Why are non force sensitives so loyal to the empire?

[adormitul]

On short with handful of exceptions most empire citizens that are not force sensitives will always be forced to follow the rule of force sensitives even if they are more skillful and capable then their superiors. I mean why do they put up with it its true that force sensitives are more powerful on average then a non force sensitive but their way way way more normal then Sith to put it like that.

So why do they put up with being oppressed by them when they can eliminate those sith by simply overwhelming them?

[Darth_Wicked]

To quote this one character I like very much:

I'm prouf of earning my position, but a great Moff must be selfless -- we live and die for the Sith.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[Zorvan]

Because one even moderately gifted Sith Force user can demolish 1,000 non-Force users without having to put his/her sandwich down first?

[adormitul]

Because one even moderately gifted Sith Force user can demolish 1,000 non-Force users without having to put his/her sandwich down first?

Really?

[Kryand]

Because one even moderately gifted Sith Force user can demolish 1,000 non-Force users without having to put his/her sandwich down first?

 

Agents, bounty hunters, troopers and smugglers seem to do just fine against the Sith/Jedi they fight.

[Aries_cz]

Centuries of conditioning, that is why.

[ZetaZoran]

It is called loyalty. Why does anyone follow a leader? The answer is easy, because they believe in them. I am not going to drag too much RL politics into this but I will say there have been many world leaders that I considered myself smarter than but that does not mean I am going to overthrow them and even if I did decide to do that it would take time, money, and a army or at least insiders of my own to do that.

 

In short, yes it is possible to overthrow a leader but its not easy and life is normally a lot better just going with the flow or leave the country/planet then it is to start a revolution. If you need proof of that just look at Cuba. I am sure there are some dissatisfied Imps out there too but they will either serve, leave, or die trying to change things.

[Max_Killjoy]

Because one even moderately gifted Sith Force user can demolish 1,000 non-Force users without having to put his/her sandwich down first?

 

Since when?

 

Lets ask all the Force-users that a BH, IA, Smuggler, or Trooper puts down hard whether that's true, shall we?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[adormitul]

The reading comprehension of the average SWToR player on display here is saddening.

Re-read the OP's question. He's talking about your normal everyday citizens not revolting.

 

Also remember that the thousands playing this game translate to just 16 people lore-wise.

 

Still is it true?

[Andrellma]

Because the Empire is, at its heart, a meritocracy.

 

Individual citizens, even non force sensitives, can make their own way in Imperial society, and while they still answer to the Sith, they can still rise quite high in Imperial society, provided they earn it.

 

Look at Moffs Phennir, Kilran, and Regus. General Hesker, Admiral Rankin, and so many others. These people, through their own merits, have risen quite high, and in some cases even hold sway over some Sith. Before Malgus turned traitor, the Dark Council placed him under Regus' command. Kilran commanded Vokk, and other Sith in the battle for the Esseles, Taral V, and Maelstrom Prison. Lord Krovos answers to Admiral Rankin in the Kuat campaign. General Hesker was respected by both the Dark Council and Moff Regus. These are only a few examples, of course, and there are countless others.

[Aries_cz]

Because the Empire is, at its heart, a meritocracy.

 

Individual citizens, even non force sensitives, can make their own way in Imperial society, and while they still answer to the Sith, they can still rise quite high in Imperial society, provided they earn it.

 

Look at Moffs Phennir, Kilran, and Regus. General Hesker, Admiral Rankin, and so many others. These people, through their own merits, have risen quite high, and in some cases even hold sway over some Sith. Before Malgus turned traitor, the Dark Council placed him under Regus' command. Kilran commanded Vokk, and other Sith in the battle for the Esseles, Taral V, and Maelstrom Prison. Lord Krovos answers to Admiral Rankin in the Kuat campaign. General Hesker was respected by both the Dark Council and Moff Regus. These are only a few examples, of course, and there are countless others.

 

I don't think it is really "answering to", more like "respecting them". If any Force sensitive chose, they could overrule any command given by non-force sensitives and no one would bat an eye.

 

And Empire's meritocracy is much more difficult than a simple meritocracy. It is much more of a caste system than meritocracy. Where you are born to usually decides what you will be, unless something special happens (being Force-sensitive, or doing something that makes some higher-up notice you and pull you out of the muck).

Of course, Empire lessened the caste system a bit after Malgus tried pulling the New Empire stunt, and some higher-ups notices that aliens actually work pretty well, which is why we can see Cathar commander on Makeb, etc. But at the start of the game, if you were a non-force sensitive Twi'lek, then tough luck...

[discosoc]

Because one even moderately gifted Sith Force user can demolish 1,000 non-Force users without having to put his/her sandwich down first?

 

All that would mean is Imperial solders would be defecting at the first opportunity, and entire planets would be pleading for help from the Republic in whatever secretive backroom way possible.

[LyraineAlei]

The reading comprehension of the average SWToR player on display here is saddening.

Re-read the OP's question. He's talking about your normal everyday citizens not revolting.

 

Also remember that the thousands playing this game translate to just 16 people lore-wise.

 

Eight. There is no difference in the overall story in regards to advanced classes. But I'm just nitpicking, and in agreement with your point.

 

My other thought is that for Imperials, the way they live is how they have always lived. Same with Pubs. They know the rules to how their society works, and switching would require serious relearning and harassment. Just look at the BS the Loyalty Check Dogs put Elara through, even though she's stars-damned Havoc Squad.

 

Another thought- propaganda. Imp side, the Republic are all the evil ones. Pub side the Imperials are all evil and twisted. Both are telling the truth, from their perspective.

[Master-Nala]

Another thought- propaganda. Imp side, the Republic are all the evil ones. Pub side the Imperials are all evil and twisted. Both are telling the truth, from their perspective.

 

The Sith are lying and they know it. They openly embrace slavery, genocide, xenophobia and a dystopian survival of the fittest philosophy. There are evil individuals in the Republic. But what they are doing is often contrary to the law, culture and custom of the Republic.

 

The Sith Empire is evil for evil's sake.

[Tolunart]

In a fictional good vs. evil tale, the evil side has to be at least as powerful as the good. This is the third installment of the "Old Republic" story, and the Republic needs an enemy that's at least as powerful as they are - and in Star Wars, evil means Sith.

 

It would make an interesting story if a single Sith or a small group would infiltrate a galaxy-wide Republic, corrupting it from within and manipulating events until they stage some sort of coup to seize power and turn it into an evil Empire before the citizens even know what's happening, let alone have a chance to stage more than a tiny, nearly overwhelmed resistance... but that's more of a single player game narrative than an MMO.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Tolunart

[Kryptonomic]

So why do they put up with being oppressed by them when they can eliminate those sith by simply overwhelming them?

 

Somewhat off point from your question, but consider reading "The Pursuit of the Nazi Mind: Hitler, Hess, and the Analysts" by Daniel Pick. It's a great book that looks at the historical Nazi mindset that infiltrated the upper German government. But in doing so, it also looks at the psychology of the people that the Nazi Party was effectively ruling.

 

The parallel here, of course, is that the German people effectively outnumbered the Nazi Party. You can argue with how and to what extent the wider German populace was oppressed and while doing so ask why people didn't revolt. Was it simply fear? Or did they simply not see the Nazi Party as the "evil" that it was to the rest of the world? Or did they see it as "evil" but also realize it was a form of power that was apparently working? (After all, Germany was now a force to be reckoned with again.)

 

I've actually found it interesting to consider an Imperial Agent and a Sith Warrior since reading that book. (Another good book in that same vein, albeit with a more personal focus, was "Eyes are Watching, Ears are Listening: Growing Up in Nazi Germany, 1933-1946" by Eycke Strickland. That gives you a viewpoint into how your average citizens responded to what was effectively an overwhelming tyrannical government.)

Edited January 3, 2015 by JeffNyman

[Kryand]

The reading comprehension of the average SWToR player on display here is saddening.

Re-read the OP's question. He's talking about your normal everyday citizens not revolting.

 

Also remember that the thousands playing this game translate to just 16 people lore-wise.

 

The back-tracking is strong with this one. Too bad not only is what you said wrong, but what you are pretending you said is also wrong.

[adormitul]

Somewhat off point from your question, but consider reading "The Pursuit of the Nazi Mind: Hitler, Hess, and the Analysts" by Daniel Pick. It's a great book that looks at the historical Nazi mindset that infiltrated the upper German government. But in doing so, it also looks at the psychology of the people that the Nazi Party was effectively ruling.

 

The parallel here, of course, is that the German people effectively outnumbered the Nazi Party. You can argue with how and to what extent the wider German populace was oppressed and while doing so ask why people didn't revolt. Was it simply fear? Or did they simply not see the Nazi Party as the "evil" that it was to the rest of the world? Or did they see it as "evil" but also realize it was a form of power that was apparently working? (After all, Germany was now a force to be reckoned with again.)

 

I've actually found it interesting to consider an Imperial Agent and a Sith Warrior since reading that book. (Another good book in that same vein, albeit with a more personal focus, was "Eyes are Watching, Ears are Listening: Growing Up in Nazi Germany, 1933-1946" by Eycke Strickland. That gives you a viewpoint into how your average citizens responded to what was effectively an overwhelming tyrannical government.)

It was combination of pride, manipulation and fear that kept the german people well not rebellious. They knew I am sure of that there were atrocities done to other people especially jews but ignorance shields us of many things.

I guess in way the empire is keeping its subjects non rebellious using similar methods. I am also sure that non force users know of the atrocities their sith overlords do but the same ignorance is a powerful shield.

Edited January 3, 2015 by adormitul

[Kryptonomic]

It was combination of pride, manipulation and fear that kept the german people well not rebellious.

 

True. But that simple phrase -- and I agree with what you say -- belies a lot of complexity to how people felt and then how they acted based on how they felt. Further, this notion played into how the German people reinforced their viewpoint. Many people did actually rebel, but in very small ways. Sometimes not even thinking of their actions as "rebellious." Those small ways, however, began to add up. Had the Nazi Party stayed in power longer, it would have been interesting to see what kind of rebellion may have been possible.

 

There's also the idea of fear of the "other." Germans were taught to fear what the rest of the world would do to them: make them a poor nation, demand reparations for the previous war, etc. Germany, it was said, would be ground into the dirt and eradicated via the disorder of the rest of the world. What was needed was unity, purpose, and order. (Sound familiar?)

 

So imagine if the Empire had enough propaganda to tell its people regarding the dire fate of allowing the Republic -- with "chaotic" representative government -- to hold sway. Imagine if the Empire had propaganda against all other alien races, and then showed how the Republic embraced those races, thereby giving rise to the fear of so much "disorder."

 

In our own world, in present day, we see that people often want simplicity of a single viewpoint rather than the nuanced disorder of many viewpoints. People, for all they profess otherwise, generally act as if a single belief system is better than a multi-faceted belief system. People are often willing to hand over control of vast segments of their lives if they are told they will be protected from the "other" (whatever that "other" may be).

[LyraineAlei]

The Sith are lying and they know it. They openly embrace slavery, genocide, xenophobia and a dystopian survival of the fittest philosophy. There are evil individuals in the Republic. But what they are doing is often contrary to the law, culture and custom of the Republic.

 

The Sith Empire is evil for evil's sake.

 

From your point of view.

 

The Empire expands to more worlds, wanting their resources and the like. But those worlds are already inhabited by beings who do not want to give up their homes. Wars wage until the inhabitants are either dead, or unwillingly part of the Empire (usually the lowest part of society, or shunned to the dregs of the planet).

 

Sounds pretty evil, right?

 

Happened when Europeans came to the "New World" and found it inhabited by "savages". Yes, some European Empires did what they could to assimilate the natives into their society, but there was still warfare.

 

Who were the good guys in that Real Life example? Who were the bad guys? Whose side are the history textbooks on?

[Ravrohan]

In a fictional good vs. evil tale, the evil side has to be at least as powerful as the good. This is the third installment of the "Old Republic" story, and the Republic needs an enemy that's at least as powerful as they are - and in Star Wars, evil means Sith.

 

It would make an interesting story if a single Sith or a small group would infiltrate a galaxy-wide Republic, corrupting it from within and manipulating events until they stage some sort of coup to seize power and turn it into an evil Empire before the citizens even know what's happening, let alone have a chance to stage more than a tiny, nearly overwhelmed resistance... but that's more of a single player game narrative than an MMO.

 

This actually happens in the later Fate of the Jedi series of novels.

[LyraineAlei]

This actually happens in the later Fate of the Jedi series of novels.

 

It also sounds suspiciously like what the Prequel Trilogy has happening.

[Kryptonomic]

It also sounds suspiciously like what the Prequel Trilogy has happening.

 

Agreed. The original quote was: "It would make an interesting story if a single Sith or a small group would infiltrate a galaxy-wide Republic, corrupting it from within and manipulating events until they stage some sort of coup to seize power and turn it into an evil Empire before the citizens even know what's happening,"

 

That's pretty much exactly what Palpatine did. He essentially manipulated his way into the most powerful position, having previously set up the conditions whereby two armies would be constructed (clones and droids) and then he played both sides off each other. Eventually the coup was realized in Order 66 which took out the major power base (Jedi) as well as co-opted the military. This led to the Republic becoming an Empire ... all in the name of safety and order.

Edited January 3, 2015 by JeffNyman

[Tsillah]

Because most people are sheep and want to be led. Doesn't matter whether it's a president, a sports figure, a pop star or the daughter of the owner of a hotel chain. People love to run behind someone else and pretty much accept all the crap that comes with it.

[Aries_cz]

From your point of view.

 

Sounds pretty evil, right?

 

Well, the Empire is lead by entity that sustains itself on life force of millions of people, and plans to consume trillions more. Its "de facto" leaders are people willing to sacrifice anyone or backstab their colleagues to gain more power.

That sounds pretty evil, compared to corrupt politicians that run the Republic