Petition to get rid of credit sink with moving armor mods

[DakotaDoc]

Now with 3.0 and the new feature of removing the credit cost of abilities this current credit sink with mods needs to go also. It costs about 12k-13k per mod just to pull it out and times that by three mods per piece of armor minus belt and bracers comes out to 180k for all armor minus belt/bracer. If you add the other two its 228000 every time you want to make a new look for your character. If you also wish for a new offhand and main hand the new total is 312000 credits.

 

Personally my opinion is with all this cartel market outfits that is always being added people want to wear but do not wish to spend 300k plus to mod out a new outfit.

 

The solution you ask is we have two options. First we can remove the cost of removing mods from armor or we can add a new feature to the game an appearnace tab that overrides the current armor and shows the cosmetic armor of our choice.

 

Either of these two choices will boost the market for people buying cartel armor and help the overall economy in my opinion by removing a very silly credit sink.

 

Thoughts and opinions will be appreciated and thank you for your time.

 

I agree, if you want to have people buy cartel gear, you need to lower or eliminate the cost to pull mods and reduce the cost to add augment slots. We already have a cost of buying the augment kit, that should remain as it is a crafted item and improves the economy.

 

in short, lower cost promotes more Cartel market gear swapping and purchases. People like to change up the look and gear at times. However the cost to do it is too much.

[DakotaDoc]

adding an augment kit is 42k of credit sink per item. the money paid to the station does not go to a player. they could just add a 2% tax to any character with over 5 million once a month...would work fine.

 

customizing characters builds attachment to that character. that builds attachment to the game. genericharacters dont help to keep people playing and definately dont build cartel coin sales. the current system works against the population and profits of the game.

 

WHAT? why to just the people over 5 Mil. I don't get your reasoning, it sounds very communistic. Take from the rich (5mil is not rich) and give to no one. Really bad idea.

 

This idea would just make people really mad for little to no reason.

[DakotaDoc]

I agree that mod pulling is much too big a credit sink, and it mainly serves to discourage players form using custom gear appearances for themselves and their companions, which in turns hurts sales of these armors that come form the Cartel Market.

 

I agree, 100%

[Exiled-Phoenix]

lol, like its hard to get 300k in this game...

 

- Farm dailies

- que for flash point

- que for warzones

- que for GSF (lolnoonedoesthat)

- run lower level flash points solo

- slicer on yavin

- craft and sell on the GTN

- buy and sell on the GTN

- raiding without wiping 10x

 

All of these options are a solid source of credits, there is no need to make something free in this game.

[Aussircaex]

People need to learn what a credit sink is. Credit sink removes credits from the economy. Buying outfits doesn't count unless its from a vendor in game. Augments and augments kits aren't credit sinks, the credits go to another player.

 

Just wanted to note here: assuming they are purchased from a vendor, each Augmentation Kit Mk-10 removes 9600 credits from the economy due to the white mats consumed in their production (20 are required to make RE components, but 10 are retrieves through RE, plus two to make the kit), plus several thousand spent on the Slicing mission to produce the sliced parts. They also cost 44,000 to install. That's the sink.

[Azbaleth]

Hm think some players want things getting to easy, as if getting credits in this game is hard:rolleyes:

 

Do daylies in Section X, Black Hole and Ilum only and for that money u can change the mods every day:p

[Halinalle]

Buying something from another player =/= credit sink

 

One of my level 60 is currently at 3,7 million, sorry, at 3,2 million because I just sent 500k to one of my lowbie alts. See how much I care. Credits are difficult to earn? Yeah, right...

Edited January 3, 2015 by Halinalle

[KyaniteD]

Buying something from another player =/= credit sink

 

One of my level 60 is currently at 3,7 million, sorry, at 3,2 million because I just sent 500k to one of my lowbie alts. See how much I care. Credits are difficult to earn? Yeah, right...

 

That's very nice. So how willing and ready would you be to spend 1M of those 3.2M on an outfit change?

[Halinalle]

That's very nice. So how willing and ready would you be to spend 1M of those 3.2M on an outfit change?

 

It's less than 300k to remove all mods from armor pieces.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

That's very nice. So how willing and ready would you be to spend 1M of those 3.2M on an outfit change?

 

1M ? Yes lets all start throwing around imaginary numbers.

[KyaniteD]

1M ? Yes lets all start throwing around imaginary numbers.

 

Not quite as imaginary for 7 pieces of armor:

 

5 items x 4 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 234,000

2 items x 3 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 70,200

7x 42,000 augmentation kit installation = 294,000

7x ~50,000 new augmentation kits = ~350,000

= 948,000

 

(Even if you craft the kits yourself, you still spend time and resources of about that value. And it's still 600k pure credit sink.)

Edited January 3, 2015 by KyaniteD

[Halinalle]

Not quite as imaginary for 7 pieces of armor:

 

5 items x 4 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 234,000

2 items x 3 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 70,200

7x 42,000 augmentation kit installation = 294,000

7x ~50,000 new augmentation kits = 350,000

= 948,000

 

(Even if you craft the kits yourself, you still spend time and resources of about that value. And it's still 600k pure credit sink.)

 

That's why you augment only when you know you'll continue using that armor set.

Again, buying something from another player /= credit sink.

Yes, credits are removed from your character but not from economy.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Halinalle

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Not quite as imaginary for 7 pieces of armor:

 

5 items x 4 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 234,000

2 items x 3 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 70,200

7x 42,000 augmentation kit installation = 294,000

7x ~50,000 new augmentation kits = ~350,000

= 948,000

 

(Even if you craft the kits yourself, you still spend time and resources of about that value. And it's still 600k pure credit sink.)

 

Crafting augment kits can be done for free, just go to Yavin and farm up some nodes for the resources.

Also, augmenting is not a requirement , if you like switching gear so much then don't augment them.

As for spending time, time is not a currency.

You choose how much time you want to spend on this game.

 

And even if you need 1 million to switch outfits, 1 million is not that much cash to make in a months time....

[Karkais]

I think the game needs credit sinks, and I wouldn't remove this one, even though it hurts me a great deal since I care about the appearance of my characters.

 

Crafting augment kits can be done for free, just go to Yavin and farm up some nodes for the resources.

 

Assuming you are subscriber and can actually have crafting slots. (or buy them)

Edited January 3, 2015 by Karkais

[KyaniteD]

That's why you augment only when you know you'll continue using that armor set.

Again, buying something from another player /= credit sink.

Yes, credits are removed from your character but not from economy.

 

Yes, I think we already established all that a couple of times in this thread, with the basic point being that the combined costs of both sink and trade are a disincentive to more frequent changes, and that in turn resulting in less interest in obtaining and unlocking new armor sets. The long retention time of a particular outfit due to costs stands against an increasing number of new armor sets being released that are not being used to the extent many players might like to use them because they feel it is not worth the current costs. In the end it's potentially hurting both the players and BW.

 

The argument would have looked differently before the cartel market was introduced. But CM has changed a couple of dynamics and considerations. With CM, BW should be interested in making it easy for people to change outfits frequently, but as you stated yourself, the current implementation provides more of an incentive to keep an outfit as long as possible.

Edited January 3, 2015 by KyaniteD

[Rhyltran]

Now with 3.0 and the new feature of removing the credit cost of abilities this current credit sink with mods needs to go also. It costs about 12k-13k per mod just to pull it out and times that by three mods per piece of armor minus belt and bracers comes out to 180k for all armor minus belt/bracer. If you add the other two its 228000 every time you want to make a new look for your character. If you also wish for a new offhand and main hand the new total is 312000 credits.

 

Personally my opinion is with all this cartel market outfits that is always being added people want to wear but do not wish to spend 300k plus to mod out a new outfit.

 

The solution you ask is we have two options. First we can remove the cost of removing mods from armor or we can add a new feature to the game an appearnace tab that overrides the current armor and shows the cosmetic armor of our choice.

 

Either of these two choices will boost the market for people buying cartel armor and help the overall economy in my opinion by removing a very silly credit sink.

 

Thoughts and opinions will be appreciated and thank you for your time.

 

This this a thousand times this. If the custom appearance is supposed to be something to truly allow ourselves to customize our appearance then why is it such a huge credit sink? It makes creating my own armor set daunting as well as taxing. This needs to go to allow freedom of customization to go to everyone instead of just those who know how to make money.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Assuming you are subscriber and can actually have crafting slots. (or buy them)

 

F2P and preferred players can also have crafting skills.

F2P are limited to 1 crew skill

Preferred are limited to 2 crew skills

Both will get a FREE extra crew skill slot if they click on someones referral link.

 

Which means that both F2P and preferred have access to at least 2 crew skills.

example: 1 synthweaver and 1 archeology crew skill i enough to craft augmentation slots, especially with blue mats being cheaper then NPC prices on the GTN.

[JattaGin]

I am not short of credits. I spent about 15 millions on stupid fluff stuff during the last 2 weeks (when people sold items from the old packs that I am still missing).

 

I have all armor sets except the Revan ones, Tulak's, XoXaan's and Satele's.

 

But I have used the same old boring Space Hotshot set on my main for like 2 years (or whenever I maxed out space comms back in the days). And now, at level 60, I use the armor you get for comms. I don't even put the mods into my Hotshot set anymore.

 

I like to aqcuire credits in the game and I like even more spending credits. And yes, I do both a lot.

 

But I never change my char's appearances. The only reason: the costs for removing the mods are just way too high for me and I don't enjoy that. It annoys me more than it appeals to me.

 

Instead I spent my credits on stuff that I neither need nor use. Why? It makes more fun to me.

 

I would love to change my armor regularly. If I go to Hoth, I put on that winter jacket. If I go to Tatooine I'd use an armor that protects me from the sun. Rishi is quite warm and moist, so I would put on some more casual clothes there. In a raid, I would put on heavyweight trooper armor. In Huttball, my sports sets. In my stronghold I would use a training outfit. Well, the latter I can do already now.

 

The credit sink here discourages me to do that. I don't mind credit sinks, for example in form of repair costs. I had no problems with the training costs either. Or the costs for crafting schematics. But making me pay crazy amounts just to be able to use an armor that I already paid for crazy amounts (whether credits or real life money) is in my opinion just wrong.

 

TL;DR: I am all for an appearance tab!

[RiVaN_]

I think that rather than removing the credit sink, perhaps they should lower the amount and implement a cosmetic tab. The cost to rip out the stat generating pieces is getting pretty high again, the last time the prices got high the Dev's lowered them across the board.

 

Maybe it is time that we see a 25% drop in this cost and a 30% drop for subscribers?

 

I think that is a fair trade off.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Cmon, that is asking for a touch much, isnt it? I mean they just removedmthe ability upgrade cost, I mean everything cant be free. It is very easy to make credits in this game, especially when you start doing dailies. There has to be some credit sinks.

[Divona]

The cost for pulling mods is an unnecessary credit sink. So many other credit sinks have been introduced into the game since then that it has become overkill. (Strongholds - unlocks, decorations; Conquest - crafting, guild ships; Augment "installation" fees.)

 

It's a deterrent to enjoying a major aspect of the game, which is customizing your char's look. There is no logical reason to discourage outfit-changing in the game and other games do not charge such fees. I would gladly be buying many more armors for my chars if I knew I could change them whenever I wanted. Right now the cost is quite prohibitive for me:

 

Outfit cost

Pulling mod cost

Pulling mod cost again if I am swapping companion mods

Augment kit cost

Augment cost

Augment installation cost

 

And this goes for every single piece of clothing my character wears, not whole outfits! That's seven pieces of armor, nine if you count the weapons, and then each individual piece times three for all the mods. Several times I have bought awesome new sets of armor only to have them wallow unused in my cargo bay, once I realized how ridiculous the cost would be to change. No one likes watching their credits disappear into nowhere for no good reason.

 

And don't even consider re-outfitting your companions in cool, new looks either, because that's just adding insult to injury.

 

Yep you nailed it. I have done many full change on my main and few alts many times. Usually when new CM armor set appears that i like. If you want to change whole gear + augments it costs around 800k now it is close to 1m.

 

If people think this is ok amount of credit sink then so be it. I for one dont have issue with credits at all. i could play this game for 1 year without ANY income of credit but i still see removing armor mods cost just too high. Most players dont have luxury to change outfit along with augments. That hurts CM sales aswell, think about it BW.

[EnkiduNineEight]

The solution you ask is we have two options. First we can remove the cost of removing mods from armor or we can add a new feature to the game an appearnace tab that overrides the current armor and shows the cosmetic armor of our choice.

 

Thoughts and opinions will be appreciated and thank you for your time.

 

I have a 5Star thread in the suggestions forum requesting a cosmetic appearance system and making it work within the existing interface etc.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=731747

 

You mentioned companions in your post though, so I am going to go ahead and update that thread shortly with an addition for them as well.

 

So I obviously support this idea in terms of creating a cosmetic appearance option.

 

I vociferously DO NOT support making removal of mods easier/cheaper. Its already been reduced more than adequately, free mod swapping would be a problem for the game.

Edited January 3, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[RiVaN_]

Cmon, that is asking for a touch much, isnt it? I mean they just removedmthe ability upgrade cost, I mean everything cant be free. It is very easy to make credits in this game, especially when you start doing dailies. There has to be some credit sinks.

 

I agree not everything can be free, it could be cheaper.

I agree credits are easily made, doing dailies sucks after about the 3rd day and there are better more fun things to experience.

 

I think a compromise is a better solution. Keep the credit sink make optimizing and customizing cost money, but lower the credit cost.

 

If all items are purchased on the GTN, with comms and Token drops it will cost the average player over 3 million credits to optimize and augment a set of custom gear. While I understand that this gives players a reason to play the game and experience content, group with others and help others learn more about game play, it is also expensive.

I wonder if the Devs would consider a 25% Drop in the cost of pulling pieces out of drops and token gear as well as the cost of adding an augment slot? Perhaps we see that be a 30% drop for subscribers?

[Andryah]

I would generally support this, some kind of system change that would reduce the required frequency of mod swaps (perhaps a separate appearance system (paperdoll)) or a simple further reduction in cost.

 

The easiest is probably the final option. If they reduced costs to around 25 percent of what they are now, the cost would be negligible IMO.

 

At the same time they should remove all level and class requirements from moddable gear of all types. To have those kind of restrictions in place is silly IMO. There is plenty of moddable gear that folks can craft that would be much more appealing if it didn't have level and class restrictions.

 

Maybe we should just remove credits from the game, and every other form of currency, and players can just hit local kiosks set up every 50 meters in game where they can have as many of everything for free as they like. And, people would still complain.

 

Yes, I am being facetious here... but my larger point is that MMOs are designed with player economies in mind (not just buying/selling with other players, but a complete top to bottom economy model). This means in game currency (as a resource) and things to spend said resource on. This is the easiest MMO to create wealth in that I have ever played over the last 14 years. The fact that some people are bad at it, lazy at it, feel entitled, or simply want their particular hot button credit expense on the "free" is completely beside the point.

 

TL;DR let the game producers manage the major economy influencing knobs on the game. Our role as players of the game is to work the parameters of the game for fun and personal progress. Welfare systems have no place in MMOs. By all means make suggestions up in the suggestions box for things you would like considered by the devs. But this constant complaining and demanding in general forum over this credit cost or that credit cost has reached levels of absurdity IMO.

 

Separately: As a practical matter.. people should be careful what they wish for. IF you remove the costs to remove mods, then you must also embrace the cost of mods = zero credits if you go to vendor them. Why? Because they appear to have been designed together from the beginning to allow free movement of mods, while preventing mod pulling for vendor credits (profit farming). In other words.. there was a balance designed in (and adjusted several times by the way until they got it where they wanted it).

Edited January 3, 2015 by Andryah

[ivanhedgehog]

It's less than 300k to remove all mods from armor pieces.

 

its 420k to put augments in 10 pieces. that is just the install cost