Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 So, since its a game, your contention there is no right or wrong? Its truly amazing the lengths people will go to justify cheating, and refuse any personal accountability for breaking the rules. God forbid. It always is amazing, yes. The sad part is, that BW will do absolutely nothing, and the when the next exploit comes along (it always does) even more people are going to abuse it because they know nothing will happen. Either they come down hard on these people, or essentially condoen it, there is no middle ground in this. Blizzard for example has learned this the hard way, and had to dish out some serious banhammer in the past. I'm not affected because I haven't even done ops since 3.0 as I just came back to the game, so on a personal level I don't care either way, but from experience I know if they don't punish these people severely it iwll only get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalfax Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I got accused of being a cheater in a raid last night because I have 4 pieces of 198 gear on my merc. The insults came as whispers. I was stunned. Do players not realize how easy it is to cap ult comms each week? I haven't even tried the new ops yet. This "hang anyone with 198 gear" mentality needs to stop. This thread is a setup for that kind of community mob hate. Anyone who doesn't agree with the harshest measures is accused of being an exploiter. IMO those who used the exploit ruin there own game experience. They don't effect my game in any significant way. Let BW deal with them. Harassment does affect my game however. I don't like being accused of being an "exploiter" or watching others being treated that way. That is a very serious insult where I come from. I personally feel that anyone in this thread who has accused someone of being an "exploiter" without proof should be banned from the forums or at least get a warning about forum etiquette. I really can't wait for this whole thing to blow over. Edited January 9, 2015 by Zalfax typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I really can't wait for this whole thing to blow over. It won't if BW doesn't dish out rightoues punishment. Trust me, I've seen it before. Those that cannot stand cheaters in online games will continue to harass and insult anyone they think might have cheated unless serious action is taken. Edited January 9, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) You folks are so wrapped around the axle on this right now, you have lost all objectivity. Go back and read Eric's post. Clearly, they counted on being able to keep exploit information contained and localized (as has generally been true in the past) until they decided what to do about it. Further... if you read carefully, Eric basically stated that this one got away from them and some clever and enterprising players have managed to proliferate the exploit (to what actual degree = unknown to us). A) hindsight being 20/20, if they could roll back time and do it over.... I'm sure they would have handled it somewhat differently. B) They will fix it, and they will review and decide who exploited, and what they will do about it. C) None of the discussion in this thread will have absolutely any affect on how they fix it or what they decide to do. This is the big fallacy in gaming forums... thinking that players can dictate terms and conditions of action by Bioware (either positively or negatively). This thread however is good entertainment. It also collects all the sheeples in one stable to chew each others wool off each others backsides. Think about it... they allow this thread to continue as a distraction magnet for the polarized community over an issue that is quasi-known, and which will have no long term effect upon the game whatsoever. IF... IF... the exploit has been one that saturated the economy with new credits... it would never have been allowed to persist. Thing is.. this does not appear to be the case here... which is likely why Bioware does not see the severity of impact to the game that some of you are projecting. Edited January 9, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Because "Everybody is doing it"... Nope, most of us don't cheat, enjoy your upcoming ban. And frankly the entire raiding community is only a rounding error on the books. You mean nothing, Wall Street would not even notice you missing.im excited to see your posts after no one is banned they should be even better.Raiders are not a major part and not all raiders cheated. um...what is your fascination with "raiders" ? am i to assume that you believe only raiders can use this exploit? in which case...lol? Edited January 9, 2015 by Pagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It won't if BW doesn't dish out rightoues punishment. Trust me, I've seen it before. Those that cannot stand cheaters in online games will continue to harass and insult anyone they think might have cheated unless serious action is taken. AND... players will be banned for harassment. Attempted vigilante justice in MMOs is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 AND... players will be banned for harassment. Attempted vigilante justice in MMOs is hilarious. Not to those who are identified as cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I got accused of being a cheater in a raid last night because I have 4 pieces of 198 gear on my merc. The insults came as whispers. I was stunned. Do players not realize how easy it is to cap ult comms each week? I haven't even tried the new ops yet. This "hang anyone with 198 gear" mentality needs to stop. This thread is a setup for that kind of community mob hate. Anyone who doesn't agree with the harshest measures is accused of being an exploiter. IMO those who used the exploit ruin there own game experience. They don't effect my game in any significant way. Let BW deal with them. Harassment does affect my game however. I don't like being accused of being an "exploiter" or watching others being treated that way. That is a very serious insult where I come from. I personally feel that anyone in this thread who has accused someone of being an "exploiter" without proof should be banned from the forums or at least get a warning about forum etiquette. I really can't wait for this whole thing to blow over. This is why we want the exploiters banned. Otherwise the legitimate are called exploiters if they have gear and if they don't they are second class "casual". Ban um all the stockholders will not even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) If the entire raiding community is only a rounding error on the books, then the "damage" done to the game and to other players by those who used the exploit is non-existent. But by all means, let's continue calling for the heads of people who have taken advantage of an exploit that had absolutely no negative effect on the gameplay of anyone else. Simply using the exploit is a negative and should not be tolerated. Cheating is still cheating no matter how you spin it. Some gamers broke clearly defined rules and rules they know to be wrong. If they didn't expect a ban their stupid. People are mad, it's hilarious... I can't *********** wait until Tuesday... Same here. I really don't expect anything big to happen to all the cheaters and exploiters but I sure hope it does. If you are a gamer at all they knew it was wrong no matter how long it takes BW to fix or even talk about it. It's wrong in every MMo - ever. Edited January 9, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Not to those who are identified as cheaters. You don't have access to the data logs.. so you do not know that. None of us do. You are simply trying to inflame the discussion. Edited January 9, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This is why we want the exploiters banned. Otherwise the legitimate are called exploiters if they have gear and if they don't they are second class "casual". Ban um all the stockholders will not even notice. Oh believe me they would. I don't think you know how rampant the abuse really was. Most of the vent conversations I've heard from Harbinger have revolved around abusing the exploit - and these were some of the biggest guilds on there (which I will not name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) You don't have access to the data logs.. so you do not know that. None of us do. You are simply trying to inflame the discussion. Well, if someone *likes* harassment, I suppose that's ok... but I don't really get your reply. If you really think word doesn't get around which guild exploited, you're just plain delusional. Edited January 9, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) There was NO PTS for 3.0. There was a closed beta test however. In the hyperbole and passion of this thread.... facts ARE important. As for their alleged decision to go live anyway..... yeah.. I probably would not hold up a major release for something like this. Why? because the policy on exploits is to be very low key about them.. not even acknowledge them so as to avoid spreading word about them. Sure.. that approach is a gamble... but as a commercial gamble for a business.. it's generally low risk and has worked for years. As for their taking so long after 3.0 release to fix it.... ummm.. people seem to forget that they had/have a number of big issues with the release of 3.0 that actually affect peoples ability to play the game. If I was the PM on this project, I would not be putting my resources on stomping out exploits ahead of fixing major things like ability lag. I'm not saying that they made the right choice ultimately here... BUT... hindsight is always 20/20 whereas prelease and early post release creates actual fog in the process of addressing and fixing issues with complex software. Players.. well players are happy to prosecute using hindsight (pretending they are somehow prescient gods of the MMO world ) Fact: Activision Blizzard typically hotfixes exploits of this type in WoW in hours; not weeks, not a month plus, and never with a 'we know about it but still won't fix it until next week' post. Fact: EA is a major company with access to similar resources as Activision Blizzard and has the means to provide adequate staff to address these types of issues in a similar manner. Fact: EA chooses not to provide the resources required to address these issues in a timely manner - key word being 'chooses'. Edited January 9, 2015 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Those that cannot stand cheaters in online games will continue to harass and insult anyone they think might have cheated unless serious action is taken. I'd rather have the cheaters than internet bullies. You have no right to harass and insult others. I hope they ban YOU instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Fact: EA chooses not to provide the resources required to address these issues in a timely manner - key word being 'chooses'. Hey don't put any blame on BW/EA, having responsibility lies only with the players! This whole situation reminds me of an armored money car tipping over and people running to pick up spilled cash. Arrest them all and ban them from using their bank accounts right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I'd rather have the cheaters than internet bullies. You have no right to harass and insult others. I hope they ban YOU instead. What? I haven't harassed anyone. In fact, I haven't sent a single WHISPER to anyone since I came back. As I said, I personally don't care either way. Just saying what I've seen happen in other games. Great example? SWG FRS exploiters. Even YEARS after, once they sold their account or someone else used it, they would get hateful whispers. In WoW, entire guilds have been labeled as exploiters and many guilds have had to change their name because of it. All I'm saying is, do not underestimate the lenghts people will go to but, again, I don't personally care because it doesn't affect me in any shape or form. Edited January 9, 2015 by Jandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh believe me they would. I don't think you know how rampant the abuse really was. Most of the vent conversations I've heard from Harbinger have revolved around abusing the exploit - and these were some of the biggest guilds on there (which I will not name) What is it with your people who think stockholders get involved with company operations? They don't. Most don't even bother to vote for the officers, they just use the proxy. As far as number of people, this was raiders, not even casual raiders. The vast majority of the player base has not even been to the new ops. EA really has to ban you guys, they have no choice. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 What is it with your people who think stockholders get involved with company operations? They don't. Most don't even bother to vote for the officers, they just use the proxy. As far as number of people, this was raiders, not even casual raiders. The vast majority of the player base has not even been to the new ops. EA really has to ban you guys, they have no choice. Bye. Money talks. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Well, if someone *likes* harassment, I suppose that's ok... but I don't really get your reply. If you really think word doesn't get around which guild exploited, you're just plain delusional. Word getting around is one thing. Harassing other players based on hearsay..... not only wrong, but against the ToS/EULA and an actionable offense. By all means though.. feel free to walk your talk and see what happens. But I digress.. again.. you are simply trying to fan the flames in the thread. Careful... because you are very close to publicly encouraging player harassment.. which could be an actionable forum offense. Edited January 9, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 As far as number of people, this was raiders, not even casual raiders. I take it you didn't know about the 500-alt guilds that don't raid, but still ran the exploit on all of their toons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) What is it with your people who think stockholders get involved with company operations? They don't. Most don't even bother to vote for the officers, they just use the proxy. True.. but that does not legitimize your draconian position. As far as number of people, this was raiders, not even casual raiders. The vast majority of the player base has not even been to the new ops. EA really has to ban you guys, they have no choice. Hearsay and making personal accusations. This approach discredits your position. Edited January 9, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Money talks. Bye. Trivial amounts don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Word getting around is one thing. Harassing other players based on hearsay..... not only wrong, but against the ToS/EULA and an actionable offense. Yes because that CLEARLY stopped people from exploiting AMITIRE? Get back to reality, you're being laughable. By all means though.. feel free to walk your talk and see what happens. I've never said I would do such a thing, the complete opposite in fact. But I digress.. again.. you are simply trying to fan the flames in the thread. Careful... because you are very close to publicly encouraging player harassment.. which could be an actionable forum offense. So... saying what I've seen happen before is encouraging *anything*? Please, I'm simply.... enthralled with your logic. Do elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simcity Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Trivial amounts don't. I believe you're not thinking of the ramifications beyond just a simple ban to a significant player population. We're talking about sub money, CM money, friends who will not play because their friends left money This whole thing has the potential to cascade into something much bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Hearsay and making personal accusations. This approach discredits your position. The lashing out and accusing anyone who posts anything that's not in favor of the hammer being dropped on everyone involved or possibly involved of being "one of the exploiters trying to cover" -- is one of the things that's made me progress from "I don't see the big deal, don't care much" to "I hope no one is banned, this is ridiculous and borderline insane". In these threads, we've had people suggest that all high-end mods and mats should be stripped from all players to be certain no one benefits from the "cheating". We've had people say that anyone who purchased the suspect materials or mods on GTN should be considered part of the "cheating". We've had people say they're OK with the innocent being banned as long as all the "guilty" get nailed. We've had people say that if this somehow did permanent damage to SWTOR, that's OK as long as "justice" is done. Edited January 9, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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