Blue Rep
  
• 6% Chance - Purple Rep
  
• 2.5% Chance - Cartel Certificate (My 1k sample shows 2.6% and 5k shows 2.58%).
  

This accounts for roughly 66.5% - the rest is MISS or Chip reward or "Free Spin".

 

So if I was to "MATH OUT" the 5,000 sample (5x mine) I get about the SAME ratios:

• 610 Green Jawa, 610 Blue Jawa, 610 Purple Jawa (1,897 vs 1,830 - pretty darn close RNG)
  
• 590 Green Rep, 510 Blue Rep, 310 Purple Rep (1,459 vs 1,410 - again 5k was tad higher RNG)
  
• 130 Cartel Certificates (124 vs 130 - I came out ahead on this RNG for 1k chips)
  

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7957105&postcount=61

 

Bottom Line: I don't think Bioware should change ANYTHING... market will balance itself out here. Only those that horded purple crafting mats or made millions from selling them are going to be impacted. (Yes I'm a crafter and made good money the first 3 weeks of 3.0 by busting my butt to farm missions and resource nodes)

Edited January 17, 2015 by dscount

[Metthew]

So what you are implying is it's ok to add new aspect to the game (gambling machine in SH) while in the process ruining entire different part of the game which people invested in many days?

It is not necessarily ruined, if some fine tuning with the prices and drop rates for both crew skills and slot machines are made. I have argued against the doom and gloom many posts have been arguing, however.

 

Still, I was just saying, "take it or leave it" is a dangerous thing to say, and can be turned just against you. One could say, this is the new trade meta, take it or leave it - and your arguments would suddenly become emotion based.

[Metthew]

...(experimental drop rates)...

Miner already announced the drop rates. %10 for each scrap, %25 of losing, %20 of another chip, %10-%8%5 for reputation items, and %2 for certs. The results you have are consistent with the Poisson approximated drop mean/variances you'll get. Edited January 17, 2015 by Metthew

[dscount]

Miner already announced the drop rates. %10 for each scrap, %25 of losing, %20 of another chip, %10-%8%5 for reputation items, and %2 for certs.

 

Well ah crap.. Glad to see it's more "official" then.. Pretty darn close I'd have to say.

[Metthew]

Well ah crap.. Glad to see it's more "official" then.. Pretty darn close I'd have to say.

As I just noted in the edit, your rates are consistent. However, you need more trials to clamp down on those uncertainties. :')

[Andryah]

Bottom Line: I don't think Bioware should change ANYTHING... market will balance itself out here. Only those that horded purple crafting mats or made millions from selling them are going to be impacted. (Yes I'm a crafter and made good money the first 3 weeks of 3.0 by busting my butt to farm missions and resource nodes)

 

I think Bioware will dashboard and observe the economy in the context of Junk turn-ins at the vendors for a few weeks, then review the results to determine if player concerns expressed in the forum are real or conflated. If real, they would make some adjustments. If conflated.... they will state that they looked at drop rates an that they are fine and no changes are being made.

 

Time will tell. The forum attention span for any "alleged tragedy of design" is about 2 weeks. Part of reviewing and adjusting game content is to NOT listened and react to forum tragedy performances, but rather to actually monitor and review the data they gather from the actual live game servers.

 

The most humorous part of this thread is the author thinking that they have influence (by mandate, or tantrum) over what Bioware does or does not do.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Andryah

[Draqsko]

So what you are implying is it's ok to add new aspect to the game (gambling machine in SH) while in the process ruining entire different part of the game which people invested in many days?

 

It's cheaper to run Rich or Slicing mission discoveries than to pay the slot machine for Adaptive Circuitry. Here's how:

 

Run only Rich Slicing Mats and as many lockbox missions as you can. Rinse and repeat, run the slicing mission discoveries you get. I found myself basically getting FREE Adaptive Circuitry, so any price is 100% profit. Anyone against the slot machine is basically trying to protect their credit grinding machine that's slicing. And it's not that you aren't making money at the new prices, it's that you're not gouging and making as much as you used to.

 

You still need to run crew missions to maintain the correct ratio of blue to purple mats for crafting if you actually craft. So they didn't ruin crew missions, they are still needed since you get equal amounts of mats of green, blue, and purple grade from the slot machine, but the schematics don't use equal amounts. You use vastly more green and blue with some white mats in addition to the purple mats. At 1800 credits each for blue mats, crew missions are heavily favored here, same with green mats. In this case, the ability to choose exactly which mats are generated comes at a high price.

 

Sorry but the actual people who do crafting in my guild, absolutely love the fact we have a slot machine in the guild ship workroom. Now they can craft on demand without having to stockpile mats or buy them off the GTN at stupidly inflated prices.

[lironBD]

dscount,

Thank you for your post.

do you have pictures to post same as I did so we can bask in this details or we only have your word for it.

 

_____________________________________

 

And I'm not against this slot machine.. hell the casino was my favorite event. But the fact is it's interfering with the materials processing activity in the game.

Toss numbers all you want but fact is fact you can go level 1 into a stronghold and have access to max level materials out of thin air just for credits.

It's not like gtn where someone had to work for it and get it in first place.

Or maybe someone got Tokens from cartel packs (which is limited rng depended on huge price per pack and small drop rate) , or conquest which you get 1 time per week.

 

This is flowing, unlimited amount of tokens which you can suck out of that machine all day without any crew skills! it's crazy.

 

let's make a test...

go to the machine purchase 1 stack and see which drops u get for that.

with the percentages you gave us 80-90% of the tokens should be lost but that's not the case... it's RNG and right now the rng is for some reasons granting huge amounts of winnings to everyone and in the process the prizes are tokens which can grant anyone, of any level, without any crew skill any crafted material he wish from grade 1 to grade 11.

this is one feature which personally for me, and I'm sure for others ruins major part of the game.

I used to do crafting and crew skills on my legacy 2-3 times a day at least.. since the slot machine I didn't bothered even once... there is no point.

[LordArtemis]

So what you are implying is it's ok to add new aspect to the game (gambling machine in SH, raid gear offered as CM items, Universal comms, removal of Planetary comms, CM crystals, CM gear, CM speeders, CM weapons, PVP gear with reduced or removed rating requirements, Embargoed items for sale on vendors, Treek compared to HK-51, removal of training costs) while in the process ruining entire different part of the game which people invested in many days?

 

Fixed that for you LironBD. Sorry, had your name wrong.

Edited January 17, 2015 by LordArtemis

[lironBD]

Fixed that for you LironBD. Sorry, had your name wrong.

I really didn't get what you wanted to say there?

 

I'm here speaking about the slot machine and it's effects on crew skills.

Regarding the other stuff you wrote I wrote already I'm against dumbing down the game and some of the things you added I'm really against those but all of those things are their own issues which is not discussed here.

We can take them as an example of dumbing down the game and making the more valued rewards into CM sotre and related stuff but the main issue discussed here is the Slot machine effect on crew skills.

so while taking the effort to quote me can you be so kind to answer my question with your opinion on the subject you quoted? or you don't have any?