Bangers’ AP PT PvP Guide (3.0); Accidental post: additons occuring now

[VarekRayth]

The thing Bangers and I talked about while writing this guide was, should we make different utilities for different types of scenarios for PVP? We came to the conclusion to just have one set utility combo just b/c we wanted to a person to jump into a warzone and have fun. Whether it be ranked or non ranked, the current utility is viable for all aspects of pvp, but the set up could be better. Small twinks can be made.

 

That being said, our guide wasn't really going to people who already know how to play a PT. It was more or less for the ones who just started playing and were looking for that bridge into the next level of play of the Powertech. Although like Bangers said, he is open suggestions and civilized discussion.

 

And for this purpose, this guide is top notch.

[VarekRayth]

1) I'm a bit confused why you wouldn't proc RS prior to engaging in combat for an opening rotation? It's resource free and doesn't come at the expense of anything else. Even in group ranked, what harm comes from proc'ing as you leave the gates? I'm not exactly sure what you mean't by using RS back to back? The rotation you outlined (below) doesn't use them back to back? I interpret back to back as RS > RS. Even then, I'm not sure why you would ever do this?

 

2) Why wouldn't you use EB at the 3rd spot in your suggested rotation? If your talking about putting damage on, EB hits harder than RS as I discussed and as such, you want to use it in the same GCD that TD explodes within. No other combination of abilities will give you larger burst within a single GCD. I've discussed 'preloading' a target with debuffs, including from RB prior to engaging in a burst rotation. You've outlined 6 GCD's here, if you want to get the most out of your burst rotation it makes sense to apply all debuffs prior. Also, why use EB over RP? - RP does more damage and has a static CD as I've discussed......

 

3) Edart use is situational as I've outlined and as such, it's frequency of use really depends - decent contributing damage for clumped players however so should be ignored entirely. I don't see people raving about Edart 'burst' though...MB and Edart cost the same amount of heat....

 

Thanks for your post.

 

1) Well naturally you need to proc it before using it again lol. What I was saying is that due to the ICD that proccing it before combat you can potentially run into the issue of it not proccing depending on where RS falls in how you put it on kids. You *can* do this, just something to be aware of.

 

2) EB does hit harder than RS, the MB is there to ensure the autocrit on EB for the set bonus. TD + EB is rude but also runs into the issue of hella telegraphing your burst in 4's. More often than not I don't actually use TD on the target I'm gunning to get a kill on but that's a whole other discussion. I don't disagree with the guide for the most part bud, I was just giving you a different set of options.

 

3) Very situational. There are very few reasons to use it. The AOE component is basically fluff.

[Zoom_VI]

The thing Bangers and I talked about while writing this guide was, should we make different utilities for different types of scenarios for PVP? We came to the conclusion to just have one set utility combo just b/c we wanted to a person to jump into a warzone and have fun.

 

The problem is your utility selection is not that great even as a "general purpose" build. The talent selections are really only good for dueling, or for scoreboard chasing, and not really good beyond that.

 

You want alternatives? Pneumatic boots, Sonic rebounder, efficient suit, and/or Enhanced Paralytics are all superior alternatives.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[breaktobuild]

The problem is your utility selection is not that great even as a "general purpose" build. The talent selections are really only good for dueling, or for scoreboard chasing, and not really good beyond that.

 

You want alternatives? Pneumatic boots, Sonic rebounder, efficient suit, and/or Enhanced Paralytics are all superior alternatives.

 

I provided explicit rationales for Gyroscopic Alignment Jets and Shield Cannon in particular, in response to your previous post critising Utility selections, which you have not provided any rebuttal too here. Instead you've listed a bunch of Utility alternatives without reasons to specifically support your claim that they are 'superior' to those I've outlined in my guide. I've already acknowledged the use for Enhanced Paralytics or maybe Sonic Rebounder over Pyro Shield for group ranked situations.

 

Score bored chasing? The primary purpose of this spec is to do damage first and foremost. Yes, there is a difference between 'scoreboard chasing' / farming damage over putting out high volumes of DPS pressure to support your team to win. For example, if I wanted to farm damage I'd avoid killing blows (i.e. over damaging). In contrast, if I want to support my team I'll play the spec for it's primary purpose. That is, putting out high pressure in order to drop opposition targets to win/defend objectives or ultimately succeeded in ranked. This is ultimately a question of players intent and has nothing to do with anything mentioned in my guide.

Edited January 4, 2015 by breaktobuild

[Kooziejr]

Firstly, RIP Midian @ The Bastion. I am the last player left effectively. sad times.

 

Thanks for the guide. Some good info. My "educated" responses to all peoples posts regarding utility skills.

 

Clearly pneumatic boots is a woeful skill to pick and only players who do not understand the stacking mechanic of this game would pick that. Speed buffs don't stack (e.g., Pred with HO) does not give u 75% movement speed + 15 from pneumatic boots. While HO is active 45% speed if the maximum speed boost (i.e., the highest speed boost is the one that is enforced...not the sum of the parts). Thus, rendering your 15% useless for most of the fight as snares, slows, stuns etc render the speed boost useless when HO is not active. Further, the 15% is not even active until you are in combat (as out of combat >15% speed boost in combat)....at least this is how this skill worked pre 3.0 since it was introduced in vanilla. Gyroscopic alignment jets is MUCH better than this - and a very overlooked ability. Not good in 4 v 4 dps solo Arenas but VERY VERY good for group ranked and regs.

 

Sonic rebounder is bad for almost everything as an AP DPS......you will be getting the focus first against any decent players so useless skill unless you are pugging regs........its useless in team ranked for 1 reason.....because it has a DEFENSIVE cooldown tied to it (30% defense chance) - Thus, using an AoE taunt when you are not taking dmg makes you far squishier. Taking this skill means you haven't actually thought about the class mechanics properly or you are cycling your cooldowns incorrectly....just think about it before you respond forum junkies - (an analogy for you - a marauder wouldn't use saber ward when they weren't getting attacked to give out a little shield for team mates)

 

The pyro shield is completely garbage compared to the newer options available.

 

Torque boosters is the best Masterful Utility tool by about 1000000% as AP.

 

You can take 4 skillful and 1 masterful ability.....actually not a bad idea if you think about the options. Again, just take some time to go through them and you will come up with some good thoughts.

 

Shield cannon is a 100% must in solo ranked as many games are 4 dps v 4dps - not as useful in other scenarios of group ranked and regs.

 

Overdrive is mandatory for all specs in all forms of the game (even tank requires for setting up kills in group ranked with combo of No escape and accelerated reel (tank may want to also consider some other options if they don't run a hard switch comp - as no escape and accelerated reel is probably bad if you suck at the game).

 

Enhanced paralytics is a group ranked and tank ability. Bad for solo Q IMO considering other options and you would rather be bursting other good dps then wasting GCDs stunning people for them to break them and kill you anyways - let the noobs handle the stuns as someone will invariably overlap yours anyway....they will get thrown out like candy anyways on any so called "focus target" regardless of dmg reduction. *sigh*

 

As always, sorry for the undertones of elitist cynicism.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kooziejr

[breaktobuild]

1) Well naturally you need to proc it before using it again lol.

 

if you read the guide properly you'd see proccing a resource free RS was an 'opening rotation' consideration prior to engaging in active combat. Your initial post said not use FS to proc resource free RS prior to engaging in active combat and now your saying you *can* do it? I'm not sure you've even made up your mind on this. Regardless, there is no excuse/reason to proc a resource free RS out of combat with FS where available.

1)

What I was saying is that due to the ICD that proccing it before combat you can potentially run into the issue of it not proccing depending on where RS falls in how you put it on kids. You *can* do this, just something to be aware of.

Considering the ICD in using FS to proc your RS out of combat goes without saying? lol...But again, this was an opening burst consideration prior to engaging in combat so how can ICD be an issue in this context?

1)

2) EB does hit harder than RS, the MB is there to ensure the autocrit on EB for the set bonus.

I acknowledged the EB auto crit in my maximum burst rotation and considered it as something to watch for prior to using a maximum burst rotation.

1)

TD + EB is rude but also runs into the issue of hella telegraphing your burst in 4's. More often than not I don't actually use TD on the target I'm gunning to get a kill on but that's a whole other discussion. I don't disagree with the guide for the most part bud, I was just giving you a different set of options.

I wouldn't want to come across as rude when I'm trying to drop a target, I'd want to do it in the nicest way possible ofc Not using TD to kill someone for AP is like neglecting Raging Burst for Fury Marauders or whatever it's called now. lol....

Edited January 4, 2015 by breaktobuild

[dijskykiller]

Yes, i am a full time tank, but i came from playing regs/ranked with AP/Pyro since launch before tanking. I am just putting some input on this to help you understand that better or other good options exist.

 

Accelerated reel +/ or no escape is used to put pressure, harass and eventually kill targets through positional disadvantage. I wouldn't say it is the best, but those are good options in regs given by its objective nature. You don't really have to coordinate it with every pull as pulling somebody towards your team is already a good visual cue to switch focus or pulling somebody away from capping teammate will give you extra time to secure a node with a root. It also helps for peeling off the pressure on your healer/focused teammate and give em more time to heal.

 

Also, i forgot to add. I tried the old combat medic 2pc set bonus = decreased HO/HTL cd of 5 secs + iron will + torque boosters + overdrive giving you a 20s CD on HO making you bounceable for only 10s everytime if you keep on putting it on CD. I have to say it was so much fun with 50% uptime of physics immunity and speed, although i have only tried this as PT tank, idk if it's worth dropping some aim and end with two armorings to increase its usefulness with AP/Pyro though.

Edited January 4, 2015 by dijskykiller

[Zoom_VI]

Also, i forgot to add. I tried the old combat medic 2pc set bonus = decreased HO/HTL cd of 5 secs + iron will + torque boosters + overdrive giving you a 20s CD on HO making you bounceable for only 10s everytime if you keep on putting it on CD. I have to say it was so much fun with 50% uptime of physics immunity and speed, although i have only tried this as PT tank, idk if it's worth dropping some aim and end with two armorings to increase its usefulness with AP/Pyro though.

 

Its not because doing so means dropping the 6pc setbonus which means no autocrit for Cell Burst.

[AxeDragoneth]

Shield Cannon is a must as AP PT. Seven rockets healing you for ~2k a pop while you're under the heavy fire that your class attracts has proven to be a life saver in many scenarios.

 

No Escape is a good utility but I tend to favor speccing into it with Efficient Suit as a tank because 40m pull + 3second root is a great opener that the dps on my team can take greater advantage of.

 

As much as I've wanted Automated Suit to exist in-game, I can't justify speccing into it for any spec. KO should always be available while we're stunned to compete with a Jugg's ED, but the fact that it breaks the stun is counter-intuitive for AP. If you're using it as Pyro you potentially just wasted your best cooldown [provided the 30% reduction and reduced uptime bugs get fixed]. If you use it as Tank you've, again, potentially wasted it but in Ranked 4's could throw the enemy off when they see you stunbreak and assume you used Determination---but I still favor Efficient Suit+Overdrive for tanking.

 

Bracer Repellent+Suppressive Tools are no-brainers and every spec should use them.

 

I'm between whether I'd recommend GAJ over Iron Will, though. I like the uptime of my stunbreaker [since I dont spec into Automated Suit] and the HO uptime is superb. Managing your heat will reduce the usefulness of GAJ significantly and there have been incredibly few times in any spec where I messed up and would have liked the extra heat venting. This is a personal preference and you can't really go wrong with either.

[Kooziejr]

Shield Cannon is a must as AP PT. Seven rockets healing you for ~2k a pop while you're under the heavy fire that your class attracts has proven to be a life saver in many scenarios.

 

No Escape is a good utility but I tend to favor speccing into it with Efficient Suit as a tank because 40m pull + 3second root is a great opener that the dps on my team can take greater advantage of.

 

As much as I've wanted Automated Suit to exist in-game, I can't justify speccing into it for any spec. KO should always be available while we're stunned to compete with a Jugg's ED, but the fact that it breaks the stun is counter-intuitive for AP. If you're using it as Pyro you potentially just wasted your best cooldown [provided the 30% reduction and reduced uptime bugs get fixed]. If you use it as Tank you've, again, potentially wasted it but in Ranked 4's could throw the enemy off when they see you stunbreak and assume you used Determination---but I still favor Efficient Suit+Overdrive for tanking.

 

Bracer Repellent+Suppressive Tools are no-brainers and every spec should use them.

 

I'm between whether I'd recommend GAJ over Iron Will, though. I like the uptime of my stunbreaker [since I dont spec into Automated Suit] and the HO uptime is superb. Managing your heat will reduce the usefulness of GAJ significantly and there have been incredibly few times in any spec where I messed up and would have liked the extra heat venting. This is a personal preference and you can't really go wrong with either.

 

I agree with this 100%. Why can't there by more people who use their brains on the forums?

 

Rahc and Koozie too stronk.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kooziejr

[Kooziejr]

BTW ......

Also, i forgot to add. I tried the old combat medic 2pc set bonus = decreased HO/HTL cd of 5 secs + iron will + torque boosters + overdrive giving you a 20s CD on HO making you bounceable for only 10s everytime if you keep on putting it on CD. I have to say it was so much fun with 50% uptime of physics immunity and speed, although i have only tried this as PT tank, idk if it's worth dropping some aim and end with two armorings to increase its usefulness with AP/Pyro though.

 

This is a REALLY REALLY bad idea.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kooziejr

[ScytheEleven]

When the utilities first went out, I jumped all the over the CC breaker on KO. Now...I think it's a worthwhile utility and I'm not gonna tell anyone they are wrong for taking it, but I find Shield Cannon and Efficient Suit to be much more useful in Solo Ranked play.

 

I take Iron Will, Bracer Propellant, and Suppressive Tools in Tier 1. I take Accelerated Reel (on my server, I play against a boat load of sorcs and with their force speed at 20 sec CD, this helps me off-set that. Plus it's useful for when I actually have a healer on my team and I am peeling for them) and obviously I take Torque Boosters.

 

I'm really anticipating that Overdrive gets nerfed a bit...that speed boost is nuts I find it better for regs though (i.e. Hutt Ball).

[Kooziejr]

When the utilities first went out, I jumped all the over the CC breaker on KO. Now...I think it's a worthwhile utility and I'm not gonna tell anyone they are wrong for taking it, but I find Shield Cannon and Efficient Suit to be much more useful in Solo Ranked play.

 

I take Iron Will, Bracer Propellant, and Suppressive Tools in Tier 1. I take Accelerated Reel (on my server, I play against a boat load of sorcs and with their force speed at 20 sec CD, this helps me off-set that. Plus it's useful for when I actually have a healer on my team and I am peeling for them) and obviously I take Torque Boosters.

 

I'm really anticipating that Overdrive gets nerfed a bit...that speed boost is nuts I find it better for regs though (i.e. Hutt Ball).

 

Lol you can run from the centre in huttball to the goal line with overrides up and use ur 2 cc breakers (if u take it) when they try to CC you... haha there is actually nothing they can do to stop you.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Kooziejr

[Magira]

As much as I've wanted Automated Suit to exist in-game, I can't justify speccing into it for any spec. KO should always be available while we're stunned to compete with a Jugg's ED, but the fact that it breaks the stun is counter-intuitive for AP.

 

Yeah yeah. You think so before you stand against a Assa with empty shouldercannons as Defender at the pylon. In PUG PVP nobody comes to you to replace if they are empty.

 

And fundamentally: In solo PVP each additional Utility is thousand times more valuable than more damage.

[AxeDragoneth]

Yeah yeah. You think so before you stand against a Assa with empty shouldercannons as Defender at the pylon. In PUG PVP nobody comes to you to replace if they are empty.

 

And fundamentally: In solo PVP each additional Utility is thousand times more valuable than more damage.

Three reasons why your first point is irrelevant:

1] If you're AP PT defending a pylon, you're a wasted utility.

2] If above with no cannons, you say "no cannons; ditching node" and viola, you are free.

3] If above and you have some moral obligation not to ditch a node you know you'll lose, don't leave yourself without a cannon or two for backup. Run away after capping so you don't get stuck there. etc...

 

No reason to take a second cc break just to be able to defend a node you shouldn't be defending.

 

 

For your second note I will just say that's a matter of opinion. Sometimes damage > utility, though I am more favorable of utility over damage. It's the player.

[Magira]

If you're AP PT defending a pylon, you're a wasted utility...

 

...No reason to take a second cc break just to be able to defend a node you shouldn't be defending.

 

 

 

Can you defend well? Yes, only Assa would be better. Then do it when no Assa is in the team, not willingly or otherwise busy.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Magira

[Kooziejr]

Can you defend well? Yes, only Assa would be better. Then do it when no Assa is in the team, not willingly or otherwise busy.

 

For me and everybody else on these forums....Please stop calling it "Assa"... NO ONE calls it that...EVER. It is "Sin" damnit!

Edited January 6, 2015 by Kooziejr

[Magira]

For me and everybody else on these forums....Please stop calling it "Assa"... NO ONE calls it that...EVER. It is "Sin" damnit!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=5303220

Im a German.

But ok, its a sin.

[Aetrus]

Cool guide.

 

My utilities for yolo queue are Pneumatic Boots, Bracer Propellant, Iron Will, Pyro Shield, Torque Boosters, Shield Cannon and Fuel Additives. When I'm doing group ranked I swap Fuel Additives for Gyroscopic Alignment Jets. I really don't miss it in yolos, since they're mostly 4 DPS vs 4 DPS and over long before I end up pushing my heat. But Fuel Additives are really nice when I'm getting focused first. And Alignment Jets are just as good in group play where CC happens all the time. My thoughts on Automated Suit is that it's a great talent...for Pyro. But we take 30% less damage when CC'd, so I try not to use my breaker in AP if it can be helped, and so Automated Suit doesn't make as much sense to take in this spec.

 

Also, I find your lack of RB emphasis disturbing. It lets Rail Shot vent heat and keeps your heat management easier. Plus it leads to pretty numbers, so that Force Storm-spamming sorcs don't get to have all the fun.

 

I also run lower crit than the OP by about 100, but I haven't been able to test what would be superior. My guess is that the 230~ crit is better in regs and the 130~ crit is better in yolos, and something in between more optimized for group play.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Aetrus

[Magira]

Plus it leads to pretty numbers, so that Force Storm-spamming sorcs don't get to have all the fun.

 

OMG. Lern to play Objectives. Great Damage matters only in PVE.

[AxeDragoneth]

Great Damage matters only in PVE.

False. Damage matters, but it does not matter the most.

[Ottoattack]

First, thank you Bangers for the guide.

 

Second, utilities change depending on what sort of game mode you are playing, and some can be interchangeable providing strength in one are over the other. I do not see why people are bashing Bangers much over utility selection.

 

Out of curiosity, I have not been playing much, but I find the old four piece eliminator set to provide better set bonus than the new 6 piece eliminator set. Since RS is approximately 25% of AP's damage it seems more important than 1 guaranteed critic every minute on EB.

[breaktobuild]

Also, I find your lack of RB emphasis disturbing. It lets Rail Shot vent heat and keeps your heat management easier. Plus it leads to pretty numbers, so that Force Storm-spamming sorcs don't get to have all the fun.

Thanks. There is nothing else to add re. RB if that's what you meant. As I mentioned in the guide, I use it for the debuff if I want to burst a target down fast but find it pointless to use if someone is going to drop within a few GCD's. I always apply RB in group ranked situations obviously. It's helpful for managing heat but not essential if targets are dropping too fast too warrant it's use.

 

I also run lower crit than the OP by about 100, but I haven't been able to test what would be superior. My guess is that the 230~ crit is better in regs and the 130~ crit is better in yolos, and something in between more optimized for group play.

Why would you run lower crit in yolos? PT's are normally targeted first so squeezing in any crits before dropping is always good.

Edited January 12, 2015 by breaktobuild

[breaktobuild]

First, thank you Bangers for the guide.

 

Second, utilities change depending on what sort of game mode you are playing, and some can be interchangeable providing strength in one are over the other. I do not see why people are bashing Bangers much over utility selection.

 

Out of curiosity, I have not been playing much, but I find the old four piece eliminator set to provide better set bonus than the new 6 piece eliminator set. Since RS is approximately 25% of AP's damage it seems more important than 1 guaranteed critic every minute on EB.

 

Thanks for your comment. The difference in item rating (178 > 162) means the new Dark Reaver set is the way to go regardless of set bonuses. Your overall damage/reduction will be far better off.

[Kooziejr]

First, thank you Bangers for the guide.

 

Second, utilities change depending on what sort of game mode you are playing, and some can be interchangeable providing strength in one are over the other. I do not see why people are bashing Bangers much over utility selection.

 

Out of curiosity, I have not been playing much, but I find the old four piece eliminator set to provide better set bonus than the new 6 piece eliminator set. Since RS is approximately 25% of AP's damage it seems more important than 1 guaranteed critic every minute on EB.

 

the 6 piece is 100% mandatory for guaranteed burst.