Original companions are completely useless now that we have Treek and HK-51

[Exquisitr]

For leveljng or doing dailies choose the companion you like to play with, the one that matches your style. Mobs die so fast it doesn't really matter which companion you use. For some boss fights in quest lines it may make a difference, but not for normal quests and storylines. For bosses a healer can help, but it depends on how good you are with interrupts and defensive play.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

We earned that ****, through game-play at an advanced level, not by waving a *********** credit card around, we can bloody well use it if we feel like, especially if it makes [DAILY]s --a chore, not a challenge, or fun-- go faster, so we can then have more time to do the actual fun stuff.

 

This is some next level hypocrisy right here. Golf claps all around! Seriously. Do you know where the money on that credit card comes from? Somebody's job. Where they earned that money. If they wanna use it to buy Treek, they can bloody well use her if they feel like. You wanna use high level raid gear for dailies? You earned it! So go ahead. Really, I don't see anything wrong with that. But the minute you snub your nose at somebody using Treek, then I have a problem. Because your play style is not the be all end all, your definition of fun is not everybody else's definition of fun, and what you feel is "earning something" may not be somebody else's definition of "earning something." You have no right to tell people what companion they should or shouldn't use, especially using that tired "you didn't earn it!" crap that holds no ground. Unless you think money just grows on trees so playing a video game is worth more than doing a job and earning money.

 

Post above me hits the nail on the head, though. Let's not pretend this game is Dark Souls and Treek is God Mode, a good player with Treek is going to have an easier time with levelling content which, for some, can be quite tedious and not fun regardless of the level of challenge. A bad player with Treek is still going to be a bad player and while they may make it through a few more battles than before, she's not gonna save them when they screw up boss mechanics or something.

 

Anyway. On topic. I disagree that original companions are useless. I have Treek and I only use her on one character (my Marauder, because holy crap I hate Quinn), on my Sentinel that has the exact same play style I happily use Doc. He heals me extremely well and I haven't even considered using Treek instead.

Edited December 25, 2014 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[midianlord]

This is some next level hypocrisy right here. Golf claps all around! Seriously. Do you know where the money on that credit card comes from? Somebody's job. Where they earned that money. If they wanna use it to buy Treek, they can bloody well use her if they feel like. You wanna use high level raid gear for dailies? You earned it! So go ahead. Really, I don't see anything wrong with that. But the minute you snub your nose at somebody using Treek, then I have a problem. Because your play style is not the be all end all, your definition of fun is not everybody else's definition of fun, and what you feel is "earning something" may not be somebody else's definition of "earning something." You have no right to tell people what companion they should or shouldn't use, especially using that tired "you didn't earn it!" crap that holds no ground. Unless you think money just grows on trees so playing a video game is worth more than doing a job and earning money.

 

Post above me hits the nail on the head, though. Let's not pretend this game is Dark Souls and Treek is God Mode, a good player with Treek is going to have an easier time with levelling content which, for some, can be quite tedious and not fun regardless of the level of challenge. A bad player with Treek is still going to be a bad player and while they may make it through a few more battles than before, she's not gonna save them when they screw up boss mechanics or something.

 

Anyway. On topic. I disagree that original companions are useless. I have Treek and I only use her on one character (my Marauder, because holy crap I hate Quinn), on my Sentinel that has the exact same play style I happily use Doc. He heals me extremely well and I haven't even considered using Treek instead.

 

Nope:

 

False equivalence is false.

 

Earning real money at a job =/= earning things in a game through gameplay.

 

Using real-money to take a --perceived, and mostly wrongly-- shortcut through normal gameplay subverts the whole idea behind the game, especially one as explicitly vertical-progression based as this one.

 

Do keep trying, though. Perhaps a few more all-caps words --or different pretty font-colours! Mustn't forget those!-- will make that utterly lame, tired argument a bit more convincing, but:

 

I snub those who use that....repellent, crassly monetised thing...because they are quite obviously looking for easy-mode, and in so doing, perpetuating the spread of monetisation --and with that, comes the ever-looming spectre of possible pay-to-win-- through this MMO, and through MMOs in general.

 

I am not snubbing anyone's actual playstyle. Neither, however, am I obligated to respect it (nor they, mine.).

 

I am snubbing the long term affects that their choice to shamelessly embrace monetisation, and what it has done, and continues to do to the MMOs I love.

 

I submit that our hobby/addiction would be in a much better place if more people did that.

Edited December 25, 2014 by midianlord

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

Earning real money at a job =/= earning things in a game through gameplay.

 

Oh yes, I agree with that whole heartedly. Earning real money at a job is much more difficult. The whole point I was trying to make there was that you implying that somebody hasn't earned Treek while you have earned your top-tier raid gear to fly through dailies (subverting the challenge of said dailies whether you want to admit that or not, but again, more power to you there) is laughable. They earned Treek and they can use her, and they're no less of a player than you just because they don't conform to your standards.

 

I snub those who use that....repellent, crassly monetised thing...because they are quite obviously looking for easy-mode, and in so doing, perpetuating the spread of monetisation --and with that, comes the ever-looming spectre of possible pay-to-win-- through this MMO, and through MMOs in general.

 

Now you're generalizing to make your point. That's wonderful. Quite obviously everybody that uses raid gear in dailies is lazy and wants easy credits, should just go buy credits from the gold farmers! See how unreasonable that is to say? Do you get what I'm trying to point out to you? Keep generalizing though if that's what makes you happy, totally ruins your argument though.

 

I am not snubbing anyone's actual playstyle. Neither, however, am I obligated to respect it (nor they, mine.).

 

I am snubbing the long term affects that their choice to shamelessly embrace monetisation, and what it has done, and continues to do to the MMOs I love.

 

I submit that our hobby/addiction would be in a much better place if more people did that.

 

But you're willing to generalize and insult those who do use Treek because they play differently than you do. Sounds like snubbing your nose at them. Maybe you should let people play how they want to play instead of whining and complaining about something that doesn't affect you at all (you don't have to use Treek and Treek isn't even solely monetized, you can buy her with credits if you want to earn those in game!).

 

I submit that our hobby/addiction would be in a much better place if more people did that.

[Drew_Braxton]

I don't get the point. You may pay for Treek, but she comes with level 10 gear. You still need to earn the gear if you use her at higher levels. There is no way to buy an OP companion. I came from pay to play games and I think Bioware has done a good job keeping the game from becoming pay to play. Nothing you can buy via cartel coins will give you a competitive advantage over what you can buy with credits in game or earning it the hard way.

 

Still prefer HK-51 though . 21 HK-51's and worth every penny!

[light_senshi]

I leveled my Mara using nothing but Vette, which made for an interesting experience.

 

Treek tends to be horribly overrated.

[Eladsry]

Nope:

 

False equivalence is false.

 

Earning real money at a job =/= earning things in a game through gameplay.

 

Using real-money to take a --perceived, and mostly wrongly-- shortcut through normal gameplay subverts the whole idea behind the game, especially one as explicitly vertical-progression based as this one.

 

Do keep trying, though. Perhaps a few more all-caps words --or different pretty font-colours! Mustn't forget those!-- will make that utterly lame, tired argument a bit more convincing, but:

 

I snub those who use that....repellent, crassly monetised thing...because they are quite obviously looking for easy-mode, and in so doing, perpetuating the spread of monetisation --and with that, comes the ever-looming spectre of possible pay-to-win-- through this MMO, and through MMOs in general.

 

I am not snubbing anyone's actual playstyle. Neither, however, am I obligated to respect it (nor they, mine.).

 

I am snubbing the long term affects that their choice to shamelessly embrace monetisation, and what it has done, and continues to do to the MMOs I love.

 

I submit that our hobby/addiction would be in a much better place if more people did that.

 

You sir, made me lol (literally, I woke my wife). Gaming culture is at a serious shortage of elitism and pointless snobbery, so I'm glad you're around.

 

FYI, the MMO is a constantly changing and evolving beast. They are nothing like they were in the days of Lord British, and in 20 years they will be nothing like they are today. However, they always have been and will always be monetized. Video games are products, people pay money to play them, complaining about how your favorite game developer collects said money is a bit silly. Especially when it goes towards improving and expanding the game.

 

P.S. Treek is annoying, I regret unlocking her =P

[LordArtemis]

I feel they could give HK far more value if the "assassinate" ability did not require charges, and instead had a longer cooldown.

[HazardousMatt]

I snub those who use that....repellent, crassly monetised thing...because they are quite obviously looking for easy-mode, and in so doing, perpetuating the spread of monetisation --and with that, comes the ever-looming spectre of possible pay-to-win-- through this MMO, and through MMOs in general.

 

Bzzzt, wrong answer.

I bought Treek because (story spoilers below, beware ye who are faint of heart):

 

 

I couldn't stand using Malavai Quinn after he tried to kill my Sith Juggernaut, and I like running around with a healing companion sometimes depending on what I'm doing.

 

 

Getting "easy mode" had absolutely nothing to do with it. It is never wise to automatically assume anything about other peoples' motivations. For one thing, you'll wind up making yourself look like a complete idiot sometimes. And other times, you'll alienate people that might actually have turned out to be friends in the long run.

[arunav]

I feel they could give HK far more value if the "assassinate" ability did not require charges, and instead had a longer cooldown.

 

I disagree completely - the way it has been since HK was introduced is perfect for such a unique ability. Killing 5 enemies to use assassinate is trivial compared to the ability to take out a strong enemy before even starting a pull.

 

Putting assassinate on a cooldown would make it needlessly cumbersome, unless that cooldown were very short. In that case, it would make HK waaaay overpowered, since he'd be able to use assassinate too often.

[Haieshei]

Doc is a Healing Lord! Dedicated to the soul cause of keeping the Sentinel alive, with Freezes and Stuns when heals are on the cooker , he blows Treek into the shade as he Never skips into 'i'm A Tank' mode between heals and although somewhat self absorbed (!) , He does not jibber away in squeeks and sqeels endlessly and throughout your entire life in game!

 

Long Live Original Comp's - leave Treek and Co in the Crafting Cupboard!

[branmakmuffin]

Doc is a Healing Lord! Dedicated to the soul cause of keeping the Sentinel alive, with Freezes and Stuns when heals are on the cooker , he blows Treek into the shade as he Never skips into 'i'm A Tank' mode between heals and although somewhat self absorbed (!) , He does not jibber away in squeeks and sqeels endlessly and throughout your entire life in game!

 

Long Live Original Comp's - leave Treek and Co in the Crafting Cupboard!

If you prefer Doc's personality and commentary to Treek's, that's personal preference. Mechanically, Treek is, overall superior and she does not "skip" into tank mode when you have her in healing mode.

[Chazcon]

While I will not get Treek nor use her as she looks too much like a teddy bear, (personal choice right?), the way I use my companions is as follows:

 

- Tank character (Vanguard) - ranged DPS companion 99% of the time (Jorgan, HK-51), heale in tough spots (Dorne).

- Ranged DPS character - melee tank (Vik), a ranged tank (M1-4X) is problematic because of their harpoon. Sure disable it but then you are not using 100% of their skills.

- Melee DPS character (any Jedi or Sith, a Scoundrel, etc) - healer most of the time (Tharen Cedrax etc), a melee tank in tough spots. Why is this different from a ranged DPS character? Melee characters seem to have better melee defense. On a ranged DPS the last thing you want is for mobs to run in on you. A melee DPS seems to be able to handle this a lot better (because they are designed to fight up close).

- Healer - No idea never played one, I would imagine a Commando healer would want a DPS or tank character in tough fights.

 

So anyway my point (again) is that yes there is a need and a use for more companions than just Treek and HK-51, although when i roll a new toon and show up at level 1 I'm sure people think I'm just a rich pay-to-win a**hole. But ya know I earned than mother and I'm going to enjoy it.

[Nkya]

Treek as tank is the companion to have as sage healer on tough bosses.

We can spam the Noble Sacrifice with almost no penalty because our tank is healing us.

With this endless Force reserve, we focus heal the tank.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Nkya

[branmakmuffin]

So anyway my point (again) is that yes there is a need and a use for more companions than just Treek and HK-51, although when i roll a new toon and show up at level 1 I'm sure people think I'm just a rich pay-to-win a**hole. But ya know I earned than mother and I'm going to enjoy it.

Mechanically, there is no reason to use any companion other than Treek or HK, assuming you have both. Treek in healing mode is as good a healer as any other healing companion and Treek in tank mode can also heal. I would certainly hope that for a default cost of 2100 CC, Treek would indeed be superior to any other companion.

 

If you only have HK, then, sure, you might want the regular healer companion for some characters.

[Jawsers]

This game is easy enough, while leveling or doing dailies, that you don't need to use companions.

[branmakmuffin]

This game is easy enough, while leveling or doing dailies, that you don't need to use companions.

When pay others' sub fees, I am sure they will be happy to play the game the way you want them to.

[Jawsers]

When pay others' sub fees,

 

Not too sure what you are saying there.

 

 

I am sure they will be happy to play the game the way you want them to.

 

Need to, and must are two different things. English much?

[branmakmuffin]

Not too sure what you are saying there.

If English is not your native language, that's fine.

 

Need to, and must are two different things. English much?

"Need to" and "must" are pretty much synonyms. Maybe not exactly, but pretty much. Also, "be required to." "have to," "got to," "gotta." If you're going be pedantic, at least be correct.

[JeremyShelton]

So on my gunslinger I would really like to be able to use Bowdaar. He's awesome looking. he has cool roars and I have him geared out in 186 armor so he should be pretty strong right? Wrong, he's awful. He can't even tank lvl 55 champions on oricon for more than 30 seconds before dying, even with me using scrambling field and diversion.

 

Treek on the other hand is better in every single way. On my guardian with my decked out treek I can solo almost anything. Once Treek gets low I just put her in heal mode and watch as she heals herself up to 100%.

 

To the devs: are there any plans whatsoever to update the original 5 companion archetypes to be relevant to 3.0 content?

PS you forgot to give bowdaar a sword and shield in your fancy new companion weapon and offhand sets.

 

Bowdaar in 186 barely goes below 60% health against Oricon commanders. Not sure what you are doing wrong, but been soloing those commanders since well before 3.0 on my Gunslinger with a variety of the original companions. Never purchased Treek and never use HK-51.

[LyraineAlei]

While I will not get Treek nor use her as she looks too much like a teddy bear, (personal choice right?), the way I use my companions is as follows:

 

- Tank character (Vanguard) - ranged DPS companion 99% of the time (Jorgan, HK-51), heale in tough spots (Dorne).

- Ranged DPS character - melee tank (Vik), a ranged tank (M1-4X) is problematic because of their harpoon. Sure disable it but then you are not using 100% of their skills.

- Melee DPS character (any Jedi or Sith, a Scoundrel, etc) - healer most of the time (Tharen Cedrax etc), a melee tank in tough spots. Why is this different from a ranged DPS character? Melee characters seem to have better melee defense. On a ranged DPS the last thing you want is for mobs to run in on you. A melee DPS seems to be able to handle this a lot better (because they are designed to fight up close).

- Healer - No idea never played one, I would imagine a Commando healer would want a DPS or tank character in tough fights.

 

So anyway my point (again) is that yes there is a need and a use for more companions than just Treek and HK-51, although when i roll a new toon and show up at level 1 I'm sure people think I'm just a rich pay-to-win a**hole. But ya know I earned than mother and I'm going to enjoy it.

 

I play Merc (BH mirror of Commando) and I generally use Torian (Melee DPS) to attack while I heal or drop Death From Above (BH mirror of Mortar Volley). I generally stay away from using Skadge (BH equiv of Vik's Melee Tank, but not nearly as endearing since he has no respect), but same strategy, more DFA or Explosive Dart (BH equiv of Sticky Grenade).

 

My Commando uses Vik or Yuun and the same strategy, now that I think of it. When he isn't using Jorgan (Jorgan most of the time).

[LordArtemis]

I disagree completely - the way it has been since HK was introduced is perfect for such a unique ability. Killing 5 enemies to use assassinate is trivial compared to the ability to take out a strong enemy before even starting a pull.

 

Putting assassinate on a cooldown would make it needlessly cumbersome, unless that cooldown were very short. In that case, it would make HK waaaay overpowered, since he'd be able to use assassinate too often.

 

He would be able to use assassinate on average about the same amount of time it takes killing mobs currently to get the charges.

 

That, IMO, does not make him any more or less overpowered than his is now. It simply removes the annoyance mechanic in place from my perspective.

[midianlord]

You sir, made me lol (literally, I woke my wife). Gaming culture is at a serious shortage of elitism and pointless snobbery, so I'm glad you're around.

 

FYI, the MMO is a constantly changing and evolving beast. They are nothing like they were in the days of Lord British, and in 20 years they will be nothing like they are today. However, they always have been and will always be monetized. Video games are products, people pay money to play them, complaining about how your favorite game developer collects said money is a bit silly. Especially when it goes towards improving and expanding the game.

 

P.S. Treek is annoying, I regret unlocking her =P

 

We aim to please!

 

I happen to think, by the way, that an "elitist" attitude is permissible, when legitimately earned, and if the person isn't being a complete dick about it.

 

(HINT: The ones who are ***** about it? They typically have no real right to it, and they know this, which is part of why they're being ***** about it. Of course, this touches on the fact that you and I, we seem to have very different interpretations of what elitism actually is/should be, but that's a flame-fest for another thread....I'm going to go faceroll my [DAILY]s now. Whilst over-gearing them comically. With Blizz, because he's just so perfectly adorable <3 <3)

[Djiini]

Long story short for those just joining us midway into this surprisingly active thread, Treek is statistically the best healer but is annoying as hell, HK is good without an active drawback but getting him is cumbersome.

[LordArtemis]

...and Treek is probably one of the best tanks. Though agro management is a problem, she can heal herself. That is a big plus.