regarding punishment for exploit

[HiltoftheDragon]

I didn't care at first, but the overblown outrage and the ridiculous demands for "death penalty" (Permaban! Strip them of all gear! Take away levels!) punishments have pushed me to be in favor if Bioware doing nothing at all to anyone who took part.

 

Silver medalist of best post of this thread.

 

It seems people cant following simple instructions to not start this topic on these forums. Its become mind numbing at its worse. Im very surprised this thread still exist.

[grombrinda]

And punish all the customers not exploiting?

 

It (the exploit) was obvious, it was a choice.

 

It (the exploit) was a bad choice...

 

You see all of the post above mine??

 

If Ea/Bio would have shut down the ops, none of this would be happening, and they probably would've rolled a fix a lot faster. Instead we got something like 3 weeks of this exploit being used??

 

It is always a wiser choice to make a temp problem , than roll the dice and end up with a huge mess!

 

I'm sorry but I still view this as EA/Bio dropping the ball by fault of non-action....

[RandomXChance]

If they cop out and give light punishment just because "exploiters were subscribers" that would only breed more contempt amongst the player base and in turn breed an atmosphere for players to just go full throttle on the next exploit. If they do not come down hard on this exploit then the next big one will blow up in such a way that it will make this one look minimal in size of player abuse.

 

I want them to nail every exploiters hides to the wall and hold them up like a trophy kills.

 

Look at the past history in every MMO and you will see that most of the time exploits like this are dealt with by temporary bans and that is about it. It is not a cop out, it is a matter of business. They cannot hand out a punishment that will satisfy those who want blood without endangering the overall health of the game by driving away a lot of subscribers with a harsh punishment.

 

Yes, punishments are due, but going for blood will not benefit the game in the long run.

 

There will be also those who took part unknowingly. Just a hypothetical , what if someone took a 4 month break from the game and when they returned two weeks ago, a guild mate said "hey check this out". The guild mate sets up the exploit and tells them to walk in. Now they are guilty without even realizing. Does Bioware ban them too? I doubt their tracking of this will be fine grained enough to tell the difference.

[Kryand]

If they cop out and give light punishment just because "exploiters were subscribers" that would only breed more contempt amongst the player base and in turn breed an atmosphere for players to just go full throttle on the next exploit. If they do not come down hard on this exploit then the next big one will blow up in such a way that it will make this one look minimal in size of player abuse.

 

I want them to nail every exploiters hides to the wall and hold them up like a trophy kills.

 

It's sad that this argument assumes that there will be another major game-breaking exploit that goes unfixed for weeks.

 

I mean, you're probably right, but personally I think it would be a little smarter on BioWare's part to worry about actually testing their content before releasing it and fixing any exploits promptly. This situation should be a lesson to them that taking an extended vacation immediately after a major and sloppy content release is not a smart move.

 

Whether they severely punish the exploiters and sabotage their own subscriber base, killing their game for good, or do nothing and have to deal with a vocal minority of whiners spamming the forums (but still staying subbed), all we can do is hope that they learn from the outcome.

[Foambreaker]

I'm just curious to see if BW comes down hard on their subscriber base. Because, to be blunt, most of those taking advantage of the exploit were subscribers.

 

And how many of those subscribers buy heavily from the Cartel Market?

 

There's a fine line here that needs to be carefully tread.

 

A lot less people "did it" than the people who "did it" want you to think. Many players have not even been to the location yet, and many more are not brain dead stupid.

 

The number of banning's will be a financial rounding error in the big picture.

 

It seems worse on the forums because of the arrogant l33t elite, most of whom are guilty

[CommanderKeeva]

Bioware has a conundrum on their hands.....

 

Problem #1 - They did not react in ANY fashion to the exploit, whether by disabling the operation when the exploit surfaced until they could fix it, or by simply acknowledging that they knew it existed and would get it fixed asap and warned of punitive action ahead of time.

 

Problem #2 - Because of problem #1, the exploit has been allowed to remain on the live servers, with NO response from the developers/CM team for a long time. This has caused the reach of the exploit to make it to a large population of the playerbase.

 

Problem #3 - Because of problem #2, most of the playerbase either KNOWS about the exploit, or has done it themselves. This has caused a polarization of the playerbase, with two very different opinions:

 

Opinion 1- The game lets me do it, so I am going to use the loot pinata.

Opinion 2- You're using something obviously not working as intended, so you should be punished for what you're doing.

 

Problem #4 - Because of problems #1 & #3, Bioware has been "forced" into a position of having to REACT instead of being able to be PROACTIVE.

 

Problem #5 - Because of problem #4, Bioware has to now scramble with a way to both fix the exploit so it doesn't keep happening, AND find a way to appease the population of the playerbase who hold Opinion 2 by "punishing" the people who exploited, while at the same time, not enacting a "punishment" that is so harsh that they lose the people who hold Opinion 1 in the process. It's a rough spot they put themselves in, as they are not going to make anyone "happy" without losing paying customers, which isn't something Bioware wants to do.

 

I don't have any sympathy for Bioware with the position they've put themselves in, for the sole purpose that you can trace everything back to PROBLEM #1.

 

The Story Mode exploit in MY mind, is not as a big of a deal. It's not top-end gear, and clearing the operation is something that most of the raiders in the game are capable of doing. So it's not "cheesing" or "exploiting" content you can't clear.... It's shortening the gear grind. Still questionable if you ask me, but not so "devious"....

 

The Hard Mode exploit is a little more interesting.... Because, there are SO FEW people that have cleared the content to even have access to the lockout. Also, someone (or someones) have transferred that lockout across servers and there are many instances of it being sold. It's for top-tier gear, that 99% of the game's population isn't capable of clearing right now.... Who is to blame for that? Well.... there's only so many people who have cleared the content legitimately, so that wouldn't be hard to figure out.

 

All that said.... It still comes back to the simple statement that: All of this could have been avoided, if Bioware had addressed the issue early on, instead of pretending like it didn't exist. And fresh on the heels of being told that the "Early Access" that we all paid actual real-world money for, they viewed as "Pay-to-Beta" and released a buggy, partially finished product to us and called it "done" and that we got what we paid for.

 

I'm still a SWTOR fanboy... But... this whole situation that they let go on for far too long... No matter what they do, it's going to end badly.

 

I wish I could have summed up the problem so nicely. Go on, Bioware, hire this guy for your PR department, he actually seems to know what he's doing.

[Foambreaker]

You see all of the post above mine??

 

If Ea/Bio would have shut down the ops, none of this would be happening, and they probably would've rolled a fix a lot faster. Instead we got something like 3 weeks of this exploit being used??

 

It is always a wiser choice to make a temp problem , than roll the dice and end up with a huge mess!

 

I'm sorry but I still view this as EA/Bio dropping the ball by fault of non-action....

 

People choose to cheat in an obvious way, EA is not too blame. People need to grow up and own their mistakes.

 

This crew reminds me of Barry Bonds

[RandomXChance]

A lot less people "did it" than the people who "did it" want you to think. Many players have not even been to the location yet, and many more are not brain dead stupid.

 

The number of banning's will be a financial rounding error in the big picture.

 

It seems worse on the forums because of the arrogant l33t elite, most of whom are guilty

 

So, um, did you even read the dev post about the exploit being much more widespread than past exploits and that is the reason they have openly brought it up?

[Bugattiboy]

Because that would have required common sense and/or quick thinking. Neither of which EAware has demonstrated lately.

"lately" implies that a given event has happened at least once before.

 

I'm just curious to see if BW comes down hard on their subscriber base. Because, to be blunt, most of those taking advantage of the exploit were subscribers.

 

And how many of those subscribers buy heavily from the Cartel Market?

 

There's a fine line here that needs to be carefully tread.

They won't, because like you said, they are subscribers. While the CM does generate a lot of revenue, I don't think the game could survive on it alone.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Bugattiboy

[Kirazy]

They won't, because like you said, they are subscribers. While the CM does generate a lot of revenue, I don't think the game could survive on it alone.

 

The heaviest users of the CM are Subscribers, not F2P players.

[Hiro-Protagonist]

Those who didn't use the exploit and had ample opportunities to do so, like myself, already have the reward of knowing that they earned their own gear instead of cheesing it. I could care less if they punish or don't punish the exploiters. Edited January 8, 2015 by Hiro-Protagonist

[Kirazy]

Those who didn't use the exploit and had ample opportunities to do so, like myself, already have the reward of knowing that they earned their own gear instead of cheesing it. I could care less if they punish or don't punish the exploiters.

 

You can have the best gear in the game. It won't matter if you're a total stick and don't know mechanics. Progression, regardless of exploit, is still a thing. You still have to learn the mechanics and then do the fights. Gear may make that slightly less painful, but it's still something you have to work for and no amount of exploit will replace that.

[Infernixx]

So, um, did you even read the dev post about the exploit being much more widespread than past exploits and that is the reason they have openly brought it up?

 

you're going to ruin his delusion if you keep pointing out reality like that.

[euroDSMtuner]

This:

 

Do not “test” the exploit yourself. Even a single occurrence of using an exploit can lead to action being taken against your account.

 

So even if you didn't abuse it, your still F'd. This ought to be interesting.

[Aienir]

This:

 

 

 

So even if you didn't abuse it, your still F'd. This ought to be interesting.

 

Re-read that, it says "can". It means that they may or may not take action on a single use or not. We have no idea what they will do in the end.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Who are you competing against in HM Ops? I'm confused.

 

Catch back up to what? Gear levels? Again, I'm confused.

 

Another raid group or end game raider's gear has no effect on your group or gear. No matter how they got the gear. The only area of this game where the gear of one player can actually affect the game experience of another player is in PVP. That is actually competition. You know how I know? Because at the end of each WZ or Arena it say Win or Lose. I've been playing since launch and I've never seen Win or Lose appear at the end of any FP or OP I've done.

 

Not to mention, better gear doesn't change how bad or less skilled players handle FP and/or OP mechanics.

 

So, I ask again, who are you competing against?

 

You see "LF 1 dps for OP" in fleet chat. You are a DPS so you reply.

 

You don't exploit. You have 45k HP in 186s, and 180s where the terribad stats on 186s render the 180s an upgrade from the 186s that are supposed to be "better."

 

But the group also got another whisper from the exploiter with about 52k HP, 192s, who farmed the exploit enough to RE the min-max enhancements. Of course the exploiter's not going to come out and say he exploited, but he will almost always get the spot over you because, even though you should be able to clear the encounter without being carried (I don't think the "Recommended Gear Level" assumes optimization, and even if it did, it would be nigh impossible with the current abomination of comm gear), the exploiter will have the gear to clear the content faster and easier than you can.

 

The only situation in which you might be able to compete with the exploiters in that situation is if you already have a superb reputation for skill that can overcome the gear deficit. It isn't necessarily enough to just have the skill, you have to be widely known on the server enough that a group would take you over someone with better gear.

 

For those of us who had hoped to use the gear reset inherent in an expansion to break into endgame PVE content, we might well have the skill, but that skill is unknown to those who are throwing the invites, so it makes the exploiters that much more likely to get invited over people who followed normal gear progression.

 

Full disclosure: I bought a single 192 might hilt off GTN and several optimized 186 enhancements off GTN about five or six days ago, well before Bioware published its exploit warning, and only surmised the vague nature of this exploit by reading the first 35 pages of this thread just now. I've yet to set foot in an op since 3.0 as tomorrow will be my first opportunity, due to RL, to even attempt that. (In December, I was busy leveling and PVP gearing my PVP main so I'm not counting that.) I have no reason to believe I violated the ToS or would normally be punished as such, as I figured the hilts and enhancements I purchased on GTN were RE'd from either the offhand comms saber (hilt) or HP FP/SM ops drops (the 186 enhancements). I assumed that nearly a month after the expansion was released, that those schematics would be out there legit by now when I made my purchases. I may, however, suffer "collateral damage" punishment if Bioware 1) goes the most extreme route of banhammering everyone who used or benefited from the exploit, and 2) is able to track where individual hilts/enhancements traded on the GTN came from (and I'm unlucky enough to have bought from an exploiter, even if I should not have been expected to know; at the time I bought the hilt I think there were only two sellers on my server).

 

I only bought the hilt/enhancements for one toon so it's not like I went out there and geared 15 alts through GTN flooding. Though it would be nice to know if there are legit sources for properly optimized 186 enhancements (mods, for that matter, too) that end up on GTN. I'll take this thread as further notice not to go shopping for 192s until after Bioware has addressed this (one way or the other).

Edited January 8, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[Raniq]

Having read many of the posts on this thread I find people fall into two camps. The first camp believes:

1. We should be upset with Bioware

2. We should reward cheaters/exploiters (because it's Bioware's fault they chose to cheat)

3. We should punish honest players by letting cheaters/exploiters unfairly profit without consequence.

(For those that profess they don't really care one way or the other if cheaters/exploiters are punished, you basically fall into this camp by default.)

The second camp believes:

1. We should be upset with Bioware

2. We should punish cheaters/exploiters.

3. We should reward/encourage honest players.

I must admit I fall into the second camp. As such, I would like to see the punishments listed below imposed on those that significantly abused this exploit. I say "significantly" because what I'm recommending is severe and shouldn't really be imposed on those that used the exploit once or twice, either out of curiosity or to see if it really did work. Others may feel less forgiving. For the record, while I am fully aware of the exploit and how it works (as are a LOT of folks), I have never used it.

 

1. A seven day Tuesday to Tuesday account suspension.

2. All 186 gear, mods, armorings, barrels, hilts, relics, implants, MK-10 kits, "36" augments, etc. deleted. This would include any armor pieces containing or modified by these items. This would also include anything equipped on companions, in cargo holds, or in legacy cargo holds. I am aware this would include gear earned legitimately from DF/DP and PVP gear. I did say "severe" punishment.

3. All grade 11 crafting materials (including Operation drops) deleted.

4. Credit levels set to either the amount a toon had the day 3.0 went live, or current amount, whichever is less.

5. Reputation for Rishi / Yavin reset to zero. All reputation tokens/items deleted. All achievements/titles connected to 3.0 reset.

6. All comms reset to 0 except for Basic Comms. Basic comms would be set to 1000 or the amount a toon had the day 3.0 went live, whichever is less. This allows them to purchase some basic gear.

7. Account suspension from all global chat channels (general, trade, etc.) for 30 days. This would also counts as a huge reward for those not guilty of using the exploit. :-)

 

Now, these folks can then recover all their gear though dailies, ops, FPs, battlegournds, etc., it will just take most of them quite some time. Also, they can recover any CM items purchased with Cartel Coins from collections. They will be able to start farming mats, crafting replacement items, trading with friends / guildies, etc. As an indirect bonus, this will reward many of the honest players by creating a rather large uptick in demand for crafted gear and mats.

 

Finally, if it was possible, it would also be nice for those that didn't use the exploit to receive the following:

1. A Chalice of Honesty (pub) / Honor (imp) decoration, or some equivalent cosmetic item.

2. The title "Honest". (anyone who managed to create a toon with the name "Abe" or similar would LOVE this. And no, I'm not one of those people. lol ).

 

And yes, my torch is lit, and I just finished sharpening my pitchfork.

[grombrinda]

People choose to cheat in an obvious way, EA is not too blame. People need to grow up and own their mistakes.

 

This crew reminds me of Barry Bonds

 

I am not saying people did not cheat, but if you read the post they put out, they knew about the bug, it was reported by some testers, and what did they do about it?? Nothing...

 

It's their product, their name is on the game, it falls unto them to make and keep it fair for everyone. Will there be more stuff like this? Yup. But that does not mean they should put less effort into their product.

[Infernixx]

Having read many of the posts on this thread I find people fall into two camps. The first camp believes:

1. We should be upset with Bioware

2. We should reward cheaters/exploiters (because it's Bioware's fault they chose to cheat)

3. We should punish honest players by letting cheaters/exploiters unfairly profit without consequence.

(For those that profess they don't really care one way or the other if cheaters/exploiters are punished, you basically fall into this camp by default.)

The second camp believes:

1. We should be upset with Bioware

2. We should punish cheaters/exploiters.

3. We should reward/encourage honest players.

I must admit I fall into the second camp. As such, I would like to see the punishments listed below imposed on those that significantly abused this exploit. I say "significantly" because what I'm recommending is severe and shouldn't really be imposed on those that used the exploit once or twice, either out of curiosity or to see if it really did work. Others may feel less forgiving. For the record, while I am fully aware of the exploit and how it works (as are a LOT of folks), I have never used it.

 

1. A seven day Tuesday to Tuesday account suspension.

2. All 186 gear, mods, armorings, barrels, hilts, relics, implants, MK-10 kits, "36" augments, etc. deleted. This would include any armor pieces containing or modified by these items. This would also include anything equipped on companions, in cargo holds, or in legacy cargo holds. I am aware this would include gear earned legitimately from DF/DP and PVP gear. I did say "severe" punishment.

3. All grade 11 crafting materials (including Operation drops) deleted.

4. Credit levels set to either the amount a toon had the day 3.0 went live, or current amount, whichever is less.

5. Reputation for Rishi / Yavin reset to zero. All reputation tokens/items deleted. All achievements/titles connected to 3.0 reset.

6. All comms reset to 0 except for Basic Comms. Basic comms would be set to 1000 or the amount a toon had the day 3.0 went live, whichever is less. This allows them to purchase some basic gear.

7. Account suspension from all global chat channels (general, trade, etc.) for 30 days. This would also counts as a huge reward for those not guilty of using the exploit. :-)

 

Now, these folks can then recover all their gear though dailies, ops, FPs, battlegournds, etc., it will just take most of them quite some time. Also, they can recover any CM items purchased with Cartel Coins from collections. They will be able to start farming mats, crafting replacement items, trading with friends / guildies, etc. As an indirect bonus, this will reward many of the honest players by creating a rather large uptick in demand for crafted gear and mats.

 

Finally, if it was possible, it would also be nice for those that didn't use the exploit to receive the following:

1. A Chalice of Honesty (pub) / Honor (imp) decoration, or some equivalent cosmetic item.

2. The title "Honest". (anyone who managed to create a toon with the name "Abe" or similar would LOVE this. And no, I'm not one of those people. lol ).

 

And yes, my torch is lit, and I just finished sharpening my pitchfork.

 

I can sincerely say that you'd kill the game to gain satisfaction.

[Andryah]

I am not saying people did not cheat, but if you read the post they put out, they knew about the bug, it was reported by some testers, and what did they do about it?? Nothing...

 

It's their product, their name is on the game, it falls unto them to make and keep it fair for everyone. Will there be more stuff like this? Yup. But that does not mean they should put less effort into their product.

 

Bioware is somewhat guilty of having too much faith and trust in their player community. They likely were up against an unplanned delay in 3.0 release OR trusting in players to either not get to the content so quickly (we've seen this flaw in Bioware before) or doing the right thing when they do get there. In other words.. they thought they had some time to address it (right or wrong is immaterial).

 

I think it is hilarious that some players are blaming Bioware and trying to negotiate extreme terms (either way) on the matter. Bioware will fix the problem and will review and take actions where THEY determine it is appropriate. Players thinking they have a say in the penalty/actions process are completely nutz IMO. Players doubling down with hollow threats are even sillier IMO.

 

You know the great part though... the community, generally speaking, has the attention span of hamsters... so in a few weeks nobody will even remember this.. much less treat it as a world breaking tragedy.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Andryah

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I only bought the hilt/enhancements for one toon so it's not like I went out there and geared 15 alts through GTN flooding. Though it would be nice to know if there are legit sources for properly optimized 186 enhancements (mods, for that matter, too) that end up on GTN. I'll take this thread as further notice not to go shopping for 192s until after Bioware has addressed this (one way or the other).

 

I think you're in the clear with 192's since I believe they are SM equivalent gear and it would be too impossible for them to also start policing SM content - the focus would have to be on HM content unless they have an even easier way of tracking who got what than I can think of but even then they aren't going to punish people who bought items off the GTN since you've done NOTHING wrong,you've exploited nothing.

 

Those going into ops and picking up gear they KNOW they didn't earn are the ones knowingly exploiting the game and the ones who are up for punishment of some ilk.

[Kirazy]

You see "LF 1 dps for OP" in fleet chat. You are a DPS so you reply.

 

You don't exploit. You have 45k HP in 186s, and 180s where the terribad stats on 186s render the 180s an upgrade from the 186s that are supposed to be "better."

 

But the group also got another whisper from the exploiter with about 52k HP, 192s, who farmed the exploit enough to RE the min-max enhancements. Of course the exploiter's not going to come out and say he exploited, but he will almost always get the spot over you because, even though you should be able to clear the encounter without being carried (I don't think the "Recommended Gear Level" assumes optimization, and even if it did, it would be nigh impossible with the current abomination of comm gear), the exploiter will have the gear to clear the content faster and easier than you can.

 

Do you run operations? Do you organize operations? Like, I can't even. As someone who regularly organizes pug runs, I can't care less about someone's gear as long as they meet min-reqs. The only time I care is when, after several wipes it becomes VERY clear who can't do the job. And then it's almost always not a gear issue, but a learn-to-play issue. I invite based on first-come, first-serve. Rarely make gear inquiries.

 

Also, ideal HP is actually closer to 49-50k. Higher than that indicates you are using commendation gear that is unoptimized in the extreme, and is endurance heavy. HP is NOT a good indicator for gear quality, only a very superficial indicator that they have minimum-spec gear.

 

The only situation in which you might be able to compete with the exploiters in that situation is if you already have a superb reputation for skill that can overcome the gear deficit. It isn't necessarily enough to just have the skill, you have to be widely known on the server enough that a group would take you over someone with better gear.

 

For those of us who had hoped to use the gear reset inherent in an expansion to break into endgame PVE content, we might well have the skill, but that skill is unknown to those who are throwing the invites, so it makes the exploiters that much more likely to get invited over people who followed normal gear progression.

 

Full disclosure: I bought a single 192 might hilt off GTN and several optimized 186 enhancements off GTN about five or six days ago, well before Bioware published its exploit warning, and only surmised the vague nature of this exploit by reading the first 35 pages of this thread just now. I've yet to set foot in an op since 3.0 as tomorrow will be my first opportunity, due to RL, to even attempt that. (In December, I was busy leveling and PVP gearing my PVP main so I'm not counting that.) I have no reason to believe I violated the ToS or would normally be punished as such, as I figured the hilts and enhancements I purchased on GTN were RE'd from either the offhand comms saber (hilt) or HP FP/SM ops drops (the 186 enhancements). I assumed that nearly a month after the expansion was released, that those schematics would be out there legit by now when I made my purchases. I may, however, suffer "collateral damage" punishment if Bioware 1) goes the most extreme route of banhammering everyone who used or benefited from the exploit, and 2) is able to track where individual hilts/enhancements traded on the GTN came from (and I'm unlucky enough to have bought from an exploiter, even if I should not have been expected to know; at the time I bought the hilt I think there were only two sellers on my server).

 

I only bought the hilt/enhancements for one toon so it's not like I went out there and geared 15 alts through GTN flooding. Though it would be nice to know if there are legit sources for properly optimized 186 enhancements (mods, for that matter, too) that end up on GTN. I'll take this thread as further notice not to go shopping for 192s until after Bioware has addressed this (one way or the other).

 

Why are you talking about 186 stuff? Operations drop 192 or 198 gear, not 186. The exploit concerns the operations only, not flashpoints. 186 is equivalent to the former Arkanian, and is something you want to get out of about as fast as you can possibly manage. Which is not difficult at all. Before the exploit was common knowledge I was in full 192 with set bonuses. If you run the ops gearing is easy. The exploit largely benefits players who suck at raiding.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Kirazy

[Kirazy]

I can sincerely say that you'd kill the game to gain satisfaction.

 

Ikr? Shortsighted.

[Infernixx]

By the way, yes, the players have an equal say in the matter. If the punishment is seen as too severe, subscribers will take off and find other games to play.

 

And subscribers are the biggest spenders on the CM.

[RiVaN_]

If this is your general opinion why even bother posting? Go play the game or do something else because all you are doing is increasing the post count for no constructive reason to the original discussion. If you don't care then don't care, don't post about not caring, it wastes everyone's time.

 

I'm giving my opinion, it's an open forum and I live in a country where we have the freedom of speech. In my opinion people are completely over reacting, in every direction and in every way, people are over reacting. I was simply stating that, as I am allowed to do.

 

The people that "do not care" AND have no opinion on the matter are not posting in this thread....because they do not care and have no opinion on the matter.

 

If you are posting in this thread, you likely care, have an opinion on the matter or both. To try and claim otherwise is absurd.

 

I have an opinion, my opinion is Who cares and why does it matter so much, it's just a game. That is my opinion and seeing as this is a free and open, public forum I am allowed to voice that opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So again, to the community, why is all this such a big deal? When it is all over BW is still a business and they are going to do what is in their business model, what is best for their bottom line and their plans for the future.

 

 

Sit back, play the game and just be you, playing the game.

A number of SWTOR people are also key leaders on the Shadow Realms team, I think we aren't their most important project at the moment.

SWTOR is an active product with paying subscribers and a healthy bottom line due to the cartel market, so they have moved on the the next big thing. Most of the Devs are probably looking to move on to a new title with more promising results just like some of their peers have already begun to do.

 

They have started checking out because they are looking for their "next big thing," They don't truly care about SWTOR anymore.

So again I ask, why do all you care so much? Just check out and wait for the next big thing.