best pvp dps spec?

[levizle]

Hey guys just wondering what spec you all are finding best for 3.0 pvp.

[Zoom_VI]

Gunnery/Arensal, its got the burst to be effective. IO/Assault's is plagued by the fact the spec can't switch targets to save its own life.

[Prapcaster]

I would go arsenal/gunnery. IO/Assault is still pretty good and is very mobile, it just feels very lacking now.

[Darth__Reaver]

They are wrong go pyro bro I play both specs pyro is so much better.

Pros- pyro

1. You have far more mobility now do to ToTH.

2. Your dots pretty much destroy assassins.

3. You also get extra crit from the pyro spec (you don't have to stack as many crit mods/enhanc

4. Chaff flare increase defense chance by 25%

Cons- pyro

1. You can over heat real easy just learn not too but its really hard.

2. You don't burst like arsenal

 

Pros- arsenal

1. Huge burst I've hit for 16k

2. With ToTH its makes this spec way better then before

3. Chaff flare if timed is very good move

 

Cons- arsenal

1. Even tho ToTH helps with mobility and so does priming shot. However at some point you still have to stand and fire in pvp this is a huge disadvantage.

2. This spec is not ment for ranked

3. Only if left alone can you top a sorc

 

 

Well i can't think of anything else atm I'm on a double at work. However both specs are great in pvp IF you can play them well. I min maxed my toon in full dark Reaver so far pyro does the most damage overall but arsenal honest is liel right next to it. Both spec dps wise is the same.

[ishbindeinvater]

They are wrong go pyro bro I play both specs pyro is so much better.

Pros- pyro

1. You have far more mobility now do to ToTH.

2. Your dots pretty much destroy assassins.

3. You also get extra crit from the pyro spec (you don't have to stack as many crit mods/enhanc

4. Chaff flare increase defense chance by 25%

Cons- pyro

1. You can over heat real easy just learn not too but its really hard.

2. You don't burst like arsenal

 

Pros- arsenal

1. Huge burst I've hit for 16k

2. With ToTH its makes this spec way better then before

3. Chaff flare if timed is very good move

 

Cons- arsenal

1. Even tho ToTH helps with mobility and so does priming shot. However at some point you still have to stand and fire in pvp this is a huge disadvantage.

2. This spec is not ment for ranked

3. Only if left alone can you top a sorc

 

 

Well i can't think of anything else atm I'm on a double at work. However both specs are great in pvp IF you can play them well. I min maxed my toon in full dark Reaver so far pyro does the most damage overall but arsenal honest is liel right next to it. Both spec dps wise is the same.

 

A dot spec destroys assassins? Very bad assassins? You do know that they got 2 purges and always open on you?

[Darth__Reaver]

A dot spec destroys assassins? Very bad assassins? You do know that they got 2 purges and always open on you?

 

Um powertechs now get opened on. Merc still do as well but ya merc vs sin is nothing like it was pre 3.0 all sins have is shroud but do remember I don't play an assassin.

[levizle]

thanks for all the tips guys.

[Cotlu-Hunlon]

Personally Assault spec beats Gunnery for me in PvP.

 

Sure demo round bursts hard but gunnery really fails to pressure someone after the initial damage.

 

You can do pretty much 9/10 attacks as Assault on the move (full auto on the move is defintely good for assault, worth taking), but gunnery has to stand still for those grav rounds eventually and it feels terrible having no choice but to stand there and let someone wreck on you. Assault backs up huge dots with big hits. Assault Plastique + Mag Bolt + Charged Bolts + Mag Bolt is a huge amount of burst, especially with the Supercharge DoT added in

Edited January 3, 2015 by Cotlu-Hunlon

[Gyronamics]

Why has no one said the words:

 

"Innovative Ordinance sucks for swapping targets"

 

Also the small matter that Arsenals Blazing Bolts slows targets for 70% for 5 seconds to cause grief to anyone without a speed enhancer.

[levizle]

Why has no one said the words:

 

"Innovative Ordinance sucks for swapping targets"

 

Also the small matter that Arsenals Blazing Bolts slows targets for 70% for 5 seconds to cause grief to anyone without a speed enhancer.

. IO/Assault's is plagued by the fact the spec can't switch targets to save its own life.

thats a good idea on the gunnery slow thanks

[DariusCalera]

Personally Assault spec beats Gunnery for me in PvP.

 

Sure demo round bursts hard but gunnery really fails to pressure someone after the initial damage.

 

You can do pretty much 9/10 attacks as Assault on the move (full auto on the move is defintely good for assault, worth taking), but gunnery has to stand still for those grav rounds eventually and it feels terrible having no choice but to stand there and let someone wreck on you. Assault backs up huge dots with big hits. Assault Plastique + Mag Bolt + Charged Bolts + Mag Bolt is a huge amount of burst, especially with the Supercharge DoT added in

 

So you don't like standing around for Grav Round but fine with standing around for Charged Bolts? With both specs you're going to have to stand around eventually to cast.

[ishbindeinvater]

Um powertechs now get opened on. Merc still do as well but ya merc vs sin is nothing like it was pre 3.0 all sins have is shroud but do remember I don't play an assassin.

 

Ok, but it's rare that a Merc opens up on a sin, rather the opposit!

 

I would say, Merc vs sin, no chance, same like Merc vs concealment operative. Both have 2 purges and evasion/deflection is just too good vs Merc, especially the immunity to everything deflection. And concealment got the dodge rolls too.

 

I would say a Merc stands a good chance vs a lot of classes when well played BUT assassins and operatives. That's the cryptonite for mercs and snipers. Assassin is the cryptonite for everything :-) except probably a well played jugg due to enraged defense and saber reflect

Edited January 3, 2015 by ishbindeinvater

[Darth__Reaver]

Ok, but it's rare that a Merc opens up on a sin, rather the opposit!

 

I would say, Merc vs sin, no chance, same like Merc vs concealment operative. Both have 2 purges and evasion/deflection is just too good vs Merc, especially the immunity to everything deflection. And concealment got the dodge rolls too.

 

I would say a Merc stands a good chance vs a lot of classes when well played BUT assassins and operatives. That's the cryptonite for mercs and snipers. Assassin is the cryptonite for everything :-) except probably a well played jugg due to enraged defense and saber reflect

 

You forget that we just eat openers now. No use in breaking stuns when your doing 30% least damage plus if ES is active thats 55% if your pyro and pop chaff flare with the rest we just laugh at your dps. unless you have a buddy sin cuz then were kinda ****ed.

[Gyronamics]

You forget that we just eat openers now. No use in breaking stuns when your doing 30% least damage plus if ES is active thats 55% if your pyro and pop chaff flare with the rest we just laugh at your dps. unless you have a buddy sin cuz then were kinda ****ed.

 

Interesting logic.

 

Taking 30% less damage while they take 0% damage is a good thing?

 

Two mercs fight each other doing the same dps, one stuns the other and gets ahead on damage. The other one doesn't and dies first.

 

You don't win by being stunned you merely increase survival time, you still come out of a stun worse off.

[Powerstation]

As others have said:

Arsenal - good burst - quick initial damage, but needs to turret to finish the job it seems.

IO - good damage over time, if left alone you can tear some classes apart (but isn't that the case for anyone?).

 

Overall - we're often destroyed in pvp.

It's been my main since beta, and in pvp I'm often worthless unless the other team simply ignores me (or if we have a healer that'll spend 90% of their time on me), but IF that happens, I can put up some very nice damage and kills. But it almost never happens. We're just too easy to kill.

 

Assassins, PTs, Sorcs and Juggs pretty much just laugh at me as they kill me.

PTs I can hurt, but I'll lose. Sorcs I can hurt, but I'll lose and they'll be healed up before I can even respawn.

Assassins and guardians - seems I can't do squat to them at all. Especially assassins. If a jugg blows his CDs, sometimes I can leave a mark. Assassins...ya, it's just as effective if I stand there and die instead of attack.

 

This is what I find, anyways. And yes, I know I'm not the best at pvp. I do the best I can do. And I am persistent.

What is horrible though is when I do venture in to ranked (sometimes I just feel like taking abuse I guess). Ranked often offers 2 forms of humiliation - being insta-killed, and having your team tell you how awful you are for being insta-killed.

[ViolentAngel]

You forget that we just eat openers now.

 

Isn't that the reason why everyone wants to see Mercs get an escape/force target switch:rak_02:?

[MotorCityMan]

As far as pvp is concerned, Commando dps are just crafting bots being taken out for a spin. Play a guardian or Shadow, or if you want range, at least a sage.

[Gyronamics]

In arenas your typical role is as a tank.

 

90-100,000 damage taken without a healer is what you can get away with under focused fire unless you screw up the way you layer your defences and heals.

 

That's the kind of damage a jug can take not including the effect of sabre reflect of course.

 

The class is capable of taking a lot of damage but there's absolutely nothing to discourage attackers from burning through you. You're not going anywhere and you can't do much damage while defending yourself.

[ForceWelder]

My opinion ...

 

My focus right now is gunnery Commando. I also only do unranked PVP. After running potentially over 100 matches in a mix of tier 1 and tier 2 PVP gear at level 60 this is my opinion on how the commando fairs.

 

Quite simply. They suck. And why do they suck? They suck because in a game of rock, paper, sissors it alwasy seems that the Imps play the paper against your rock.

 

What I mean by that is on Po5 server, all the Imps play force users. And they simply rip you to pieces.

 

For starters, you have no escapes. You either kill the guys trying to kill you or you die. Our "Oh, #$%#" button is our shield. But our shield unlike other classes only reduces damage by 25%. So instead of getting hit each time for 9k, 10,k, or more. You now get hit for 6k, 7k, or more. In other words, all that bubble did was save you long enough to live through one additional attack. Two at most.

 

But you say don't commandos have multiple stuns?

 

Sure we do and I use them all to know avail. Hit a guy with cryo grenade. It gets purged. Hit them again with your second stun (only holds them in place) they go and purge that too. You try to use your cuncussion round for a 1 min stun, and you never get it off. They hit you with an interrupt. At that point you try to do a knock back and that saves you for another split second or two. Then they are right back in your face. So at that point you pop your bubble, and you have now burned through everything you got defense wise. And while you were doing that. Your oponent dotted you up, or hit you repeatedly and you haven't even had a chance to do the first attack. So you pop your PVP heal and that might give you about 12k of health. You are now about down to half health and you have barely even hit your opponent yet. So you already lost the fight.

 

Oh, and did I mention in 4 VS 4 suddent death you are a favorite focus attack? The Imps know you can't purge their DOTS and you can expect at least one stealther to attack you right off the bat. That is followed by focus from one or two other players. Your dead (or soon afterwards) as soon as you are stunned. That second or two to break the stun and hit them with a grav round is all the time it takes to leave you dead on the floor.

 

As for mobility, you really don't have any. You can spec so that some of your attacks can be done on the move. But our best attack boltstorm gets activated by attacks that you can only use standing still. So you are a howitzer simply put. Sadly though the Imps again are playing mostly force users which are all very mobile classes. So you are constantly spinning to keep them in line of sight. And you are always a target. Again, shield only lowers your damage, your stuns are quickly purged, and you have to stay put just to do any real damage. You are a wet dream come true for most of the Imp PVP players because their strengths can all be applied to your weaknesses.

 

So in a nutshell what do you do? Roll something else. Fight fire with fire and roll a sage. Unless you like be a glunten for punishment like myself.

 

Commandos can tear through PVE content like nobody's business but they sure have a problem just holding their own in PVP. Unless you simply are lucky, got a pocket healer by your side, or have very fast reflexes and no zero lag so that you can respond near instanteously to an attack, you will spin quite a bit of time rezing.

[Macroeconomics]

I strongly prefer the IO Merc to Arsenal for pvp.

 

Back in 2.10 the Arsenal Merc had better defensive abilities, and since survivability was at a premium for Mercs, Arsenal was better for pvp. In 3.0, well, survivability is still at a premium for Mercs. But frankly the IO Merc has more survivability. All the great Arsenal defensive abilities in 2.10 were moved into the utility tree. So IO Merc has access to them too. And IO Merc now has an additional shield that Arsenal does not.

 

What about AoE damage ability? IO Merc clearly comes out ahead of Arsenal Merc. This is at the expense of a tighter resource stack, but well worth it.

 

What about burst? IO actually has better burst. MagShot/short chopped Unload/MagShot has more burst than TM/HSM, even if you have no prior DoTs on the target. Add in DoTs and a prior TD application and IO damage output in a short time window is much better than Arsenal. Arsenal's advantage is damage output in a medium length window of about 10 seconds - PrimingShot/BB/TM/HSM/BB is a ton of damage that IO can not match. But a sequence of that length is not "burst".

 

What about mobility? Again IO wins. The only way Arsenal can match IO's mobility is by taking Thrill of the Hunt. Which means giving up Energy Rebounder or Stabilized Armor. Which just magnifies IO's survivability advantage.

 

IO Merc right now gives you a a lot of flexibility. You can burst. Or you can go sustained damage. You can be fully mobile at the expense of slightly reduced damage. Or you can go max damage output at the cost of mobility. And critically, you can choose between these within a wz w/o respeccing.

 

The problem with IO is its complexity. It is arguably the hardest class to play right now in PvP. You have four different DoTs to use. You have three different DoT AoE spreaders to proc. You have three other procs to manage and you need to do all that while kiting. No wonder I rarely see IO Mercs, yet I still see plenty of Arsenal Mercs. But the payoff if you can handle that difficulty is pretty clear. I'd estimate I do 30-40% more damage with IO than I do with Arsenal in pvp. It's a big difference.

[Macroeconomics]

In arenas your typical role is as a tank.

 

90-100,000 damage taken without a healer is what you can get away with under focused fire unless you screw up the way you layer your defences and heals.

 

That's the kind of damage a jug can take not including the effect of sabre reflect of course.

 

I think this is an aspect that is not well understood right now about Merc dps. There are actually cases where as a IO Merc, I WANT the enemy to focus fire on me. But it's tricky - I must have my cc breaker available. Consider the arena case of 1 heal + 3 dps on each team. Enemy starts by chain stunning me. I must be extremely quick and be able to insert my cc breaker and Chaff Flare before they restun me. At that point I have a 30% DR, a 25% DR and my armor. They simply aren't going to kill me. Once I come out of stun, Chaff Flare is about to roll off but you can pop wz adrenal and shield so again you have 15% DR, 25% DR and armor for the next 15 seconds. At the end of that my team has had a 20+ second window where the entire enemy team's dps has been tank-like mitigated and all of my teammates have been free casting/whacking. That should be a win.

[ForceWelder]

I think this is an aspect that is not well understood right now about Merc dps. There are actually cases where as a IO Merc, I WANT the enemy to focus fire on me. But it's tricky - I must have my cc breaker available. Consider the arena case of 1 heal + 3 dps on each team. Enemy starts by chain stunning me. I must be extremely quick and be able to insert my cc breaker and Chaff Flare before they restun me. At that point I have a 30% DR, a 25% DR and my armor. They simply aren't going to kill me. Once I come out of stun, Chaff Flare is about to roll off but you can pop wz adrenal and shield so again you have 15% DR, 25% DR and armor for the next 15 seconds. At the end of that my team has had a 20+ second window where the entire enemy team's dps has been tank-like mitigated and all of my teammates have been free casting/whacking. That should be a win.

 

I wish I could agree with you. But what I see more often than not on the Republic side is all DPS. Few healers and tanks. I realize that each server's population is different, but for some reason there just isn't much variation in the class makeups right now on my server.

 

But there have been a few cases when I have played on the Imp side on my server where you have 3 healers and 1 DPS in a sudden death match. You would think this would be a nighmare to play. But the reality is the opposing team can't beat you. With three healers, the opposing team simply can't stun you all. Regardless of who is focused on you have one to two healers keeping the third alive. Mean while your only DPS is walking around like a god completely ignored. It is a longer than normal match but the end result is massive heal numbers and an opposing team all dead on the floor.

[ishbindeinvater]

I think this is an aspect that is not well understood right now about Merc dps. There are actually cases where as a IO Merc, I WANT the enemy to focus fire on me. But it's tricky - I must have my cc breaker available. Consider the arena case of 1 heal + 3 dps on each team. Enemy starts by chain stunning me. I must be extremely quick and be able to insert my cc breaker and Chaff Flare before they restun me. At that point I have a 30% DR, a 25% DR and my armor. They simply aren't going to kill me. Once I come out of stun, Chaff Flare is about to roll off but you can pop wz adrenal and shield so again you have 15% DR, 25% DR and armor for the next 15 seconds. At the end of that my team has had a 20+ second window where the entire enemy team's dps has been tank-like mitigated and all of my teammates have been free casting/whacking. That should be a win.

 

Normally this chain stunning leads to your death

[Macroeconomics]

Normally this chain stunning leads to your death

 

It still will. But as I pointed out, not for awhile. And *IF* you have an adequate team, they should be able to take advantage of the situation. You know what that means of course - half the time you wind up dead and your teammates haven't done anything....