regarding punishment for exploit

[AMulls]

The righteous indignation about this situation is cracking me up. I've yet to see anyone actually explain to me how their game experience has been affected in any way by people taking advantage of this exploit. The economy is broken? No. One small section of the economy is slightly affected. Kind of like the influx of oil by OPEC in the real economy. Oil prices dropped, so gas prices dropped, but not much of an overall effect on the economy as a whole.

 

Unfair advantage over the non-exploiters? In what way? Were they competing against you to clear the content? Did their gear in a completely separate raid or fp cause your group to wipe on a certain boss? We aren't talking about speed hacks here, which will negatively affect pvp, since you're actually competing against other players. We are talking about PVE gear. Someone else having better gear than I do, has never made me enjoy the game any less or affected my PVE experience in any way. I'm not sure how this would be any different.

 

Oh, and I admit it, I'm a video game cheater. I used up up down down b a b a select start when I played Contra to get the 30 lives. I typed in Justin Bailey in Metroid to get extra stuff. I took advantage of the Handmaiden robe glitch in KOTOR 2 to get extra gold. Why? Because I enjoyed those games and had fun doing it that way. And I'm fairly certain me doing that didn't have any effect on anyone else's enjoyment of those games.

 

So, I ask again, in what way has anyone's game experience been affected by people's use of this exploit? Aside from the, but cheaters never win argument. It's. A. Video. Game.

 

As Aaron Rodgers would say R-E-L-A-X.

Edited January 8, 2015 by AMulls

[Darth_Wicked]

I would settle for a date with Raquel Welch. I don't do Ops but if you could arrange that I would be a fan for life.

 

I'd do that granny.

 

There, I said it.

[Max_Killjoy]

My "attitude" is based on your posting history. You've demonstrated it over and over.

 

Your attitude is based on me not taking your precious pixel-manhood seriously. Get over yourself.

[TUXs]

The amount of ridicule you are exposing yourself to is quite an eye-opener.

 

Again, the only people who can possibly take an issue with this are the same ones who took advantage of it. It is clear on which side of the fence you reside.

Ridicule?! For what? Posting on a video game forum?

 

Read back a few posts...you even quoted me where I cleared this up for you.

[LordArtemis]

Using Legacy shells to transfer gear is NOT an unintended "feature" last I checked.

 

I might be mistaken about this, and I admit this is probably irrelevant, but I am fairly sure I saw a dev comment that indicated that using legacy gear in that way was unintended, but they chose to not act against it...and are discussing what they want to do about it presently. They did clearly state they had no intent to act against folks that were using the gear for that purpose.

 

I can't recall the exact quote, I will try and find it if needed. But I believe that was the gist.

[well]

I'd do that granny.

 

There, I said it.

 

She is still hot:D:D:D

[Sindariel]

The only people who should be banned, are those who originally sold their HM lockouts and made this exploit public, instead of keeping quiet. THEY are responsible for all this hassle, in the first place.

[Tsillah]

You need two things to successfully complete Operations: Gear and skill. The more you have of one, the less you need of the other. Trivializing gear trivializes the skill needed to complete the Ops.

 

Read what you wrote.

 

Did you spot the contradiction in your reasoning?

[jkopavaswtor]

Your attitude is based on me not taking your precious pixel-manhood seriously. Get over yourself.

 

Oh yeah, you are taking it seriously. Otherwise you would not post in every single thread about punishment for exploiters. Scared much?

[Max_Killjoy]

Again, the only people who can possibly take an issue with this are the same ones who took advantage of it. It is clear on which side of the fence you reside.

Oh yeah, you are taking it seriously. Otherwise you would not post in every single thread about punishment for exploiters. Scared much?

 

Seriously?

 

If we're not on board with massive punishment, we must be people who used this bug to get stuff? If we're not outraged by the exploit, we must be people who used it?

 

False dichotomy much?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Tsillah]

ANOTHER thread?

 

Really?

 

A tip.

 

Posting in threads you don't want to see is counterproductive

[TUXs]

I might be mistaken about this, and I admit this is probably irrelevant, but I am fairly sure I saw a dev comment that indicated that using legacy gear in that way was unintended, but they chose to not act against it...and are discussing what they want to do about it presently. They did clearly state they had no intent to act against folks that were using the gear for that purpose.

 

I can't recall the exact quote, I will try and find it if needed. But I believe that was the gist.

 

You're exactly right! I recall that post as well.

If we're not on board with massive punishment, we must be people who used this bug to get stuff? If we're not outraged by the exploit, we must be people who used it?

 

False dichotomy much?

No kidding. It's a piece of freaking gear. Big deal. I'm more concerned with having the PvP queues pop, GF missions begin and joining random Ops in Fleet chat.

Edited January 8, 2015 by TUXs

[Darth-Rion]

Wait, what have I missed? o.O

[JuMoraf]

lol no

If anything I can see them give us something equivalent to that. No more.

 

This all the way! Stop begging for money literally. I get it we were good when other people were bad the bad people should be punished harshly enough that no one wants to be bad again not give us stuff that can take away from this games income. It hurts them twice when they hand out free money. Don't get me wrong give away free money people become more comfortable using the money and it encourages more spending if they have a little left over. I get that but let's be honest EA is hovering over BWs shoulder and asking why they're wasting all this money. Now if they gave us a cosmetic item that essentially would be a CM item normally but it's an exclusive club for loyal players which hey, that's what mmo players want special gear that no one else has. Shoot throw in the vip wristband for these people also so we can literally all hang out upstairs. With this you can weed out plplayers who cheated and who didn't. We shouldn't care about cheaters joining ques, they broke the rules they are second class players.

[BalphoWan]

You people calling for bans; I can't tell if you are naive, stupid, or just trolling. This is a business. I would love to see Bioware execs explain to EA in a shareholders meeting that they purposely decreased revenue by issuing temp/perm bans for players exploiting a bug that THEY left in the game. That would go over real well.

 

Issue warnings to first timers, harsher punishments to repeat offenders, and move the f**k on. Stop worrying about how the person next you you got his 192 mod as opposed to your 186.

[Darth_Wicked]

Read back a few posts...you even quoted me where I cleared this up for you.

 

Again, your behavior infers otherwise, not to mention you claim the fault lies solely on Bioware for not taking care of the issue is a timely fashion -- those are your words, not mine.

[TUXs]

.... ARGABARGLE!!!!....

I've spent about 15min sounding that word out in my head and I still can't quite get it...

[Aelenthir]

Biodrones getting stronger in this topic.I can't belive that people defend exploiters and exploit.

[Elracor]

You people calling for bans; I can't tell if you are naive, stupid, or just trolling. This is a business. I would love to see Bioware execs explain to EA in a shareholders meeting that they purposely decreased revenue by issuing temp/perm bans for players exploiting a bug that THEY left in the game. That would go over real well.

 

Issue warnings to first timers, harsher punishments to repeat offenders, and move the f**k on. Stop worrying about how the person next you you got his 192 mod as opposed to your 186.

 

I agree that permabans would be too far for 99% of the offenders. I heard some people transferred server to spread the Hard Mode exploit, I would think they are the exception here as deserve permabans.

Edited January 8, 2015 by MFollin

[LordArtemis]

Versus over stating how BIG it is? Probably.

 

But what impact does this actually have on you? There's clearly an impact on some players, like progression players who spend millions in repair bills trying to beat mechanics, but even they'll benefit. I just don't think it's big enough to ban players who did this. Like I said, the loot is already available for purchase with comms you get running 55 Ops...do you think that is an exploit since it clearly seems wrong?!

 

Personally, I would be dishonest If I indicated that this had some direct effect on me that I was aware of.

 

Your second comment is a trap....If I say yes, I am derided for presenting a silly nonsensical answer. If I say no, you equate that as condoning argumentum ad absurdum. Either way it is a logical fallacy.

 

Yes, perhaps one can purchase armor that is equal to or comparable to the exploited armor....but that does not translate into acceptable behavior ipso facto, nor does a lack of prompt action on Bioware's part excuse a lack of proper judgement.

 

Now, would I be upset if they did nothing? Of course not. Do I think it is wise to do nothing? No.

 

They can choose to handle this matter as they see fit, and I am certainly not grabbing the pitchfork and torch...I am just stating it is probably best to discourage this kind of behavior.

[TUXs]

Biodrones getting stronger in this topic.I can't belive that people defend exploiters and exploit.

Not defending anyone, just saying to keep this in perspective.

[Darth_Wicked]

Seriously?

 

If we're not on board with massive punishment, we must be people who used this bug to get stuff? If we're not outraged by the exploit, we must be people who used it?

 

False dichotomy much?

 

Again, the only people who may take an issue -- and rightly so -- are those who took advantage of the exploit repeatedly.

 

Those who didn't have nothing to fear or at they very least, shouldn't be that bothered by those who get the hammer.

 

The fact some feel the need to blame Bioware solely for this predicament is quite telling however.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Polstar]

I see that vigilante justice is alive and well inside the MMO community.

 

I certainly do not condone use of exploits in any MMO.

 

That said.... I guess the posters here are absent any understanding of history when it comes to actions against exploiters. For instance, improper ban actions that have to get reversed manually by CS.... because any game wide action net will be programmatic in nature and may cause false positives.

 

Active penalties (ban, equipment claw-back, etc) is a two edged sword, so rather then all the player pontificating in the discussion.... I am going to let Bioware do their work and decide how they fix it and what if any penalties they levy.

 

Why? Because one thing I have observed over the years is that when an MMO applies penalties it generally hurts more people then it helps. It causes many claims of false actions (right or wrong is immaterial), which churns up as much (or more) "negative credibility" feelings with players about the dev team. I have seen it time and time again in MMOs... where some players will claim they did nothing wrong and were wrongly actioned. And again.. it matters not if the claims are real or contrived... because other players will use it as an opportunity to attack the credibility and ethics of the devs.

 

TL;DR exploitable content is a fact of life in MMOs, because some players are unethical and will cheat their way through anything and everything. Yes, a company should close such exploits as quickly as possible, and take appropriate actions with respect to exploiters. BUT... BUT... there is no way for us as players to prosecute a remedy, and regardless of what the devs do/don't-do they are going to get attacked for it by some players.

 

Also... keep in mind... it is none of our business as individual players what Bioware does/does-not do in the form of actions upon any identified offenders. Read your EULA.... the company has sole discretion of how they handle violations, and they do not make their actions public other then to make broad generalized statements.

 

Just to add that the metrics involved would be a severe headache for the customer service team who struggle with the day to day tickets. According to BW they have around 1 million active accounts. Each and everyone of those accounts will have to be checked. Simply stating anyone who only has the last boss achievement is not enough, someone could have done the operation legit on one char but then exploited on the others, these accounts would have ALL bosses unlocked. So not only do we now have 1 million active accounts to check but each and every character on those accounts.

 

Also removing gear from exploiters, someone has to look again at how each piece of gear was gained, what about the mats that were looted? do you recover those also? what if the exploiter sold the mats, does the person buying them get a refund as the exploited mats need to be removed.

 

This is not something that can be automated, it needs someone to go in a check all these. The same goes for those asking for non-exploiters to be rewarded.

 

I am not advocating the use of exploits but just trying to give a balanced view of the logistics required for BW to hand out bans and item removals.

[joshis]

The righteous indignation about this situation is cracking me up. I've yet to see anyone actually explain to me how their game experience has been affected in any way by people taking advantage of this exploit. The economy is broken? No. One small section of the economy is slightly affected. Kind of like the influx of oil by OPEC in the real economy. Oil prices dropped, so gas prices dropped, but not much of an overall effect on the economy as a whole.

 

Unfair advantage over the non-exploiters? In what way? Were they competing against you to clear the content? Did their gear in a completely separate raid or fp cause your group to wipe on a certain boss? We aren't talking about speed hacks here, which will negatively affect pvp, since you're actually competing against other players. We are talking about PVE gear. Someone else having better gear than I do, has never made me enjoy the game any less or affected my PVE experience in any way. I'm not sure how this would be any different.

 

Oh, and I admit it, I'm a video game cheater. I used up up down down b a b a select start when I played Contra to get the 30 lives. I typed in Justin Bailey in Metroid to get extra stuff. I took advantage of the Handmaiden robe glitch in KOTOR 2 to get extra gold. Why? Because I enjoyed those games and had fun doing it that way. And I'm fairly certain me doing that didn't have any effect on anyone else's enjoyment of those games.

 

So, I ask again, in what way has anyone's game experience been affected by people's use of this exploit? Aside from the, but cheaters never win argument. It's. A. Video. Game.

 

As Aaron Rodgers would say R-E-L-A-X.

 

Get this man a seat on Oprah!

[Tsillah]

I might be mistaken about this, and I admit this is probably irrelevant, but I am fairly sure I saw a dev comment that indicated that using legacy gear in that way was unintended, but they chose to not act against it...and are discussing what they want to do about it presently. They did clearly state they had no intent to act against folks that were using the gear for that purpose.

 

I can't recall the exact quote, I will try and find it if needed. But I believe that was the gist.

 

If that is true, I find that interesting. For me it's just extremely hard to believe that they could be so naive not to see that. It's the first thing I thought of when the feature was announced.

 

Why? Because of many alts.

 

If they want to do something about this, they should start thinking about how they can help people with lots of characters, especially now since you can only get decent gear from ops and nowhere else. I mean even for mods and enhancements you have to do ops since the comm gear is utter crap.

 

I really wonder but I am thinking they need somebody with a bit more common sense who isn't a developer in the team to give a more objective outside look to their development path. With things like this I just get the feeling they are too close to their product to see how people react to new options.

 

And yeh I always thought that ripping the mods out, putting them in legacy gear, which I earned and sending em over so I could pay again for ripping them out to put them in the shiney CM armour I bought was enough to make it a valid assumption this was intended.

 

Not sure what to think about this now....but this is not a clear example of an exploit. Whatever has been going on here needs to be dealt with but crying for blood is kind of pointless here. It just needs to go away and become a thing of the past more than anything.

 

And fix the ops and lag while they're at it, that will help.