Ravagers Exploit Action Update

[Foambreaker]

So anyone who took advantage of it, but not *too* much advantage, is in the clear? Classy. Once again the honest folks are encouraged to join in the next exploit that rolls around so that they aren't the only ones who get nothing.

 

There are usually a tiny number of people who found it and reported it, or found it but never used it.

 

Usually companies don't ban those people.

[Infernixx]

"They can't afford to ban so many"

 

Myth Debunked

 

You expected him to say something to the contrary?

[ptwonline]

- People stating they're founders in every post as if that matters

 

Actually, assuming that they are telling the truth then it means that they are the most dedicated players to the game, and are not short-timers or the locusts who flee every time they finish the current level of content. These are their best customers, and should be very important to Bioware/EA.

 

Of course, that doesn't make their opinion any more right or wrong.

 

- People justifying exploits by blaming the devs as if you wouldn't go to jail for taking money out of an unlocked bank vault

 

Ever break ANY rules? For example, I bet you've jaywalked at least once, or maybe spat out some gum onto the ground. Why did youi do this? Because you didn't think there would be any consequence, and so it becomes the norm to do it.

 

Similarly, Bioware hasn't been banning for exploits before, and so people don't think there was any consequence. Especially when this exploit was allowed to go on for so long on top of previous exploits. No punish,emt? That means people see it as tacit acceptance and ok to do it, even if it is against the written rules. Enforced > Written

 

- People justifying exploits because they are lemmings and just did what everyone else did or what they were told to do

 

Because of ther mechanics of the exploit and the limits on raid sizes, I can definitely see how this could be true for some people and they didn't understand that they were exploiting at first.

 

And since exploits have been used and gone unpunished, you know what that makes those who DO NOT use the exploits? Patsies. Hence why the non-exploiters are so mad: they are tired of being the butt of jokes and the patsies. But I bet there are many Bad Luck Brians out there who didn't use previous exploits and maybe even resisted using this one until it went undealt with for so long by Bioware, and so finally relented and now are caught.

 

- People trying to push for unreasonable punishments as if the world as they know it will collapse from this exploit

 

See above: they are mad because they have been the patsies.

 

- People claiming they will leave if they get punished for this as if other players want the type of player willing to take advantage of an exploit to stick around. That would be like wanting gold spammers to stay around because it boosts the population

 

Unfortunately, the people who got caught in the exploit are probably highly disproportionately raiders and long time players. If a lot of them left over punishments from this exploit it could be devastating to server communities and the raiding scene. There aren't that many raiders and raiding guilds on each server, and losing some of them will surely cause a ripple of guild collapses and mergers just to try to keep things going.

 

- The devs failing to patch an exploit after multiple weeks

 

This is the one that baffles me. Why not shut down the op if you can't patch it right away? Or if they had released the same warning a month ago that they did yesterday, that by itself would have severely cut down on the number of exploiters and minimized the damage.

 

But then again this is the same company that can't seem to figure out that Jedis want Jedi-like robes, or that Bounty Hunters want armor with functional jetpacks.

 

- The inconsistent message sent by dealing with these exploiters and leaving all others in the history of the game alone

 

Yup. This is a big reason why so many people exploit, and so many others are mad about it.

 

Kudos SWTOR forums. Only in this game would this happen. Any other game?

 

How about EVERY other online, multiplayer game? I've been around long enough to recognize all these same things. This controversy can't hold a candle to the things i used to read on the WoW forums. The Pally vs Shaman or PvP vs PvE debates in WoW make the Ravager exploit discussion look like a mosquito bite compared to being chased down and eaten by a pride of lions.

 

- Devs disable problem content immediately (or fix it before release if they knew)

- Patch is released in a day or two to hot fix the problem

- Devs re-enable content

 

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if they actually understood how to handle these sorts of things? But hey, it was the holidays and it's not like they feel the need to support their 365 days/year service that people pay for.

[RagingCyclone]

Dear Bioware,

 

Please refrain from issuing any possible punishments for the next 6 to 7 weeks...or whenever March Madness starts. This thread and the several like it (I've lost count how many) have been highly entertaining. I mean...this has been more fun to watch than the Ohio State vs. Oregon game and these folks aren't even playing for a national championship.

 

Perusing through these threads is like watching old Jerry Springer shows. In fact I could swear I hear the chanting of "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!" in the background. There hasn't been a fist fight yet, but I suspect one is close, and I'm pretty certain I've seen a few people foaming at the mouth.

 

Political debates between Republicans and Democrats aren't this vicious, so the entertainment value has been great.

 

Thanks,

An Entertained Spectator.

[phillynew]

It's not about hurting anyone, it's about personal responsibility for breaking the rules.

 

Try driving down the road at 100+ MPH. Even if you don't hit anyone and nobody was hurt, you're still going to have to pay the price when a cop catches you. Tell the cop you'll drive as you want. Use the excuse that you've driven like that in the past and nobody cared. Tell the judge that if you're punished you'll leave the state forever and never come back.

 

Let us know how that goes when you get out of jail. Some of us will still be here.

 

Horse crap. If this was about personal responsibility everyone in the game should be banned for wasting their time playing a game instead of doing something productive with their life. This is not real life, stop comparing this to it.

[EvenHardNiner]

"They can't afford to ban so many"

 

Myth Debunked

 

"most players"

 

51% > 49%

 

51% = most players

[LordArtemis]

You expected him to say something to the contrary?

 

I believe Bioware devs did exactly that in one of the cantina events when speaking to the use of legacy gear to move around mods.....they said it is a common practice across the playerbase, something to that effect.

[ptwonline]

"They can't afford to ban so many"

 

Myth Debunked

 

Even if it was 10% of the playerbase that would be a pretty massive blow. The people who exploited this weren't low-level, F2P accounts just trying out the game.

[idnewton]

There are players who 'used' the exploit without intending to, who left the gear in their inventory slots (or didn't take it at all) and contacted Customer Support, in some cases many times. I hope you're prepared to treat everyone fairly. That includes perma-banning "that one guild" we all know is the source of this BS. If you've done that much legwork, I would be astounded if you didn't find who started it, and would be dismayed if you didn't perma-ban them once and for all.

[BuriDogshin]

The people who exploited this weren't low-level, F2P accounts just trying out the game.

It's as you say. Every exploiter bought the SoR expansion. They had to.*

 

*unless there is a bug that lets you level to 60 without doing so.

Edited January 14, 2015 by BuriDogshin

[Aienir]

There are players who 'used' the exploit without intending to, who left the gear in their inventory slots (or didn't take it at all) and contacted Customer Support, in some cases many times. I hope you're prepared to treat everyone fairly. That includes perma-banning "that one guild" we all know is the source of this BS. If you've done that much legwork, I would be astounded if you didn't find who started it, and would be dismayed if you didn't perma-ban them once and for all.

 

There are usually a tiny number of people who found it and reported it, or found it but never used it.

 

Usually companies don't ban those people.

 

A guildie of mine actually has done this and is quite afraid of being banned even though it seems silly.

 

He was shown the exploit while being pugged in a raid, immediately started recording it on Overwolf and then recreated it 2 more times on video and sent in a ticket explaining how it was done, and asked if they wanted the video showing it being done so they could see it. He kept the items in his inventory unclaimed cause we weren't sure if they needed it there so they could track it (no idea how their systems work) and asked them what to do with it and if he could delete it.

 

Ticket was never responded for a while to and then closed with some message saying no answer will be given due to it being sent to QA.

 

This was BEFORE Eric Musco posted anything. No one in our guild even knew this existed before he came and told us.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Aienir

[Grayseven]

Even if it was 10% of the playerbase that would be a pretty massive blow. The people who exploited this weren't low-level, F2P accounts just trying out the game.

 

What I suspect will happen is:

 

1) All items gained through use of the exploit will be taken away. Same goes for schematics learned and credits made from exploit gained items.

 

2) Bans with length of time dependent on severity of the offense.

 

3) If they can find "exploiter zero's" or groups that made excessive use of the exploit I suspect they will see permanent bans or, at the least, bans of many multiple months.

 

I suspect the number of permanent bans will be very, very low. I suspect the number of removed credits and ill gotten gains to be very, very high.

[Legolose]

Execute Order 66.

Agreed!!!

[Jadescythe]

*snip*

 

Not really willing to go through your entire post, but most of it is false justification. Just because you've done it before and not been punished, doesn't mean it's wrong to punish now. While it has been inconsistent, people have had action taken against them for past exploits, so it isn't unfounded. I realize every time I speed on the roads that what I'm doing is against the law. There is a very low probability of me being pulled over, but if they give me a ticket for going 5 over I can't use my past experiences of driving past cops and not being pulled over at the same speed as justification for my actions.

 

As for the raiding community. SWTOR would probably be much better off without the hardcore raiders and the hardcore PvPers. It's mostly just complaining from them at this point as SWTOR will never be a competitive or hardcore game like they want. SWTOR's strength is in it's casual atmosphere, low barrier to entry, and varied play style options. And I know plenty of raid groups that get together to have fun and clear content, not get world firsts and find ways to game the system to win. The best I can say for the hardcore playes is they are vital in calculating min/max gear and ideal rotations that casual players piggyback off of.

[EzraFett]

Here's a hint: Nobody cares that you think you're a bad***. Go back to bed and worry about finding a girlfriend kid.

Lol, I don't think I am a bad ___, I just don't understand how cheating in a game and bypassing the game part is any fun. As for the rest of your statement, don't press your insecurities on me, "fwiend"

 

Back on topic, how is getting a reward (loot) without playing the game fun? I really don't understand. It seems to me that if you want to pay to play a game, then you should play the game. If there is really a large enough group of players that do not like raiding but just clicking to get loot, maybe they should add a special raid for them where there is just a bunch of balloons to click on that drop treats. And the treats can be like special pins that pop multiple balloons. There could even be special balloon popper cartel packs!

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Lol, I don't think I am a bad ___, I just don't understand how cheating in a game and bypassing the game part is any fun. As for the rest of your statement, don't press your insecurities on me, "fwiend"

 

Back on topic, how is getting a reward (loot) without playing the game fun? I really don't understand. It seems to me that if you want to pay to play a game, then you should play the game. If there is really a large enough group of players that do not like raiding but just clicking to get loot, maybe they should add a special raid for them where there is just a bunch of balloons to click on that drop treats. And the treats can be like special pins that pop multiple balloons. There could even be special balloon popper cartel packs!

 

I raid 95% of the time I'm logged in SWTOR so don't come at me saying I'm some cheat who doesn't put in the work.

[BadOrb]

Lol, I don't think I am a bad ___, I just don't understand how cheating in a game and bypassing the game part is any fun. As for the rest of your statement, don't press your insecurities on me, "fwiend"

 

Back on topic, how is getting a reward (loot) without playing the game fun? I really don't understand. It seems to me that if you want to pay to play a game, then you should play the game. If there is really a large enough group of players that do not like raiding but just clicking to get loot, maybe they should add a special raid for them where there is just a bunch of balloons to click on that drop treats. And the treats can be like special pins that pop multiple balloons. There could even be special balloon popper cartel packs!

 

I never knew the second part of my name was censored :[]. I am BadOrb and I demand a gift for not using the exploit.

 

In all seriousness though , I couldn't believe people are asking for a thank you gift for not using an exploit.

 

Well here's your gift , you will not be banned in any shape or form. Such a stupid request requires a stupid answer.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[DakotaDoc]

Eh the groups that exploited will be replaced by new players looking to do end-game, and new subs will be gained and replace any financial damage. Eventually it will all be a fart in the wind.

 

You seriously under estimate the power of the Derp Side. Seriously, this was stupid anyway you look at it. Doing what you suggest, will have a profound negative effect on the game to those that had zero influence or knowledge in this.

 

On a plus, they can consolidate the remaining populations down to much fewer servers, we can all be much more cozy together.

Edited January 14, 2015 by DakotaDoc

[Arkerus]

I pay not for the game, I pay for the community.

It's different.

The game does not matter.

Are important those with whom you spend your time.

 

You can SAY that but that's not what your doing. Your money is there to give you a priority license to the game (aka not a F2P license).

 

You get community, and forums, and guilds, etc but if that's not what you're paying for. If the game doesn't matter, then you wouldn't be complaining when they don't fix the things you want them to fix. You said you pay for the community. Good. Go chat with the community and stop complaining about the game...if it truly doesn't matter.

 

I suspect it DOES matter but you just can't admit that you enjoy the game. You are just using buzz words to make your complaint louder but you are perfectly happy handing over money, month after month. Eveything else is superfluous.

 

Now, if you have a criticism, by all means spit it out. Hyperbole like INFERIOR PRODUCT doesn't help and it just makes the person look like a crying child who isn't getting his/her way.

[aeterno]

I think BW can actually have the cake and eat it too in this case.

 

Remove the gear obtained by the guilds/induviduals involved & stick them on the "last strike then out, and we're actually looking from now on" list. Perhaps temp ban the induviduals that were the ringleaders of selling the information, if you can establish who that was.

 

I don't think many people that used the bug would actually argue that is an unreasonable punishment and at the same time we've also clearly established the FFA exploit rodeo that was these past 3 years is over, which is the really important thing here.

Edited January 14, 2015 by aeterno

[Drockter]

What I suspect will happen is:

 

1) All items gained through use of the exploit will be taken away. Same goes for schematics learned and credits made from exploit gained items.

 

2) Bans with length of time dependent on severity of the offense.

 

3) If they can find "exploiter zero's" or groups that made excessive use of the exploit I suspect they will see permanent bans or, at the least, bans of many multiple months.

 

I suspect the number of permanent bans will be very, very low. I suspect the number of removed credits and ill gotten gains to be very, very high.

 

I agree... I don't think everyone who participated will get banned.

 

Personally, I believe #1 is a definite. As for bans/suspensions... I don't thing everyone will even face a suspension... loss of gear definitely, and maybe a warning for the lighter offenders.

 

But if you farmed it, spread it, sold it... well, i think that's a different story.

 

Personally, I think that's who Bioware is after... the second group. If it had been a small group, that got some gear out of it, before it was closed (others were reporting the bug)... this probably would have never seen the light (or darkness) of the forums.

 

What made this bad/big, were those who spread the information... thats what made this blow up. It's like speeding by the police station, honking your horn, and glass packs. Almost begging to get caught,

Edited January 14, 2015 by Drockter

[mad_freeman]

Lol, I don't think I am a bad ___, I just don't understand how cheating in a game and bypassing the game part is any fun. As for the rest of your statement, don't press your insecurities on me, "fwiend"

 

Back on topic, how is getting a reward (loot) without playing the game fun? I really don't understand. It seems to me that if you want to pay to play a game, then you should play the game. If there is really a large enough group of players that do not like raiding but just clicking to get loot, maybe they should add a special raid for them where there is just a bunch of balloons to click on that drop treats. And the treats can be like special pins that pop multiple balloons. There could even be special balloon popper cartel packs!

 

such stuff is already exist. this people is being carryed by capable players and grab loot from operation.

Funny part some of them after that will go on forum and QQ that SWTOR should be casual and game will not lose anything from losing hardcore pve and pvp players. it's total ********, because this people is one of few things wich keep this game alive

Edited January 14, 2015 by mad_freeman

[Kourage]

Even if it was 10% of the playerbase that would be a pretty massive blow. The people who exploited this weren't low-level, F2P accounts just trying out the game.

 

Many if not most of the people who exploited are subscribers, many have subscribed for 2-3 years. They are people who play all parts of the game, augment their gear, and min/max. Remove them and you are left with mostly casuals in unaugmented comm gear who have never read a strategy guide in their life and get carried through all content. Removing them from the game, makes the game worse.

 

Then there's manpower it would take to punish every player. BioWare can't do something as simple as drawing up a few new icons for Mission Discoveries, but they have time for this? They're going to remove crafting materials that people already sold or used to craft? They're going to remove gear that already had it's mods stripped and placed into Cartel or Legacy armor? They're going to remove schematics they learned if they learned it from RE an exploited item, but they can't take away the credit charged to other players to craft the items. They aren't going to remove any crafting crit bonus items that were created and sold from materials gained from exploits. And who is making the decisions? Some clown who makes $9 an hour? Some person who doesn't even play the game? Let's be honest. BioWare has a bare bones stafff. This past expansion is proof of that.

[Lost-Savage-XIII]

This is fun, its just like high school all over again sadly most of us are not in high school but its fun to see it replayed right before my eyes. But it is time to let this go and start focusing on the things that do actually effect everyone. The game has real issues, and we need to start pushing BW to start fixing them quicker or to fix them when they are found on the PTS. If we were as committed to this game as people here seem to be lets start forcing them to do the right thing for us as customers. Lets let them know its not ok to release content that contains the problems that this release contains. They knew this was there and still released it. That is not acceptable to me as a consumer to pay for something broken then not have it fixed as soon as it goes public. We as a community have to help each other here. REPORT every glitch and exploit you see asap. Every bug should have 50 tickets on it. That I the only way this game will ever get up to par. There is a lot wrong with this game, lets get BW to fix it for everyone and the bonus will be they won't release broken content anymore or they will learn to fix it quickly.

 

As for Ravagergate lets all just see what happens and in the meantime lets play our fun but screwy game....

[Andryah]

What I suspect will happen is:

 

1) All items gained through use of the exploit will be taken away. Same goes for schematics learned and credits made from exploit gained items.

 

2) Bans with length of time dependent on severity of the offense.

 

3) If they can find "exploiter zero's" or groups that made excessive use of the exploit I suspect they will see permanent bans or, at the least, bans of many multiple months.

 

I suspect the number of permanent bans will be very, very low. I suspect the number of removed credits and ill gotten gains to be very, very high.

 

/Agree with this assessment.