Frybert Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 What data was dullfy wrong about? Hi guys. I was the one that sent this to Dulfy and it was probably worded poorly. BW is getting crap for something I said. They didn't exactly say this, I just thought that "afraid" would be the easiest way to explain it. It's more like that they are going to be putting more time and thought into balance future slot machines and any other cartel market items that may have a possible effect on the economy. I apologize to the community and to Bioware for saying this. Edit: The "controversy created by the community" part was all me. But realistically, it's true. From Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The people building up 50+ stacks of Jawa Junk before the nerf were clearly in the mind frame of exploiting the mechanic. Did the vast majority of slot machine users do this? No, I'd say it was just a small minority that actually did it that much. But really, there's no way you can logically say that someone who used it enough to stockpile that much (really almost 5000 jawa junk would take 40000 tokens and 20 million credits), that they are "just playing the game." Their mindset is they are going to EXPLOIT this opportunity for all it's worth. Just because the system is working as intended doesn't mean it's immune to exploitation. Exploitation is all on the user, and their reasons for doing it, not on the object being exploited. That was my point. So yes it was possible to exploit the slot machine, no most people did not exploit it in that context, but some did. But they could have easily stopped this, and still keep the slots some what useable. Make it so you get a max of 500 spins a day, fix the odds, and make the cost of materials the same as missions or a little more. Instead they chose a knee jerk reaction that pissed off more people. Plus remember this, you csnt play the game while using slots, missions you can. So saying people are just going to stand there and not play anything else is disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eartharioch Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 But they could have easily stopped this, and still keep the slots some what useable. Make it so you get a max of 500 spins a day, fix the odds, and make the cost of materials the same as missions or a little more. Instead they chose a knee jerk reaction that pissed off more people. Plus remember this, you csnt play the game while using slots, missions you can. So saying people are just going to stand there and not play anything else is disingenuous. No, they demonstrably could *not* have stopped the exploiting. The math required to balance the machine *after* it was abused is the same math that *could* and *should* have been done before it was released. The original drop rate and the new drop rate show that *nobody* there is actually using math to figure out what numbers to use. Assuming that most of the devs have relatively recent (within twenty years) Computer Science degrees, this is unsurprising -- i.e., I'm not saying that the specific devs involved demonstrated less than average/expected ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) No, they demonstrably could *not* have stopped the exploiting. The math required to balance the machine *after* it was abused is the same math that *could* and *should* have been done before it was released. The original drop rate and the new drop rate show that *nobody* there is actually using math to figure out what numbers to use. Assuming that most of the devs have relatively recent (within twenty years) Computer Science degrees, this is unsurprising -- i.e., I'm not saying that the specific devs involved demonstrated less than average/expected ability. Actually....I really cant argue against the point you made. I guess it all depends on if you have semi competitant developers, which yeah I have seriously been questioning of late. Edited January 24, 2015 by lightSaberAddiCt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Actually....I really cant argue against the point you made. I guess it all depends on if you have semi competitant developers, which yeah I have seriously been questioning of late. Thsi hole thread is good point on the devs being competent because if they had been that then this action would of not of even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LydMekk Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 After the screwup the last weeks with the slot machine etc. the best thing EA can do just now is let this thread die silently. And no, I didn't get easy gear. I'm actually contemplating quitting, not just bc of the slot horror show but there is many small drops which has collected the last months...Founder since beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) After the screwup the last weeks with the slot machine etc. the best thing EA can do just now is let this thread die silently. And no, I didn't get easy gear. I'm actually contemplating quitting, not just bc of the slot horror show but there is many small drops which has collected the last months...Founder since beta. A lot of people are thinking that it because it is one screw up after another i have one prediction there action and post will most likely be another screw up and cause more havoc then good. Because they will either piss of the we want the ban hammer crowd or the we don't want the ban hammer crowd. Either way it will be a disaster to end the weeks long list of disasters. Edited January 24, 2015 by Neoforcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryand Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Skilled programmers don't go into game development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Skilled programmers don't go into game development.lol so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEccen Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Considering they just deleted a post about ban hammers and ravagers i would have to say action will be taken but the hammer will only be for extreme cases IE selling in gen chat. Dulfy deleted a post, or SWTOR community team deleted a post? Was this post made today and then deleted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Dulfy deleted a post, or SWTOR community team deleted a post? Was this post made today and then deleted? No i was called incoming banhammer Were people were talking about what the post musco will be making. How every one that did the exploited needed the banhammer so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Dulfy deleted a post, or SWTOR community team deleted a post? Was this post made today and then deleted? Thread on forums here, went poof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 After the screwup the last weeks with the slot machine etc. the best thing EA can do just now is let this thread die silently. Nah, they need to act on the exploit. I read on Dulfys that they will post here aswell to let the community know what happens if players use exploits. The slot machine has nothing to do with players exploiting, in the long run it will be good for the game if the have a clear policy what happens if players exploit. If not I wonder what will happen the next time someone discovers something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I read on Dulfys that they will post here aswell to let the community know what happens if players use exploits. But who believes what BioWare posts anymore? The once highly-sought DarkOrange text is shameful now. It carries no weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 But who believes what BioWare posts anymore? The once highly-sought DarkOrange text is shameful now. It carries no weight. ToS means nothing to BW, you can exploit whenever you want just get a suspension for a couple days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 ToS means nothing to BW, you can exploit whenever you want just get a suspension for a couple days Of course. They wrote the ToS to bind you, not them. The ToS is 100% Working As Intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Of course. They wrote the ToS to bind you, not them. The ToS is 100% Working As Intended. That's what a lot of people don't understand -- The ToS doesn't really bind Bioware at all. They are not obligated to enforce a single line of it, it's entirely at their whim, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Here is how i predict how this will go down Bw comes down to hard on people. I find out half my guild did the exploit and i be playing with them for well going on 10 years they all get banned. I am like well screw this i not playing this game with out my friend then my friends still left in the guild say i not playing with out the guy that left either next thing you know the hole guild is gone all lost subs. Then there is the crowd that says well if they don't ban every one i am gone these people leave because BW only bans in the most extreme cases and they leave loss of subs. BW is surfing a mind field of epic disaster that will spiral real fast either way. i sit here enjoying the show eating popcorn watching it burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Good to hear. Frankly you should outright ban the worst offenders. And if you really have all that data then there's no reason you can't take each and every bit of a reward those that did use it got. nevermind Edited January 25, 2015 by DarkPharohEclip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Here is how i predict how this will go down Bw comes down to hard on people. I find out half my guild did the exploit and i be playing with them for well going on 10 years they all get banned. I am like well screw this i not playing this game with out my friend then my friends still left in the guild say i not playing with out the guy that left either next thing you know the hole guild is gone all lost subs. Then there is the crowd that says well if they don't ban every one i am gone these people leave because BW only bans in the most extreme cases and they leave loss of subs. BW is surfing a mind field of epic disaster that will spiral real fast either way. i sit here enjoying the show eating popcorn watching it burn. nevermind Edited January 25, 2015 by DarkPharohEclip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well, I am not sure what exploit they are talking about here, but one day I was online and a guildie asked if anybody wanted free **** and I know a bunch of people got invited to a group to get their free ****, which happened to come from that ravagers operation... So, what if this is the exploit that is being talked about here and you were one of those players that had no idea it was an exploit and just thought it was a free christmas gift from bioware? I seriously hope that this isn't the exploit that they are talking about here..... That would be the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractal_Eye Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I can guarantee you that if half my guild is banned for this exploit then I am quitting the game myself. I am sure that is how it will go down for most of the player base and then the game will have a lot less players. Bioware shouldn't have something like this in the game in the first place and when they realized the mistake they should have fixed it right away... How can you ban people for just going into a flash point and getting some freebies that another guild member asked them if they wanted their free ****? I know how it went down in my guild the guild member asked everyone if they wanted their free stuff, and it was christmas so i don't think anybody even thought about this like it was an exploit and just went along with it to get their freebies. I'm sorry, but what? When has BW ever given 'free ****' from an Operation, simply because it's Christmas time? I'll tell you when: never. Anyone who thought that you could join an OPs group after the final boss is dead and collect loot you had no part in helping to obtain was 'free stuff' from BW honestly isn't mentally mature enough to operate a computer, IMO. Sure, BW shouldn't have released such a broken aspect of the game and then let it sit for weeks without fixing it, but, come on. Since the game's beginning, if you're not there for the boss kill, you don't get the loot. And you thought it was okay in this instance simply because it was holiday season? Seriously? (And for any posters that will want to jump on my post, I honestly don't care either way what happens. I didn't partake in it, and I don't care about what other people do in this game. BW will do what they feel they need to do, and it doesn't affect me in anyway, tbh. But to claim that someone thought it was a Christmas gift from BW is just asinine.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry, but what? When has BW ever given 'free ****' from an Operation, simply because it's Christmas time? I'll tell you when: never. Anyone who thought that you could join an OPs group after the final boss is dead and collect loot you had no part in helping to obtain was 'free stuff' from BW honestly isn't mentally mature enough to operate a computer, IMO. Sure, BW shouldn't have released such a broken aspect of the game and then let it sit for weeks without fixing it, but, come on. Since the game's beginning, if you're not there for the boss kill, you don't get the loot. And you thought it was okay in this instance simply because it was holiday season? Seriously? (And for any posters that will want to jump on my post, I honestly don't care either way what happens. I didn't partake in it, and I don't care about what other people do in this game. BW will do what they feel they need to do, and it doesn't affect me in anyway, tbh. But to claim that someone thought it was a Christmas gift from BW is just asinine.) I haven't played the game in a year and just started playing again for the new expac... When guildie asks if anybody wants their free ****, I think that it's because it really is freebies given out from bioware... It was on christmas too, so you might think that is why free stuff is being handed out... I don't do operations all the time.. I am not a raider.. Although I do occassionally do HM or SM ... I'm not saying I partook in this exploit, all I am saying is when i heard about it on christmas day , I assumed it was a christmas freebie of some kind, and alot of the guildies probably felt the same way. If BW screws up like that, who's fault is it? I know I never took advantage of any exploit, not with my knowledge And you assume too much, you assume everyone is supposed to automatically know that when they are asked if they want their free stuff, and then invited to a group and brought into a flashpoint where there just happens to be free stuff, you assume everyone is supposed to know that it is an exploit of some kind. Well, I assume that if you can do something in the game , then it is fair to do. Who would want to miss out on their christmas freebies, if that is what they thought it was? Not everyone here plays the game 24/7 days a week and knows all the mechanics and what is and isn't an exploit. Nobody ever said "Hey there is this exploit where you can get free ****" what I heard was , anybody want their free stuff. IT was on christmas day so you might expect Oh so this is our free christmas gift from bioware. I'm just saying what alot of the guildies have been discussing in vent. Most of them were unaware that there was any exploit, maybe the people that ran the operation knew about it, but it was never explained to any of us that this was an exploit. Just "Who hasn't gotten their free stuff yet?" Edited January 25, 2015 by DarkPharohEclip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I assumed it was a christmas freebie of some kind, and alot of the guildies probably felt the same way. If BW screws up like that, who's fault is it? I know I never took advantage of any exploit, not with my knowledge You assumed Bioware would give away top of the line endgame gear for free when they usually give us a bunch of fireworks? You really have more faith in them then I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You assumed Bioware would give away top of the line endgame gear for free when they usually give us a bunch of fireworks? You really have more faith in them then I do For the past 3 years around christmas time there is almost always some free gift, and what I assumed was when a guildie asked "Who hasn't gotten their free stuff yet" I assumed it was some kind of a christmas gift.... Doesn't matter anyhow, I never partook in this thing, just know of some people that did, who had no clue that it was an exploit. Mostly guys who mainly pvp and don't do raids so know very little about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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