Saikochoro Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 If your melee can get off a 2 second mezz cast in a ranked WZ it doesn't matter what class you are or your teammates or the other team, you are prolly gonna win dat one I never said you have to use it. Your picking at straws to defend sins. Even if they didn't have whirlwind at all they would still have the most control of any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Offtopic: Phew...at least Im not the only one who has crappy FPS (meaning less than 15/20) Ontopic: The issue is, that Serenity/Hatred is basicaly the only viable PvP spec for Shadow/Sins. Infiltration/Deception requires you to have full PvP set in order to do at least some noticeable damage and even then the best you can pull from it ATM is average damage. You wont be rolling megacrits with that specs unless your opponent has level 1 gear. Not sure about Kinetic Combat(dont know how the imp counterpart is named) but from what Ive heard its nothing extra too. So if you want to bring Serenity/Hatred on the levels of other specs, you may aswell outright delete the class. By all means, go and fix Serenity/Hatred since I have already enough of that spec(Id rather play Infiltration tbh) but at the same time also fix other Shadow/Sin specs so that they are actually viable and people with incomplete PvP sets wont feel like target dummies when picking them. Darkness sins do very good. Deception isn't half as bad as most people think. I'd still take a deception sin in ranked over a Merc or mara any day. Deception needs a couple minor changes and they will be golden. Mega crits? What is your definition of a mega crit? Deception still has excellent burst. Hatred is so over the top that some sins think that deception should be like that too. If your used to having a rocket launcher I'm sure being stuck with a machine gun would be disappointing. But just remember half the people are running around with semi autos as a comparison. Don't compare deception to hatred. Hatred is a broken spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnashear Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I never said you have to use it. Your picking at straws to defend sins. Even if they didn't have whirlwind at all they would still have the most control of any class. Well middle tree juggs have much more uptime on cc immunity, H2F, 5 second God mode immune to absolutely everything in the game, and better cc . If I get a few hours I'll list all the abilities unless someone else wants to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Mid tree juggs do have some good control, but sins have more still. 5 second god mode? I'm guessing your talking about saber reflect. It doesn't reflect all damage. Melee still gets through. Vengeance cc: Leap = 2 sec root Ravage = root for duration (requires utility) Chilling scream = 8 sec snare Saber throw = 3 second root (requires utility) intimidating roar = aoe 8 sec mez Force choke = 4 sec stun. Force push = push back + knockdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Oh and hatred sins self healing is overall much better than juggs. Edited January 11, 2015 by Saikochoro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Darkness sins do very good. Deception isn't half as bad as most people think. I'd still take a deception sin in ranked over a Merc or mara any day. Deception needs a couple minor changes and they will be golden. Mega crits? What is your definition of a mega crit? Deception still has excellent burst. Hatred is so over the top that some sins think that deception should be like that too. If your used to having a rocket launcher I'm sure being stuck with a machine gun would be disappointing. But just remember half the people are running around with semi autos as a comparison. Don't compare deception to hatred. Hatred is a broken spec. My definition of megacrits is something in the range of 7k and up. Basicaly Psychokinetic Blast or Force Breach on max. stacks should be able to pull this of frequently, yet most of my experience with Infiltration post 3.0 (missing only two pieces from my PvP gear, both are implants, otherwise full Stalker set) is Psychokinetic blast critting (!!!) for 3,6k on Mara that doesnt have any def. CD up, Force Breach pulling out 5-6k crits (thats somewhat ok) and Shadow Strike normal hits for 1,5k (3k crit) on basicaly anything........ Maybe Im doing something wrong but I tried about 30 matches with Infiltration spec, modifying my rotation in the process etc..., before I gave up and went back to Serenity. Edited January 11, 2015 by JadenYugari Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 My definition of megacrits is something in the range of 7k and up. Basicaly Psychokinetic Blast or Force Breach on max. stacks should be able to pull this of frequently, yet most of my experience with Infiltration post 3.0 (missing only two pieces from my PvP gear, both are implants, otherwise full Stalker set) is Psychokinetic blast critting (!!!) for 3,6k on Mara that doesnt have any def. CD up, Force Breach pulling out 5-6k crits (thats somewhat ok) and Shadow Strike normal hits for 1,5k (3k crit) on basicaly anything........ Maybe Im doing something wrong but I tried about 30 matches with Infiltration spec, modifying my rotation in the process etc..., before I gave up and went back to Serenity. Those are some of the worst numbers I've ever seen... And your definition of megacrits starts at 7K??? What??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenYugari Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Those are some of the worst numbers I've ever seen... And your definition of megacrits starts at 7K??? What??? Maybe because my mind is still getting used to post lvl 60 damage numbers. Like I said, maybe I was doing something wrong or maybe I just got a bad luck and queued against full ranked gear premades, but those numbers were 90% of my Infiltration experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) When I play Deception I routinely crit Ball Lightning for 8.5-9k, Dischage is 9k, Maul is 10-12k... So I don't know what you're doing, but it's way off... Edited January 11, 2015 by howieloader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underjollyroger Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Sin>>>>PT>>jug>sorc On my shadow I push random btns and excel. On my PT I push 3 specific btns and kill stuff. On my jug I heal2full and make them pay (if they dont counter it) On all 3 sorcs are still easy to shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koarria Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Sin >>>>> PT >>>>> Jugg >>> Sorc WHY? Because Sin, PTs, and Juggs (and operatives) rape Sorcs. They only thing sorcs got is AoE. Even the self heal is only strong when dots are spread over something like 8 players. Even Mercs and Snipers got good chances in 1on1 vs a Sorc. The huge numbers in the end, which all people are whining about, are spread over various targets at once, often not even killing 1 of them before dying. So sorcs need a sift from AoE Damage and Self heal towards more single target damage and AoE heal. And a change to Force Storm. Sins rape everything! PT has a huge amount of burst, and survivability is by far not as bad as most PTs want to make us believe. Especially when you consider how much burst, cc, and immunity they got. Juggs also got good burst, cc, and cc immuntiy plus decent dcds. Though the burst is not as high as that of the PT. I know most people won't agree with me, because all they do is look at the Totals at the end of a match and not how effective and efficient that player / class was .... no point in arguing with bads. But just an example: 50k instant every 10 sec beats 5k every second for 10 sec, despite both being 5k dps. PS: you should inclued Operatives in here. If you had any clue about balance you would definitely list them here. The only reason you didn't do it is probably because you are one of the said "bads" from above who only look at the Totals and since there are so few Operatives around you probably didn't get raped often enough by them either. Obviously, you play your class wrong. Assassins are only slightly better then Sorcs. So its more like Sin >= Sorcs >>>> PT > Jug >= Operative >> Merc >> Sniper > Mar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Obviously, you play your class wrong. Assassins are only slightly better then Sorcs. So its more like Sin >= Sorcs >>>> PT > Jug >= Operative >> Merc >> Sniper > Mar nope, jugg with all cd's > sorc OFC if u sart a fight vs a jugg without ED and saber reflect, well sorc wins hand down Pt > sorc ( iof barrier is on cd) SOrc can be > powertech if barrier is up VG has too much burst, they literally can take down a sorc in 3-4 seconds, can sorcs do that as well ? NOPE Jugg vs pt, would be a nice challenge, however, i think jugg > pt. Sins in the other hand are better than sorcs, pt, juggs, maybe a good operative can achieve something. Complaining right now, is useless, we all know balance right now is laughable, and all we know changes will be made. I bet 10 eur/$ sins will be nerfed, otherwise, devs really is better u start doing some smartphone game Edited January 11, 2015 by xX-Archangel-Xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatEvilDude Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Sins>>>>>PT=Jugg=Sorc OR because it seems nobody plays the republic these days: Shadows>>>>>VG=Guardian=Sage Why? The sage is exceptionally durable right now, truly exceptionally (as balance). However: Sages cannot kill ANYTHING. The reason why you see high damage numbers is because of DoT's on anything, which does little to put any real pressure on the other team's healer. As a Telekinetic sage, you sacrifice about half that durability for burst and killing power. The issue is once Force Armor wears off, they are very vulnerable. If anything makes them OP right now it is the mobility of the Telekinetic sage. The Vanguard while it has excellent burst, is squishy as heck, and if focused will die easily and quickly. After their initial burst is over they are much less threatening. Guardians are in a similar position to the sage, but instead of through heals, they are insanely durable through their defensive cooldowns. They also do very low damage. I joke that a duel between a guardian tank and a sage will go on forever, neither one will die nor get anyone close to death. Shadows combine a lot of the durability of the sage & guardian with high burst & high sustained damage. Add in stealth and high mobility and you have a brutal machine in PvP. Edited January 11, 2015 by ThatEvilDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Sins>>>>>PT=Jugg=Sorc OR because it seems nobody plays the republic these days: Shadows>>>>>VG=Guardian=Sage Why? The sage is exceptionally durable right now, truly exceptionally (as balance). However: Sages cannot kill ANYTHING. The reason why you see high damage numbers is because of DoT's on anything, which does little to put any real pressure on the other team's healer. As a Telekinetic sage, you sacrifice about half that durability for burst and killing power. The issue is once Force Armor wears off, they are very vulnerable. If anything makes them OP right now it is the mobility of the Telekinetic sage. The Vanguard while it has excellent burst, is squishy as heck, and if focused will die easily and quickly. After their initial burst is over they are much less threatening. Guardians are in a similar position to the sage, but instead of through heals, they are insanely durable through their defensive cooldowns. They also do very low damage. I joke that a duel between a guardian tank and a sage will go on forever, neither one will die nor get anyone close to death. Shadows combine a lot of the durability of the sage & guardian with high burst & high sustained damage. Add in stealth and high mobility and you have a brutal machine in PvP. Agreed, but i'd say sin > jugg > pt > sorc. Really i agree sorcs are annoying, its rue, BUT if focussed, we are paper, i did 1.8 mil as lightning, but the reasons is only one, i was free to cast my stuff, without even a stun or an interrupt, even did the same with merc, same reason, no focus, no interrupt, nothing, shadows are immune to interrupt, immune to cc, immune to stun for 5 secs immune to all damage except white damage, still sure sorcs need to be nerfed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 My definition of megacrits is something in the range of 7k and up. Basicaly Psychokinetic Blast or Force Breach on max. stacks should be able to pull this of frequently, yet most of my experience with Infiltration post 3.0 (missing only two pieces from my PvP gear, both are implants, otherwise full Stalker set) is Psychokinetic blast critting (!!!) for 3,6k on Mara that doesnt have any def. CD up, Force Breach pulling out 5-6k crits (thats somewhat ok) and Shadow Strike normal hits for 1,5k (3k crit) on basicaly anything........ Maybe Im doing something wrong but I tried about 30 matches with Infiltration spec, modifying my rotation in the process etc..., before I gave up and went back to Serenity. Wow I'm sorry that's you're experience. Definitely not mine. Discharge is regularly crit ting for around 8 - 9k for me. Ball lightning is cruising for about 7.5 - 8.5k with the second proc'd one hitting for 3-4k. Mail is usually crit ting between 10-12k for. Assassinate usually 8-11k for me. Even had low slash hit for 8k once since patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikochoro Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Obviously, you play your class wrong. Assassins are only slightly better then Sorcs. So its more like Sin >= Sorcs >>>> PT > Jug >= Operative >> Merc >> Sniper > Mar This is about the order I would put them in. Crept is switch Merc and sniper for regs. And switch mara and Merc for ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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