MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 One more thing.... even though it does take only seconds to play a slot machine, you're not guarranteed one of the universal crafting materials when you play it AND if they TIERED THE COSTS ON THE JAWA VENDORS like I suggested in the same post....the amount of time and the costs to obtain the higher level crafting material would increase. Like I said before... it's not the slot machines that are broken, its the jawa vendors that need an overhaul. AND.... there's no NEED to fix my posts. You either didn't comprehend my entire post, or you just wanted to poke holes in the part you didn't like. That's okay, I think we're all getting used to that type of closemindedness and the singleminded players. LOL The drops were broken though hence why Bioware changed them. This ( whether the drop rates were broken or not ) isn't really even up for debate, whether you agree with the new drop rates or not the old ones were clearly broken and had an adverse effect on the swtor economy as to what Bioware expects. Now I completely agree that the new drop rates are kind of ridiculous also however Bioware are aware of what they are and I believe at the last cantina event stated they are staying as is thus they aren't broken any more, they just suck as does the slot machine. There are a multitude of better ways the slots could have been fixed from their first incarnation, I've read some rather stupid ideas through to some great ideas and even thrown a few in myself but in the end it all counts for naught as Bioware don't seem to be interested in changing the drop rates again. Really the best idea would have been to never put mats on it and copied the concept of the night life slots from that event and put in BOP prizes ( perhaps from the cartel packs the rep comes from ) with similar drop rates to the original slots based on rarity of the items. Yeah people whinged about the drop rates of the night life stuff too but that was generally from the people who whinge about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krixten Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The whole scavenging for materials is unappealing anyway you look at it! As for being able to sit back and watch tv and/or chat with friends while you play a slot machine...what's wrong with that??? Sure beats waiting for a timer to count down to zero in order to craft something! But, then again, I probably ruffled someone's feathers when I hit a sensitive nerve and called the end game dailies "The hamster wheel of Death" LOL! Plus, why do they even call them crafting skills in the first place, when it takes no brain power at ALL to figure out how to max them out! LOL Let's face it.... whether you watch tv and click on a s lot machine, or get your groove on with your dexterous skills with a mouse, keyboard and/or nostromo/gamepad.... it all boils down to this.... it's a video game! LOL! Some people spend too much time on the hamster wheel and others spend too much money on the game itself, either way... both sides have their prerogatives. Why can't there be a comparable option for the slot machine to be equal to the so called crafting "skills"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krixten Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I agree! The mats should be pulled from the slots! It's a CONTRABAND slot machine, NOT a scrap material slot machine. Besides, in real life, if I played a slot machine AND JAWA junk came spilling out.... I would think the machines regurgitating its working parts and if a casino pit boss were to tell me that the junk was the payout for my credits.... ohhh, I'd leave mad but only after breaking something that looked important! Especially after paying 750 credits a play! LOL!!! I say they need to increase the winning payout percentage, pull the scrap out completely, put a few vehicles, pets, weapons, moods, emotes and dances from the packs that the reputation originated from and then take all the rest of the stuff in the packs and throw it on the cartel reputation vendor at high prices. That way they can just retire those old packs and let them rest in peace! They've been brought back and recycled enough! Time to move on! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krixten Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Ohhhh and there you go Bioware! You'd have your money pit that would pull credits out of the economy for you! LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Some guy on general chat claimed he got 1400 Cartel Certificates and 6000 purple junk. The drop rate was beyond absurd. What Bioware was thinking about when they started at it such an absurd rate, I'll never know. I can imagine one of the biggest reasons to buy Cartel Packs was for the rare Certificates that came in them, that can buy very valuable items that are no longer in circulation, such as Revan's Mask. so why they made it so ridiculously high drop rate on things that can normally only be acquired through cash and not worthless credits, I'll never know. I admit I'm a little peeved I didn't catch the gravy train myself, but if it continued the way it did, **** that would killed sales. Edited February 20, 2015 by Nickious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Some guy on general chat claimed he got 1400 Cartel Certificates and 6000 purple junk. The drop rate was beyond absurd. What Bioware was thinking about when they started at it such an absurd rate, I'll never know. I can imagine one of the biggest reasons to buy Cartel Packs was for the rare Certificates that came in them, that can buy very valuable items that are no longer in circulation, such as Revan's Mask. so why they made it so ridiculously high drop rate on things that can normally only be acquired through cash and not worthless credits, I'll never know. I admit I'm a little peeved I didn't catch the gravy train myself, but if it continued the way it did, **** that would killed sales. most of the people claiming those super high drop rates were lying through their teeth. and will continue to lie. the drop rates were known through magic fairy (DM), which we arent allowed to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) most of the people claiming those super high drop rates were lying through their teeth. and will continue to lie. the drop rates were known through magic fairy (DM), which we arent allowed to talk about. I walked away with 120+ certs and tons of 99 stack jawa scrap, not counting the other stuff with very little time invested. So someone doing it for a few days could easily get to that. Edited February 21, 2015 by Holocron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 they cancelled the boston cantina event to avoid talking about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Maybe those people should exercise self restraint and not open threads they don't care about or feel have passed their usefulness?! How novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muljo_Stpho Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Let's see... The pre-nerf drop rates had 2% chance for certificates (although my own numbers seemed to suggest closer to 2.5%), so theoretically you would get an average of 2 certificates for every 100 tokens you purchased. So if someone was claiming to have milked it for 1400 certs that's 70k tokens that they would have to have purchased. The pre-nerf rates apparently had purple scrap (all Jawa scrap, actually) at 10% (although my own numbers seemed to suggest something more like 12% for green, 13% for blue, and 13.5% for purple), so theoretically you would get an average of 10 purple scrap for every 100 tokens you purchased. So if that claim also mentioned 6000 purple scrap that's 60k tokens that they would have to have purchased. So, basically... Though the numbers thrown out were ridiculous amounts, if the person making that claim set up a macro to run it for them non-stop (which you're not supposed to do) or clicked mindlessly while binge watching multiple whole series of TV shows on Netflix or whatever (and if they invested 30-35 million credits into tokens for it) their numbers might actually be pretty close to what they said. (When bragging about it, they probably rounded off from whatever their numbers actually were.) Then the questions to ask are just how long that clicking grind would take and whether there was enough time before the devs nuked the machine for any one account to churn away at it that much. Personally, I ran something like 500 tokens (250k credits) on my main server and 2000 tokens (1 million credits) on an alternate server (kept records of what I got from the 2000 and that's where my own statistics on it come from) and I thought that that was an awful lot when I did it. (My numbers from those 2000 included 270 purple scrap and 51 certificates. Hmmm, pretend that I had 30mil to spend and way too much time to spend clicking away and those numbers could have been 30 times larger. So that would be 8100 and 1530. So the 6000/1400 guy could have actually spent a bit less on that than I figured.... Ummm, multiply my numbers by 27 and that's 27 mil for 7290 and 1377. Or make it 22 and that's 22 mil for 5940 and 1122.) And then we've got the nuked drop rates with a grand total of a 0.5% chance to win anything that isn't a rep item (that total would have been 45% with the old numbers), theoretically averaging 1 non-rep prize for every 200 tokens purchased (150k credits at the increased token price). Huge swing from one extreme to another. Edited February 21, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Let's see... The pre-nerf drop rates had 2% chance for certificates (although my own numbers seemed to suggest closer to 2.5%), so theoretically you would get an average of 2 certificates for every 100 tokens you purchased. So if someone was claiming to have milked it for 1400 certs that's 70k tokens that they would have to have purchased. The pre-nerf rates apparently had purple scrap (all Jawa scrap, actually) at 10% (although my own numbers seemed to suggest something more like 12% for green, 13% for blue, and 13.5% for purple), so theoretically you would get an average of 10 purple scrap for every 100 tokens you purchased. So if that claim also mentioned 6000 purple scrap that's 60k tokens that they would have to have purchased. So, basically... Though the numbers thrown out were ridiculous amounts, if the person making that claim set up a macro to run it for them non-stop (which you're not supposed to do) or clicked mindlessly while binge watching multiple whole series of TV shows on Netflix or whatever (and if they invested 30-35 million credits into tokens for it) their numbers might actually be pretty close to what they said. (When bragging about it, they probably rounded off from whatever their numbers actually were.) Then the questions to ask are just how long that clicking grind would take and whether there was enough time before the devs nuked the machine for any one account to churn away at it that much. Personally, I ran something like 500 tokens (250k credits) on my main server and 2000 tokens (1 million credits) on an alternate server (kept records of what I got from the 2000 and that's where my own statistics on it come from) and I thought that that was an awful lot when I did it. (My numbers from those 2000 included 270 purple scrap and 51 certificates. Hmmm, pretend that I had 30mil to spend and way too much time to spend clicking away and those numbers could have been 30 times larger. So that would be 8100 and 1530. So the 6000/1400 guy could have actually spent a bit less on that than I figured.... Ummm, multiply my numbers by 27 and that's 27 mil for 7290 and 1377. Or make it 22 and that's 22 mil for 5940 and 1122.) And then we've got the nuked drop rates with a grand total of a 0.5% chance to win anything that isn't a rep item (that total would have been 45% with the old numbers), theoretically averaging 1 non-rep prize for every 200 tokens purchased (150k credits at the increased token price). Huge swing from one extreme to another. 70k tokens, at 3 seconds each, comes to 2.43 days of clicking non stop. we wont get into the huge tos violation that using a macro for that is. while there is time to have done it, humans cant keep awake at that level of concentration that long.add in breaks for bio and eating, clearing bags etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) 70k tokens, at 3 seconds each, comes to 2.43 days of clicking non stop. we wont get into the huge tos violation that using a macro for that is. while there is time to have done it, humans cant keep awake at that level of concentration that long.add in breaks for bio and eating, clearing bags etc. Using 4 machines brings your 2.43 days down to under 20 hours. That is pretty much easily done in one week if you do it for 3 hours per day. That is a pretty nice million credits per hour rate too. Edited February 21, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Using 4 machines brings your 2.43 days down to under 20 hours. That is pretty much easily done in one week if you do it for 3 hours per day. That is a pretty nice million credits per hour rate too. 4 machines is no faster than 2. people used macros to prove this. there is a minimum that it can be brought down to, 3 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) 4 machines is no faster than 2. people used macros to prove this. there is a minimum that it can be brought down to, 3 seconds. Well that's a lie. One slot machine has a 6-second cooldown in between uses. Several machines stacked together means you can move from one to the next and are only limited by the 1.5 second GCD. If you stack 186 alacrity enhancements, you can bring this down to ~1.3 seconds. There are no macros required, either. Pre-nerf, there were posts by people saying they ran the slot machines for quite a while, watching netflix on another monitor. Edited February 21, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 4 machines is no faster than 2. people used macros to prove this. there is a minimum that it can be brought down to, 3 seconds. 3 machines placed around you was the sweet spot. Allowed time to move cursor between machines / next click etc. 4 would involve a macro, 2 was definitely not the optimal though. This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought BioWare would have responded to this by now. Truly awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 3 machines placed around you was the sweet spot. Allowed time to move cursor between machines / next click etc. 4 would involve a macro, 2 was definitely not the optimal though. This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought BioWare would have responded to this by now. Truly awful no human can sit there and make the switch between 3 slot machines for 36+ hours. and they would not be able to concentrate on anything else. Biowart seems to feel if they just ignore it it will go away. that is right in regard to the accounts they lost, but it is hurting them in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought BioWare would have responded to this by now. Truly awful Yeah. It's like they stealth nerfed it or something. Oh wait, no.. They came out and said they were looking at the drop rates, told us they were adjusting it and then adjusted it. I'd be mad too if I saw that the drop rates were making crew skills obsolete then blew my whole paycheck on hypercrates to cash in on the exploit... But I didn't. Because like any rational person I saw that it was going to be nerfed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought people would quit crying by now. Truly awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought people would quit crying by now. Truly awful. yet you keep putting it on the first page..interesting. if you feel the discussion has no merit, why do you keep coming back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banthabreeder Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Yeah. It's like they stealth nerfed it or something. Oh wait, no.. They came out and said they were looking at the drop rates, told us they were adjusting it and then adjusted it. I'd be mad too if I saw that the drop rates were making crew skills obsolete then blew my whole paycheck on hypercrates to cash in on the exploit... But I didn't. Because like any rational person I saw that it was going to be nerfed quickly. There is nerfing and there is adjusting, neither of those were done. What was done was complete annihilation. We just want the percentages of drop rates increased not back to where they were but to an acceptable middle ground. And no exploit was ever involved with this item. It was released exactly as it was programmed to do. Hence the letter from Eric saying so and to enjoy it. Only after a few cry babies whined their disgust at Bioware for impacting on their sales in the GTN from their bots collecting mats did Bioware cave and neuter the slot machine. Edited February 22, 2015 by Banthabreeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought people would quit crying by now. Truly awful. One might think that you'd quit "crying" about what other people post and stop bumping it to the top of the front page. It's almost as if you're secretly the most angry person of all on this matter, and you're trying to stoke people's anger through childish belittlement and goad them into continuing to post more about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 This thread still alive? It's amazing, you would have thought people would quit crying by now. Truly awful. We already know your opinion on the changes BioWare made. I for one love this change since I only ever used the slots for Reputation. Hopefully the next slot machine to roll out has these new drop rates from the get go. So the problem with asking BioWare for some sort of response to (what a fair few) players on the subject of the actual changes made, compared to what was indicated, is...? We already know what you think, and I have no issue with it, if you only want to use the machines in someone else's stronghold, that's fine. So why do you seem to take an issue with what other players want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muljo_Stpho Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 There is nerfing and there is adjusting, neither of those were done. What was done was complete annihilation. We just want the percentages of drop rates increased not back to where they were but to an acceptable middle ground. And no exploit was ever involved with this item. It was released exactly as it was programmed to do. Hence the letter from Eric saying so and to enjoy it. Only after a few cry babies whined their disgust at Bioware for impacting on their sales in the GTN from their bots collecting mats did Bioware cave and neuter the slot machine. Or any solution that would create a non-negligible chance to win anything interesting to entice people to want to use it from time to time. (Nuked version of machine has a total of a 0.5% chance to drop anything interesting / worthwhile for those who already have the reputation maxed. About 1 in 200 spins can be expected to drop something.) Bumping scrap and certificates back up a bit is the idea that involves the least work. Adding different prizes might be a bit more ideal though. If there are other things to win, things that can be bind on pickup / bind to legacy so that they can be fairly common without having that resale factor that made the Jawa Junk and Cartel Certificate drops so volatile, then we would have those as something to hope for (and as something to distract from the heavily reduced chances at a more versatile prize). It might be nice to see this and future slot machines in the game with... * a few different mounts ranging in rarity (all bound to the winner's legacy), they can consider using versions of a couple of the more common drops from the relevant packs as the more common mount prizes and then have something unique (not from the packs, like the walker mount that they already added) as the rarest drop * a "prize ticket" drop (bound to legacy) unique to each machine, with the associated reputation vendor in the bazaar carrying extra versions of their stock that ask for those prize tickets instead of cartel certificates (they'd carry 2 copies of everything to cover both purchase options, and all purchases from rep vendors would continue to be bound to the purchaser) * maybe a few pack-related drops as prizes that can be won directly (may or may not overlap with options available at the rep vendors for certificates or prize tickets, probably better if there isn't much overlap), when it gets to machines for some newer packs ("new" at this time, old news by the time they get around to releasing a machine for it) this can also include some of the stronghold decorations While that would be a lot more involved than just adjusting a few drop rates, I think that would provide a pretty solid basis for the machines that would allow them to be interesting / worthwhile without needing to rely on drops of the magic supermaterials (Jawa scrap) or the universal currency (Cartel Certificate). Instead they pull the associated reputation vendor in as being part of it, and every item sold by the vendor can be thought of as a "prize" through those prize tickets. So we'd have rep items as the common junk prizes, maybe a random gift item lockbox as a "rare" common junk prize (I'm picturing this as containing a gift of any of the 5 grades, not just from grade 5), prize tickets as the common jackpots, a variety of "cheap" items as semi-common jackpots, and a variety of "expensive" items as semi-rare jackpots. We could also have things like the Jawa scrap, the cartel certificate, some random material lockboxes (like the ones available for purchase with fleet comms), a random comm lockbox (can contain a few basic, fleet, or warzone comms), credit boom / credit explosion, and the rarest of the mount drops as the rare / ultra rare jackpots. Or something along those lines. They'll have their own ideas for where things should balance out / how rare certain things should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'd love to see an official response for this finally, but I doubt we are going to get one, regardless of how long this thread rages on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Since this thread is still going (rightfully so): I haven't bought a single pack of the new delivery, because of the slot machine disaster. And judging from the very few packs up for sale on the GTN, the lack of any hypercrate on the GTN the last times I checked and the unusual high prices for cheap stuffz like the pets or title, I suppose that many others didn't as well. I am thankful that BW spoiled my fun in such a way. It saves me a lot of money. And I don't care anymore (which I consider a good thing, because I cared way too much for way too long). Now I only need to be able to take the next step and finally go F2P. Will I achieve that? I hope so. One day in the future. Who would have thought that a stupid virtual slot machine would cause so much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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