The Contraband Slot Machine

[Kaerta]

I agree with all the people mentioning "bait & switch" above, but what sickens me the most is that they not only nerfed the chances of getting mats, but also the chances of getting CM certificates.

 

Sure, one could make the argument that the mats were "destroying the economy", but what do the certificates have to do with that?

 

The reputation tokens are nice, but you still need the certificates to buy most of the items from the reputation vendors.

And if BW wanted us to get the reputation so we would buy more packs/hypercrates to get the certificates, they shouldn't have made the drop rate of the certificates that high in the first place.

 

This nerf on certificates has nothing to do with mats "destroying the economy", but with them selling a lot of packs because people wanted the machines for the reputation & certificates. And now that they have their money they're nerfing the drop rate of the certificates so we have to buy even more packs/hypercrates to make that reputation any useful.

 

And the nerf on certificates is not a small one. We're not allowed to post datamined info so I won't, but you definitely no longer get 2-3 certificates on average per stack of tokens. Not even 1 anymore. It takes a lot of stacks now to maybe get a single certificate.

 

Again, I can kind of agree on a nerf on the mats, but the nerf on the certificates only seems to be so we would spend more money on packs/hypercrates.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I wish I could be as optimistic as you are.

 

I believe they screwed up when they released it and screwed up when they fixed it...and I expect it to remain screwed up for the near future.

 

I DO NOT expect them to be smart enough to realize the folly of this change like they did with abilities and removing training cost.

 

Had they released this thing without ANY scrap drops it would have probably never been adjusted in the first place IMO.

 

Optimism breeds optimism.

 

Let BioWare know your opinion without the posturing and I think I should quit rhetoric. Its not beneficial to you or to them.

 

But bear in mind the 'results'. I chastised you in an earlier post because you were posting things based on how you like to play the game and how you feel. I pointed out that those were irrelevant to a game mechanics decision because the mechanics of the item were such that in its previous form it _would_ be abused.

 

Just a small search of these forusm has one poster admitting that their guild has well over 10,000 Jawa junk stored up for their guild and another 3,000 personally. Others were even more dedicated in its use because they could recognize the broken mechanic and exploited it (classical use of the word, using it wasn't a game exploit) to a far greater degree.

 

So, there is now a HUGE glut of materials in the market and it will take some times for these to wash out.

 

I believe though that a rational note to BioWare should have the same reception as the prior rational notes to BioWare had.

 

I think this was an overcorrection. I have a 'hunch' it was overcorrected for a reason and I hope (and offer my voice to) a future additional correction to the slots that bring them into line so that they maintain some of their initial functionality, satisfy the consumers who now feel duped, but also satisfy the game mechanics need by leaving the companion gathering missions as the 'optimal/cheapest' method to obtain purple materials.

 

So

 

My suggestion again:

 

Make the new mount about 5 times as frequent as the Kingpin Rancor drop rate. (so about .005)

Increase the crafting materials expected rate of return so that the cost per Jawa Junk (Purple Mat) obtained is 50-100% the cost it takes to obtain the material through a companion gathering mission.

 

But that's, "SO MUCH MONEY!" you say.

 

I argue that yes, it is quite a bit more than companion gathering, but it is still significantly faster and more convenient than companion gathering and you have a chance to get other things as well. The cost premium is important because companion Gathering needs to remain the optimal method to obtain materials. And 50-100% price premium for the convenience and reliability of slot gathering 'feels' fair.

 

Thanks.

[Quraswren]

This joke? This joke you pay for? So what does it make you if you pay for something you think is a joke? Also might want to refrain from calling the Devs incompetent it's bound to get you in trouble.

 

But I believe the word incompetent would fit perfectly for someone who pays for something they think is a joke...just saying.

 

and that is why I am now working to change that. I paid for something and was told it was working as intended. Then less than a week later it was changed

 

What else can I call it. They sure didn't test it because if they did and still released it the way it was, then told everyone it was fine but then nerfed it a week later does indeed show incompetence in their work.

 

But never fear. I have little intention to support that level of incompetence once it shows it ugly head.

[LordArtemis]

I originally suggested the coin price should be raised to 2000 per. I also suggested that the purple and blue drop rates should be dialed down, the green rate dialed up.

[Neglience]

and that is why I am now working to change that. I paid for something and was told it was working as intended. Then less than a week later it was changed

 

What else can I call it. They sure didn't test it because if they did and still released it the way it was, then told everyone it was fine but then nerfed it a week later does indeed show incompetence in their work.

 

But never fear. I have little intention to support that level of incompetence once it shows it ugly head.

 

In that post they also stated they are viewing on the drop rates and might change them.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I agree with all the people mentioning "bait & switch" above, but what sickens me the most is that they not only nerfed the chances of getting mats, but also the chances of getting CM certificates.

 

Sure, one could make the argument that the mats were "destroying the economy", but what do the certificates have to do with that?

 

Well, considering you could, on average, make about 40k for a single certificate by buying a decoration with the certificate and selling it, they were worth 16 times a Confiscated Artwork item would be. (On average, prices fluctuated by server and demand).

 

So diminishing their odds was reasonable. Likely a bit steep of a drop, but we'll see, like the other materials they probably know how many are now sitting in peoples vaults etc, and they are possibly waiting for this number to change before re-examining the odds.

[Flintfire]

Just bought 99 chips this morning, 1 stack of chips. here are the statistics i have gotten:

 

spent 74,250 credits and prizes were

 

8 confiscated artworks (purple)

 

17 prohibited medical supplies (blue)

 

26 banned holovids (green)

 

all were rep items, when all were sold i made 50,000. No jawa items to be seen, not even green or blue mats, no cartel certificates, though yesterday from a similar stack I got around 4 of them, plus 16 jawa junks (pun intended)

 

So yeah, that is what you get now. a bunch of rep items, so unless you aren't maxxed on rep or really want the walker, sorry to burst your bubble.

[Rasticles]

I didn't buy a boat anchor, but somehow, I ended up with one ....thank you Bioware for the nerfs, now this Slot Machine is useless.

[BuriDogshin]

This. Had it been released like this I would probably not have an issue...I simply would have never purchased it.

And I wouldn't have spent real money on CC's to get a chance at getting it. Now I have 4 monuments to BioWare's ... what? Ineptness or deceit? Either way, it doesn't enhance my enjoyment of the game.

 

TL;DR: BioWare exploited the players. "Working as intended" my butt.

[Arkerus]

This is an industry standard over correction to an in game issue.

 

It happens in every MMO and I am fairly confident we will see a 3rd patch that changes some aspect of the machine again.

 

My biggest frustration is that this happens in every MMO, all the time. Its human nature to over correct but one gets frustrated because you think at some point these project teams would learn to not over react.

 

The machine needed a change. Let's get beyond that. What has been done, if we can take the results posted on the forums as true, is a gross over reaction to the perceived problem.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Arkerus

[BuriDogshin]

Keep it up XXXXX. You know how this ends....

You could just stop responding and push the "Report Post" button. Trolling is actionable.

[Quraswren]

i got my reputation to the top alrdy, so these things are useless.... i playerd it because of the chance for the mount and the jawa junks (can they even be won Oo?)

good for me that i played it enough last week and got more than 200 certificates, will never need to buy packs

 

Right but not everyone did that. WHY? Because BW said it wasn't bugged. Said it was working as intended.

 

Most would think it was going to hang around and not be changed so they didn't spend hours pumping coins into it.

 

They may have a good many certs around but at some of the really wanted items take 10 certs each. That quickly bites into the collection.

 

What this did though is give nearly everyone access to legendary status to a vendor that few had access to. Trouble is they wont have many certs to get the gear. Now BW has encouraged the rest to buy even more packs in the future to get those certs. This point will be hammered home even more if other things are added to those vendors.

[LordArtemis]

You could just stop responding and push the "Report Post" button. Trolling is actionable.

 

Oh, already done. And your right of course. I should stop responding to him.

Edited January 21, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Kaerta]

Well, considering you could, on average, make about 40k for a single certificate by buying a decoration with the certificate and selling it, they were worth 16 times a Confiscated Artwork item would be. (On average, prices fluctuated by server and demand).

 

So diminishing their odds was reasonable. Likely a bit steep of a drop, but we'll see, like the other materials they probably know how many are now sitting in peoples vaults etc, and they are possibly waiting for this number to change before re-examining the odds.

 

So you could sell your certificate for about 40K, while you need multiple stacks of tokens (~75K / stack) to get one? Sure maybe the price will rise a bit again (doubtful because a lot of people will have them stocked up by now), but that doesn't help those who just wanted to use them on the reputation vendor.

 

Revan's Mask (BoP) for example costs 10 certificates and 100,000 credits. With 2-3 certificates on average before the nerf (very modest average), that would take 3.3 stacks, or about 165K. Now it will cost about 40 times that, which makes the reputation vendors useless (the BoE mask is cheaper) UNLESS you buy more packs/hypercrates with REAL money. And even then, it might just be cheaper to buy the mask from the GTN instead of buying multiple hypercrates and hoping for enough certificates.

 

And here's the kicker, you can't buy certificates from other players, or have other players buy the reputation vendor's items for you like you can with decorations. No, you need to either spend a ton of credits on the slot machine, or buy more packs/hypercrates to get the certificates directly from them.

 

I get that they need to stabilize the in-game economy (credits), but this is just a way to get more money from the CM.

 

Also the people who were complaining originally about the slots were always talking about the mats, not the certificates as far as I know. Sure the market for certificate decorations may have plummeted as well, but that's a lot more of a niche market than the whole crafting market. And most players complaining were hoarding Jawa Junk because they knew the grade 11 mats would be added to the vendors (or had good reason to believe so). They had a reason to complain because suddenly their investment went downhill. But I'm not so sure that a lot of people were hoarding certificates, because there was no reason to do so. As far as I know there was nothing new on the horizon that would increase the demand in items bought with certificates.

 

Edit: I get that this may have been an unintended consequence, but the fact remains that to get the items from the repuation vendors you now need to buy more packs/hypercrates, which make the whole thing seem like a big bait & switch to make more money on coins. Again, may not have been intended, but it's a consequence anyway. Sure I couldn't get those items before either without buying packs/hypercrates, but I didn't spend 4.4 mil credits on a slot machine before either.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Kaerta

[jankiel]

If it wasn't bugged why nerf it so hard?

[keimox]

Right but not everyone did that. WHY? Because BW said it wasn't bugged. Said it was working as intended.

 

And they also said that they will monitor drop rates and adjust them. Can't u people read? A slot machine that gives out mats? Stupid idea from the start.

[PhlebiacMendax]

Did they reduce the chance of getting a prize at all? The day I first got my machine I put in 20 coins to see how it went and I got 3 jawa junk (that was the most notable forgot the rest). Just put in another 20 coins to see the difference. Obviously no jawa junk but what really struck me was I only got 6 things total. 6 out of 20

 

Maybe I'm just remembering wrong but this seems like a big spike in not getting anything over what it used to be.

[ron_harmeling]

These are beyond opinions. You have the same people "complaining" for a week about the slots. They make a change and these same people are now "complaining " about the changes that were forced because of their original "complaining". How can you not see how ridiculous that is?

 

It's also the same people who "complaine" about every other hot topic...skill tree, training cost, ect ect ect it's never ending. I'm just here to point out how ridiculous it is...don't like it? Too bad...

 

Now is it ridiculous ? I don't think so. People are complaining about this stuff because they have a valid reason to do so.

 

Skill training being free ? After robbing some of us for a week out of millions of credits -> Valid complain, since people that pre-ordered got disadvantaged.

 

Machines being nerfed to a point being useless ? We paid real life money for a product that got from super OP to a piece of useless junk. Hence : -> Valid complaint.

 

If you find it ridiculous / unwarranted to complain, then don't read it. And hell, don't bother to react to it with these non-arguments.

[Justbee]

If it wasn't bugged why nerf it so hard?

 

This Nerf tells you "Hey, we are unable to stop macro- and botusers from using that slot machine. Cartell Zerts were way to often, we wanna sell more crates."

 

And so they nerfed it from funny way to make some money down to, complete useless junk. Even the walker mount bring back any fun, there would have been so many other solutions like adding all factions, or a daily play limit per legacy of 1 stack.

but they prefer nerfing it to death, making it worthless. and i bet they old a ******** of extra hypercrates due to this machine. so they made their money out of it.....

[Neglience]

This Nerf tells you "Hey, we are unable to stop macro- and botusers from using that slot machine. Cartell Zerts were way to often, we wanna sell more crates."

 

And so they nerfed it from funny way to make some money down to, complete useless junk. Even the walker mount bring back any fun, there would have been so many other solutions like adding all factions, or a daily play limit per legacy of 1 stack.

but they prefer nerfing it to death, making it worthless. and i bet they old a ******** of extra hypercrates due to this machine. so they made their money out of it.....

 

Yea the machine was so fun, that players were using it semi-afk while watching tv or doing whatever. all that fun...

[ron_harmeling]

In that post they also stated they are viewing on the drop rates and might change them.

 

Big difference between a tweak to make them less frequent and making them almost none existent.

After saying they would "look into it" and "working as intended" the nerf they applied is completely over the top.

[Kenzoh]

I don't post on these forums often, but this is pretty bad, guys. Like, borderline bait and switch level illegal bad. I feel horrible for Musco, who's going to have to explain that quote in the OP ("it's working as intended, we might change junk drop rates!") with respect to the actual massacre ("jk lol enjoy your worthless machine!"). A nerf was needed, but the thing about nerf is that it's soft. They went at this with an actual, real-life bazooka. Edited January 21, 2015 by Kenzoh

[tdmaha]

Now is it ridiculous ? I don't think so. People are complaining about this stuff because they have a valid reason to do so.

 

Skill training being free ? After robbing some of us for a week out of millions of credits -> Valid complain, since people that pre-ordered got disadvantaged.

 

Machines being nerfed to a point being useless ? We paid real life money for a product that got from super OP to a piece of useless junk. Hence : -> Valid complaint.

 

If you find it ridiculous / unwarranted to complain, then don't read it. And hell, don't bother to react to it with these non-arguments.

 

Always great when I read a reply that tells me not to read or reply in the forums. Well forum police man I will post and reply to whatever I want. If you are offended by my post feel free to ignore them.

[Menolley]

Well, I gave it a post patch try. I bought 2 stacks of chips. 70% losing rolls .. nada, zip. Excessive loss rate. 15% replacement chips. I cartel certificate. I assorted droid parts. The rest was rep items .. I sold those and in all I lost 30K credits for 2 stacks of chips with only I blue barter item and 1 cartel certificate to show for it. The slot machine is not nerfed, it is annihilated .. they went waaaay too far to the opposite extreme.

[tdmaha]

I don't post on these forums often, but this is pretty bad, guys. Like, borderline bait and switch level illegal bad. I feel horrible for Musco, who's going to have to explain that quote in the OP ("it's working as intended, we might change junk drop rates!") with respect to the actual massacre ("jk lol enjoy your worthless machine!"). A nerf was needed, but the thing about nerf is that it's soft. They went at this with an actual, real-life bazooka.

 

Illegal! Lol get out the lawyers! Lawsuits incoming! Petitions inbound! Get ready! Yes is love to see you guys try and sue good luck proving you only bought the pack for the slot machine lol too funny you should post more it was a very entertaining read.