Sentinel and Marauder Changes

[DarkNecroCrusher]

I made a thread to prepare our sent/mara feedback for the devs when 3.1.1 will hit the PTS :

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792229

 

With this, I think we could be able to avoid the 50+ number of pages full of debates and disagreements between players, and give a solid, precise list of what we want.

 

Just to show you what we have in it :

 

Players suggestions :

 

GbtF : Revert or remove the health cost + Merge or buff utilities tied to it

 

Saber Ward : Add a passive ability effect for Sent/Mara only when using it. Guardian/Jugg has something like that at lvl 10. OR Decrease its CD to 2 min with a passive ability for Sent/Mara only.

 

Transcendance : Self movement-impairment cleanse baseline. Possibility to be put on a 30-45 seconds CD out of the Centering/Fury system, with Valorous Call/Frenzy refreshing it's CD.

 

Fleetfooted/Unbound utility : Give us Force Camouflage cleanse back in this one.

 

Expunging Camouflage utility : Could then be : "Reduces Force Camouflage CD by 5-10 seconds. In addition, when exiting stealth, you are immune to movement impairments for 4-6 seconds."

 

Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw : We need it back. Remove Leg Slash/Crippling Slash completely and replace it with CT/DT like this : 2 Focus/Rage cost, 10 seconds slow + trauma, no CD, 10m range.

 

Just Pursuit/Inescapable utility : Has to be a ONE use root by using CT/DT with a 10 seconds ICD (or Leg Slash/Crippling Slash if you don't give us CT/DT back). Maybe find a way to move it to a lower tier.

 

Rebuke/Cloak of Pain : There are too many utilities tied to this skill on the same tier (and most of them are not worth an utility point). Something has to be done. You can merge some together and move the others between tier 1 or 2.

 

Defensive Forms utility : Should be a baseline passive ability.

 

Contemplation utility : The Centering/Fury part of it could be a lower tier utility to replace Defensive Forms. Then add something to the CD reduction of Awe/Intimidating Roar.

 

Watchman/Anni : The rotation feels clunky. Make it smooth and fluid again. Bring back our 2% self heals and eventually make Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw spread the DoTs instead of Force Sweep/Smash.

 

Combat/Carnage : Maybe change the Precision/Gore to a stack system like the devs have suggested it before : 3 stacks, 6 seconds timer + skill CD only triggered when you use a damaging skill, 1 stack lost per use of a damaging skill. OR Give us our 4.5 seconds window back. What about Master Strike/Ravage usable while moving to replace the current Ataru Savvy passive (Ataru procs on Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash) ?

 

Concentration/Fury : With the suggestions above, it seems that the spec will be ok, maybe a tweak to surge bonus from Koan stacks but not more.

 

Feel free to participate !

[Killerzunion]

@ DarkNecroCrusher

 

I'm sorry but your suggested changes are a bit ridiculous. If the dev's made even a small fraction of those it would literally break the game because everyone would re-roll to sentinels/ marauders.

 

You like many others on this forum (that I've seen) seem to focus on how to make the class OP as all hell. The objective is to find balance.

 

Not simply to rotate through the class giving each it's 15 minutes of OPness simply because players QQ about how it's not OP. Honestly, the devs more than likely don't look on forums because forums are really only filled with people whining about how their class is "cruddy" compared to the rest.

 

 

Now onto my own bit of whining:

*Disclaimer* Yes I've been playing a sentinel since launch. Been on the Bastion (PvP server) since it was created, so when it comes to PvP I do have some idea of what I'm talking about. Before you ask, no I'm not really into 4v4 ranked. Mostly because the solo Queues are a joke, and I don't do Grouped Ranked due to scheduling conflicts. However, aside from doing dailies for Creds I'm Queuing reg WZs either as solo or with a group of guild members. As I said, I've been playing since launch and have 1 character of every advanced class on the Republic side. I also think I'm a fairly good player.

 

(Imps sorry, but I play mostly Republic so I'll be using sentinel terminology)

 

Watchman spec:

I honestly don't know why people are complaining so much about this spec. Yes the rotation is a bit clunky (and maybe even somewhat difficult to learn) but no spec is supposed to be easy to master. Just take the time needed to learn it by sitting on a dummy until it becomes ingrained. You really only need to apply cauterize and plasma blades, and once you've stacked merciless slash three times use force melt. Add slash as a filler and force sweep to spread. Not terribly difficult.

 

But it would help many players if the devs smoothed out the rotation, maybe add the CDs back onto the dots to help players with the timing, and remove the CD on merciless slash. But otherwise the DPS from the rotation (when done correctly is fine) but as always it takes some ramp up time (not very good for PvP but then again you have the other two specs which are way more bursty and just as easy to learn).

 

Only 2 suggested changes (that are optional really, people just need to suck it up)

 

Combat spec:

Combat's burst is pretty crazy if I'm given 4-6 seconds on target, that target is going to die unless they use their DCDs and honestly, that may not even save them. So giving Combat sentinels CC/ Root immunity would be OP period. Ya it would be nice to have a couple more ways of closing the distance on ranged players, maybe add a slow/ 3 sec root on DST or replace leg slash w/ crippling throw @ 10 meters.

 

As far as the whole getting rooted/ CCd business I'd suggest people stop yelling at the devs and start yelling at the healers in WZs with them. All healers/ healer classes (commando, sage, scoundrel) have a cleanse ability that removes all CC/roots from the target. And since healers know how to cleanse in PvE, I suggest they learn to do it in PvP (it's honestly not that difficult healers, because I'm able to do it on my Commando and still get close to 1 mil heals in an 8v8).

 

Only 1 suggested change (but it's kind of global- for all specs)

 

Concentration spec:

Honestly, I really like Concentration and I would play it more often, but it has too many dang abilities. Devs said they made abilities share CDs to avoid ability bloat, but they completely failed with that idea when they made Concentration spec. I mean overall they don't really need any more mobility because they have the 10m range big hit and zealous leap. Also, the rotation is really easy to get the hang of, so I'm calling it good when it comes to Concentration.

 

No suggested changes. (Devs did good with this spec)

 

Overall:

 

The sentinel utilities are pretty good the way they are. Sure some of them would be better off as baseline because everyone with half a brain gets it. However, doing so would mean having to create new utilities to replace the ones that were made baseline, and then having to re-balance the the new utilities. They may as well re-create the entire sentinel trees at that point, which is incredibly too much work. Honestly, Sentinels and Marauders are fine the way they are, it's the other classes that need to be checked because they are incredibly unbalanced.

 

Basically, from what I've seen people are calling out to the Devs to make Sentinels OP in order to counter the classes that are already OP (which is the wrong move). Instead of buffing Sentinels, they need to nerf the other classes to bring the classes back down to where they were supposed to be. Instead of making their power levels over 9000! (lol DBZ reference FTW!).

 

 

P.S. GbtF should be completely reworked because it is currently useless (except for very ideal conditions ie having a pocket healer or simply needing 4 more secs to burn your target down, which never works in PvP) and reverting it back to the way it was would cause literally EVERYONE to cry out all at once (YES! SW Ep 4 reference for an even better win!)

[DynamiCtagez]

Wow. I wasn't sure how you can be so blind until I read you only play regs with a full group.

 

@ DarkNecroCrusher

 

I'm sorry but your suggested changes are a bit ridiculous. If the dev's made even a small fraction of those it would literally break the game because everyone would re-roll to sentinels/ marauders.

 

Not in the slightest. If you compare it to what other classes have, this is still fine.

 

You like many others on this forum (that I've seen) seem to focus on how to make the class OP as all hell. The objective is to find balance.

 

No. The only way to achieve balance, is to give as many suggestions as possible. Bioware is NOT known for fixing anything balance-related in small patches. They usually completely change the balance once a year with a big patch with 1 or 2 classes becoming useless until the next patch. If we want something substantial in this patch that ACTUALLY helps, we need to suggest everything we've got.

 

Not simply to rotate through the class giving each it's 15 minutes of OPness simply because players QQ about how it's not OP. Honestly, the devs more than likely don't look on forums because forums are really only filled with people whining about how their class is "cruddy" compared to the rest.

 

The thing is: Marauders and Sents ARE **** compared to the rest right now. Like Mercs have been utter **** bfor 2.0. I have all 8 classes and I can easily compare. I've played group ranked every season with being top 10 both seasons in which I played seriously. I've always and only played Sent/Mara. Last season Marauders were already useless for soloranked if you were on a server with half-decent players, unless you tried so *********** hard you would start bleeding from your eyes and even then you could achieve 10 times more with other classes. In group ranked they were still good because of Carnage and hardswitch setups. Now they are useless against all the knockback roots. Hardswitch comps are impossible because of double sin comps with endless immunity and technically 2 stunbreaks. Only comps right now are pressure comps. Marauders have barely any pressure if against decent opponents. They can't apply any with being rooted 90% of the time against 3 or 4 classes with knockback roots, if the opponents know what they're doing. Fact is: Maras/Sents are close to useless for any kind of ranked PvP right now. Almost every successful group ranked player who played Marauder or Sent on TOFN rerolled to Sniper/Sorc/Sin/PT for now.

 

Now onto my own bit of whining:

*Disclaimer* Yes I've been playing a sentinel since launch. Been on the Bastion (PvP server) since it was created, so when it comes to PvP I do have some idea of what I'm talking about. Before you ask, no I'm not really into 4v4 ranked. Mostly because the solo Queues are a joke, and I don't do Grouped Ranked due to scheduling conflicts. However, aside from doing dailies for Creds I'm Queuing reg WZs either as solo or with a group of guild members. As I said, I've been playing since launch and have 1 character of every advanced class on the Republic side. I also think I'm a fairly good player.

 

Okay. Now I see why you're saying this. You never play arenas. And you only play regs with a group. Sorry, but then you can't claim you would know how balance changes would affect PvP as a whole. Playing with a healer or even tank as backup is ALWAYS easy. Even with the crappiest **** class it's possible to pull high numbers and feel great when you play with a group. And that's cool. But you can't talk about balance then.

 

Watchman spec:

I honestly don't know why people are complaining so much about this spec. Yes the rotation is a bit clunky (and maybe even somewhat difficult to learn) but no spec is supposed to be easy to master. Just take the time needed to learn it by sitting on a dummy until it becomes ingrained. You really only need to apply cauterize and plasma blades, and once you've stacked merciless slash three times use force melt. Add slash as a filler and force sweep to spread. Not terribly difficult.

 

But it would help many players if the devs smoothed out the rotation, maybe add the CDs back onto the dots to help players with the timing, and remove the CD on merciless slash. But otherwise the DPS from the rotation (when done correctly is fine) but as always it takes some ramp up time (not very good for PvP but then again you have the other two specs which are way more bursty and just as easy to learn).

 

The spec was crap before 3.0 for PvP. It's still crap but it's now slightly better in itself (while Marauders overall are in a much worse state utility-wise than before 3.0) while Combat got worse, so both specs are on about the same level now.

I'm not gonna get into all the issues of this spec but WOW. Are you seriously trying to tell us we should go train on a dummy and then it would get better? You gotta be kidding. I've been playing this spec since relase and it's **** since they nerfed the self-heal. I've been playing it again every now and then for fun pre 3.0 and it has now become my most-played spec. Again, the issues of this spec are many (not all of them horribad), so I'm only gonna name the most important ones:

• It's starved on focus.
  
• It's easily kited.
  
• It now has three dots, two of them spammable and with less DMG than before. This first of all makes the spec clunky. And it makes it technically weaker, since you now need 3 dots for your full DMG, which is an additional GCD and more focus spent, before you have everything applied.
  
• The self-heals are useless in their current state.
  
• The dot spread costs too much focus, does almost no DMG, and has a range way too small for it being actually useful outside of a total brainless zergfest, where everybody clumps on one spot.
  

 

Combat spec:

Combat's burst is pretty crazy if I'm given 4-6 seconds on target, that target is going to die unless they use their DCDs and honestly, that may not even save them. So giving Combat sentinels CC/ Root immunity would be OP period. Ya it would be nice to have a couple more ways of closing the distance on ranged players, maybe add a slow/ 3 sec root on DST or replace leg slash w/ crippling throw @ 10 meters.

 

As far as the whole getting rooted/ CCd business I'd suggest people stop yelling at the devs and start yelling at the healers in WZs with them. All healers/ healer classes (commando, sage, scoundrel) have a cleanse ability that removes all CC/roots from the target. And since healers know how to cleanse in PvE, I suggest they learn to do it in PvP (it's honestly not that difficult healers, because I'm able to do it on my Commando and still get close to 1 mil heals in an 8v8).

 

Again, you show you have no clue what you're talking about. The burst is decent. But it needs setup time and is easier countered than ANY other burst in the entire game, because everybody can see it coming. The class as a whole needs immunities anyway, not only Combat. Immunities specifially for every Gore would be too strong yes, but he did NOT state that in his post. Read again. He suggests a charge system that would make Gore not go completely to waste after being CCd while using it.

 

And your second point is probably the most ridiculous one in your whole post. Shows again you only play with a pocket healer all the time. The amount of roots or slows just a SINGLE sorc can put on you is much more than a cleanse with a CD can fix. Plus not every class can cleanse all effects, only tech OR force. Plus in ranked this is absolutely impossible, since you need your cleanse for cleansing ACTUAL CC, like mezzes. And you can't expect a random healer in a warzone to cleanse just you all the time.

 

Concentration spec:

Honestly, I really like Concentration and I would play it more often, but it has too many dang abilities. Devs said they made abilities share CDs to avoid ability bloat, but they completely failed with that idea when they made Concentration spec. I mean overall they don't really need any more mobility because they have the 10m range big hit and zealous leap. Also, the rotation is really easy to get the hang of, so I'm calling it good when it comes to Concentration.

 

You are actually right on that one. Rather one ability less but shared CD and more DMG.

 

Overall:

 

The sentinel utilities are pretty good the way they are. Sure some of them would be better off as baseline because everyone with half a brain gets it. However, doing so would mean having to create new utilities to replace the ones that were made baseline, and then having to re-balance the the new utilities. They may as well re-create the entire sentinel trees at that point, which is incredibly too much work. Honestly, Sentinels and Marauders are fine the way they are, it's the other classes that need to be checked because they are incredibly unbalanced.

 

Basically, from what I've seen people are calling out to the Devs to make Sentinels OP in order to counter the classes that are already OP (which is the wrong move). Instead of buffing Sentinels, they need to nerf the other classes to bring the classes back down to where they were supposed to be. Instead of making their power levels over 9000! (lol DBZ reference FTW!).

 

You contradict yourself here. Why in hell would they nerf all other classes to bring them down to the ****** level of Sentinels whose utilities are utterly useless for the most part. Why in hell wouldn't they just buff one class instead of nerfing 4 or 5 others. You make no sense. Some bug fixes and emergency balance fixes need to come for assassins' endless immunities, Sorcs being not interruptable and maybe PT/VG shoulder canon (bring the old global CD for it back), but other than that most classes seem to be okay so far.

 

Sentinels utilities are ********. There is near to NO choice at all right now in what to take. Half of the utilities are entirely useless and some others are absolutely mandatory (like Defensive Forms) and should be a baseline passive. A lot of them need to be changed. Enough suggestions have been made.

 

P.S. GbtF should be completely reworked because it is currently useless (except for very ideal conditions ie having a pocket healer or simply needing 4 more secs to burn your target down, which never works in PvP) and reverting it back to the way it was would cause literally EVERYONE to cry out all at once (YES! SW Ep 4 reference for an even better win!)

 

Reverting it is one of the best suggestions right now. If they come up with a better, equally useful idea, bring it! As long as we get something actually useful, idc.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DynamiCtagez

[DarkNecroCrusher]

I've played a combat sent for almost 2 years now, and I never felt as squishy as we are since 3.0, and never as controlled and shut down.

 

Saying that Sent/Mara is fine is utter garbage and a lack of knowledge of what other classes can do.

 

My main is full 174 and I have also a heal commando, a tank vanguard, a telek sage and a vigilance guardian, full 168, so I can easily tell you that you don't need to go with a pocket healer to wreck ennemy asses with those two last classes/specs.

 

With a Combat/Carnage Sent/Mara, you have to play at your max skill level ALL the f*cking time to do what other classes can do even if they are meh players.

 

Every class is OP with a pocket healer, except that other classes with a pocket healer are just in GOD MODE, just because they are OP before having a pocker healer.

 

And you're calling it a balanced melee class ? I call BS.

 

We had tools before 3.0 in combat/carnage to counter all the roots/snares/bumps/kiting tools, they removed them and shared them with the other specs. Now we can only take 60% back of what we had before.

 

Yes we have a decent burst, but we don't have pressure anymore because of the lack of tools to stay on our target.

 

So stop saying I want the class to be OP as hell, I just want it to be balanced with the other classes without them beeing nerfed.

 

If we don't give any suggestion to the dev, be sure they wouldn't do at least one thing you may have dreamt about.

 

@DynamiCtagez :

 

Thanks for defending the thread =)

Edited January 29, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[Emperor-Norton]

GbtF : Revert or remove the health cost + Merge or buff utilities tied to it

I think I need to agree with this. Those utilities need to be merged or have another effect added to them.

Saber Ward : Add a passive ability effect for Sent/Mara only when using it. Guardian/Jugg has something like that at lvl 10. OR Decrease its CD to 2 min with a passive ability for Sent/Mara only

2 Minutes is too short of a cooldown. That gives it the same CD as the Sins one, while having Force/Tech DR and the Heal Utility.

 

Transcendance : Self movement-impairment cleanse baseline. Possibility to be put on a 30-45 seconds CD out of the Centering/Fury system, with Valorous Call/Frenzy refreshing it's CD.

Frenzy should not reset the CD on Trans. The point of removing it from the Centering System is so it is removed from abilities connected to Centering. Plus having 20 seconds of back to back Trans is too much. Just having it put on a cooldown system is plenty.

 

Defensive Forms utility : Should be a baseline passive ability.

I have to agree with this.

 

Combat/Carnage : Maybe change the Precision/Gore to a stack system like the devs have suggested it before : 3 stacks, 6 seconds timer + skill CD only triggered when you use a damaging skill, 1 stack lost per use of a damaging skill. OR Give us our 4.5 seconds window back. What about Master Strike/Ravage usable while moving to replace the current Ataru Savvy passive (Ataru procs on Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash) ?

I guess having it work like Shoulder Cannon could be viable. Still I prefer the current system, just upped to 4.5 seconds (although it will require a nerf to the bonus from Gore or a CD increase on Gore). Dream changes would be getting rid of DB, giving it a passive increasing FS to DB levels (like Smash for Fury), and giving the spec an attack to use outside Gore Windows to spice up an already boring spec.

 

Also the Ataru Form on Sweepish Slash is Combat's AOE ability, so I highly doubt it is going away.

Watchman spec:

I honestly don't know why people are complaining so much about this spec. Yes the rotation is a bit clunky (and maybe even somewhat difficult to learn) but no spec is supposed to be easy to master. Just take the time needed to learn it by sitting on a dummy until it becomes ingrained. You really only need to apply cauterize and plasma blades, and once you've stacked merciless slash three times use force melt. Add slash as a filler and force sweep to spread. Not terribly difficult.

 

But it would help many players if the devs smoothed out the rotation, maybe add the CDs back onto the dots to help players with the timing, and remove the CD on merciless slash. But otherwise the DPS from the rotation (when done correctly is fine) but as always it takes some ramp up time (not very good for PvP but then again you have the other two specs which are way more bursty and just as easy to learn).

 

Only 2 suggested changes (that are optional really, people just need to suck it up)

Yeah about that.

P.S. GbtF should be completely reworked because it is currently useless (except for very ideal conditions ie having a pocket healer or simply needing 4 more secs to burn your target down, which never works in PvP) and reverting it back to the way it was would cause literally EVERYONE to cry out all at once (YES! SW Ep 4 reference for an even better win!)

I am pretty sure in the game of Jugg Heal to Full and Sorc heal to full + damage immunity after Barrier. people won't complain about how Sentinels have old Guarded back (note that when Guarded was nerfed none of those existed). Anyone halfway good at PvP knows Sents need to be buffed. In PvE they suck like other Melee, but they aren't taken due to Ranged being too good and the 3.0 changes to Watchman (last one is mostly personal choice from players).

 

And what Dynami said.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Emperor-Norton

[Khryn]

I'm sure it's been covered and more well thought out, but I was certainly hoping for some anti-cc measures to be

introduced. We are at the mercy of CC, being melee as we are. The leg slash enhancement sure does make it

more viable, but it doesn't really matter that much if we are CC'd and then focused down before the CC breaks.

[skarlson]

I made a thread to prepare our sent/mara feedback for the devs when 3.1.1 will hit the PTS :

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792229

 

With this, I think we could be able to avoid the 50+ number of pages full of debates and disagreements between players, and give a solid, precise list of what we want.

 

Just to show you what we have in it :

 

Players suggestions :

 

GbtF : Revert or remove the health cost + Merge or buff utilities tied to it

 

Saber Ward : Add a passive ability effect for Sent/Mara only when using it. Guardian/Jugg has something like that at lvl 10. OR Decrease its CD to 2 min with a passive ability for Sent/Mara only.

 

Transcendance : Self movement-impairment cleanse baseline. Possibility to be put on a 30-45 seconds CD out of the Centering/Fury system, with Valorous Call/Frenzy refreshing it's CD.

 

Fleetfooted/Unbound utility : Give us Force Camouflage cleanse back in this one.

 

Expunging Camouflage utility : Could then be : "Reduces Force Camouflage CD by 5-10 seconds. In addition, when exiting stealth, you are immune to movement impairments for 4-6 seconds."

 

Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw : We need it back. Remove Leg Slash/Crippling Slash completely and replace it with CT/DT like this : 2 Focus/Rage cost, 10 seconds slow + trauma, no CD, 10m range.

 

Just Pursuit/Inescapable utility : Has to be a ONE use root by using CT/DT with a 10 seconds ICD (or Leg Slash/Crippling Slash if you don't give us CT/DT back). Maybe find a way to move it to a lower tier.

 

Rebuke/Cloak of Pain : There are too many utilities tied to this skill on the same tier (and most of them are not worth an utility point). Something has to be done. You can merge some together and move the others between tier 1 or 2.

 

Defensive Forms utility : Should be a baseline passive ability.

 

Contemplation utility : The Centering/Fury part of it could be a lower tier utility to replace Defensive Forms. Then add something to the CD reduction of Awe/Intimidating Roar.

 

Watchman/Anni : The rotation feels clunky. Make it smooth and fluid again. Bring back our 2% self heals and eventually make Dual Saber Throw/Twin Saber Throw spread the DoTs instead of Force Sweep/Smash.

 

Combat/Carnage : Maybe change the Precision/Gore to a stack system like the devs have suggested it before : 3 stacks, 6 seconds timer + skill CD only triggered when you use a damaging skill, 1 stack lost per use of a damaging skill. OR Give us our 4.5 seconds window back. What about Master Strike/Ravage usable while moving to replace the current Ataru Savvy passive (Ataru procs on Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash) ?

 

Concentration/Fury : With the suggestions above, it seems that the spec will be ok, maybe a tweak to surge bonus from Koan stacks but not more.

 

Feel free to participate !

 

This is not the class or spec you are looking for. Try assassin:hatred.

[Dyvim]

I've played a combat sent for almost 2 years now, and I never felt as squishy as we are since 3.0, and never as controlled and shut down.

 

Saying that Sent/Mara is fine is utter garbage and a lack of knowledge of what other classes can do.

 

 

Very well said. EVERYTHING is comparable to other classes, because that is who we are in competition with in pvp and pve for spots on teams or in ops. And most of us play other classes, so the deficiencies are f'all glaring.

 

And we just saw the devs first cut at this and its pathetic.

 

We need tools to make sure we have the time on target to get through a rotation or actually get to use our burst window. THAT MEANS CC IMMUNITY. PERIOD. Other classes get it. We don't. WHY? We need it as much or more than any other class.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

....

 

2 Minutes is too short of a cooldown. That gives it the same CD as the Sins one, while having Force/Tech DR and the Heal Utility.

 

.

 

You mean Deflection, the same one that gives them 12 seconds of cc immunity every 2 minutes? And you are worried about ours being OP? Clueless. Force/tech DR at 25% IS NOTHING. NOTHING, comparably speaking...CC is the problem. 25% doesn't do a damn thing to keep us from getting burst down after we are cc-a-palooza'd. Equating 12 seconds of CC immunity, which is VASTLY BETTER THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE, to our 3 minute CD saber ward shows you ARE CLUELESS...saber ward could be on a 60 sec cooldown and it would still be crap compared to Deflection with Sturdiness. CC IS THE PROBLEM, specifically our melee classes disparate susceptibility to it.

 

FFS, go try and "help" another class will ya. This kind of "omg we might be OP" bs when we are living with what OTHER CLASSES have now, and are at the bottom of the barrel, is tired, old, and self defeating. Its stupid.

 

How about the devs take that 25% DR, stick it where the sun doesn't shine, and give us saber ward with 12 seconds of cc immunity, on a 2 min CD. If it isn't OP for shadows, why is it OP for us??? And you can take the BS 3% heal utility and cram that while you are at it too. My serenity shadow gets NUMEROUS heals from Battle Readiness...2 min cooldown, plus other buffs to damage to go with it, AND a heal from EVERY serenity strike I use, on a 12 second cooldown...plus resilience, plus resilience on force cloak activation, plus stealth, plus MUCH BETTTER CC abilities. Oh yeah, I have DEFLECTION. So really, stick it. Plus force speed WITH SNARE AND MOVEMENT cc BREAK, 15 sec cd, force slow, 12 sec cd, 2 DoTs SPREADABLE FROM 30 METERS away, with GREAT FiB AOE. Yeah, stick it.

 

The devs are perfectly capable of keeping the class frakked up all on their own...they don't need help keeping it underpowered OR underperforming compared to other classes.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dyvim

[Emperor-Norton]

You mean Deflection, the same one that gives them 12 seconds of cc immunity every 2 minutes? And you are worried about ours being OP? What a buffoon. Force/tech DR IS NOTHING. NOTHING, comparably speaking...CC is the problem. Equating 12 seconds of CC immunity, which is VASTLY BETTER THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE, to our 3 minute CD saber ward shows you ARE CLUELESS...saber ward could be on a 60 sec cooldown and it would still be crap compared to Deflection with Sturdiness. CC IS THE PROBLEM, specifically our melee classes disparate susceptibility to it.

 

FFS, go try and "help" another class will ya. This kind of "omg we might be OP" bs when we are living with what OTHER CLASSES have now, and are at the bottom of the barrel, is tired, old, and self defeating. Its stupid.

 

How about the devs take that 25% DR, stick it where the sun doesn't shine, and give us saber ward with 12 seconds of cc immunity, on a 2 min CD. If it isn't OP for shadows, why is it OP for us??? And you can take the BS 3% heal utility and cram that while you are at it too.

Yet Assassin CC Immunity is widely considered to be overpowered and should get nerfed. The point of changes is to make Marauders balanced, not overpowered. You are also the person who wants Marauders to get Unremitting which everyone good at PvP knows is way too much.

[Dyvim]

Yet Assassin CC Immunity is widely considered to be overpowered and should get nerfed. The point of changes is to make Marauders balanced, not overpowered. You are also the person who wants Marauders to get Unremitting which everyone good at PvP knows is way too much.

 

You are damn right we should have some version of unremitting so our ONE MAIN CLOSER ISNT A JOKE TO DEFEAT. Unremitting DOESNT EVEN COST THEM A UTILITY POINT. A blind noob could see that...you have yet to make a rational case for why it would be too much for us, but not too much for them...here is an idea, make it random duration, give a random factor on us from 1 to 3 seconds of immunity after a leap...just so we have a chance to do something before the cc palooza hits and we are useless. And so it isn't so damn predictable and trivial to negate us. My whole point is to SHIFT some of the melee burden in this cc rich environment away from us and onto other classes that now snicker at us. So give us a random immunity after leap, so they do not have it so damn easy. CC IS THE PROBLEM, period. EVERYONE knows it. And until you start talking about serious ways to fix it, you cant be taken seriously. Pretending it is fine or that any fix to it is OP is BS.

 

DEFLECTION isn't getting nerfed. And vigi guards aren't getting nerfed. It isn't too much for them, so it isn't too much for us. STOP WHINING about "oh we might be OP" when we are DEALING with other classes NOW that have these abilities and WE are at the bottom of the barrel. HOW ABOUT we aim to GET WHERE THEY ARE, and worry about the self abuse later.

 

CC IS THE PROBLEM, and its no coincidence that the classes that have the tools to overcome it are the ones that are doing better. PERIOD. Sorry, seeing the devs first laughable patch notes is extremely irritating, so I'm just not in the mood for your self limiting crap atm. Devs don't need help keeping the class screwed.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dyvim

[DarkNecroCrusher]

You are damn right we should have some version of unremitting so our ONE MAIN CLOSER ISNT A JOKE TO DEFEAT. Unremitting DOESNT EVEN COST THEM A UTILITY POINT. A blind noob could see that...you have yet to make a rational case for why it would be too much for us, but not too much for them...here is an idea, make it random duration, give a random factor on us from 1 to 3 seconds of immunity after a leap...just so we have a chance to do something before the cc palooza hits and we are useless. And so it isn't so damn predictable and trivial to negate us. My whole point is to SHIFT some of the melee burden in this cc rich environment away from us and onto other classes that now snicker at us. So give us a random immunity after leap, so they do not have it so damn easy. CC IS THE PROBLEM, period. EVERYONE knows it. And until you start talking about serious ways to fix it, you cant be taken seriously. Pretending it is fine or that any fix to it is OP is BS.

 

DEFLECTION isn't getting nerfed. And vigi guards aren't getting nerfed. It isn't too much for them, so it isn't too much for us. STOP WHINING about "oh we might be OP" when we are DEALING with other classes NOW that have these abilities and WE are at the bottom of the barrel. HOW ABOUT we aim to GET WHERE THEY ARE, and worry about the self abuse later.

 

CC IS THE PROBLEM, and its no coincidence that the classes that have the tools to overcome it are the ones that are doing better. PERIOD. Sorry, seeing the devs first laughable patch notes is extremely irritating, so I'm just not in the mood for your self limiting crap atm. Devs don't need help keeping the class screwed.

 

Just calm down, YOU have just no clue.

 

CC IS NOT THE PROBLEM, movement impairements, bumps and pulls ARE.

 

Deflection DOESN'T HAVE CC immunity BASELINE (you see I can also use caps lock, it's kind of fun). CC immunity is only possible with an HEROIC UTILITY POINT.

 

UNREMITTING is only for Vigilance/Vengeance, it's part of the spec, and it is just perfect like it is to have a constant flow of action and damage, there is not real burst in this spec.

 

Sent/Mara does NOT need this, even in the Combat spec, we only need tools to counter roots/snares.

 

We are the flipper ball spec, we just need something to get back on our target, it's how it should work.

 

We jump, they bump/stun/root/kite, we use a tool to get back on target, they use a tool, and so on.

 

The gameplay is and SHOULD stay like this. We need a root breaker baseline or a very short CC immunity, but not more.

 

We just don't have enough tools right now, but be patient, we have a new dev in the combat team, and I feel like he will do the job well.

 

What I'd love to see is making Force push a skill for Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior baseline, with the reset of the jump.

 

We lack a pull/bump/high mobility skill and I would love the Force Push so much.

[Zadtro]

Unremitting/unstoppable is the key for melee. Every ranged class having a stun means mara/sent is just stunned to death in any situation. Ranged classes can kite, mara does not have the option to kite.

 

I see less and less melee in warzones everyday, if there was unremitting/unstoppable heroic utility point it would help melee to have an edge by being melee. It will have different effect on different forms like this:

 

Unremitting/Unstoppable - Grants immunity to all character impairing effects after force leap/charge, has different effects depending on lightsaber form:

Shien grants 4 secs immunity

Aturu grants 3 secs immunity (enough for ravage/master strike, before people complain, damage was nerfed in 3.0)

Shii-cho grants 3 secs immunity

Juyo grants 2s immunity (they have reduced leap time so they shouldn't have too much immunity)

Soresu does not benefit from unremitting/unstoppable (tanks can absorb the damage, they don't need the immunity)

 

Being melee would be encouraged because you actually have a reason to jump in instead of waiting for the fight to start before doing anything and the skill of players using their stuns would actually have to think about it instead of just seeing a leap then stunning without even thinking.

[calamatiesend]

Unremitting/unstoppable is the key for melee. Every ranged class having a stun means mara/sent is just stunned to death in any situation. Ranged classes can kite, mara does not have the option to kite.

 

I see less and less melee in warzones everyday, if there was unremitting/unstoppable heroic utility point it would help melee to have an edge by being melee. It will have different effect on different forms like this:

 

Unremitting/Unstoppable - Grants immunity to all character impairing effects after force leap/charge, has different effects depending on lightsaber form:

Shien grants 4 secs immunity

Aturu grants 3 secs immunity (enough for ravage/master strike, before people complain, damage was nerfed in 3.0)

Shii-cho grants 3 secs immunity

Juyo grants 2s immunity (they have reduced leap time so they shouldn't have too much immunity)

Soresu does not benefit from unremitting/unstoppable (tanks can absorb the damage, they don't need the immunity)

 

Being melee would be encouraged because you actually have a reason to jump in instead of waiting for the fight to start before doing anything and the skill of players using their stuns would actually have to think about it instead of just seeing a leap then stunning without even thinking.

 

We do not need more CC immunity in this game, it has already almost completely broken hard switch comps/made them so much harder to pull off. We should not be adding immunities to our class or any other... Sins cc immunity is OP and everyone knows it. Unremitting would be OP for us, please if you do not realize this you do not play PvP at a high level.....

 

Also as Dark stated, we need root immunity/movement impairment immunity to stay on target and the first round of changes does not do enough. The 10m crippling slash is a start but using a heroic utility to root someone at 10m is still not worth it...... especially with brooding and expunge/unbound still in that tier. Mobility is what we need.

 

The change to UR/GBtF is great, but the added CD is not needed since it does not provide any CC immunity so 1 root or stun still shuts us down for the 4 seconds. However it is a much needed change and will definitely help as a great focus/burst prevention tool.

 

Still hoping for some small dps tweaks unless other classes are brought inline since with 100% uptime we still cannot parse close to ranged and I would tell you I am lucky if I have close to 75% uptime against a decent player......

Edited January 30, 2015 by calamatiesend

[DuHavok]

I read about the changes and boy, i have to say (whatever the consequences will be): Eric Musco, you really crashed this games, you suck. To change undying rage is a good start, but rly, THIS was not the main issue. Mara/Sent needs a mobility buff, to get out of this annoying roots/stuns. I mean, are you not able to compare mara/sent with other classes, are you dump or do you just not care? And what about dot assa nerf? Rly, get to work and dont post those ugly pictures of yours.

[erdems]

Hey folks,

 

We know there has been concern from the Sentinel and Marauder community about the status of their class, and when they might be receiving changes. Sents and Maras will see changes in update 3.1.1. As a secondary note, it is our plan that in some cases we will also put our minor patches (such as 3.1.1) on PTS. This way we can get some additional testing, especially around class changes.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

i resub after this news, then i saw the possible changes here

 

this "no penalty" change on "Guarded by the Force" with no restriction on health level makes sents invincible, or like most people said: FoTM. My main is sent and i love playing sents so much but dont want to be invincible either.

 

Yes the penalty is absurdly much and it should be corrected but pls at least change it with a restriction like "only usable below %25 of max health" and/or reduce the penalty to %20 or something like that... Otherwise it will break the class balance very bad.

 

Moreover i would like to say somethings in my mind:

 

* change the pvp gear passives please, they are so ineffective together.

 

* Transfer Blade Strorm effect of concentration's "Momentum" to combat dicipline (with an ataru form change, of course). we (concentration players) dont really need it. But keep the other effects of Momentum same pls.

 

* you took our wings by nerfing our offhand, so pls increase the ofhand damage or its accuracy or give back our crippling throw.

 

* many said concentration is still a good dicipline, i agree with that but it is heart-breaking to see the unofficial symbol of the dicipline "force sweep" is now a junk. i personally dont like those changes, never wanted "focused burst". instead give our force sweep back pls. u can direct its surge to targeted opponent only. i think it will balance the situation.

 

besides, if u really wanna balance the game pls analyse the ranked pvp boards first nextime, in order not to buff the OP and not to nerf the weak. for instance the ranged dps classes were weak and they still are, guards/juggs were strong enough and now they are OP. you could see this by analysing those boards..

 

and if u really want more constructive suggestions open your forums to non-subs (at-least to prefered status), because more ideas are good for the game, dont underestimate those players' ideas... respecting all ideas creates more effective game and it means more subs more profit.

 

Afterall, thank u so much for hearing us at last and for considering some changes:)

Edited January 30, 2015 by erdems

[Khryn]

Just calm down, YOU have just no clue.

 

CC IS NOT THE PROBLEM, movement impairements, bumps and pulls ARE.

 

Amusingly enough with your retort, movement impairments, bumps, and pulls are all forms of crowd control (CC).

 

 

Which IS the problem with a class that has an effective range of what 4m? We need to be up on our target and with as much CC as this game has, it's easy to just keep us in one place, thereby negating us on the battlefield.

[Dyvim]

Just calm down, YOU have just no clue.

 

CC IS NOT THE PROBLEM, movement impairements, bumps and pulls ARE.

 

Deflection DOESN'T HAVE CC immunity BASELINE (you see I can also use caps lock, it's kind of fun). CC immunity is only possible with an HEROIC UTILITY POINT.

 

UNREMITTING is only for Vigilance/Vengeance, it's part of the spec, and it is just perfect like it is to have a constant flow of action and damage, there is not real burst in this spec.

 

Sent/Mara does NOT need this, even in the Combat spec, we only need tools to counter roots/snares.

 

We are the flipper ball spec, we just need something to get back on our target, it's how it should work.

 

We jump, they bump/stun/root/kite, we use a tool to get back on target, they use a tool, and so on.

 

The gameplay is and SHOULD stay like this. We need a root breaker baseline or a very short CC immunity, but not more.

 

We just don't have enough tools right now, but be patient, we have a new dev in the combat team, and I feel like he will do the job well.

 

What I'd love to see is making Force push a skill for Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior baseline, with the reset of the jump.

 

We lack a pull/bump/high mobility skill and I would love the Force Push so much.

 

Just exactly what do you think controlling effects (cc) are? If you want to see clueless, look in the mirror. Sure sturdiness costs shadows a pt...its the best point I ever spent in my shadow, and I would kill to have the same option on my sentinel, compared to some of the crap choices we have.

 

Amusingly enough with your retort, movement impairments, bumps, and pulls are all forms of crowd control (CC).

 

 

Which IS the problem with a class that has an effective range of what 4m? We need to be up on our target and with as much CC as this game has, it's easy to just keep us in one place, thereby negating us on the battlefield.

 

Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to point out the incredibly obvious to him. Its hard to have any kind of a discussion with people that don't even grasp the basics.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dyvim

[calamatiesend]

Just exactly what do you think controlling effects (cc) are? If you want to see clueless, look in the mirror. Sure sturdiness costs shadows a pt...its the best point I ever spent in my shadow, and I would kill to have the same option on my sentinel, compared to some of the crap choices we have.

 

 

 

Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to point out the incredibly obvious to him. Its hard to have any kind of a discussion with people that don't even grasp the basics.

 

Sturdiness does not prevent roots or snares! That is his point, we are shut down not by hard cc but movement impairments(yes i know still a form of cc) but giving us a cc immunity like sins/shadows would actually not help much since a kb/root would still render you useless for most of the cd.

 

We need a mobility buff(most people would call this a way to deal with roots/slows or soft cc's if you want to get technical)

[Dyvim]

Sturdiness does not prevent roots or snares! That is his point, we are shut down not by hard cc but movement impairments(yes i know still a form of cc) but giving us a cc immunity like sins/shadows would actually not help much since a kb/root would still render you useless for most of the cd.

 

We need a mobility buff(most people would call this a way to deal with roots/slows or soft cc's if you want to get technical)

 

Right, that is why shadows also have force speed, COMPLETE movement freedom/snare break on a 15 seconds cooldown, SO TOGETHER, they have two of the best cc immunity tools IN THE GAME. Plus serenity shadows can apply Dots from 30 m and from 10m and THEN AOE AND SPREAD THEM FROM 30 METERS. And they are supposed to be melee...PLUS they have TWO SELF HEALS...serenity strike and Battle Readiness...plus they have resilience, force cloak, resilience on force cloak, and stealth in general. HUGE SYNERGIES. JUST like their two cc immunity tools. Together they are amazing.

 

Got a clue yet? Or I can keep going...The best classes in the game now are the ones with the BEST CC IMMUNITY TOOLS, PERIOD. Or look at vigi guards. When I leap in, I have 3 seconds of cc immunity SO MY CLOSER CAN NOT BE DEFEATED. I immediately AOE SLOW. Then sunder and build resource, then *GASP* I actually get to start my rotation and stay in range a lot of the time. This is EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED.

 

I have played sentinel since beta, and I play serenity shadow, vigilance guardian, and tactics vanguard quite a bit. I know what works for these classes and why they are in much better shape than sents, my first love in this game. So learn something, will ya....the clueless noob routine of yours and his are played out.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dyvim

[erdems]

Right, that is why shadows also have force speed, COMPLETE movement freedom/snare break on a 15 seconds cooldown, SO TOGETHER, they have two of the best cc immunity tools IN THE GAME. Plus serenity shadows can apply Dots from 30 m and from 10m and THEN AOE AND SPREAD THEM FROM 30 METERS. And they are supposed to be melee...

 

No they are not supposed to be melee actually they are officially hybrid. look at their dicipline window it said "hybrid"..

 

actually as i play its counterpart "assassin" i know if those abilities had been removed that class would be destroyed because this is its job in a group, not burst damage, not guarding tank, not group heal. that class (with serenity) is for taunt, for root, for slow. every class has a job and those are parts of shadow's job, may be u cant handle it but this doesnt give u the right to complain about it.. that class is not OP. it is what it is spossed to be

Edited January 30, 2015 by erdems

[calamatiesend]

Right, that is why shadows also have force speed, COMPLETE movement freedom/snare break on a 15 seconds cooldown, SO TOGETHER, they have two of the best cc immunity tools IN THE GAME. Plus serenity shadows can apply Dots from 30 m and from 10m and THEN AOE AND SPREAD THEM FROM 30 METERS. And they are supposed to be melee...PLUS they have TWO SELF HEALS...serenity strike and Battle Readiness...

 

Got a clue yet? Or I can keep going...The best classes in the game now are the ones with the BEST CC IMMUNITY TOOLS, PERIOD. Or look at vigi guards. When I leap in, I have 3 seconds of cc immunity SO MY CLOSER CAN NOT BE DEFEATED. I immediately AOE SLOW. Then sunder and build resource, then *GASP* I actually get to start my rotation and stay in range a lot of the time. This is EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED.

 

I have played sentinel since beta, and I play serenity shadow, vigilance guardian, and tactics vanguard quite a bit. I know what works for these classes and why they are in much better shape than sents, my first love in this game. So learn something, will ya....the clueless noob routine of yours and his are played out.

 

lol yikes, so much bad in one post. This just in, different classes are different, and you pointed out why shadows are strong because they are not a true melee class..... they can dot/spread from range.... thats why they are so strong right now. I agree their whole tool set is too much but we should not be pushing to be on their level..... thats idiotic....

 

First off your vigi guard has 4 seconds of cc immunity and DR on his leap and he needs it to set up his rotation and to actually be able to use MS/Ravage and get all 3 hits...... They did not used to have the mobility tools that we do and until recently in this game did not come close to our defenses. Now they are slightly stronger and with a few tweaks we will be right there.

 

Also sins do have force speed root break, last for 2.5 seconds on 15 sec cd if they have specced into all of that. Still is not that hard to keep them at range with roots/kbs if you know how. There is a reason MM sniper comps are competing with double sin comps in 4v4s but im sure thats over your head. Once again we should have similar tools to be able to stay on target and Dark and myself are not arguing against you on that, but we do not need the kit sins have. Its currently broken and they are not really a melee dps with stealth/dot spread/multiple 30m rotation abilities......

 

Talk about how our class can change/get better, not this constant rant of my shadow has this so my sent should too, its not fair! whine whine whine

Edited January 30, 2015 by calamatiesend

[Dyvim]

lol yikes, so much bad in one post. This just in, different classes are different, and you pointed out why shadows are strong because they are not a true melee class..... they can dot/spread from range.... thats why they are so strong right now. I agree their whole tool set is too much but we should not be pushing to be on their level..... thats idiotic....

 

First off your vigi guard has 4 seconds of cc immunity and DR on his leap and he needs it to set up his rotation and to actually be able to use MS/Ravage and get all 3 hits...... They did not used to have the mobility tools that we do and until recently in this game did not come close to our defenses. Now they are slightly stronger and with a few tweaks we will be right there.

 

Also sins do have force speed root break, last for 2.5 seconds on 15 sec cd if they have specced into all of that. Still is not that hard to keep them at range with roots/kbs if you know how. There is a reason MM sniper comps are competing with double sin comps in 4v4s but im sure thats over your head. Once again we should have similar tools to be able to stay on target and Dark and myself are not arguing against you on that, but we do not need the kit sins have. Its currently broken and they are not really a melee dps with stealth/dot spread/multiple 30m rotation abilities......

 

Talk about how our class can change/get better, not this constant rant of my shadow has this so my sent should too, its not fair! whine whine whine

 

Do you even play this game? Or a sentinel? Or a shadow? cc immunity is a HUGE part of the reason shadows are so strong right now.

 

So vigi need it but watchmen don't? Ah the cluelessness continues. We shouldn't be pushing to be on the same level with the best classes in the game? You like mediocrity? What a nub. Do you even give a crap about making the class better, or are you just a troll?

 

My point is, in giving examples of why the alpha classes are alpha right now, that it comes down to cc immunity tools. You mentioned snipers...again they have GREAT defensive tools, PLUS RANGED dps - which means a lot of the movement impairing effects that gut melee dps have little to NO effect on them. Do we have to have IDENTICAL ones as other classes? No, but a post leap one, similar to unremitting, since we are all knights and all have this skill, our main closer, called force leap, maybe you have heard of it....so a variation or version of unremitting would make perfect sense. Make it random for us, 1-3 seconds, or whatever. But we need SOMETHING that makes our MAIN CLOSER harder, yes HARDER to defeat, whereas now it is TRIVIAL.

 

There is no bad in my post, just failure to grasp basics and the current state of gameplay in yours.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

No they are not supposed to be melee actually they are officially hybrid. look at their dicipline window it said "hybrid"..

 

actually as i play its counterpart "assassin" i know if those abilities had been removed that class would be destroyed because this is its job in a group, not burst damage, not guarding tank, not group heal. that class (with serenity) is for taunt, for root, for slow. every class has a job and those are parts of shadow's job, may be u cant handle it but this dont give u the right to complain about it.. that class is not OP. it is what it is spossed to be

 

I'm not saying serenity shadows are OP, but they are top tier now, and I am sure as hell not calling for them to be nerfed. I am pointing out they work EXTREMELY WELL right now, and part of that reason is a set of design synergies completely lacking in sents/mara's. They are working so well that pvp teams of NOTHING BUT THEM, are very viable. Also a HUGE part of their success are their cc immunity tools, as I pointed out. To argue with those basic facts is pure stupidity.

 

I AM calling for sents to receive tools that move them UP to the top tier, and that is what some noobs here cant handle.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dyvim

[calamatiesend]

Do you even play this game? Or a sentinel? Or a shadow? cc immunity is a HUGE part of the reason shadows are so strong right now.

 

So vigi need it but watchmen don't? Ah the cluelessness continues. We shouldn't be pushing to be on the same level with the best classes in the game? You like mediocrity? What an idiot. My point is, in giving examples of why the alpha classes are alpha right now, that it comes down to cc immunity tools. You mentioned snipers...again they have GREAT defensive tools, PLUS RANGED dps. Do we have to have IDENTICAL ones as other classes? No, but a post leap one, similar to unremitting, since we are all knights and all have this skill, our main closer, called force leap, maybe you have heard of it....so a variation or version of unremitting would make perfect sense. Make it random for us, 1-3 seconds, or whatever. But we need SOMETHING that makes our MAIN CLOSER harder, yes HARDER to defeat, whereas now it is TRIVIAL.

 

There is no bad in my post, just failure to grasp basics and the current state of gameplay in yours.

 

Plenty of bad, but thats okay.

 

We have been making our main closer work since beta without unremitting..... Once again all I see is you crying because your sent is not a sin/guardian. Many of us want our class to be BALANCED not a new FOTM, or overtuned like hatred sins are right now. I see you have all 3 FOTM specs as alts, just an observation. Snipers have good defensive cds? Interesting because they are no where near as good as ours..... It shows you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to competitive balance.

 

We are trying to suggest new ways to make our class balanced and retain what makes the sent unique. Buffing pred/trans to give root immunity/mobility is a front runner and there have been others. Once again since you seem to love avoiding this, we are not saying we do not need some help staying on targets, but we do not need force leap to grant cc immunity. Also in watchmen with shorter cd and no min range you are suggesting they are cc immune 25% of the time........ yeah.......... We do not actually need any hard cc immunity to be viable and strong (maybe on UR/GbtF with utility, but that is it).