Rheemus Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 WHY even augment at all then for PVP ? if Health goes DOWN by equiping Advanced augments (over the prototype blue quality which is in bolster in 3.0) for what LESS HP and microscopic more power ????????? that in the randoness of PVP is completely not going to give you any advantage whatsoever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Because that is what maximizing is. Also, I don't want power. I want mainstat. But if you want to be cheap, by all means. Edited January 11, 2015 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheemus Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Because that is what maximizing is. Also, I don't want power. I want mainstat. But if you want to be cheap, by all means. If you want to self delude yourself wiith imaginary "greatness" from unconsequencial microsscopic stat increases when much bigger things influence outcome of pvp, by all means Edited January 11, 2015 by Rheemus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) If you want to self delude yourself wiith imaginary "greatness" from unconsequencial microsscopic stat increases when much bigger things influence outcome of pvp, by all means Every little bit helps. Including 30 force bonus damage and 1.5% crit. It's like saying you don't need datacrons. If you wish to shoot yourself in the foot, sure go ahead. Use the bolster crap Edited January 11, 2015 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Min-maxing is about ... stretching the rules so far that they don't break but still give you an advance. That's why min-maxers are not liked in non-minmaxing pen & paper RPG groups. Because they usually stretch too far - and make themselves SO powerful that everyone else at the table feels SO MUCH powerless - which is the min-maxers intention. Within min-maxing pen & paper RPG groups, min-maxing works fairly ell, though. Because everyone there is bent on getting as much powah as possible ... Edited January 11, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The way I see it: 1. every little bit helps (and when I can't get little bits, I'll take a hair. A micron. An illusion of hair.) 2. credits are earned to improve gear 3. the crafters gotta craft, seeing the credits went into developing their abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gblXsw Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) If you want to compete at the highest level (as far as that exists in swtor) every bit helps, but I don't see how it could be worth it for a casual pvper to spend millions of credits for such a small improvement. Specifically for tanks the difference between what they ideally have and what they get for free is so negligible. Min-maxing is about ... stretching the rules so far that they don't break but still give you an advance. That's why min-maxers are not liked in non-minmaxing pen & paper RPG groups. Because they usually stretch too far - and make themselves SO powerful that everyone else at the table feels SO MUCH powerless - which is the min-maxers intention. Within min-maxing pen & paper RPG groups, min-maxing works fairly ell, though. Because everyone there is bent on getting as much powah as possible ... In a typical pen & paper RPG you aren't supposed to minmax (however exactly the relevant ruleset makes that possible), because edges and weaknesses are a part of realistically roleplaying. How is that even comparable? You aren't roleplaying in competitive pvp. The mechanical and the roleplaying parts of the game are separate. Your stats don't influence your roleplaying and your roleplaying shouldn't influence your stats. Edited January 11, 2015 by gblXsw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 WHY even augment at all then for PVP ? if Health goes DOWN by equiping Advanced augments (over the prototype blue quality which is in bolster in 3.0) for what LESS HP and microscopic more power ????????? that in the randoness of PVP is completely not going to give you any advantage whatsoever Actually, it is. That's what 'min/maxing' is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 There is just no argueing with this level of dumb.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 There is just no argueing with this level of dumb.. I think it's a matter of mentality of the player. Not so much that he is dumb. It's like the players in a wz, that when you lose or are losing say things like, "it's just a game, who cares..." Or, the players that after one wipe go sit on a taken node and huddle with other losers instead of trying to win the match. Some compete heavily which includes gearing, and others do not. Some simply do not see a point in working hard (spending lots of time and credits) on gears or working hard to win. To them the smallest edge is not worth it on gears, it requires too much effort. Voila. My 2cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazerxxx Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hey, i just reactivated a week ago. Can someone give me a rundown whats the deal is with augments and bolster. I still have the old 20 endurance and 32 stat augments. Are they getting bolstered? Should i remove them completely till I have the new one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzenaattori Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I don't even build Primary stat aug on pvp gear. I go endurance... KR style pvp all the way... high HP pool will never hurt especially in a game with 0 offensive cds as for regards to the cost... ...if you want something done right... do it yourself Edited January 11, 2015 by Bonzenaattori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 WHY even augment at all then for PVP ? if Health goes DOWN by equiping Advanced augments (over the prototype blue quality which is in bolster in 3.0) for what LESS HP and microscopic more power ????????? that in the randoness of PVP is completely not going to give you any advantage whatsoever Feel free not to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheemus Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) There is just no argueing with this level of dumb.. Your not only arrogant but dumbly arrogant, as we see in the world right now, the most dangerous kind of individuals there is .... Edited January 11, 2015 by Rheemus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't see what the big deal is, it is crafted gear after all. Not like it is hard to obtain. Op not heard of slicer alts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well, with the Archeology being a poor child compared to the Scavenging, it is much more attractive to craft Fortitude, Overkill, Skill and Reflex rather than Might and Willpower. The Prices on the gTN reflect the supply imbalance. However, with the abundance of the L11 materials and the availability of a 2-2-2 crafted item accross the professions, augmenting became easier than ever. It's really just a matter of persistence and gradual investment. I try to split the augmentation cost over the life of the character adding the MK-10s on gear as I put his "orange" look together, and replacing the augments in the slots every 10 levels or so. Because... why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hey, i just reactivated a week ago. Can someone give me a rundown whats the deal is with augments and bolster. I still have the old 20 endurance and 32 stat augments. Are they getting bolstered? Should i remove them completely till I have the new one? I am not sure of any of this information, but I'd thought I'd volunteer it and if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me: If the augment slot is empty (or you just don't have an augment slot on that piece of gear) by default it will apply the equivalent of a fortitude augment: endurance and power. I haven't seen anyone post the actual grading but I have to assume it's the equivalent of green 186's; can't imagine they'd give everyone the equivalent of max-tier fortitude augments. If you have another sort of augment equipped I think it bolsters that to the equivalent of a green 186. Oh, and for the short term you want to make sure you have at least a few pieces of gear equipped on your ship. Presently there's a bug where they're getting bolster augments as well. Not an exploit since it's just "normal" player behavior. Just buy the cheapest parts you can since their grading doesn't count against you. You won't be able to equip your full ship because certain parts require fleet coms but I wouldn't waste my time or coms on something that's going to be patched out shortly anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazerxxx Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am not sure of any of this information, but I'd thought I'd volunteer it and if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me: If the augment slot is empty (or you just don't have an augment slot on that piece of gear) by default it will apply the equivalent of a fortitude augment: endurance and power. I haven't seen anyone post the actual grading but I have to assume it's the equivalent of green 186's; can't imagine they'd give everyone the equivalent of max-tier fortitude augments. If you have another sort of augment equipped I think it bolsters that to the equivalent of a green 186. Oh, and for the short term you want to make sure you have at least a few pieces of gear equipped on your ship. Presently there's a bug where they're getting bolster augments as well. Not an exploit since it's just "normal" player behavior. Just buy the cheapest parts you can since their grading doesn't count against you. You won't be able to equip your full ship because certain parts require fleet coms but I wouldn't waste my time or coms on something that's going to be patched out shortly anyway. Thx mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If you want to self delude yourself wiith imaginary "greatness" from unconsequencial microsscopic stat increases when much bigger things influence outcome of pvp, by all means He is right your hp gain means nothing when your hit by 4k more damage per hit. It part of min/maxing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Your not only arrogant but dumbly arrogant, as we see in the world right now, the most dangerous kind of individuals there is .... LOL a no one telling Evolixe how to play how funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) LOL a no one telling Evolixe how to play how funny Evolixe cult getting stronger and stronger! Edited January 12, 2015 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Lmfao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirvington Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Here's the point the OP is making. In PvE, when you attach an augment, you get the full stat value for each augment, justifying the cost. In PvP, you get a FREE default augment for each piece of gear, so when you attach your own augment to it, the stats that change are only the difference between what you attach and the blue Fort augment that's given by default. So to break this down, you get 14 blue Fort augs and aug kits for FREE = 644 endurance and 420 power. For simplicity's sake, let's substitute Advanced Overkill augs (if you use main stat, the numbers aren't much different). So for 14 Advanced Overkill augs = 476 endurance and 728 power. However, in order to attach the advanced augs, you have to use 14 augmentation kits and pay 14 fees at the mod station. One can craft the kits and augs oneself, of course, but you would still pay an opportunity cost, the value of what was given up to craft them yourself instead of selling them. Going by the current prices on Jedi Covenant, 14 augmentation kits, plus the 42k fee for each kit, plus 14 Advanced augs of any type (around 110k each) totals an opportunity cost of 2.84 million creds--for a stat difference of a gain of 308 power and a loss of 168 endurance. Here's the problem. Is it worth 2.84 million credits to gain 308 power and lose 168 endurance for EACH character you have that PvPs? I have 10 toons that I PvP with. That's 28.4 million credits to gear each of them out to gain 308 power and lose 168 endurance! So spend nothing, or spend 2.84 million credits to gain 308 power and lose 168 endurance. That's the issue right now with Bolster giving free blue Fort augs. I don't have a solution, but on the face of it, it doesn't seem worth the credit opportunity cost for such a small stat change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloneli Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Here's the point the OP is making. In PvE, when you attach an augment, you get the full stat value for each augment, justifying the cost. In PvP, you get a FREE default augment for each piece of gear, so when you attach your own augment to it, the stats that change are only the difference between what you attach and the blue Fort augment that's given by default. So to break this down, you get 14 blue Fort augs and aug kits for FREE = 644 endurance and 420 power. For simplicity's sake, let's substitute Advanced Overkill augs (if you use main stat, the numbers aren't much different). So for 14 Advanced Overkill augs = 476 endurance and 728 power. However, in order to attach the advanced augs, you have to use 14 augmentation kits and pay 14 fees at the mod station. One can craft the kits and augs oneself, of course, but you would still pay an opportunity cost, the value of what was given up to craft them yourself instead of selling them. Going by the current prices on Jedi Covenant, 14 augmentation kits, plus the 42k fee for each kit, plus 14 Advanced augs of any type (around 110k each) totals an opportunity cost of 2.84 million creds--for a stat difference of a gain of 308 power and a loss of 168 endurance. Here's the problem. Is it worth 2.84 million credits to gain 308 power and lose 168 endurance for EACH character you have that PvPs? I have 10 toons that I PvP with. That's 28.4 million credits to gear each of them out to gain 308 power and lose 168 endurance! So spend nothing, or spend 2.84 million credits to gain 308 power and lose 168 endurance. That's the issue right now with Bolster giving free blue Fort augs. I don't have a solution, but on the face of it, it doesn't seem worth the credit opportunity cost for such a small stat change. If you want the best damage/heal you can get out of you stats then it is worth it. The choice is yours use some creds that will most probably just lie around used on nothing (for me at least) or use em for a little boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Thing is a lot of DPS/healers don't want to stack endurance. They want to maximize their out out. For some 2.8m is a lot of credits. To others not so much. I augmented my gear one at a time and didn't really notice a big drop in credits. Every time I earned 100k I allowed myself another augment so my credits didn't drop much. The extra power or mainstat you get from switching to purple mainstat/power augments is worth it in my opinion. My goal is not to win by absorbing more damage thru higher health pool; it is to win by reducing my opponents health pool faster than he can mine. That's what min/maxing does. It's the same reason I spend 2k ranked comms and 800 unranked comms for 1 ranked enhancement. It's becusse I like the stats better. One ranked enhancement takes longer to grind out than credits for an augment. Edited January 12, 2015 by Saikochoro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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