ScarletBlaze Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I do believe that verse means that even though you havent sinned, throwing the first stone is still not right. The verse is from John 8:7 "But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." What this is trying to say no one is perfect and makes mistakes and therefore be careful how you Judge. There is another verse that deals with judiging. Matthew 7:1-5 " Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Which is why the decision needs to be left up to BW. What they do is their decision. They are the ones that are in charge of what should or shouldn't be done and arguing back and forth between everyone does no good except to stir up drama and create bad feelings. Edited January 15, 2015 by ScarletBlaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 OK -- what harm occurred, especially of the sort to justify the calls for permabans and mass deletion of all "tainted" gear and mats and credits? What harm occurred that would make accidentally banning even one innocent player "worth it"? See this is why you and a few other of the "pro" exploiter camp are kind of the most poisonous people in the whole discussion. Labelling anyone you feel a with hunter ( great title for me but others may not like it so much ) and somehow trying to act like they are the ones in the wrong. You now go as far as to imply removing the tainted gear would be somehow unjust? It was illegally gained, if they can easily remove it then they should do just that. Anyone who thinks that is undeserving is quite frankly nothing but a troll and should be pretty much ignored from this point on by everyone. If I miss out on ONE Pug or raid because of gear I don't have that exploiters do that is my gaming experience effected. I don't care how bad YOU think it is, it's not about what you think ( refer troll statement above ). I pay to play the game and my experience has been tarnished by cheaters. The cheaters thus need said gear removed and a fitting punishment needs to be put out by Bioware. That is my stance and if all you have to say is to call people witch hunters and think that somehow justifies any argument you put forward ( you really never manage much of an argument anyway, just childish belittling and trolling ) then you sir are a fool. On top of the raiding issue if my profit from crafting drops by 50% that again affects my game experience due to cheaters. You can hate on the people selling things for a big mark up all you like but unfortunately for you the crafting and sellin for mark up is part of the game and actually working as intended and once someone palying that aspect of the game is effected by a cheater it becomes an issue. Again it doesn't matter how much of an issue you think it is, it matters how much that person thinks it is because they are the paying customer that has been effected. People can try say this hasn't effected anyone all they like but it clearly has. I'm sure other issues have too, those are different topics though. People need to stop using as a means of defence or justification and go make a topic for those issues ( I even bought up the PVP issue in the new season 4 thread today out of interest of all the people saying the PVP win trading is way worse than this, let's see if it gets over 300 pages of replies if it's really that bad or contentious ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I hope you get your wish. I hope they ban every player who may have possibly benefited from this bug/exploit. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them!!!! Not because I think it's fair, but because I think it's funny how little impact you suspect it may have. I'd love to see bans...perma bans at that. I think that would teach a lot of people a lesson... How about we wish gamers just not cheat when they know its wrong as it always has been. Or wish coders could get it right the first time but being a video gamer I know thats never going to happen. Just like I know if you break the TOS and exploit an online MMO, you got a high chance to get banned. If that happens or doesn't I wont lose sleep over. and on another note, if BW is correct in that the number who exploited is small. It will have little to no impact on the game if they are banned. But maybe I should wish they get banned just to see which one of us is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 People can try say this hasn't effected anyone all they like but it clearly has. I'm sure other issues have too, those are different topics though. More or less than the plethora of Ultimate and Elite comms did? Of course it had some impact, but I contend that it was minimal compared to the "exploiting" of old Ops. The old Ops dropping Ultimate coms was a far bigger boon for players...I ran them every week though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeiphoVH Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The verse is from John 8:7 "But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." What this is trying to say no one is perfect and makes mistakes and therefore be careful how you Judge. There is another verse that deals with judiging. Matthew 7:1-5 " Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Which is why the decision needs to be left up to BW. What they do is their decision. They are the ones that are in charge of what should or shouldn't be done and arguing back and forth between everyone does no good except to stir up drama and create bad feelings. Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Emphasis added. Incorrect.... google is your friend. Oh man, that's awesome! As a teacher, I'm going to have that website number one on my bookmarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 IT Crowd 2:3 "People. What a bunch of bas***ds" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ooooo, bible lessons! THIS THREAD HAS EVERYTHING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 How about we wish gamers just not cheat when they know its wrong as it always has been. Or wish coders could get it right the first time but being a video gamer I know thats never going to happen. Just like I know if you break the TOS and exploit an online MMO, you got a high chance to get banned. If that happens or doesn't I wont lose sleep over. and on another note, if BW is correct in that the number who exploited is small. It will have little to no impact on the game if they are banned. But maybe I should wish they get banned just to see which one of us is right. I wish both were true...but neither is. Players will do whatever it takes to get a boost (some, not all of course). Maybe Bioware is right...but I don't believe they are. I don't play many weekends, but I was on during the 'uprising' of it and you couldn't avoid seeing it advertised, asked about etc. It seemed very widespread to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We're using bible verses now? Think we can safely say ... its time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We're using bible verses now? Think we can safely say ... its time to move on. Not yet, I don't think we've actually gotten a solid Godwin's Law hit yet. My forum bingo card is almost full... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Some of us aren't so much 100% OK with it, as we're 100% disgusted with the completely disproportionate reaction from others, orders of magnitude out of scope for what happened and any effects it had on the actual game. See you keep trolling this point but the MAJORITY of people are not being disproportionate at all. I tested the waters on this a few pages earlier ( and if you didn't reply to my question you can do so now ) and posed a simple question to the few who are on their high horses about witch hunters and what not and that was quite simple what was their opinion on of if all that happend was Bioware removed the illegal gear from those that got it? If they were silly enoguh to also put it in other shells then to ease the removal of gear the shell goes too -ignorig how they do it or how hard it may be. This is posed of course that think everyone asking for any punishment is a witch hunter and are acting outrageously. What responses was given? ZETA_SCORPII : "BioWare should apologize and that be the end. The damage is already done, as many raiders have left voluntarily." Pagy: "if that happened to me id cancel my sub and not even use the playtime left on it." ron_harmeling: "They can't do that if you use Cartel Market gear, as you paid (well, someone did) real money for it. Hence, revoking that shell would be a real act of theft. Nah, whether they make a Cheater title or something, or they have to let it rest." ron put forward a reasonable response though I think BW still owns the gear and anything within the game per the ToS anyway. However didn't really answer if removal without the shells seemed fair. The other 2 seem to be clearly trolls on this whole topic imo, no interest in reaching common ground just more or less solely think these actions were justified regardless. So let's take the shells out of the question - does everyone agree that would be at least fair? I just find it funny to see those going around throwing the witch hunter title to everyone even slightly in favour of punishing the cheaters. Like Max_Killjoy - puts it across as everyone is somehow unreasonable in their response but really there are very few people calling for perm bans or anything of the likes. Most people are actually in favour of tiered punishment depending on how much you participated in the exploit. Yet this person will put across that most people are witch hunters, out for blood ,acting outrageously. Really it's the sort of venomous attitude that is making these threads rather spiteful. If you want to single people out as such then do so and back it up with quotes and reasoning, stop trolling and acting like everyone is out of line here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Not yet, I don't think we've actually gotten a solid Godwin's Law hit yet. My forum bingo card is almost full... Its all a plot by the canadian nazi party's dreaded waffen mime division. those guys dont say much but man can they swing a hockey stick! Darth Dymond wins!!!!! EVERYBODY DINK!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Not yet, I don't think we've actually gotten a solid Godwin's Law hit yet. My forum bingo card is almost full... LOL (and I really did).... Fair enough.... For the Don't Do Anything Crowd; "If BW lifts even a single finger to punish even the heaviest of exploiters, they would be no better than the Nazi's leading people to the gas chamber" For the Ban Them All Crows, "Its like Czechoslovakia all over again... Hitler came in and just took what he wanted, and the Allied powers just went for appeasement and stood by and did nothing! Don't let Hitler rise again BW!" Can we be done now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 LOL (and I really did).... Fair enough.... For the Don't Do Anything Crowd; "If BW lifts even a single finger to punish even the heaviest of exploiters, they would be no better than the Nazi's leading people to the gas chamber" For the Ban Them All Crows, "Its like Czechoslovakia all over again... Hitler came in and just took what he wanted, and the Allied powers just went for appeasement and stood by and did nothing! Don't let Hitler rise again BW!" Can we be done now ? Wow...impressively done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Exactly Max...some people have completely lost perspective It's funny because I've seen a lot of you "pro" exploiter ppeople keep putting words in peoples mouth. For example someone wants to see exploiters banend and you turn that into them wanting "Everyone who ever benefitted from this exploit banned" - some going as far as to try and say they were implying the people who bought items off the GTN etc. but never exploited. I hope you weren't implying that in your previous sarcastic post that people are actually implying that? Has anyone actually said that as legitimate point? The only people I've seen say it are the ones trying to make those "pro" punishment look like they are over the top wanting that when really no one wants that . It's funny how some of you people in the defence of the cheaters love to twist people's statements and literally put words in their mouth. Mind you the same people doing this are the same people who fail to actually come up with an intelligent, logical debate to begin with. Not saying that goes for all the "pro" cheaters - just the more absurd ones who think everyone wanting punishment/fixes are over reacting, witch hunters ... you know ... the hungry trolls basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeiphoVH Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 It's funny because I've seen a lot of you "pro" exploiter ppeople keep putting words in peoples mouth. For example someone wants to see exploiters banend and you turn that into them wanting "Everyone who ever benefitted from this exploit banned" - some going as far as to try and say they were implying the people who bought items off the GTN etc. but never exploited. I hope you weren't implying that in your previous sarcastic post that people are actually implying that? Has anyone actually said that as legitimate point? The only people I've seen say it are the ones trying to make those "pro" punishment look like they are over the top wanting that when really no one wants that . It's funny how some of you people in the defence of the cheaters love to twist people's statements and literally put words in their mouth. Mind you the same people doing this are the same people who fail to actually come up with an intelligent, logical debate to begin with. Not saying that goes for all the "pro" cheaters - just the more absurd ones who think everyone wanting punishment/fixes are over reacting, witch hunters ... you know ... the hungry trolls basically. YOU ADDED THE TITLE OF WITCH HUNTER TO YOUR SIGNATURE. How can you reasonably expect people to not label you as such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 More or less than the plethora of Ultimate and Elite comms did? Of course it had some impact, but I contend that it was minimal compared to the "exploiting" of old Ops. The old Ops dropping Ultimate coms was a far bigger boon for players...I ran them every week though. What has that got to do with THIS issue? Anyone going about their usual daily business as usual got comms ... oh wow they are exploiting the system. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeiphoVH Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What has that got to do with THIS issue? Anyone going about their usual daily business as usual got comms ... oh wow they are exploiting the system. Get real. ^ Troll confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drockter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wow...impressively done I somehow feel someone is going to take the post seriously (not you Tux)... I'm waiting for a "How dare you", or "that's offensive" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 YOU ADDED THE TITLE OF WITCH HUNTER TO YOUR SIGNATURE. How can you reasonably expect people to not label you as such? Does droll humour not exist in your universe? I added that to more or less emphasise the ridiculous label some people are putting on others and that it somehow makes the cheating/exploiting "ok" - guess what, it doesn't. If wanting to see justice ( in whatever form it comes ) makes us all witch hunters then a witch hunter I be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) What has that got to do with THIS issue? Anyone going about their usual daily business as usual got comms ... oh wow they are exploiting the system. Get real. You seriously failed to see the connection?! YOU claimed they had an impact...yet 192's were already flooding the market and 198's were easy to get as well. Not BiS of course, but a helluva lot better than 186 crap. Get a clue. Ops are about beating the mechanics, not just the gear you're in. Edited January 15, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Does droll humour not exist in your universe? I added that to more or less emphasise the ridiculous label some people are putting on others and that it somehow makes the cheating/exploiting "ok" - guess what, it doesn't. If wanting to see justice ( in whatever form it comes ) makes us all witch hunters then a witch hunter I be. Do you know the difference between justice and punishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I somehow feel someone is going to take the post seriously (not you Tux)... I'm waiting for a "How dare you", or "that's offensive" comment. inorite?! Better add a smiley!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Its all a plot by the canadian nazi party's dreaded waffen mime division. those guys dont say much but man can they swing a hockey stick! Darth Dymond wins!!!!! EVERYBODY DINK!!!! LOL (and I really did).... Fair enough.... For the Don't Do Anything Crowd; "If BW lifts even a single finger to punish even the heaviest of exploiters, they would be no better than the Nazi's leading people to the gas chamber" For the Ban Them All Crows, "Its like Czechoslovakia all over again... Hitler came in and just took what he wanted, and the Allied powers just went for appeasement and stood by and did nothing! Don't let Hitler rise again BW!" Can we be done now ? Woohoo! Bingo!! Party in the thread! .................................... ........................................................................................ ...... ............................................. ....................... ...................................................................................................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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