Amunra-amunray Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I find that in this matter, yielding to a bunch of people, interested in protecting their virtual credit income; made more important than those who spend real money on a hyper-crate cartel pack to acquire the Contraband Slot machine, appalling! I either want my cartel coins refunded, refund my money, or fix the drop rate for Jawa metals and cartel certificates. The idea a mount drops is like searching for a needle in a RNG nightmare... I find this choice offensive to those who provide real support to this game. I have been a subscriber since I started playing this game over two and a half years ago. This is unacceptable and intolerable and needs to be seriously addressed in a way that is not pleasing to virtual credit deficient (s). This is the repeat of the seeker droid nerf repeated all the same.... with an item though that cost me real money. Fix it....period! Edited January 22, 2015 by Amunra-amunray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 He's just a messenger though. Not shure why he's suddenly become a scapegoat. eric is there to shield that actual devs from any blame. he is paid to be the scapegoat. he is the mouthpiece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatFrosty Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 so now u have nerfed this to high hell the poeple that held off and waited to buy packs until they heard word as to it working as intended or it being broken will they be intitled to a full refund ??? They said they were looking into the Jawa rate drops. If you honestly thought no change would come, you deserve to be parted from your money. Fools are fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderVamp Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 They said they were looking into the Jawa rate drops. If you honestly thought no change would come, you deserve to be parted from your money. Fools are fools. No. What they said was... With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. The Jawa Junk. Nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Friday stream will be "fun" if there's no response/promise of a fix to Machinegate till then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 you know... when I see you lose your cool and Adryah actualy shake head at these developments you KNOW bioware REALLY messed up this time. Yes, this didn't make me very happy at all. The last time I was this upset over a foolish decision was when they charged folks for abilities they already had or had already paid for. That, IMO, was a serious bonehead move....as if they had no idea folks would not take to that very well. Sometimes I think Bioware can be it's own worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 so now u have nerfed this to high hell the poeple that held off and waited to buy packs until they heard word as to it working as intended or it being broken will they be intitled to a full refund ??? No. You were never buying this item directly. You received ample compensation in numerous other items in the pack. In the same breath you were told they were ok to use in their present form you were also wanred that they may be changing. You made a choice to buy the item anyway knowing it might change. There is absolutely no bait and switch involved. additionaly, if you had bought when the announcement was made, you still could have received ample compensation for your purchase in a very short period of time as has been admitted to by Heat-Wave for example whose guild has over 10,000 jawa junk now due to the slots and is likely not the biggest hoarder of mats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 eric is there to shield that actual devs from any blame. he is paid to be the scapegoat. he is the mouthpiece I've said it before, but I bet Eric Musco feels just as blindsided as many players do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfer_Infinity Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 No. You were never buying this item directly. You received ample compensation in numerous other items in the pack. In the same breath you were told they were ok to use in their present form you were also wanred that they may be changing. You made a choice to buy the item anyway knowing it might change. There is absolutely no bait and switch involved. . Many people including myself wouldn't touch cartel packs if it were not for slot machines good rewards. They said specifically what might be changing (jawa junk). Everything else acording to them was working as intended. Therefore they should have not touched blue and green mats, or cartel certificates. How on earth do cartel certificates affect economy?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I've said it before, but I bet Eric Musco feels just as blindsided as many players do. I find this highly likely. I doubt that EM enjoyed providing the news, and also suspect he does not relish the idea of having to have his feet held to the fire on this issue. I feel it may have gone something like this..... EM: The forums are on fire. Folks want to know if the slot machine is an exploit or bugged. Dev: No, it is working as intended. But we will keep an eye on it and make adjustments if needed. EM goes the forums and makes the announcement. Some time later..... EM: Seriously? You really think that the players are going to accept these changes? They are not going to be very happy. Dev: Ok, we will throw in some candy. Later..... EM: I don't think this mount is going to improve things. Dev: Just post it. It is going in as is. Tell them we did some testing and the drop rates exceeded our target values over the long term, something like that. EM: sigh..... Edited January 22, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I bought cartel packs in an attempt to get the slot machine, on the understanding that it would work as it did on release. Then you were far too naive if you thought THAT was going to stay as it was heh. However, this machine should have never been release in the original version, yes. If they would have just released this version, there would not be any QQ at all (well at least not so much ) . They handed you guys a easy mode semi-afk farming money maker and now everyone expects that the machine has to do exactly that (a bit nerfed of course, but only a bit...) Agree entirely. They released a decoration slot machine that does NOTHING and no one complained heh. What is funny is I am STILL waiting for people to tell me how they actually lost on this noting that 1 purple stack will arguably cover your costs. A lot of it sounds like WAH WAH I only made 10 million and was hoping to reach 100 million which was the only reason I bought the packs WAH WAH. . They also wouldn't get a huge cash injection from all the people trying to get it, as most wouldn't care about the useless thing. Instead they choose to bait us with amazing item and when they got our cash, switch the item for something worthless. Therefore they get well deserved QQ and rage. And most people got MORE than they ever would have gotten from cartel packs/hypercrates by using this slot machine for the week that it was as it was. I don't see how anyone who went to so much trouble to get one couldn't have. 1 hours work you'll easily have a purple stack to get back 2-4 million. Anything beyond that is cream ( and the certs, my god the certs lol ). I spent the last few days playing 100K worth of chips a day. Nothing excessive. I used what I got for mats to craft gear for my alts, something I normally don't bother because the cost of purple mats is always so high. Cool, you got your money's worth then, next whiner please. Eric also stated it was working as intended, and wasn't an exploit. So either he has litterally no idea what he's talking about, and should just be ignored from this point foreward, or it was a total bait and switch tactic to get people to buy cartel packs. For some, weird, strange reason, I put greater weight on it being bait and switch as a way for ea/bioware to get more money. It did work as intended, you pushed a button, something spun around and you had a chance of winning a prize. What wasn't correct which he eluded to was the drop rates. Perhaps he should have added in "cartel certificates" there but maybe they noticed that one a bit later on? I find it utterly inconceivable if his post had of said "and cartel certificates" that no would have bought the crates/packs/slot machine. heard word as to it working as intended or it being broken will they be intitled to a full refund ??? That was days ago before the nerf ( a lifetime in the world of generating millions via click n win slots ) so if you waited longer than that that's your bad luck. I either want my cartel coins refunded, refund my money, or fix the drop rate for Jawa metals and cartel certificates. The idea a mount drops is like searching for a needle in a RNG nightmare... Cool, then I want my MILLIONS back for this stupid slot machine devaluing all my cartel certificates I got via packs! The Jawa Junk. Nothing else. Typo's eh? Some times you just gotta think for yourself though, when you are getting on average 3 items that were originally worth 200K a pop give or take for a meesly 50K ( minus the 25K you sell back as trophies ) you kinda gotta think to yourself "this isn't going to last" but thumbs up for human stupidity as always. additionaly, if you had bought when the announcement was made, you still could have received ample compensation for your purchase in a very short period of time as has been admitted to by Heat-Wave for example whose guild has over 10,000 jawa junk now due to the slots and is likely not the biggest hoarder of mats. lmao I really can't take anyone seriously who complains and them/their guild/whatever are sitting on between 200 - 400 million in materials from a stupid slot machine. Many people including myself wouldn't touch cartel packs if it were not for slot machines good rewards. Good rewards? You mean over the top payouts. How on earth do cartel certificates affect economy?! Because some of us spent months collecting them the hard, expensive way via packs whilst you gained more in a few short hours by clicking buttons WHILST making a profit on top of that to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 EM: I don't think this mount is going to improve things. Dev: Just post it. It is going in as is. Tell them we did some testing and the drop rates exceeded our target values over the long term, something like that. EM: sigh..... Some time later ... DEV: Ohhh so THAT'S where that decimal point was supposed to go. EM: F****** idiot, I quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Friday stream will be "fun" if there's no response/promise of a fix to Machinegate till then "Fun" is not the term I think they'll use for it... Unless they cancel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 DEV: Ohhh so THAT'S where that decimal point was supposed to go. Oh. Well this is not a mundane detail, Michael! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I find this highly likely. I doubt that EM enjoyed providing the news, and also suspect he does not relish the idea of having to have his feet held to the fire on this issue. I feel it may have gone something like this..... EM: The forums are on fire. Folks want to know if the slot machine is an exploit or bugged. Dev: No, it is working as intended. But we will keep an eye on it and make adjustments if needed. EM goes the forums and makes the announcement. It is his job... he doesn't have to like it, he just has to do it... and if he is just a mouthpiece and doesn't actually know what is going on behind the scenes, then... he'll take the fall and blame for it I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 While I do not support the way BW handled things with the Slot Machine, I am fairly baffled that a mishandling of a quirky little stronghold decoration has caused this much of a blow-up, with people claiming they've unsubbed over it. Yeah they screwed things up, but they screwed things up in relation to a really minor aspect of the game. Obviously your money is your own, and you can subscribe or unsubscribe on any basis you want whatsoever, but if I was a dev I'd be looking at these threads and wondering what freaking twilight zone I dropped into where this is what has people worked up. Allow me to help you out... I learned a long time ago in business... the customer is NOT always right... sometimes the customer is crazy, insane, out of his mind, looney toons, etc... But while the customer is not always right... they are always the customer... At the end of the day, a business exists to provide a product or service that a customer wants. If the customer is ok with the deal, the business gets money in exchange for that product or service. If not, then the business doesn't.. It really is that simple. You might thing this is nuts (yes, I really did delete my payment info over this), the devs might think it is nuts... but I'm the customer, so it doesn't matter if I'm nuts or not. I've made it quite clear, I want my slot machine back (I'll accept a 50% nerf across the board to the original drop rates, I agree they were a bit much), or I want a refund for the CC I used to buy the hypercrate. It will take one or the other to keep me as a customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderVamp Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Typo's eh? Some times you just gotta think for yourself though, when you are getting on average 3 items that were originally worth 200K a pop give or take for a meesly 50K ( minus the 25K you sell back as trophies ) you kinda gotta think to yourself "this isn't going to last" but thumbs up for human stupidity as always. Heck of a typo from Scrap to Jawa Junk. That actually seems pretty specific to me. Anyone else think it might be a typo, though? Any one? Didn't think so. Guess your stupidity wins out over all. But props for trying to be an antagonistic ankle biter, well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 "Fun" is not the term I think they'll use for it... Unless they cancel it. If I was them, and they do not intend to respond before then and want to leave things as they are....I would definitely cancel it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Heck of a typo from Scrap to Jawa Junk. That actually seems pretty specific to me. Anyone else think it might be a typo, though? Any one? Didn't think so. Guess your stupidity wins out over all. But props for trying to be an antagonistic ankle biter, well done. How is it not a typo? He forgot to include cartel certificates in that text as proven by the fact cartel certificates got nerfed. Are you saying if it said "and cartel certificates" you wouldn't be here crying like a proverbial baby? That you would NEVER have thought to buy the machine that was generating MILLIONS in profit per HOUR for those willing to use it? Also how much did you lose on this deal? How much are you out of pocket by? Honestly? I mean it must be A LOT to warrant some of the vitriol you are showing right? Come on, make me feel for your plight! Make me understand how hard done by you are so that I can apologise and say "wow man, you're doing it tough!" Or are you just crying over spilled milk because you lost your money tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 But I am not baffled at the idea that there are any people who are upset by the change - some people absolutely got the short end of the stick on this development, I've never disputed that and it's the reason I have said I believe BW mishandled it - I am only baffled at the notion that this many people are upset, it's completely taken over the forum with over 20 threads on the subject cycling through the front page. Over 40 threads and growing... Don't mess with people's stuff bought with real money... Imagine that you bought a new car, owned it a week, then the car company decides it has too much power and comes out to your house and takes 50% of the horsepower away and says "sorry about that, tough". Yea, it isn't a perfect example... Maybe a better one is... Paying up front for a service, perhaps 30 days of Internet service, and 7 days in they cut the speed by 90% and say "tough luck", and you can't cancel... It is a rotten way to do business which is why this is drawing by far more anger than past mistakes Bioware has made. This time they touched something that was "Real Money", and is not a good idea... I expect this to be reversed or a refund to be issued, nothing else will keep me as a customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 For some, mylf included in the some, its more of a "FFS, Really?" Type of thing. I was already on a mad at Bioware for incredibly stupid decision making in regards to the end of Mass Effect 3, but tried to gauge SWToR on its own merits rather then bias towards Bioware. Am I angry they nerfed jawa junk? Nope, I am used to gathering my own mats. Jawa mats are a non issue for me. I am unhappy they -said- they were nerfing jawa junk, then nuked everything else associated it from orbit -without- mentioning it. Cartel certificates to buy decos for my stronhold, and to donate decos to my guilds flagship are why I liked the slot machine. I am unhappy they put out the Jaraels tunic with that awful awful bug that makes it look like male characters wearing it are sporting morning wood under the loincloth flap, and female characters wearing are hiding a strap on under it. They are told it exists, ignore the problem, then release the Revanite set, where the tunic and its loincloth have the exact same bug! I am unhappy that for THREE years now the Imperial Agent companion Vector is STILL crossdressing (he wears the female version of clothing, anything with a bra, Vector dons the bra) I am unhappy they pretty much went "Lol whatevs!" To the Ravager exploiters. The list has been growing lately, and its just dissapointing..... That is the other side of the coin... This is NOT the first time Bioware has messed up, it is the end of the road, the final straw... they keep stepping in their own mess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) ..... Edited January 22, 2015 by ZETA_SCORPII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choloe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hey folks, We know that there have been many questions about the Contraband Slot Machine and its intent. Here are a few notes on it: The Contraband Slot Machine is not bugged.It is 100% not an exploit to use the Slot Machine.If you feel the desire to sell access to your Stronghold, that’s totally up to you. As a reminder, do not scam people as that is against ToS.We added the Slot Machine as a fun idea based on the positive feedback from the Nightlife event, so spend those credits to your heart’s content! With that being said, we do hear the concern from many of you around the effects of the Jawa Junk’s drop rate on the economy. We are going to take a look at it and make changes accordingly. I will let you know once I know more. In the meantime, have fun! -eric 2,000 Coins; (Not including FREE Spins): 3-[Cartel Market Certificate][/color][/b] 440-[banned Holovids] 301-[Prohibited Medical Supplies] 105-[Confiscated Artwork] 6-[scrap: Scavenged Scrap] 2-[scrap: Assorted Droid Parts] 1-[scrap: Jawa Junk] You LIED... This was not "adjusted", this was not "tweaked" or "NERFED", it was reduced to "Contraband REPUTATION Slot Machine" - It is NOT the item I wanted and spent MY REAL MONEY for Cartel Coins for.. I used the materials to craft items for myself, my wife, and my guild - feel free to look at my account data!!! I never sell mats on the GTN, I don't sell crafted items on the GTN (unless they are what's left over (Green/Blue) from RE chances)... There was no reason to DESTROY this item like this.... And the fact that you are ignoring the infuriated community about this problem annoys me to no-end... Yet you were all so quick to break out the Nerf-bat... uh... correction.... Nerf Flamethrower to reduce this "valuable" item to a worthless one like the 1-credit deco one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WastedLight Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I find this highly likely. I doubt that EM enjoyed providing the news, and also suspect he does not relish the idea of having to have his feet held to the fire on this issue. I feel it may have gone something like this..... EM: The forums are on fire. Folks want to know if the slot machine is an exploit or bugged. Dev: No, it is working as intended. But we will keep an eye on it and make adjustments if needed. EM goes the forums and makes the announcement. Some time later..... EM: Seriously? You really think that the players are going to accept these changes? They are not going to be very happy. Dev: Ok, we will throw in some candy. Later..... EM: I don't think this mount is going to improve things. Dev: Just post it. It is going in as is. Tell them we did some testing and the drop rates exceeded our target values over the long term, something like that. EM: sigh..... As a person who has been a forum mouthpiece at times in business matters, this is likely true. Developers as a general rule, rarely directly interact with a company's customer base. Many don't want to anyways, and many have trouble being nice and not arrogant and condescending. I've worked with so many of them and saw how much they really don't care about the majority of their work. This was a lazy implementation of a quick fix with bad math. And somewhere, there are some SWTOR devs (is there more than 1 or 2?) laughing their butts off right now not caring about any of this. SWTOR DEVS have pulled an epic proportion of troll on the customer and made the company money. Maybe they'll get a bonus? I never made in game money off the stupid thing or the crates either. They can have all the junk that was in them back as well. I, like many others have mentioned, have pulled my CC info from my account. Loyal sub for over 2 years, cartel coin shopper etc, not even a forum user, but I became one today...You did me dirty with this one. Real dirty. In fact, the lack of response at all from anyone in the entirety of the SWTOR division is quite disgusting. It was fun while it lasted, but now you'll get no more funds from me and I'll maybe play for free or maybe just move on now. While I'm only one person, if many of us do the same it does have an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Maybe a better one is... Paying up front for a service, perhaps 30 days of Internet service, and 7 days in they cut the speed by 90% and say "tough luck", and you can't cancel... Or maybe you buy an apple tree because everyone let you in on ( what was to become common knowledge ) the fact it actually grew money and not apples. A week later though along comes god and say "woops this isn't supposed to be growing money" and instead fixed it so it grows grapes. A week alter god realises he misplaced the decimal point in the godly formula between apples and grapes and fixes said stuff up and the apple tree now produces apples. Here's hoping anyway. Anyone who thinks there is actual legit ground for this machine to go back to the way it was or be in any way "guaranteed profit" are delusional. I've read a couple of idea's on good fixes, 50% of what it was is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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