Sentinel and Marauder Changes

[Mclyde]

SInce the release we are talking about classes that get too much potential in damage, like Sorcerer, PT, Sins...

As Healers, the only thing that makes yu able to survive without a tank, is that there are classes like Marauders and Operative or Shii-cho Gurdians adept, all thoses classes that yu can easily stun or immobilize while the other are unshakeable.

 

Marauders in pvp have always been hard to manipulate, i'd say that it destined for old hands in pvp. We shouldn't bring them to the same level as the other classes but significantly reduce the other's comfort to produce dps.

[quwone]

When a marauder uses that red bubble why cant i damage him and why does it seem to last like 30 seconds

and it seems like he can use it twice in one fight. Are they that much more powerful then a sentinel

[Skettitangles]

I play Carnage because I like the feel/flow of the rotations so regardless of the 3.0 version of the gore window vs the 2.x versions of the gore window, I'd like any changes that may come to be able to preserve that flow from the timing.

 

Marauders are supposed to be the more mobile of the warrior classes so I reckon mobility is the key. Some reworking of the force camo utilities or the "resource-building whilst under duress" utilities might be the go.

 

Undying Rage could definitely be tweaked.

 

Brooding and Dual Wield Mastery could just be base marauder passives

 

If I had my wish it would be for something ridiculous like a utility that turned force scream into a knock-back which also resets force charge and unbinds it form devastating blast's cooldown (anything for force scream back in the mix really)

[Zadtro]

If you are changing the Marauder Class to MAKE it BETTER, then Great. IF your going to nerf something then Leave it ALONE! I finally Like my Marauder for the first time in 3 and half years. Its my first Character i made and i can finally have fun with him and not feel like he is a rag doll in PVP.

 

I want what you are having

[Zadtro]

(anything for force scream back in the mix really)

 

Yeah, i miss force scream. Why they didn't just increase the damage to the same as devastating blast i will never know. As i have said before, the only devastating thing about devastating blast is how devastatingly bad it looks, scream is almost like the sound you hear that makes you think "there is a warrior about". It looks like a dark side move and that is why it should be put back.

[mdeezil]

if your going to make changes , id like to see all mara/sent builds have the minimum range and cd of FC/FL reduced like it is for anni/watchman as a passive. Also for Anni/Watchman, having to reapply all these dots makes the rotation feel " clunky". Sorcs got an ability that allows them to only have to apply affliction once, then their other abilities automatically refresh its duration. If your plan is to keep us in a dot oriented play style then we need an ability like that so that we're not constantly watching our targets debuff bar to see if our dots have fallen off. We apply force rend/melt once and then Vicious Slash, Annihilate, or TST resfresh FR to its full duration. For Carn/Combat something's gotta be done with the gore window. either making it longer and reducing some damage from execute, or make a slaughter proced VT within a gore window increase the gore duration by 1 second.

[Mythurin]

I think we certainly need Crippling Throw back in its place as it were. If not then how about when Slaughter Procs make Vicious Throw a root and make it an auto Crit of XX%.

 

I still do not like the 3s Gore/Precision window as there is not much that can be done in that window. With the right amount of Alacrity you can barely squeeze in DB, DST and VT on Slaughter Proc. Very tight window. I stopped using Ravage altogether if I don't have Berserk up for a Gore window.

 

And yes, Massacre outside of all this is truly boring. Carnage/Combat Skill Tree has lost its unique abilities and become too plain.

 

-

[DynamiCtagez]

I think we certainly need Crippling Throw back in its place as it were. If not then how about when Slaughter Procs make Vicious Throw a root and make it an auto Crit of XX%.

 

I still do not like the 3s Gore/Precision window as there is not much that can be done in that window. With the right amount of Alacrity you can barely squeeze in DB, DST and VT on Slaughter Proc. Very tight window. I stopped using Ravage altogether if I don't have Berserk up for a Gore window.

 

And yes, Massacre outside of all this is truly boring. Carnage/Combat Skill Tree has lost its unique abilities and become too plain.

 

-

 

We need the charge system that was mentioned in a dev post last year. Gore should give like 5 charges, Ravage and Force Scream each take 2 charges, any other ability takes 1. Let these chages last long enough so we can still use them after one knockback or something. And yes, the Finisher proc should also apply a root.

 

We should get additional utility against kiting/roots in the utlitiy tiers and some of the less useful stuff there should become a passive (like Defensive Forms or Contemplation).

Transcendence should give immunity to roots (which would force use to choose between dmg and utility though) and Force Charge should give a short window of immunity against movement impairing effects, or get a CD reduction everytime we get impaired. Or being usably while rooted.

 

Ravage should be castable while moving, to give the class more of a fluent feeling. Would still be easily countered.

 

Anni/Watchman should get the 2% healing back and something needs to be done to the rotation.

 

Undying Rage should go back to its old form.

Edited January 20, 2015 by DynamiCtagez

[Zadtro]

An idea has just come to me about force leap. How about there is a utility to lower its cooldown and reduce its minimum range at the same time, something like:

 

If your movement is impaired or you are stunned, the active cooldown of force leap is reduced by 1sec and minimum range of force leap/charge is reduced by 2 meters (This effect may only occur once a second and can only stack up to 5 times).

 

I would prefer a predation on a cooldown with freedom to movement impairing effects throughout its duration but i doubt they will give us this.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

We need the charge system that was mentioned in a dev post last year. Gore should give like 5 charges, Ravage and Force Scream each take 2 charges, any other ability takes 1. Let these chages last long enough so we can still use them after one knockback or something. And yes, the Finisher proc should also apply a root.

 

We should get additional utility against kiting/roots in the utlitiy tiers and some of the less useful stuff there should become a passive (like Defensive Forms or Contemplation).

Transcendence should give immunity to roots (which would force use to choose between dmg and utility though) and Force Charge should give a short window of immunity against movement impairing effects, or get a CD reduction everytime we get impaired. Or being usably while rooted.

 

Ravage should be castable while moving, to give the class more of a fluent feeling. Would still be easily countered.

 

Anni/Watchman should get the 2% healing back and something needs to be done to the rotation.

 

Undying Rage should go back to its old form.

 

I'd better like to see the stacks system this way :

 

Precision/Gore could become a 3 stacks buff with a 6? seconds timer.

 

You lose 1 stack when using any damaging skill, and 2 stacks during the use of Master Strike/Ravage (first stack on the first hit and second stack on the last hit).

 

The buff timer and the skill CD don't trigger as long as you don't lose the first stack by using a damaging skill.

 

This would help us using our window correctly, as well as Master Strike/Ravage. Enemy players would have to think twice before stunning us, bumping us or escape during our Master Strike/Ravage + Precision/Gore stacks, but there would still be a way to shut our burst down.

The window system is now too easy to shut down or counter, and this mechanic seems fun, complete and fair to me.

Edited January 20, 2015 by DarkNecroCrusher

[K_osss]

I actually don't mind the time window approach because it makes alacrity and zen more meaningful. I wouldn't mind tools to help with stunlock and mobility though. Definitely agree with you there.

[Darth_Sennin]

I actually don't mind the time window approach because it makes alacrity and zen more meaningful. I wouldn't mind tools to help with stunlock and mobility though. Definitely agree with you there.

 

The gore charges buff is the exact type of tool that helps mitigate the effects of Stun Wars. Unstoppable talent from vengeance jugg should come to marauders, along with 15% higher move speed than any other ranged class. Not just the Ataru spec from defensive forms.

 

Personally, I'd love to see anything that Boy Georg Zoeller touched, ie the Fury system, completely go away and revamp the class from scratch, because right now we just have 2 cool lightsabers, and that's it.

[Dyvim]

The gore charges buff is the exact type of tool that helps mitigate the effects of Stun Wars. Unstoppable talent from vengeance jugg should come to marauders, along with 15% higher move speed than any other ranged class. Not just the Ataru spec from defensive forms.

 

Personally, I'd love to see anything that Boy Georg Zoeller touched, ie the Fury system, completely go away and revamp the class from scratch, because right now we just have 2 cool lightsabers, and that's it.

 

SO well said, that guy was a total idiot. It was painful reading his posts and lack of design skill.

[Emperor-Norton]

No it isn't. The cc palooza in pvp we have to deal with is overkill. And jugs/guards have force push...instant reset, instant force leap, instant cc immunity, again.

 

Sins and shadows have another ability that makes force speed have a shorter cd AND remove impairing affects...so paired with the 12 second immunity on a 2min cd, it is a hella nicer combination than anything we have...

 

Do you play these other classes? I do.

Yeah, you know who else has to deal with all the CC? Operatives (while Sentinels do complain and deservedly so, Operatives have also been really **** on in this expansion), and it may surprise you to know there are other Juggs besides Vengeance.

 

And Sentinels have Transcendence they can use every 15 seconds which lasts for 10 seconds and counters nearly all slows by boosting your speed more than Slows decrease, they have Camo which allows them to completely drop out of a fight and make everyone switch targets, and they have a ranged snare that is an AOE they don't need to spec into. Yeah Juggs have a better suite of abilities at the moment, but we are discussing how to give Marauders their own way of escaping control. And giving Sentinels Unremitting makes no sense for the Class and the kind of abilities Sents have. It is far better to flesh out Sentinels, than make Sentinels discount Guardians. Plus please do actually try and make a case for why Sents should have Unremitting other than I played my Guardian and I wants it.

 

Assassins don't have a Leap, and their Stun Immunity is at best available a tenth of the time. And people still consider Deflection to be Op. You want Sents (or at least a specific AC) to have a full CC Immunity up a third of the time. That is just flat out overpowered and there is no way it will happen.

[Dyvim]

Yeah, you know who else has to deal with all the CC? Operatives (while Sentinels do complain and deservedly so, Operatives have also been really **** on in this expansion), and it may surprise you to know there are other Juggs besides Vengeance.

 

And Sentinels have Transcendence they can use every 15 seconds which lasts for 10 seconds and counters nearly all slows by boosting your speed more than Slows decrease, they have Camo which allows them to completely drop out of a fight and make everyone switch targets, and they have a ranged snare that is an AOE they don't need to spec into. Yeah Juggs have a better suite of abilities at the moment, but we are discussing how to give Marauders their own way of escaping control. And giving Sentinels Unremitting makes no sense for the Class and the kind of abilities Sents have. It is far better to flesh out Sentinels, than make Sentinels discount Guardians. Plus please do actually try and make a case for why Sents should have Unremitting other than I played my Guardian and I wants it.

 

Assassins don't have a Leap, and their Stun Immunity is at best available a tenth of the time. And people still consider Deflection to be Op. You want Sents (or at least a specific AC) to have a full CC Immunity up a third of the time. That is just flat out overpowered and there is no way it will happen.

 

I don't give a crap about other classes problems, atm, sentinel has more than enough of its own, and we happen to be in the SENTINEL/MARA forums....go figure. The problems of other classes are no reason not to reasonably address the problems of this class. If you want to talk other classes and keep apples closer to apples, lets stick with vigi guards, shall we? What you claim is overpowered and has "no way" of happening is happening today in just about every single warzone, as vigi guards and vengeance jugs are all over the place.

 

Frankly I stopped seriously reading when you said "it makes no sense for the class...or the kind of abilities sents have...". That is one of the dumbest sentences I have seen in these forums, ever. It is the SAME SKILL. THEY BOTH HAVE FORCE LEAP. They both need to do the SAME BASIC THINGS...close range, build resource, get into a rotation...Except one AC gets a BETTER VERSION OF IT FOR FREE. Really, that is so obvious, it just shouldn't be missed....Its not like guards have this unique skill, that screams guardian only (like guardian leap)...Force Leap is a SHARED SKILL, fundamental to the BASIC CLASS the ac's belong to...The two ACs have much in common and have the EXACT SAME issues when it come to the need to close into melee range and get into a rotation. It has NOTHING to do with making them "discount guardians", instead it is simply making sure they have the same perk filled version of the basic skill that their associated AC has.

 

There is ABSOLUTELY NO credible reason for sents not to have access to the same enhanced version of the most basic skill, force leap, of the basic underlying class. You certainly haven't even begun to articulate a reasonable one. In fact your lack of appreciation for the obvious calls into question any other line of opinion from you.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Dyvim

[DrewFromPhilly]

You clearly don't understand carnage, vengeance, or either advanced class in the slightest.

 

You think a spec entirely designed around cramming as much dmg as possible into a few second long gore window would do equivalent damage to a veng jug within the few seconds of unstoppable. It would just about global players, and would be ridiculously OP. It will never happen. Typing in caps won't change that.

 

Honestly, it sounds like you're overextending with leap, not using force camo or any marauder DCD, being globaled, and then coming on here to complain because leap -> gore -> ravage doesn't work against players who actually know what they're doing.

 

Marauder's are not perfect atm, but putting then off the charts in the other direction isn't the solution

Edited January 21, 2015 by DrewFromPhilly

[calamatiesend]

Emp is correct we do not need unstoppable, it is iconic to veng/vig and should stay that way. Many of the suggestions here are good ideas. A little bit more uptime on target is all we need, plus UR/GBtF returned to its normal form. Sure some of the utilities should be optimized/redone but overall a small buff to DCD and a way to intelligently avoid control/roots and increase time on target is all we need.

 

More important is BW/EA balancing range dps vs melee as currently our dps falls a bit short of ranged classes even with 100% uptime. This is a problem to me as I have to both try to chase them in PvP and dodge a bunch of ****/eat AoE's in PvE and ranged does not.

 

My suggestions is still to bring our surge talents back into line with other classes

 

Anni gets a tiny increase on bleeds.....

Carnage gets bonus to Mass and DB, but not VT or Ataru nor do they get a ravage dmg increase.....

Fury actually gets a decent surge bonus and can be decently bursty with the right set up but its sustained and reliance on bezerk is annoying.

 

Or just bring ranged dmg back in line and you can leave all of our stuff alone! Your choice devs

[Skettitangles]

Emp is correct we do not need unstoppable, it is iconic to veng/vig and should stay that way. Many of the suggestions here are good ideas. A little bit more uptime on target is all we need, plus UR/GBtF returned to its normal form. Sure some of the utilities should be optimized/redone but overall a small buff to DCD and a way to intelligently avoid control/roots and increase time on target is all we need.

 

More important is BW/EA balancing range dps vs melee as currently our dps falls a bit short of ranged classes even with 100% uptime. This is a problem to me as I have to both try to chase them in PvP and dodge a bunch of ****/eat AoE's in PvE and ranged does not.

 

My suggestions is still to bring our surge talents back into line with other classes

 

Anni gets a tiny increase on bleeds.....

Carnage gets bonus to Mass and DB, but not VT or Ataru nor do they get a ravage dmg increase.....

Fury actually gets a decent surge bonus and can be decently bursty with the right set up but its sustained and reliance on bezerk is annoying.

 

Or just bring ranged dmg back in line and you can leave all of our stuff alone! Your choice devs

 

 

This. Exactly this

[Dyvim]

Emp is correct we do not need unstoppable, it is iconic to veng/vig and should stay that way. Many of the suggestions here are good ideas. A little bit more uptime on target is all we need, plus UR/GBtF returned to its normal form. Sure some of the utilities should be optimized/redone but overall a small buff to DCD and a way to intelligently avoid control/roots and increase time on target is all we need.

 

More important is BW/EA balancing range dps vs melee as currently our dps falls a bit short of ranged classes even with 100% uptime. This is a problem to me as I have to both try to chase them in PvP and dodge a bunch of ****/eat AoE's in PvE and ranged does not.

 

My suggestions is still to bring our surge talents back into line with other classes

 

Anni gets a tiny increase on bleeds.....

Carnage gets bonus to Mass and DB, but not VT or Ataru nor do they get a ravage dmg increase.....

Fury actually gets a decent surge bonus and can be decently bursty with the right set up but its sustained and reliance on bezerk is annoying.

 

Or just bring ranged dmg back in line and you can leave all of our stuff alone! Your choice devs

 

It is no more iconic to them than force leap is to them...force leap, a basic skill of the parent basic class, shared by both ACs...it is a perk, a free one, on a shared, basic ability. It makes PERFECT sense to have your main, primary closer, when you are a melee, also buy you a few seconds to ACTUALLY get to DO SOMETHING in melee range, instead of immediately partaking in the cc festival. You talk about increases to damage...we don't need damage increases, we simply need more resilience against cc, which is WAY out of control in this game. Then the rest will take care of itself.

 

Its a pvp problem, and the biggest problem with pvp is the overabundance of cc and the disparate, harsher effect it has on melee. A ranged gets knocked back, he still does damage...gets slowed...still does damage...target fruns away, still does damage. Things are different for us. And having our main closer so EASILY defeated is ridiculous.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

You clearly don't understand carnage, vengeance, or either advanced class in the slightest.

 

You think a spec entirely designed around cramming as much dmg as possible into a few second long gore window would do equivalent damage to a veng jug within the few seconds of unstoppable. It would just about global players, and would be ridiculously OP. It will never happen. Typing in caps won't change that.

 

Honestly, it sounds like you're overextending with leap, not using force camo or any marauder DCD, being globaled, and then coming on here to complain because leap -> gore -> ravage doesn't work against players who actually know what they're doing.

 

Marauder's are not perfect atm, but putting then off the charts in the other direction isn't the solution

 

I understand quite well. My position is actually supported by the current state of the game. So lets talk combat, and ignore the need for Watchman to be able to get into its rotation of dots and dot spreading. Combat isn't "globaling" people now the times you get it off without cc, especially when you consider the prevalence of other countermeasures and DCDs in the game. It is a burst damage spec. That means windows of high damage (ok more like tiny little peep holes, atm), compensated for by periods of low damage. So, according to you, getting to actually do what the spec is designed to do, deliver burst damage, is game breaking?

 

So, everytime we manage to get it off, without cc, we are OP and breaking the game? Are you mental? Why shouldn't OTHER classes have to share the same burden we share with getting into range, in getting out of our range? Right now it is far easier for other classes, most of them, to get out of our range, or shut us down, then it is for us to get in range, stay in range, and get into our rotations. The scale of balance there is WAY out of whack. It is FAR more enjoyable to play a vigi guard right now for me, simply because they deal with cc better...they have more tools to get in range and stay in range, and friggin do something when they are in range. That is what it all boils down to...

 

So basically you are saying that a few seconds of cc immunity post leap would be OP? Why, because we would ACTUALLY GET TO USE THE SKILLS we have a little more reliably? We would actually get a shot at getting into a rotation that does the damage the class is supposed to do? Your position is that maras RIGHT NOW are so powerful that a few seconds of cc immunity...that would break the game??? Really?

 

You are totally oblivious to the disadvantages melee have in this game, and the disparate effect the overabundance of cc in this game has on melee versus other classes. Our main closer is a joke to defeat. Slingers defeat it. Sorcs...no problem...jugs...no problem...every single class can trivially defeat our one main ability to close, which we have to do. And most of them HAVE MULTIPLE ways to do it.

 

And zomg, we would hate to have a melee class that actually got to melee instead of being a cc dummy...that would be just terrible...but different. I mean when a dual lightsaber wielder toon actually gets in melee range and starts swinging at you, why would that hurt? Why shouldn't OTHER classes have to share the same burden we share with getting into range, in getting out of our range? Snipers...cant leap to them...get slowed, dps'd....force camo, close, boom knockback...slowed...still cant leap, pop DCDs, if by some miracle you are still alive, and close, swish, scamper, then reset in cover...then dead. Sorcs...slows...stuns...knockback with root...force barrier...fruns....force bubble burst with 3 sec stun....maybe even an instant force lift for laughs. Plenty of tools to evade and dps us from range. Its our lucky day when some of them are on cooldowns.

 

So since the class has been nerfed so many times, why not TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT for a change, and see how it works. Make it 2 seconds of cc immunity, if you are so friggin worried about precision and master strike, or whatever. 2 OR 3 seconds, attached to leap, isn't going to cause the world to end.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Dyvim

[DarkNecroCrusher]

What I'd love to see is a baseline cleanse on Force Camouflage. But maybe it would be OP.

 

Regardless of this change, a rework of the Expunging Camouflage utility could be done.

 

Like X seconds of CC immunity after exiting stealth instead of the cleanse.

 

About the countless roots problem, I think putting the root/slow breaker baseline on Transcendance (but self only) would be fair, with the Fleetfooted/Unbound utility extending it to group members.

 

OR put it back to its old effect (speed + Camo root/slow breaker).

 

Also, the idea of a 30 seconds CD on Transcendance could be a good thing, but only if Valorous Call refreshes its CD and if you have a self root/slow breaker baseline.

 

All of this plus a buff to GbtF/UR and Saber Ward and we are back in the fight.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Addition to Watchman/Anni suggestions:

 

If the proc on Double/Twin Saber Throw stays in, make it also reset DST/TST's Cooldown.

 

Atm you avoid using it unprocced for adds (which I think it was designed for), since it's such a strong single target part of the rotation (and a free one at that), so you can't really afford to miss it on the main target (given how resource starved the single target rotation is).

 

This would leave single target output untouched, since you don't use DST/TST on single target without the procc anyway. So you would use DST/TST on adds unprocced, or if you happen to have the procc when they spawn, with proc. Either way you don't miss out on the next possible proc on your main target.

[calamatiesend]

It is no more iconic to them than force leap is to them...force leap, a basic skill of the parent basic class, shared by both ACs...it is a perk, a free one, on a shared, basic ability. It makes PERFECT sense to have your main, primary closer, when you are a melee, also buy you a few seconds to ACTUALLY get to DO SOMETHING in melee range, instead of immediately partaking in the cc festival. You talk about increases to damage...we don't need damage increases, we simply need more resilience against cc, which is WAY out of control in this game. Then the rest will take care of itself.

 

Its a pvp problem, and the biggest problem with pvp is the overabundance of cc and the disparate, harsher effect it has on melee. A ranged gets knocked back, he still does damage...gets slowed...still does damage...target fruns away, still does damage. Things are different for us. And having our main closer so EASILY defeated is ridiculous.

 

You just lost all credibility when you said unstoppable/unremit is not iconic/characteristic of veng/vig. it has been in their spec/discipline since beta and it is their main bonus to shien form..... Yes we both have force leap.... Sorcs/Sins both have force lightening but use it in very different ways depending on specs/situations. This just in, different classes are different. We can get a buff to mobility that helps us stay on target that doesn't just copy and paste 1 spec of the jugs/guards most iconic move......

 

Everyone knows we need more mobility/time on target. Yes this will up our dps and that will help our damage immensely, but currently if you are allowed 100% uptime on a target, I will still out dps you with my rdps toons. This is a problem since as you showed a rdps can almost always do their damage.... we can not and the devs have stated that our dps is adjusted to account for the fact we cannot always stay on a target. Currently we fall behind with 100% uptime and then get hit even harder when we get kited/have to dodge AoE's/mechanics

[Ubwike]

Hmm... Well how about devs playing Sents and Mara's live, against the seasoned PvPers - you'll notice some of those pesky deficiencies quite quickly. I suggest a lot of solo queue, and perhaps a little prozac at the ready.

 

Well, what does it boil down to for me, first PvP ~

 

Rage was an AoE spec. Now it feels confused, like it thinks it is a single target, but wants to have something to do about AoE attacks, however useless that AoE might be.

 

Carnage was a burst spec. Particularly frustrating in PvP, but it lived and died by its application of its burst. Now it doesn't' feel bursty at all, and i keep noticing that I'm hit far harder than I'm able to hit other things. Ohh yeah, almost forgot - this is in the fantasy situation where I get near the thing I'm fighting. But that dream was shattered anyway, even if they didn't have those powers up, there are enough root breaking mobility boosts out there, that it doesn't matter in the slightest anyway.

 

Anni was never something I really got on with for PvP... So I'm leaving this one alone.

 

All specs suffer from the root and die as well, most people won't burn stuns , knockbacks and roots on the other melee classes due to their immunities, so you eat them all, unless there is an OP hanging round out of stealth.

 

What about PvE?

 

Rage needs its AoE back, duh.

 

Carnage needs its burst back, shock horror.

 

Anni doesn't flow at all.

 

Moving on to DPS - They need some new AAA powers - you've taken away the unique blood thirst that made them so potent, perhaps to give them a little more. A lot of classes also now have an oh **** button, most of these make UR/GbtF look pretty weak.

 

So suggestions. First of all, devs need to stop. Until you've accepted got this one TOTALLY WRONG and stopped blaming anyone else but yourselves for it, you shouldn't touch a thing. That is the start point for this. Part of this is due to the way other classes have been buffed - huge mobility, stun immunity and damage reduction. I feel you've backed yourself into a corner where this will be very difficult to balance, as so many other things have been buffed into being way over the top.

 

Second point, a long time ago the game seemed to operate with 'hard counters'. For example, Snipers killed Mara's, Assassins killed Snipers, etc. This actually worked quite well, and was done in such a way that a skilled sniper could kill a bad assassin.

 

Third, classes are not meant to be identical, lots of moving about at range while casting with spam knock backs and roots isn't helping anything or anyone. Really an extension of the second point, but it feels like the classes are homogenizing, perhaps marauders would be happy if there was an AC they felt they COULD go toe to toe with and expect to win. There doesn't seem to be one at the moment.

 

Taking that into balance - a few of the other classes could probably do with some (significant) nerfs. After that, Mara utilities should be intrinsic, or in the respective trees they came from. You've hurt carnage really really bad taking away what it automatically had anyway.

 

Deadly throw needs to come back. Since we live in the days of ultra high super mobility, it needs some way to stick, perhaps a little like electronet's stopping high mobility powers, or a large amount of damage on being broken.

 

Rage really needs a buff, it has been castrated. Give it back its AoE, there was no reason to take it away.

 

Carnage was always all about the burst - pre 3.0 Carnage wasn't in a bad place. Yes it was as frustrating as hell, and the introduction of high mobility powers significantly reduced its potency, but if you could manage to find someone distracted and out of DcD's, their death was near enough assured, baring a good tank/healer intervening very quickly. That is always what carnage should have been, about the hardest spec to play, requiring very good improvisation, it should not have been changed.

 

Anni, ugh, I've no idea. It performs acceptably, but feels such a mess. Other people have ideas about that.

 

Finally, since Mara's eat every stun - they should have something they can do about it. I'd say something like a 50% or higher damage reduction boost when stunned, perhaps only while CoP is up.

 

This is just my thinking, there are loads of other good potential suggestions here, but unfortunately without making the Mara OP as hell, not all of them can be implemented.

[Dyvim]

You just lost all credibility when you said unstoppable/unremit is not iconic/characteristic of veng/vig. it has been in their spec/discipline since beta and it is their main bonus to shien form..... Yes we both have force leap.... Sorcs/Sins both have force lightening but use it in very different ways depending on specs/situations. This just in, different classes are different. We can get a buff to mobility that helps us stay on target that doesn't just copy and paste 1 spec of the jugs/guards most iconic move......

 

Everyone knows we need more mobility/time on target. Yes this will up our dps and that will help our damage immensely, but currently if you are allowed 100% uptime on a target, I will still out dps you with my rdps toons. This is a problem since as you showed a rdps can almost always do their damage.... we can not and the devs have stated that our dps is adjusted to account for the fact we cannot always stay on a target. Currently we fall behind with 100% uptime and then get hit even harder when we get kited/have to dodge AoE's/mechanics

 

I guess we have a different definition of iconic. To me, an active skill like Guardian Leap is iconic. It is something that, by its function and nature, clearly says guardian, and not sentinel or another class. With all the recent tree simplification and streamlining though, things change. Unremitting is a passive, attached to Force Leap, a skill that is iconic to the JK basic class.

 

I've played a sent since beta more than I have a guardian, but as I recall guards had saber throw long before sents got their twin saber throw at lvl 51 (makeb expansion). So was that just copy and pasting? Or was that a logical addition to a class that needed another ranged skill, one that would logically also have some type of saber throw? So would adding in a passive to adjust mechanics that are woefully out of whack...a PASSIVE...would that be copying and pasting, or again, simply taking a logical step to give a basic JK skill, force leap, the same perks for one build that uses it FOR THE SAME THING as another one does? That answer is pretty clear.

 

Also, it is hilarious to hear you talk about copying and pasting...HALF THE CLASSES in the game are copy/pasted from the other half, with just different animations slapped on top...then you have EVERY AC that shares a basic skill set, say a skill like FORCE LEAP, with it another AC....so actually, IN THIS GAME, different classes ARE NOT ALWAYS or NECESSARILY different. So there, YOU just lost all credibility...lol, because in THIS game more often it is the case that different classes have a twin (sage = sorc, etc.), or have a lot of commonality through a common basic class.

 

Anyway, who knows what the devs will do on this rollercoaster of imbalance, and whether the changes they make will help, hurt, or do both. SO cheers.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Dyvim