jessherring Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 First off I do NOT believe in fueling the fire however I think a lot of us need to go back and read the TOS.. After carefully reading it it clearly states that action will be taken against any accounts who use the "exploits" however reading further lines I discovered other certain Terms of Service not being followed and I'm sure many of us have at some point time broken one of these "rules" so before we judge everyone go and take a look at how many you have broken you may be surprised. Swtor TOS Player Conduct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrishnaeMarcelle Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 "Who wants respect have to give respect "explain: If BW wants the players do not exploit, have to start setting an example. Besides the immense amount of bugs (" there was an expansion that bug" as the friend mentioned a few days ago) and the long delay to correct them (subscribers had to wait when the BW wanted to correct, showing complete disregard) there is also something that the reviews here was not mentioned: the immense amount of bots that there were (and are) farming chests and other items used by people to get credits and then sell them on fleet (and even spamming via in main in game and by whispers, general chat) and the BW does nothing!!! While players generally kill themselves doing daily every, every day, and selling crafted items to get a quantity of credits, other people do accounts just to use bots to farm (and still have those who buy these credits, that is, are gaining advantage over those who do not purchase). no to speak of those who use that same type of device to do the leveling of chars, YES, THATS CHEAT, it is necessary to change the game code that is in the person's computer (there are sites that sell these cracks, just search. Does the BW dont know? Really?). If the company wants the players respect the rules, must respect itself the rules and do everything so that the product it is offering flawless come, and when it happens that the correct ASAP. Give ban now it is only proof of incompetence, which did not act earlier to fix something that it knew would be explored. After all, there was time to create new items for the Cartel Market, no? #RIPSWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbroncos Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 It's making me laugh a lot when they are saying that moat of the player didn't do it.. I think they were speaking about the people that can't do operation, are f2p or prefered status. In my book it doesn't count has player who didn't do the exploit! Most people i know did it, not only because it was free gear but because it was reported in the PTS and they never fixed it. If you guys remember the Nefra exploit back in DF NIM. Probably all server have done it because BW make their scrip pretty bad so it create a bug amd we abuse it. Most of the people are doing it because we spend so much money on pack or anything!! They didn't punish us for using the exploit so why they would do it for ravagers exploit? We are not the creator of the game bu user that play that game with so many bug that they would prefer to ban or punish most of player that play everyday and that are clearing most content! I'm pretty surr that if people are banned or that loose gear they will probably unsubscribe and go play something else! Anyways they should spend time fixing the game and not punish people who abused their mistake! I wish luck to everyone that have done the exploit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feefty Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Good job Bioware, you can't get fixes on the current ops we have. YET you want to spend the manpower to ban people, using an exploit you allowed on Live. /golf clap Bill Murray Says Hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I would be willing to wager my millions that the people that exploited are the ones that used to spend Hundreds of dollars a month on the Cartel Market. Fixed it for you. It would be interesting to see whether Cartel Coin purchases dropped after Eric's first post on the exploit, and again after today's post on the subject. An exploiter might decide not to buy any CCs this week. The change in CC sales might be a good predictor of the impact any sanctions might have. Or maybe not. Edited January 13, 2015 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spliffy-TreesOG Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 While I am happy that Bioware is taking actions to exploiters, I do find this rather hypocritical since many others have risen the points about the blatant abuse of the ranked PvP system. Season 1 people exploited to get their rancors, and nothing was done to them. Season 2 people did the same without any bans or items taken away. Season 3 people still abused the ranked pvp system and win traded to acquire their walkers. And yet still they have all these exploited items in their grasp. Bioware says that they have all this information regarding people who used the exploit and how many times, yet you'd think they'd have the same information regarding 4v4 group ranked and how long a game goes on, how frequently a player queues and how a lot of people got 15 (give or take) wins in group ranked, got above 1650 and stopped. On a multitude of characters. (There is also evidence we as players can see regarding the leaderboards, people who just sky rocket to 1650 rating in a mater of hours and disappear without ever being seen in the queue again.) Just makes me upset to see that the ranked PvP community is either so small that these things can go through the cracks, or that Bioware would rather cater to the larger group of players (PvErs) because they make a louder fuss. Or they just don't care about PvP (but that's being a tad cynical.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (legit, not exploited - I have 5 pieces of my new 6 piece set). Wow from HM? Hardly anyone has managed to complete that and many that have managed and didn't exploit themselves had help from overgeared guildies etc. that did. What guild anyway and how is that sitting on any progression charts? See that's the thing, even people who didn't exploit the bug may have gained from it and obviously ntohing can really be done about that. To see it's done no harm though is rather naive. In the simplest case beyond GTN/credits earned etc and the repercussions frmo that or on crafters etc. quite simply in running content... I'm in a guild FULL of people who cheated this exploit ( I don't think I intend on sticking around much longer as a result ) and even put the following scenario to them that was more or less this: It's raid day for HM 60 Operations. Lot's of people wanting to run, assuming everyone knows the mechanics as best as can be expected and are experienced raiders, can they HONESTLY tell me they would sit out a raidier in 198's over someone in 186/192's to run that raid? The question was pretty much side stepped etc. but I feel that answered it enough for me. Also the effect on pugs will be similar especially with the comm changes. People will want quick 60 SM runs and easier to take all the people in 198 gear than anyone in minimum required gear. Apparently you didn't use this exploit so good for you but I fail to see how you can defend it as so harmless or even defend those that did it when it clearly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonexadon Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 TLDR: This needs to work both ways. If they plan to punish those who use exploits...they (Bioware) also need to look into and reward those who earned a reward but, due to a bug, could not receive it. My problem with the idea of banning or punishing those who used the exploit is based on the history that Bioware has had with dealing with bugs in this game. The game has been full of bugs since launch. What game has not? It's understandable. Yet bugs that made Soa almost impossible, bugs that caused the + all stat datacron to be a nightmare to get and also almost impossible, bugs that caused several weekly com rewards to not materialize (and this bug still happens as recently as this expansion), bugs that would cause achievements to never pop, so on, and so on Each of these bugs I have put a ticket in. Each of these were resolved in the same matter I was told that it was a known issue, that they would fix it, but I would have to obtain the reward again myself. In short : Bugs that deny me a reward I earned are met with "Oh well, you wont get it, do it again" Yet a bug that earns me a reward without doing the work earns a punishment or ban? If they plan to enforce such punishment I am fine with that. That being said : tickets that are created in response to a buggy game not giving a just reward need to be taken a lot more seriously and not just brushed aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Myself and those I know have decided to hold off buying anything more from the CM until we see what BW is going to be doing. Because I'll be damned if I spend another $200 on Hypercrates if I'm going to catch a severe penalty. You care enough about this game to drop $200 on gambling boxes more than once, but not enough to be able to beat a relatively easy ops enough to get the gear legitimately? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 While I am happy that Bioware is taking actions to exploiters, I do find this rather hypocritical since many others have risen the points about the blatant abuse of the ranked PvP system. Season 1 people exploited to get their rancors, and nothing was done to them. Season 2 people did the same without any bans or items taken away. Season 3 people still abused the ranked pvp system and win traded to acquire their walkers. If BWEA doesn't consider kill trading to be an exploit, that's their business. You're free to disagree and unsubscribe if it makes you angry enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Myself and those I know have decided to hold off buying anything more from the CM until we see what BW is going to be doing. Because I'll be damned if I spend another $200 on Hypercrates if I'm going to catch a severe penalty. Well at least you admit to being a cheat. At least if you do quit it will be one less person we have to worry about trying to defend their cheating on the forums. Man up and take the punishment for cheating, stop being such ******* about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryand Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Or they just don't care about PvP (but that's being a tad cynical.) TBH, the best exclusive reward (by far) that they have ever given for anything in the history of the game was that legacy set for Season 3 ranked, which was only for PvPers. So as far as I'm concerned, PvPers never get to complain about BW not giving them stuff ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spliffy-TreesOG Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If BWEA doesn't consider kill trading to be an exploit, that's their business. You're free to disagree and unsubscribe if it makes you angry enough. I never said it was about kill trading, it's about walking into a set instance (4v4 arena) and abusing the queue with the other team to acquire ill gotten items. It's just the same as this exploit but requires slightly more work. It's hypocritical and yet they've never gotten banned. Also I never said I was angry, just upset at the fact that they bend to the whim of PvErs when they all cry about this exploit "ruining progression" when the ranked PvP exploit ruined group ranked (I.E queue dodging) and nothing was done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derat Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How i interpret his post. "Please buy our new cartel pack that came out today. Then we will decide how and when to punish the exploiters depending on how much money we make off the pack. " I would be willing to wager my millions that the people that exploited are the ones that spend Hundreds of dollars a month on the Cartel Market. lol, right? so funny - they lie to us and can't be trusted and then wonder why people are wiling to use exploits... lets forget the hundreds of broken promises. Look at just this issue. After not saying anything or doing anything for weeks, not even a post asking/warning us not to abuse it, Mighty Musco comes out and says that because so many people are talking about it, it's so widespread and everywhere that they will break their policy and talk about it... they finally askus not to abuse it and the exploit usage drops dramitacally... (crazy right) Then we get today's post that even though this was soooo widespread only like 2 guys used it so no worries we can undo it all... Just imagine the complexity here... - people got items - mounts, decorations, achievements and gear. - Legacy Smuggling - Reverse engineering on toon that cheated and other toons in legacy. - Gifting those items to guidlies and friends, some whom used exploit as well and others that did not. - Selling those items on GTN - People moved mods around like crazy, often over writing their existing "legit" mods. - People have now run Ravengers by themselves in groups and guilds, the illegitimate rewards have now mixed in with the now legitimate rewards. The one time quest rewards that have been gotten earlier now would be gotten legitimately (including the one time quest, mount and achievement) **likely ahead of schedule due to previous exploit use but none the less completed by actually going through the ops** - Coms earned spent on other not related gear - TOS clears or progress made possible due to ill-gotten gear gains. - The sheer volume of general chat to be parsed with some level of accuracy to determine who was selling something vs not. (Not to mention guild and whispers) The list goes on... i can come up with so much more.... but somehow through all that they will come up with a fair and just punishment that doesn't screw up everything... or unduly punish some randoms while letting the "Undue abusers" go barely scathed given their returns... I don't believe it for a second... they don't have the skill and if they try to do this they will simply break things so badly... it will be the death of the game. They lie and lie and lie and don't follow through and then lie some more. They have lost all trust and respect . This Fiasco is a result. Perhaps if they had spoken up right away... been honest right away. Guys there is a exploit with one of the ops, its very obvious. Please don't use it. We do not want to kneew jerk "fix" it as we might break something else. We will be keeping track. Something like this Day 1, ASAP to let people know its not ok... the amount of abuse would be a fraction of a fraction of what it was... the servers were going crazy over this... there were hundreds of toons hovering outside ravengers... we were there Musco... we saw it. Ridiculous statements like "On the plus side, most players didn't partake in the exploit at all" doesn't make it not be real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spliffy-TreesOG Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 TBH, the best exclusive reward (by far) that they have ever given for anything in the history of the game was that legacy set for Season 3 ranked, which was only for PvPers. So as far as I'm concerned, PvPers never get to complain about BW not giving them stuff ever again. When in my post did I complain about them never giving us anything? I said that they don't care about their system being abused in PvP, yet will oblige to ban PvErs that use an exploit that's to the same extent the exact same as win trading. (Hence why I put the bracketed part in there.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You care enough about this game to drop $200 on gambling boxes more than once, but not enough to be able to beat a relatively easy ops enough to get the gear legitimately? I'm confused. First, let me opine that it was not easy to beat SM Ravagers because of the bugs, and note that the exploit could be used to get the 198 tokens and gear, which I do not think you can get from a "relatively easy op." Now, given that, and just speculating about the other poster, but: 1) your idea of what is fun may differ from his, this is a game after all, 2) he may have been buying hypercrates in part to show support for the game, and 3) he may have thought that exploiting the bug did not substantially harm anyone, not even BioWare. Does that help remedy your confusion any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Let's gather all the exploiters, put them in camps, flog, crucify, then burn them. That will make sure the point not only gets across but it will prevent all exploits in the future being used. Because you know, it's for the greater good. Line all them exploiters up at the Fleet Respawn point... Behead each character that exploited and BAN the account before the blood flowing down the stairs is gone. Get a grip folks... BW will handle this in some reasonable fashion I'm sure. Some will agree and some will disagree with the level of punishment, but that is BW to decide NOT the witch hunting party with pitch forks and lightsabers. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Win trading is a tougher one to prove though is it not? It's not blatantly exploiting a bug as I see it as was the case here. My point is via logs they may very easily be able to see that player X got an achievement and gear from a boss he never killed because the flag of boss kill was never set against his account. That is then easer to track and begin the process of investigation against all those concerned/involved. Win trading though doesn't really leave any evidence to sift through because ideally it doesn't leave any untoward flags etc. that I can think of. Yes you have match times etc. dropping but again that's not sold proof. If you could provide solid proof ( video logs and what have you ) then I would expect BW to act on it or at least investigate it. Lastly win trading for ranked is a drop in a bucket compared to the effect this exploit has had. Even the nefra bug ( which was at least just exploited mechanics, you still had to kill a boss ) was nothing compared to this. I would be interested to hear if anyone can offer up an exploit on this scale ( and the effect it has had ) that BW have not acted upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkwerner Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 BW - whatever you're going to do, please do it soon. My brain is starting to lag due to all of the "bad things people in SWTOR do" threads and their various opinions. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but this is getting out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 How i interpret his post. "Please buy our new cartel pack that came out today. Then we will decide how and when to punish the exploiters depending on how much money we make off the pack. " I would be willing to wager my millions that the people that exploited are the ones that spend Hundreds of dollars a month on the Cartel Market. I would disagree in this aspect, raiders have their top gear, with set bonuses etc. It is their badge of honor so to speak (well I guess with the exploit their badge of dishonor). So they dont get fashion gear, maybe packs for thier strongholds. I would think the CM benefits more from casuals. Now this is just speculation on my part, but I have noticed it in other MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Well at least you admit to being a cheat. At least if you do quit it will be one less person we have to worry about trying to defend their cheating on the forums. Man up and take the punishment for cheating, stop being such ******* about it. Do you get this wound up when people use god-mode on Devil May Cry? Honestly, I think you need to relax, take a deep breath and calm down. It's not that big of a deal when compared to things like win-trading in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Do you get this wound up when people use god-mode on Devil May Cry? Honestly, I think you need to relax, take a deep breath and calm down. It's not that big of a deal when compared to things like win-trading in PVP. Stupid response ... I don't even see how you can compare a game I may have never played ( and is primarily single player I believe ) to your actions in this game. As for PVP win trading I'm sure if you've done this exploit you've probably attempted that too though not enough friends willing to cheat like you to actually pull it off? I'm curious if you'll update your signature to quote Eric's comments around this when the ban hammer finally doth fall upon thee ( or similarly deserved punishment ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Stupid response ... I don't even see how you can compare a game I may have never played ( and is primarily single player I believe ) to your actions in this game. As for PVP win trading I'm sure if you've done this exploit you've probably attempted that too though not enough friends willing to cheat like you to actually pull it off? I'm curious if you'll update your signature to quote Eric's comments around this when the ban hammer finally doth fall upon thee ( or similarly deserved punishment ). Man, you're angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I would disagree in this aspect, raiders have their top gear, with set bonuses etc. It is their badge of honor so to speak (well I guess with the exploit their badge of dishonor). So they dont get fashion gear, maybe packs for thier strongholds. I would think the CM benefits more from casuals. Now this is just speculation on my part, but I have noticed it in other MMOs. I agree and of course those that want to expediate getting BiS crafted gear as quickly as possible are often happy to spend up large on cartel packs so they can buy the gear from the GTN. When you think about it that way doing nothing in this instance would possibly hurt those players and BW. All of a sudden the people buying the BiS crafted gear and who spend tons on the CM packs to do so still can't get in raid groups etc. because everyone else is running in actual BiS gear they got illegitimately. They may then think why bother having the credits to buy the gear if they're still not going to be able to use it. As with you, speculation on my behalf but those thinking that punishing the offenders would do so much harm to the game are generally the guilty parties here and don't bother to think on what doing nothing will do to the game now in both terms of ruining any sense of justice in those that choose not to cheat as well basically giving everyone a green light to exploit anything and everything they can and never having to fear punishment ( aslong as they make it so public that BW couldn't possibly take action once they've gotten what they wanted like guilds selling lockouts etc. from this ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Man, you're angry. And you're obviously out of excuses. Didn't even have to wait for you to be punished and quit for it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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