regarding punishment for exploit

[Max_Killjoy]

yea well you need to go back and reread what that other person actually said i.e. me, because i never said any of that.

 

Huh...

 

tuff.. if they broke the rules and knowingly broke the rules they should be banned. and everything of theirs should be deleted period. it should be if you break the rules you get punished... and not like the real world where the rich and powerful can break any rules they want and get away with it.

 

and if they do just let your buddies get away with it what kind of message dose that send to everyone else?? if you find an exploit in the future exploit the heck out of it kuz you wont get punished for it.

 

Since "ban" doesn't have be a permanent ban (or haven't you heard of a 1-day ban, or a 7-day ban, or...) the straightforward reading of your statement is that you want them to be banned, AND to be stripped of inventory.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Andryah]

Really now... internet lawyers are the best sign that a thread has gone from bad to wrose.

 

Rampant snark is a much better indicator IMO.

[Edzew]

Huh...

Since "ban" doesn't have be a permanent ban (or haven't you heard of a 1-day ban, or a 7-day ban, or...) the straightforward reading of your statement is that you want them to be banned, AND to be stripped of inventory.

 

i was talking about this quote of yours

The person I was responding to has seriously suggested that anyone who is "tainted" by this exploit should have everything stripped from their character, down to the last scrap of Silica in their cargo hold.

 

I wonder what he would suggest if someone bought a stack of something off GTN, and then donated a few to their guild... would he suggest that the guild should be stripped of everything for "receiving stolen goods"? And what if someone else in the guild then used that donated stuff to craft some things, should that player also be stripped of everything? And if one of those crafted items was sold on GTN in turn? And so on?

 

Where does this "fruit of the poison tree" and "a message must be sent!" nonsense end?

.

 

the people who are doing the exploiting should be permanently banned and all their items and names deleted. It ends at the exploiters.

[Draqsko]

Roflmao!

 

At worst this exploit compares to money laundering. Show me one instance of where someone was executed for that.

 

Don't go to China and launder money..

 

http://rijock.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-wont-china-abandon-death-penalty.html

 

Other white collar crimes got a reprieve, but money laundering is still punishable by death in China.

[Infernixx]

Somehow, I'm less than inclined to be remorseful when I look at the whole picture. That being the terrible state of the expansion as it stands now. Broken in so many places and yet, some expect the players to be regretful for taking advantage of one of the broken parts.

 

Had the expansion launched with even 'half' as few bugs and broken aspects as it did, I might be inclined to agree with you, but no. Not with the state of the game as it stands now.

[Genghistwelve]

Genghis I have to ask, what was your sig that got removed? Or are you just messing with people

 

It was actually from a while ago involving a common mmorpg / online term in form of "e-..." signifying a male reproductive organ.

 

I simply had listed the following:

 

 

"The length of my [offending term]: {link to my Torparse #5 Overall Damage leaderboard parse}

The girth of my [offending term]: {link to my Torparse #1 Sentinel Heal leaderboard parse}"

 

 

Clearly, it is bad to say "e-..." I think what got someone butthurt enough to report me was... well. I can see another warning coming if I say anymore.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Genghistwelve

[Kourage]

The only people that will be punished if not already have been punished are those who transfer their character to sell access to the exploit or openly advertised they wanted to sell access to it. They are not going to suspend or ban a third or more of their subscribers for using the easy less rewarding version of the exploit, which I'm being careful not to detail. They aren't going to tell you how many people did it, they might not even know, but they know it's a lot. A lot of subscribers who are probably on the verge of looking for another game anyhow.

[Draqsko]

Somehow, I'm less than inclined to be remorseful when I look at the whole picture. That being the terrible state of the expansion as it stands now. Broken in so many places and yet, some expect the players to be regretful for taking advantage of one of the broken parts.

 

Had the expansion launched with even 'half' as few bugs and broken aspects as it did, I might be inclined to agree with you, but no. Not with the state of the game as it stands now.

 

The state of the game, DOES NOT EXCUSE exploiting it.

 

Everyone else doing it, DOES NOT EXCUSE exploiting it.

 

It doesn't really hurt anyone else, DOES NOT EXCUSE exploiting it.

 

Where the F do you people come up with this crap? Have you seriously never took responsibility for your own actions in your life ever? Because that's what this is looking like.

 

If you exploited, you broke TOS and deserve to face the consequences of that. What those consequences are, is ENTIRELY up to Bioware, but there needs to be consequences this time. They tried to act in good faith, by allowing us to continue to do the operation legitly (since it still worked legit) instead of locking it out entirely for the holidays until it was fixed. The way the exploit worked, there is no innocent partaker with the steps you have to take to make it work. The playerbase of this game (in general, it doesn't apply to everyone) totally abused the developers' good faith, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make it a future point to now lockdown operations that are exploitable yet still functioning legitly instead of letting people try to do that content as intended until there is a fix.

 

Infernixx, you disappoint me by trying to argue that two wrongs make a right. Regardless of how wrong you feel Bioware was for releasing a very buggy xpac, it DOES NOT EXCUSE the exploiting. The exploiting is WRONG, Bioware being wrong does not make the exploiting any less wrong. Two wrongs is always equal to a BIGGER wrong, not a right.

[euroDSMtuner]

i was talking about this quote of yours

 

the people who are doing the exploiting should be permanently banned and all their items and names deleted. It ends at the exploiters.

 

You need to just stop talking.

[ivanhedgehog]

There is a huge difference, and you know it. There is nothing about gaming software that is life threatening, bugs or not.

 

 

 

Are you claiming that Bioware has no pride or self respect in their work? Or are you simply applying an ad hominem attack on the dev team?

 

As MMO dev teams go, I personally find them to be quite focused on doing the best job they can do. Which does not mean no bug escapes nor excuse bugs in software. But let's be realistic... show me one modern software application of any reasonable complexity, used broadly by human beings, that does not have bugs that need patching, and exploits that humans take advantage of.... over and over again.

 

Personally, I would love bug free software, from every company, all the time. But as a modern consumer, I know that such expectations are unrealistic for consumer products.

 

And don't even get me started about software developers. Having herded them for years, or at least made a PMO level of effort to do so.. I find them to be among the most careless of engineering professionals. That is a generalization... but it holds a lot of truth. In my career, I would say about 5% of the software devs on my projects were outstanding, and very conscientious and superb code writers. 80% (give or take) are complete hacks and take little real pride in their work. The most often position taken by the hacks, in my experience, when held accountable for a serious bug is a shrug of their shoulders and an agreement to fix it. Most of them are arrogant and have an attitude of "it's up to others to find the bugs.. I simply code". The number of bad coders gives the good coders a bad name, and the list of bad coders I have personally kicked off of projects and requested replacements for over the years is very large. Iv'e even made cases to management that has resulted in termination or reassignment over some particularly egregious carelessness.

 

I never said they had no self respect. I think they have management problems and most likely lack of funding from EA. only so much you can do on a shoestring. the person that made the decision to go live with this already reported bug present should face at least question as to why. that is how an organization gets better. I dont see that happening though.

[ivanhedgehog]

Lol... even I found that funny. and I was the original poster to his comment.

 

thank you

[ivanhedgehog]

Yeah but the number of times needed to successfully RE something, unless you are VERY lucky, woukd really be the difference. You know how many mods you more then likely would need for the RE?

 

5

its a 20% chance..at least thats what the tool tip says

[Kryand]

And don't even get me started about software developers. Having herded them for years, or at least made a PMO level of effort to do so.. I find them to be among the most careless of engineering professionals. That is a generalization... but it holds a lot of truth. In my career, I would say about 5% of the software devs on my projects were outstanding, and very conscientious and superb code writers. 80% (give or take) are complete hacks and take little real pride in their work. The most often position taken by the hacks, in my experience, when held accountable for a serious bug is a shrug of their shoulders and an agreement to fix it. Most of them are arrogant and have an attitude of "it's up to others to find the bugs.. I simply code". The number of bad coders gives the good coders a bad name, and the list of bad coders I have personally kicked off of projects and requested replacements for over the years is very large. Iv'e even made cases to management that has resulted in termination or reassignment over some particularly egregious carelessness.

 

How big of a company was it? Skilled programmers go where the money is, so if it wasn't a major company, you probably got stuck with the mid-tier or lower programmers who couldn't hack it at a better job.

 

And your company probably still paid better than the average game developer, from what I hear from others in the industry. I'm sure that includes BioWare, if you know what I'm saying...

[XiamaraSimi]

5

its a 20% chance..at least thats what the tool tip says

 

Sadly this isn't true, multiple threads and posts about people REing 20-30 items and not learning a new one show just how untrue this is.

 

And yes, I've had several 20-30 no schematic RE runs myself

Edited January 11, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[lokimogor]

Sadly this isn't true, multiple threads and posts about people REing 20-30 items and not learning a new one show just how untrue this is.

 

And yes, I've had several 20-30 no schematic RE runs myself

 

This in no way proves that untrue that the re chance is 20% it just proves the failure of understanding statistics is weak in most of the swtor community

[Bradypan]

This in no way proves that untrue that the re chance is 20% it just proves the failure of understanding statistics is weak in most of the swtor community

 

I RE'd a Dread Forged Relic of Focused Retribution on the first try, pretty sure that means that there is a 100% chance to learn the schematic...

[Draqsko]

Sadly this isn't true, multiple threads and posts about people REing 20-30 items and not learning a new one show just how untrue this is.

 

I've had runs worse than that, even recently with the 186 gear (REing up from greens, so it's definately 20%). I've had one case, Force Wielder 36 hilt, I literally crafted 58 blues (since I queue up batches of 5 to RE for schema advancement and usually get extras from crits), and didn't get the RE until REing the 52nd one. The Resolve hilt, which I had RE'd right before that one, I RE'd on the first item attempted. My entire guild heard me cursing that Force Wielder hilt, but random chance is still random chance.

 

You have a 20% chance of winning = you have an 80% chance of losing.

Each chance is independant of any other one, regardless of whether you do 1, or do 100, or do 1000000 times, you still have an 80% chance of losing... every... single... time.

[ivanhedgehog]

Sadly this isn't true, multiple threads and posts about people REing 20-30 items and not learning a new one show just how untrue this is.

 

And yes, I've had several 20-30 no schematic RE runs myself

 

my worst was 81. But if you claim that on the forums you get called a liar

[Kourage]

The state of the game, DOES NOT EXCUSE exploiting it.

 

Everyone else doing it, DOES NOT EXCUSE exploiting it.

 

It doesn't really hurt anyone else, DOES NOT EXCUSE exploiting it.

 

Where the F do you people come up with this crap? Have you seriously never took responsibility for your own actions in your life ever? Because that's what this is looking like.

 

If you exploited, you broke TOS and deserve to face the consequences of that. What those consequences are, is ENTIRELY up to Bioware, but there needs to be consequences this time. They tried to act in good faith, by allowing us to continue to do the operation legitly (since it still worked legit) instead of locking it out entirely for the holidays until it was fixed. The way the exploit worked, there is no innocent partaker with the steps you have to take to make it work. The playerbase of this game (in general, it doesn't apply to everyone) totally abused the developers' good faith, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make it a future point to now lockdown operations that are exploitable yet still functioning legitly instead of letting people try to do that content as intended until there is a fix.

 

Infernixx, you disappoint me by trying to argue that two wrongs make a right. Regardless of how wrong you feel Bioware was for releasing a very buggy xpac, it DOES NOT EXCUSE the exploiting. The exploiting is WRONG, Bioware being wrong does not make the exploiting any less wrong. Two wrongs is always equal to a BIGGER wrong, not a right.

 

And you deserve to be left all alone on your server with nobody else to play with and all the stuff you bought will vanish with the servers that close down.

[euroDSMtuner]

And you deserve to be left all alone on your server with nobody else to play with and all the stuff you bought will vanish with the servers that close down.

 

This^

[Theeko]

And you deserve to be left all alone on your server with nobody else to play with and all the stuff you bought will vanish with the servers that close down.

 

Seems to be your defending exploiters hm. Go back to ESO you bum, exploiters ruined ESO and now look at it, it vanished before it even began.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Theeko

[undiess]

My god, over 41k views now.

 

Theres no way they will permanently ban so many people. Could definitely see a temp ban, could be a decently long temp ban to make up for the amount of gear they received. Highly doubt they're able to delete all the gear unless they do a really heavy handed delete of gear.

 

Agree that Bioware shares part of the blame, but also agree that people shouldn't exploit either way.

 

Don't think heavy handed delete of gear is appropriate because some people have worked over a year for their gear. Most of those that exploited would figure "why not have just banned me" and leave. Bioware probably doesn't want to make people leave, but rather pacify those with their pitchforks raised screaming for blood.

 

I do think it would be better to give non exploiters a perk rather than heavy handed punish exploiters, since i don't think this game is stable enough to take a substantial hit to the subscriber base.

 

all my thoughts.

Edited January 11, 2015 by undiess

[Aienir]

Seems to be your defending exploiters hm. Go back to ESO you bum, exploiters ruined ESO and now look at it, it vanished before it even began.

 

ESO vanished because it was a bad game run by bad developers making stupid decisions. Exploiters just made the ship sail sooner than it would have.

[Max_Killjoy]

Seems to be your defending exploiters hm. Go back to ESO you bum, exploiters ruined ESO and now look at it, it vanished before it even began.

 

And again you're assuming that anyone not in favor of a scorched-earth policy is "defending the exploiters"... or just unable to come up with anything better than that as a retort.

[Aussircaex]

I suggest decimation. Divide all the exploiters into groups of ten, and have nine of them beat the tenth to death.