The Contraband Slot Machine

[Andryah]

Fix crew missions.

 

That is all.

 

And... you and I have reached consensus LA.

[DarthTHC]

I dont get the same drop rate you seem to. and they are not free. just because you recoup money does not mean free. by that standard crafting missions are free. they are pulling cash out of the economy.

they are not free

 

They are pulling roughly 16,385 credits per stack of tokens out of the economy.

 

But when all is said and done, the Jawa Junk is still free... or you're getting paid to acquire it, even before you merge it with other things and put the result on the GTN for sale.

 

You can try to spin it all you want. The net result of the transaction for the person playing the slots is profit plus a stack of Jawa Junk. There is no reason for any crafter to run a mission ever again, unless the drop rate changes.

[ivanhedgehog]

They are pulling roughly 16,385 credits per stack of tokens out of the economy.

 

But when all is said and done, the Jawa Junk is still free... or you're getting paid to acquire it, even before you merge it with other things and put the result on the GTN for sale.

 

You can try to spin it all you want. The net result of the transaction for the person playing the slots is profit plus a stack of Jawa Junk. There is no reason for any crafter to run a mission ever again, unless the drop rate changes.

 

do you get other rewards besides the purple on a crafting mission? can you sell that reward? how much do you get for the other stuff? crafting missions are free.

[DarthTHC]

do you get other rewards besides the purple on a crafting mission? can you sell that reward? how much do you get for the other stuff? crafting missions are free.

 

From a crafting mission, it might fail so you might get nothing.

 

If it doesn't fail, you get blues. If it crits you get more blues than if you just got a regular success and you get some purples. Every once in a while you might get something else like a schematic whether or not it crits.

 

Can you sell them? Yes, but only to a vendor because the drop rates are so skewed that they are valueless. Blues are so abundant that some people don't think through it clearly enough and post them to the GTN for less than the vendor sale value.

 

And the schematics are all but worthless. There are too few different ones and they return quite frequently. You'll see pages of them on GTN for hundreds of credits per item. Yay.

 

This means you can't sell the blues + schematics for enough to recoup the cost of the mission and make the purple free, especially when taken across all crafting missions, 80% of which do not get you purple materials.

 

So, no, running crafting missions is not at all like playing the slot machines if we limit the conversation to just the cost of purple mats.

 

Also remember there's a time and RNG factor with the missions. You can run a stack of tokens through a slot in a few minutes and be virtually guaranteed 9-12 Jawa Junk, and the other returns will pay for it so it's free.

 

You can run 4 characters worth of Bountiful and Rich Treasure Hunting missions at a cost of over 30k, wait 30-45 minutes, find that you got no crits, and not have enough blue items to vendor to get even a tenth of that cost back.

 

Unless something changes in the slot machines or missions or both, slots are the only rational way to obtain mats that were formerly mission skill mats.

[ekwalizer]

So you can't afford to level a toon to be your own gather or crafter? Are you saying we bought our way to success?

 

This new combat change has been out for two months and people are whining about the prices. It's called supply and demand people, it was very hard to get the mats and people willing to pay MORE get it first. Sorry, this is how the world works. It's not like everyone went out looking to "steal" your money. People with more credits can pay. When they stop paying, guess what......the prices fall. What you guys want is an instant win button for no work.

 

I'm not saying any of what you imply. Personally, I'm loaded. I have 22 toons all over 55, on one server. I make most of my credits selling CM items - and as an added benefit, I have tons of Jawa junk. My point is, where was this "outrage" earlier? The machines didn't break the purple mat market. That was "broken" by including the grade 11 mats on the jawa vendors. The machine simply offers another avenue to obtain them.

Edited January 18, 2015 by ekwalizer

[LordArtemis]

And... you and I have reached consensus LA.

 

Stranger things have happened

[LordArtemis]

So, since I feel the issue is actually the crew missions, not the machine, and I didn't want to start a new thread, I will place my post here.

 

This is a repeat on some of things I have said, plus a few new nuggets and updates.

 

1) Increase all resource payouts by 50 percent.

 

2) Increase crit chance by 20 percent.

 

3) Reduce ALL TIMES by 25 percent...crafting, gathering, the whole nine.

 

4) Give us a reshuffle button to refresh the display of missions in the crew mission UI.

 

5) REMOVE THE FAILURE CHANCE from all gathering missions.

 

6) Give ALL GATHERING MISSION TYPES the ability to crit, not just bountiful and rich.

 

7) Alter Legacy of Crafting I, II and III to give 5% each for crafting crit chance, not just 1%

 

8) Add Legacy of Scavenging perk, I, II and III that gives 5% chance to crit on gathering missions. This is in addition to the suggested 20 percent increase across the board. It will also increase the amount returned from gathering, harvesting and slicing nodes by the same amount.

 

Doing all of this will make gathering and crafting much more enjoyable, and certainly more appealing compared to the machine.

 

Reserve the right to add more later. Might add a suggestion to allow us to queue up to 3 more items in the crafting queue.

[eartharioch]

So, since I feel the issue is actually the crew missions, not the machine, and I didn't want to start a new thread, I will place my post here.

 

This is a repeat on some of things I have said, plus a few new nuggets and updates.

 

1) Increase all resource payouts by 50 percent.

 

2) Increase crit chance by 20 percent.

 

3) Reduce ALL TIMES by 25 percent...crafting, gathering, the whole nine.

 

4) Give us a reshuffle button to refresh the display of missions in the crew mission UI.

 

5) REMOVE THE FAILURE CHANCE from all gathering missions.

 

6) Give ALL GATHERING MISSION TYPES the ability to crit, not just bountiful and rich.

 

7) Alter Legacy of Crafting I, II and III to give 5% each for crafting crit chance, not just 1%

 

8) Add Legacy of Scavenging perk, I, II and III that gives 5% chance to crit on gathering missions. This is in addition to the suggested 20 percent increase across the board. It will also increase the amount returned from gathering, harvesting and slicing nodes by the same amount.

 

Doing all of this will make gathering and crafting much more enjoyable, and certainly more appealing compared to the machine.

 

Reserve the right to add more later. Might add a suggestion to allow us to queue up to 3 more items in the crafting queue.

 

Again, thank you for collecting the absolute worst ideas into one post. The Fail is strong with you.

 

Every single one of those suggestions would make crafting in this game worse than it is *right now* with the GSLotMcSheen. [GSI Slot Machine]

 

The only cure to oversupply is *not* MORE supply.

Edited January 18, 2015 by eartharioch

[RahaylaCora]

So, since I feel the issue is actually the crew missions, not the machine, and I didn't want to start a new thread, I will place my post here.

 

This is a repeat on some of things I have said, plus a few new nuggets and updates.

 

1) Increase all resource payouts by 50 percent.

 

2) Increase crit chance by 20 percent.

 

3) Reduce ALL TIMES by 25 percent...crafting, gathering, the whole nine.

 

4) Give us a reshuffle button to refresh the display of missions in the crew mission UI.

 

5) REMOVE THE FAILURE CHANCE from all gathering missions.

 

6) Give ALL GATHERING MISSION TYPES the ability to crit, not just bountiful and rich.

 

7) Alter Legacy of Crafting I, II and III to give 5% each for crafting crit chance, not just 1%

 

8) Add Legacy of Scavenging perk, I, II and III that gives 5% chance to crit on gathering missions. This is in addition to the suggested 20 percent increase across the board. It will also increase the amount returned from gathering, harvesting and slicing nodes by the same amount.

 

Doing all of this will make gathering and crafting much more enjoyable, and certainly more appealing compared to the machine.

 

Reserve the right to add more later. Might add a suggestion to allow us to queue up to 3 more items in the crafting queue.

Ridiculous suggestion. For an easy material gathering now exists the slot machines, and for complete ruin of crafting they only need to add a slot machine in a mail in the next celebration / anniversary / whatever reason.

 

Even if slot machines didn't exist, still ridiculous suggestion.

[LordArtemis]

Again, thank you for collecting the absolute worst ideas into one post. The Fail is strong with you.

 

The only think I do know eartharioch is that if you express your disapproval lately than I am doing something right.

 

After all, you have expressed opposition to almost every positive change made recently to the game in one way or another....I'd say your opinion is a good barometer as to what should be done for the game....by doing exactly opposite what you advise.

 

I don't know what is going on with you lately but I hope you resolve it soon.

 

Every single one of those suggestions would make crafting in this game worse than it is *right now* with the GSLotMcSheen. [GSI Slot Machine]

 

The only cure to oversupply is *not* MORE supply.

 

Fair enough. I will give you credit, at least you are consistent.

Edited January 18, 2015 by LordArtemis

[DarthTHC]

So, since I feel the issue is actually the crew missions, not the machine, and I didn't want to start a new thread, I will place my post here.

 

This is a repeat on some of things I have said, plus a few new nuggets and updates.

 

1) Increase all resource payouts by 50 percent.

 

2) Increase crit chance by 20 percent.

 

3) Reduce ALL TIMES by 25 percent...crafting, gathering, the whole nine.

 

4) Give us a reshuffle button to refresh the display of missions in the crew mission UI.

 

5) REMOVE THE FAILURE CHANCE from all gathering missions.

 

6) Give ALL GATHERING MISSION TYPES the ability to crit, not just bountiful and rich.

 

7) Alter Legacy of Crafting I, II and III to give 5% each for crafting crit chance, not just 1%

 

8) Add Legacy of Scavenging perk, I, II and III that gives 5% chance to crit on gathering missions. This is in addition to the suggested 20 percent increase across the board. It will also increase the amount returned from gathering, harvesting and slicing nodes by the same amount.

 

Doing all of this will make gathering and crafting much more enjoyable, and certainly more appealing compared to the machine.

 

Reserve the right to add more later. Might add a suggestion to allow us to queue up to 3 more items in the crafting queue.

 

You could do all of those things and it wouldn't convince me to ever run a mission again because the slot machine is still better by far.

 

The correct answer is to remove the scrap from the machines.

 

Fixing the busted mission system is a different problem, it does need to be done, but it's different.

[Halinalle]

The correct answer is to remove the scrap from the machines.

 

200k for one augment? No thanks.

[ivanhedgehog]

Ridiculous suggestion. For an easy material gathering now exists the slot machines, and for complete ruin of crafting they only need to add a slot machine in a mail in the next celebration / anniversary / whatever reason.

 

Even if slot machines didn't exist, still ridiculous suggestion.

 

the only people that benefit from a lower supply are the people looking to get rich off of the mats.

[DarthTHC]

200k for one augment? No thanks.

 

Once supply increases to match demand, the augments will come down as low as 40-50k and still be profitable for crafters.

 

The challenge there is that some crafters might not bother to make the things for only 20-25k profit each. Crafting requires considerable time, effort, and thought, and at that rate of return, many will find it simply not worth it. This is the same reason many crafters don't bother with stims, adrenals, and medpacks now.

 

The correct answer to the supply problem is to fix the mission skills by:

 

1) Giving us all the missions when we open the list or giving us a reload button

 

2) Making the missions take a LOT less time to run. Half would be good. A third would be better.

 

3) Increasing the CRIT chance on missions to be at least 50% when running with a companion with 10k affection and +Crit. You can even adjust the cost of the missions upwards to keep the cost of the mats where it is now. Cost of mats was never a problem, availability was.

 

Do those things and I guarantee you the days of augments selling over 100k are gone.

 

BTW, where did you see 200k augments? Even before this slot machine came out, prices were 125k and lower on my server.

 

the only people that benefit from a lower supply are the people looking to get rich off of the mats.

 

Every crafter wants better, faster, more reliable supply. If we don't have the raw mats to make it, we can't make and sell it.

 

The solution to that is to fix the mission skills though, not to make an item that seems to have been created for CM rep and certificates instead become the only rational way to obtain crafting materials because it makes them free, near instant, and guaranteed.

Edited January 18, 2015 by DarthTHC

[EnkiduNineEight]

Here's a free clue. You don't even have to buy it.

 

The "rich" in this game aren't privileged. They start at the same point as everyone else. There are no silver spoons. There's no daddy getting you into Yale because of his money, then you getting an awesome job because of that.

 

Every single player can make (could have made) all the credits they wanted.

 

They just chose not to.

 

Second free clue inbound.

 

There's no monopoly. Nobody has a death-grip on the market. Because of what I wrote in the first clue, anyone can come on in, start posting their stuff for sale, and that brings the overall cost of everything down yet again.

 

While true at release, this is not longer true. 'Alts' could be seen as next generation inheritors of wealth. The ease of cash earned by a higher level character transferred to a lower level character means that they can progress through to the easy wealth stage of their development faster and with fewer expenses. If you throw in legacy gear and use the same class/stats you further reduce the expenses of leveling/playing the game as a 'new person' and so can swiftly have all crew skills covered and multiple fully maxxed crew skills of the profitable sort.

 

You then create a game economic environment where prices from the general market are set relative the the availability of the money supply. Since you and others who started when you did have significantly more money, the markets prices are set to reflect your ability to consume, not a new persons.

 

So there is a bit of a wealth gap created.

 

Thus the need for effective money sinks. But a vocal segment of the population has been effectively removing any money sink that exists by complaining to the devs about them. So will get worse. In this way at least the slot machine is a bit of democratizer in that it makes obtaining elements for crafting the same for everyone. But it does little to remove currency from those who have already amassed significant resources and thus still set market pricing for non crafted items.

[EnkiduNineEight]

The "concern" is only from a small amount of loud and very self centered people who forgot this is a video game. People that only care about how THEY play their game and how THEY earn credits or craft things, and acting like everyone else should do as they did. People that worry more about everyone else's game than their own and minding their own business.

 

Most the general population of the game could give a rip and just want to have fun and play the slot machine without the childish drama we are reading here. I discussed this with my guild (which is one of the top Guild's in the game) and we ALL found these people's rants and tantrums about the slot machine utterly childish.

 

You are incorrect and by your broad brush accustations you are defining yourself when you use terms like 'childish' etc.

 

Its not just a 'videogame' its a'multiplayer videogame' and as such has a set of systems in place in order to make the game work over many generations of charactters, both new blood and alts.

 

When these systems get pushed too far out of balance, a game becomes less accessible to new blood and then it stagnates and then it dies. Anyone who has had long experience with MMO's (I've been playing MMO type games since DIKU/LP Muds, through MUSH/MUSE/MOO/Etc... beta tested EQ1, DAOC, etc etc etc.... So well over 25 years and counting) has seen many of these conflicts before and they know how they end.

 

I have more in game currency than you, I am sure. I also do not 'play the GTN' game, I craft only to remain self sufficient. I am not looking for a way to protect my own wealth, in fact, my suggestions for the slot machine (which do include nerfing it) include mechanics that would _DIMINISH_ my own wealth.

 

My complaint is not because I am some spoiled child trying to protect my profit margins but because I have seen what 'magic money machines' can do. While the market price for crafted goods may bottom out, the rate of currency flowing into the system will not diminish. This means the money supply will now significantly grow and this mean inflation on all other/non-crafted goods.

 

That's not good for long term growth, acquisition of new players, etc.

[DarthTHC]

While true at release, this is not longer true. 'Alts' could be seen as next generation inheritors of wealth. The ease of cash earned by a higher level character transferred to a lower level character means that they can progress through to the easy wealth stage of their development faster and with fewer expenses. If you throw in legacy gear and use the same class/stats you further reduce the expenses of leveling/playing the game as a 'new person' and so can swiftly have all crew skills covered and multiple fully maxxed crew skills of the profitable sort.

 

You then create a game economic environment where prices from the general market are set relative the the availability of the money supply. Since you and others who started when you did have significantly more money, the markets prices are set to reflect your ability to consume, not a new persons.

 

So there is a bit of a wealth gap created.

 

Thus the need for effective money sinks. But a vocal segment of the population has been effectively removing any money sink that exists by complaining to the devs about them. So will get worse. In this way at least the slot machine is a bit of democratizer in that it makes obtaining elements for crafting the same for everyone. But it does little to remove currency from those who have already amassed significant resources and thus still set market pricing for non crafted items.

 

You're explaining a phenomenon that has always existed in MMOs and has nothing at all to do with crafting.

 

Players with max level characters can apply their max level resources, including wealth, to their lower level characters. A max level character can make more in a few minutes of doing dailies than a new character can make on all of Coruscant. Without ever taking a crafting skill.

 

This game has never needed a credit drain. Inflation never happened over its entire 3 year life.

 

The devs even know this. Recently, they removed a fairly significant credit drain, even as they increased the credit faucet via the Rishi and Yavin dailies.

 

But if you do want to talk credit drains, the biggest credit drain in the economy is the GTN 6% sale fee. 6% of the credits in every single GTN transaction are gone forever.

 

What happens to that credit drain, and the number of credits in the economy, when you make crafting materials free and sellers reduce the prices on the GTN to 50% or less of what they were before?

 

EDIT: Ha, you answered that question in your next post. Nicely done.

Edited January 18, 2015 by DarthTHC

[MandFlurry]

Hey folks,

 

We know that there have been many questions about the Contraband Slot Machine and its intent. Here are a few notes on it:

• The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged.
  
• It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine.
  
• If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS.
  
• We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content!
  

With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun!

 

-eric

 

 

I'm so sick of what it seems to be, Most ppl on these Forums Crying like 5yr olds do saying Every Single Thing that doesn't seem Possible is an exploit. A lot of ppl need to grow up and Deal With Things and let the Devs handle the problems.

 

Instead of being stupid to say everything is and Exploit, ppl should make a /report to CS and let them do their Jobs, because that Is their Jobs. At the very mention of Exploit, ppl can Be Judged Guilty wondering if they will get Banned or have a Suspended Account for something ppl was Never illegal.

 

Ppl not only hurt innocent ppl on the Forums or in-game, but Hurt them and Judge ppl or an unusuall part of the game, Guilty Without Trial

 

Perhaps some ppl should get their account with a strong Warning for Exploited or even a Suspension for the word Exploiting, as it seems that so many ppl want to Exploit the Word Exploit, and maybe make the work a 4 letter word.

 

Now to take some pills so I don't throw up.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I'm so sick of what it seems to be, Most ppl on these Forums Crying like 5yr olds do saying Every Single Thing that doesn't seem Possible is an exploit. A lot of ppl need to grow up and Deal With Things and let the Devs handle the problems.

 

Instead of being stupid to say everything is and Exploit, ppl should make a /report to CS and let them do their Jobs, because that Is their Jobs. At the very mention of Exploit, ppl can Be Judged Guilty wondering if they will get Banned or have a Suspended Account for something ppl was Never illegal.

 

Ppl not only hurt innocent ppl on the Forums or in-game, but Hurt them and Judge ppl or an unusuall part of the game, Guilty Without Trial

 

Perhaps some ppl should get their account with a strong Warning for Exploited or even a Suspension for the word Exploiting, as it seems that so many ppl want to Exploit the Word Exploit, and maybe make the work a 4 letter word.

 

Now to take some pills so I don't throw up.

 

You realize you would be penalized as well for accusing others of exploiting exploits.

[Max_Killjoy]

The Slots are only "better" if you're willing to stand there and click... click... click... click... click...

 

I know -- can I send my companions on Gambling missions? That would be great... "Gault, go play slots while HK, Mako, and I collect that bounty..."

Edited January 18, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[DarthTHC]

The Slots are only "better" if you're willing to stand there and click... click... click... click... click...

 

I know -- can I send my companions on Gambling missions? That would be great... "Gault, go play slots while HK, Mako, and I collect that bounty..."

 

I like that last part, too... "while HK, Mako, and I..." Two pets out? Interesting!

 

Plus if there's anyone who can tamper with the machine to get a better result, it would be Gault. Or maybe T7 but he's too goody-goody for that.

Edited January 18, 2015 by DarthTHC

[Djiini]

So wait, what stops you from doing both? Like, just doing the slots AND having your companions out on missions?

[EnkiduNineEight]

My own solution is lost way back in the mid 20's for page numbers.

 

Reduce rate of drops (can leave token price the same) eg... win percentages on the machine.

Add to the machines additional functionality so that they can reward the player with items from prior cartel shipments with the frequency/odds of the jackpot being directly correlated to the rarity of the item received.

 

Use the Nightlife event as a model/guide for the rate of return for these sorts of items. (0.001 for the Kingpin Rancor, average of over 2,000,000 credits spent to receive reward).

 

So If we have Very Common, Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, Ultra Rare jackpots.

In the 'Very Common' category you include additional tokens for another pull (free spins)

In the Common category you include 'Resource Boxes' which when opened grant the user a number of the Scrap items like 3-8 Green, 2-5 Blue and 1-3 purple per box.

Etc.

 

In each of those categories as well would be a chance to get an item from that previous Cartel Shipment.

 

With odds and rate of return calculated to make this more of a money sink, but still provide a significant enough downward pressure on the materials crafting market/allow more widespread self sufficiency from crafting materials boxes rewarded by the machine.

 

I just see that the rate of return for the machine is too high at present, so by sweetening the 'pot' for your return value at high end you can lower the rate of return at the low end.

 

And people selling the prior shipment drops they get (after maybe unlocking the first item win in their collections) helps draw money out via the GTN transaction fees.

 

I'd just like to see a slightly lower rate of return and a tuning so that the machines are less profitable. Having access to a slot machine at present is close to becoming a necessity because of the absolute ease it brings to the game/crafting/self sufficiency.

[DarthTHC]

So wait, what stops you from doing both? Like, just doing the slots AND having your companions out on missions?

 

Why would I spend credits and wait and do the travel dance to get the right missions just to get a CHANCE at something I know I can get for free, guaranteed, with less time and effort invested?

 

But what's really stopping me is that my competition is using the slots, which makes their mats free, so they can reduce their prices to the point I can't compete profitably if I'm still paying for my mats.

 

Imagine if all of a sudden Ford Motor Company didn't have to pay for metal of any kind. GM, Chrysler, Toyota... nobody else could ever compete with Ford. They would all have to figure out how to get their metal for free, too, or they'd never sell a vehicle again.

[Djiini]

Why would I spend credits and wait and do the travel dance to get the right missions just to get a CHANCE at something I know I can get for free, guaranteed, with less time and effort invested?

 

But what's really stopping me is that my competition is using the slots, which makes their mats free, so they can reduce their prices to the point I can't compete profitably if I'm still paying for my mats.

 

Imagine if all of a sudden Ford Motor Company didn't have to pay for metal of any kind. GM, Chrysler, Toyota... nobody else could ever compete with Ford. They would all have to figure out how to get their metal for free, too, or they'd never sell a vehicle again.

 

Sorry, what I meant to say is 'why doesn't everyone just use slots why is this a problem'.