Neglience Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Because I point out that the rarity of materials is a problem, and point out that gathering and crafting are two entirely different things that certain players like to conflate for some reason... ...you assume that I don't craft for my own use. Interesting. Of course, it's been interesting from the start, the way that people assert that making materials more easily available will make things worse for "crafters". If you craft for yourself you can not be "gouged" at the GTN. And no, crafting and gathering are not two entirely different things. They are strongly related. It would not only make crafting worse, i would go futher and say, it would make the game worse. Edited February 15, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If you craft for yourself you can not be "gouged" at the GTN. And no crafting and gathering are not two entirely different things. They are strongly related. It would not only make crafting worse, i would go futher and say, it would make the game worse. How would it make crafting worse if the materials and schematics needed to craft things were more available? How would it make the game worse if the tools to do content (that is, gear and mods) were more available? Seems to me that there's an unspoken assumption that the people would stop playing the content if they didn't have to do the content over and over to get the mats and schematics and gear that's locked inside that content. If a game treats players like rats pressing a lever for the random chance of a food pellet dropping, instead of making the content itself compelling... then the problem isn't that something comes along and makes food pellets easier to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) How would it make crafting worse if the materials and schematics needed to craft things were more available? How would it make the game worse if the tools to do content (that is, gear and mods) were more available? Seems to me that there's an unspoken assumption that the people would stop playing the content if they didn't have to do the content over and over to get the mats and schematics and gear that's locked inside that content. If a game treats players like rats pressing a lever for the random chance of a food pellet dropping, instead of making the content itself compelling... then the problem isn't that something comes along and makes food pellets easier to get. If getting all the crafted stuff for your fresh level 60 consits of playing a slot machine for 5 minutes, they could also directly sell everything at the vendor for a certain amount of credits and remove crafting. crafting would be nothing more than a mini game. Getting gear is a part of the gameplay for nearly all MMOs. If you do not like that concept, you might consider stop playing swtor or play a game which is build differently. Maybe GW2 or so. I do agree that the game content should be appealing on its own, but getting everything else with no effort is just bad gameplay. Edited February 15, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) If getting all the crafted stuff for your fresh level 60 consits of playing a slot machine for 5 minutes, they could also directly sell everything at the vendor for a certain amount of credits and remove crafting. crafting would be nothing more than a mini game. Sorry, I thought the CSM dropped materials, not mods or gear, and still cost credits for the tokens to play it. Also, I never bought a CSM, they were still unjustifiable expensive at the point they were nuked into near-pointlessness. My hope had been that the increased presence of artifact materials in the game would push the prices of artifact materials down, thus making crating for myself more affordable and less reliant on the separate gathering-mission crapshoot. I never did and never will give a damn about the supposed "economy" of an MMO, or what happens to GTN-PvP. Anything that makes those rare/exotic materials less hard to come by would work for me, the CSM was just one opportunity for that to happen. I'd be at least as happy with gathering missions being less of a crapshoot when it comes to artifact materials, and even having them drop some exotic materials. Getting gear is a part of the gameplay for nearly all MMOs. If you do not like that concept, you might consider stop playing swtor or play a game which is build differently. Maybe GW2 or so. "Go play something else" -- always a very compelling argument. I do agree that the game content should be appealing on its own, but getting everything else with no effort is just bad gameplay. Would still have to get the credits to afford the schematics, materials, mods, gear, etc -- the point is not to make it effortless, but to open up multiple avenues besides the tail-chasing of grind for gear to grind for gear to grind for gear. And those credits would no longer be based on charging other players for items of contrived rarity. Edited February 15, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 If getting all the crafted stuff for your fresh level 60 consits of playing a slot machine for 5 minutes, they could also directly sell everything at the vendor for a certain amount of credits and remove crafting. crafting would be nothing more than a mini game. Getting gear is a part of the gameplay for nearly all MMOs. If you do not like that concept, you might consider stop playing swtor or play a game which is build differently. Maybe GW2 or so. I do agree that the game content should be appealing on its own, but getting everything else with no effort is just bad gameplay. then allowing crafters to sell gear is bypassing a necessary part of the game and must be eliminated. why should a new 60 be able to buy you crafted gear and bypass the weeks of grind? crafting is a mini game. get over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 As I posted somewhere a while back, if they had released it in an even more pathetic state than it is in now, then "buffed" it to its current state, people would be praising them as heroes. I know. It's tragic that two of the recent decisions that have stirred up the forums for a week or two until folk get distracted and wander away have been good ideas just introduced in the worst possible way. If training skill costs had been removed at the early launch pretty much every one would have been happy. If the CSM had been launched as just a way of getting reputation people would have been happy. It's more the fact that there seemed to be no clear plan around their introduction and they were rapid fixes to issues that should have been foreseen. I'm intrigued to see what the costume designer will bring to the mix and if it will reduce the need to craft/ acquire quite so many augments. I rarely run OPs or engage in ranked PvP so blue augments are more than enough for me, and even then only on my main the alts can run the Yavin 4 dailies in the blue 172 Rishi mods without any issue... especially if the companion is geared in the 192 gear that's so easy to get. I've also got my fingers crossed that more reputation only slot machines will be introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahstava Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 1,800+ posts...78,000+ views...and...*crickets*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhaegrant Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 1,800+ posts...78,000+ views...and...*crickets*. Number of posts and views isn't that great an indicator of how important an issue is to the developers, or whether the developers are in a position to comment, especially when the threads start to get inflated by arguments between a small number of participants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Refund, still waiting....Inflation eating heavily into my refund as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogorsmith Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Refund, still waiting....Inflation eating heavily into my refund as we speak. lol, there will be no refund, you recieved exactly what you paid for. You paid $$ for Cartel Coins after that whatever you spent the cartel coins on is your own business. As far as folks who complain about the CSM not being properly tested, how would you test the potential economic impact on the PTS not enough of a player base to highlight the major issues that cropped up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Because I point out that the rarity of materials is a problem, and point out that gathering and crafting are two entirely different things that certain players like to conflate for some reason... ...you assume that I don't craft for my own use. Interesting. Of course, it's been interesting from the start, the way that people assert that making materials more easily available will make things worse for "crafters". some of them might very well be the people supplying credits to the gold spammers. they seemed very interested in shutting down anything that interfered with their cash cow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 lol, there will be no refund, you recieved exactly what you paid for. You paid $$ for Cartel Coins after that whatever you spent the cartel coins on is your own business. As far as folks who complain about the CSM not being properly tested, how would you test the potential economic impact on the PTS not enough of a player base to highlight the major issues that cropped up I didn't spend $$ for CC. I specificly paid credits for the CSM. I just want a refund of the creds. Item recieved is not the same item that was paid for. That simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Wow, people are still weeping over this? Too funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I didn't spend $$ for CC. I specificly paid credits for the CSM. I just want a refund of the creds. Item recieved is not the same item that was paid for. That simple. Well, you do not own the credits nor do you own the machine. You have no right to demand a refund. Besides that, you obviously bought the machine after it was clear, that it is a money printer. Thinks like that change, thats part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I wonder if we can break 200 pages? Let's set a record guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobbi Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Hey BioWare, I strongly suggest you fixing my favorite Contraband Slot Machine or else... DO IT DO IT DO IT and Do it NOW! One of the obvious side-effect for not doing it would be breaking down the Forums by sheer number of related posts. I say we aim for a 1000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I wonder if we can break 200 pages? Let's set a record guys! The forum has a limit to the number of pages in a thread... when it hits it, the thread gets closed and Bioware sometimes starts a new one, sometimes they don't. I've seen in the past they have posted a notice saying "this discussion has run its course and we have decided to close it". I've given up on Bioware ever making good on this mistake, 50 credits says they never mention it again, and we for sure aren't likely to get another slot machine (I'll be shocked if we do, because it will just bring all this back to the surface). I'll never spend another dime on CC, ever... I used to spend $50-$100 a month on CC, but I doubt Bioware cares, it isn't their money anyway, it is EA's money, and EA isn't listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewski Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I wonder if we can break 200 pages? Let's set a record guys! Are you kidding? We would need to exceed 500 pages, and then get it closed and continued in another 400 page thread to get close. This topic is nothing compared to the true monster threads out there.... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215 and then continued in... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=590526 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vradic Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The forum has a limit to the number of pages in a thread... when it hits it, the thread gets closed and Bioware sometimes starts a new one, sometimes they don't. I've seen in the past they have posted a notice saying "this discussion has run its course and we have decided to close it". I've given up on Bioware ever making good on this mistake, 50 credits says they never mention it again, and we for sure aren't likely to get another slot machine (I'll be shocked if we do, because it will just bring all this back to the surface). I'll never spend another dime on CC, ever... I used to spend $50-$100 a month on CC, but I doubt Bioware cares, it isn't their money anyway, it is EA's money, and EA isn't listening. please, you'll be spending money in there, no matter how much you protest otherwise. we all know it, they all know it, you even know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banthabreeder Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 At the next Cantina event, will someone please bring up this issue again with them and ask why they went overboard and destroyed the Slot Machine's drops? Ask, hell beg them, to increase it somewhat. Get the crowd involved. Also inquire about when if any future slot machines will be coming out and if they will provide reputation for different vendors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 At the next Cantina event, will someone please bring up this issue again with them and ask why they went overboard and destroyed the Slot Machine's drops? Ask, hell beg them, to increase it somewhat. Get the crowd involved. Also inquire about when if any future slot machines will be coming out and if they will provide reputation for different vendors. All this has been answered at the last cantina meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 please, you'll be spending money in there, no matter how much you protest otherwise. we all know it, they all know it, you even know it. Forever in motion is the future... but in this case, I've decided to make a personal commitment to myself to never again spend a dime... Easier to do of course once you're wealthy in the game, since you can buy anything you want off the GTN. Already have some of the cool stuff from the most recent pack, all purchased this weekend off the GTN. But I'll never again buy CC... ever... you have my word on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 At the next Cantina event, will someone please bring up this issue again with them and ask why they went overboard and destroyed the Slot Machine's drops? Ask, hell beg them, to increase it somewhat. Get the crowd involved. Also inquire about when if any future slot machines will be coming out and if they will provide reputation for different vendors. I thought about going to the recent event myself... it was close enough to drive... A few reasons stopped me... 1. I prefer to remain autonomous (at least to you all, Bioware of course knows who I am, but doesn't care). 2. I would ask the question, they would give a useless answer, then what? I could ask again, they could again say "we have addressed that". Beyond that, if I was any more disruptive, they would ask me to leave, accomplishing nothing. 3. Having watched the video from the most recent event, it isn't all that interesting to begin with and it sure isn't professionally run, much like this game. So I didn't bother... --- At the end of the day, as others have said here, if Bioware decides to not care, that is their right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarie Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well, you do not own the credits nor do you own the machine. You have no right to demand a refund. Besides that, you obviously bought the machine after it was clear, that it is a money printer. Thinks like that change, thats part of the game. I virtually own them, so I want the virtual refund. Standard retail rules apply, as do theories of economics. People like me won't buy CM items with credits anymore if BW is going to change them post purchase. People like me would have never spent CC/$$ on them in the first place. People like Heat-Wave will never spend CC/$$ for those items ever again because they effectively got cheated out fo their money. Heat-wave will spend creds on them, but for looks only, not for functionality. My request for the refund is about BW's credibility. They introduced an economy breaking item, they hyped it, sold it, made money on it, allowed it to be traded, made a post syaing it was working as intended and led the users to think it was ok, and then pulled the rug out from under them. By not taking the effort to compensate the people left holding the bag, BW killed the credibility on items like this. No refunds of any kind just means that the people who got burned, and some of those who didn't, won't trust future purchases of the sort. Heat-wave won't spend the $$, and I will be more likely to just keep giving my creds to my wife, who is complaing even now that i just horde them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I thought about going to the recent event myself... it was close enough to drive... A few reasons stopped me... 1. I prefer to remain autonomous (at least to you all, Bioware of course knows who I am, but doesn't care). 2. I would ask the question, they would give a useless answer, then what? I could ask again, they could again say "we have addressed that". Beyond that, if I was any more disruptive, they would ask me to leave, accomplishing nothing. 3. Having watched the video from the most recent event, it isn't all that interesting to begin with and it sure isn't professionally run, much like this game. So I didn't bother... --- At the end of the day, as others have said here, if Bioware decides to not care, that is their right. Are you implying going to a Cantina event would make you no longer autonomous? Are they forcing lobotomies on people at these events or have you used the wrong word here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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