Original companions are completely useless now that we have Treek and HK-51

[LyraineAlei]

Well, folks can complain about how Treek and the companions use is ruining the game and so on....

 

....just make sure you ignore that little fuzzy loquacious companion they have running around with them.

 

It is NOT Treek. It only looks, sounds and acts like Treek....but it isn't.

 

It's a gremlin. True story.

*checks mains*

 

Torian, Kira, Elara and Jorgan, Akaavi, Qyzen, Quinn and Vette, Andronikos and Khem, Vector... Nope. Not a Wookiee nor an Ewok there, sorry, LordA.

 

And I claim Treek does ruin the game. And then those who rely on her whine about the quests they can't use her in certain class quests. But then again, I sit and use those comps almost exclusively after getting them, so...

 

Haven't even tried using HK yet, even though my main-main just got him. Just tossing Weapon Gifts, Military Gifts and Trophies his way to max affection. Droid gearing sucks.

[Eanelinea]

I've got 22 characters. My main 8 (the ones we could only have when you could only make 8 toons) use their love interest companions. The other 14 use whoever.

 

I have found out a few things about companions, the original ones. One, you must gear them as constantly as you gear yourself. If you don't, it's going to be a nightmare. Two, you must have a high presence. You can get this by having a level 50 human, getting datacrons, and finishing every single companion story there is (the original 40, not including Treek and HK). Three, you have the have been using them since the second you got them. You can't wait until you actually 'need' them or you won't know how they function in combat.

 

My smuggler is a sharpshooting gunslinger. She uses Corso. Tank companions have always been a tad squishy, but I've got him in 172s, full augmented for a tank, and I upgrade him as well as I can. Sometimes he'll die, but most times if my dps is fast and hard enough he survives and I just heal us both. No real issues. Been using him since I got him.

 

My sith warrior is a Vengence Jugg. She uses Quinn. She's been using him since Balmorra. At the beginning we were both squishy (this was pre 2.0) and we'd both die, but now? At 60? OMG. Quinn does more DPS damage in heal spec then he heals and he's just uber sauce. No issues.

 

Torian and my pyro powertech. Used him since Taris, no issues. Vector and my marksman sniper? Used since Alderaan. No issues. Jedi Knight vigilance guardian uses Doc since Balmorra, no issues. Shadow balance dps with Tharan, no issues. Vanguard pyro used Dorne while leveling and now uses Jorgan after presence increased enough. No issues. Sith Inq Madness Sin used Talos for leveling and now uses Andronikos, no issues.

 

So, the original companions can be OP just as well. You just have to see how THEY perform and change YOUR play style to match theirs. You have a brain, they have an AI. They can only do what they're programmed to do, nothing more.

[xBenouze]

(...). Droid gearing sucks.

 

Correction droid gearing suckED, cybertech can now craft some gear that is better than the 198 (with coms not tokens) one. My hk, with all this purple gear, oriconian implants/ear, without relics (ofc) and like 2 or 3 augments is sitting at 1900 tech bonus damage (with good surge, crit, accuracy) ! assasinate crit at 190/200K

[branmakmuffin]

Taking Treek along is like including Orlandu in your team in Final Fantasy Tactics. Brain dead easy. As punishment treek will ramble on with the most irritating jibber jabber imaginable to punish you for your sloppy badness relying on a crutch.

And I thought the point of playing a game was to have fun. Turns out the real reason is to show how bad a** you are (in a computer game).

 

[Sindariel]

Every classes melee DPS companion in bleed stance (all abilities have a chance to inflict a bleed effect) are the top DPSing companions in the game, even over HK-51.

 

On my assassin I geared up every companion with equivalent mods from the vendor and crafted implants/earpieces. I parsed them against the dummies with parsec. Any non-DPS abilities were turned off (such as CCs, heals, taunts).

 

Ashara (pure melee DPS) in bleed stance topped the chart with 1796 DPS. Ashara in armor penetration stance is 1491 DPS.

 

Second place was tied between Revel (pure ranged DPS) and HK-51. Revel in single-target stance put out 1456 DPS, while HK put out a very close 1404 DPS.

 

At the bottom of the chart were Talos (ranged healer/DPS) at 945 DPS, and Treek with 954 DPS in heal stance and 1034 DPS in tank stance.

 

What was clear is that any companion with a dual role ended up suffering in DPS because of the ability slots wasted on the other role. This was especially true with Talos, since only two of his abilities were for damage, the rest were for heals.

 

TL;DR: Pure melee DPS companion in bleed stance has better DPS than any other companion

 

More than a year ago, i've parsed companions too, and came to the same conclusion as you.

 

Melee comps in bleed stance top the charts. They have great ST-DPS and decent AoE. With ranged comps, it's the other way around. Great AoE and decent ST-DPS.

I've also parsed tanking companions and in DPS stance and gear and they're roughly on the same level as ranged comps in ST damage.

 

HK-51 on the other hand... was always at the bottom. His ST-DPS is the same as with ranged comps, but he has zero AoE, zero defensive abilities and half of his abilities are mostly useless.

I'm just glad, that those new craftable droid parts are so powerful and give him a slight boost over other companions, for the time being.

 

PS:

Did you disable the 3s cast ability on your ranged companions? That one is usually a DPS loss and only good as an opener.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Sindariel

[LordArtemis]

*checks mains*

 

Torian, Kira, Elara and Jorgan, Akaavi, Qyzen, Quinn and Vette, Andronikos and Khem, Vector... Nope. Not a Wookiee nor an Ewok there, sorry, LordA.

 

And I claim Treek does ruin the game. And then those who rely on her whine about the quests they can't use her in certain class quests. But then again, I sit and use those comps almost exclusively after getting them, so...

 

Haven't even tried using HK yet, even though my main-main just got him. Just tossing Weapon Gifts, Military Gifts and Trophies his way to max affection. Droid gearing sucks.

 

That was just meant as a joke LyrainAlei.

[LyraineAlei]

Correction droid gearing suckED, cybertech can now craft some gear that is better than the 198 (with coms not tokens) one. My hk, with all this purple gear, oriconian implants/ear, without relics (ofc) and like 2 or 3 augments is sitting at 1900 tech bonus damage (with good surge, crit, accuracy) ! assasinate crit at 190/200K

I forgot that part there. I just remember saying "Nope" to running with T7 very often with my Guardian, and he had Cybertech. Course, that was leveling time. Guess I need to finish his Cybertech and mail the gear to my main and watch the mobs melt with HK.

 

That was just meant as a joke LyrainAlei.

I know, I was missing the point intentionally. But my bad humor is... pretty bad at being humorous.

[LordArtemis]

I know, I was missing the point intentionally. But my bad humor is... pretty bad at being humorous.

 

No, the more likely explanation is that I am obtuse. True story.

[LyraineAlei]

No, the more likely explanation is that I am obtuse. True story.

 

Actually, I had come back from work with 1-3rd graders all going home for the holidays, and in my tired, surprisingly hungry, so-ready-for-the-weekend mindset, forgot how to be funny.

 

I managed to forget how to put half my dinner together in that mindset, so more likely, my bad humor and bad brain to hand signals.

 

On topic: Main Companions are great, once you get used to them and how they fight. Ex. Torian jetpacks into the middle of the fight (when I initiate), gathering all the mobs up for my merc to drop her missiles and throw a dart to before sitting back and just healing him. There's Bodyguard Merc+Torian.

 

I swear he hates when she does that, but it works for how the Merc's combat works.

 

Another example. Kira+Guardian Tank: battle starts with me throwing my lightsaber, do the Force-Jump-to-Ally-and-lower-Ally-Threat, Force Sweep, Guardian Slash, and then pick off the enemies, maybe toss anything Silver or Gold with Force Throw, and if the other mobs are down enough, take advantage of Force Leap being auto-cooled down and use Force Leap and repeat. *I do throw Shadow Tank gear on Kira because even after all this, she does still pull mobs off of me and I need her to last until I can pull them off again.

 

Jorgan+Vanguard Tank: I throw Sticky Grenade, Charge and generate a lot of threat, Pulse through most of the mob while Jorgan picks the rest off what is left.

 

Elara+Same Vanguard: mostly the same, though I have to pull an area taunt more often, while she heals me

 

Jorgan+Commando Healer: Sticky, Mortar Valley, shoot while they are still running up to me. Pulse when I need to. (Haven't played my Commandos since before 3.0, so this may have to change)

 

Khem/Qyzen+Healer Sorc/Sage: As mirrors, I do the same with both. Have Qyzen/Khem attack after bubbling, heal, Forcequake/Force Storm from time to time, heal. Throw DoTs when needed (also haven't played since pre-3.0 very much, so still working through the changes).

 

So, OP, these guys still work very, very well.

[well]

And I thought the point of playing a game was to have fun. Turns out the real reason is to show how bad a** you are (in a computer game).

 

 

Blasphemy! People have been shipped to Hutta for less! Having fun in a game ..the very idea of such..pfft:eek:

[ThirdDementor]

Every classes melee DPS companion in bleed stance (all abilities have a chance to inflict a bleed effect) are the top DPSing companions in the game, even over HK-51.

 

[snip]

 

Ashara (pure melee DPS) in bleed stance topped the chart with 1796 DPS. Ashara in armor penetration stance is 1491 DPS.

 

Second place was tied between Revel (pure ranged DPS) and HK-51. Revel in single-target stance put out 1456 DPS, while HK put out a very close 1404 DPS.

 

I've been wondering about this. Is it possible that HK can now out DPS the other companions, due to his "186" droid parts actually being a lot stronger than 186?

 

---

 

 

Anyway, I've used Treek for a long time, when it felt important to me to solo heroics, be overleveled, and utterly dominate the content on sheer principle.

 

Once that was done, though, I figured there was nothing left to prove, and it was time to retire her, as I will only do casual PvE while leveling, which regular companions are more than good enough for.

 

It's true that Vette/Jaesa/Temple/Torian/Andronikos/Nadia/Kira/Scourge/Forex/Guss don't finish every fight with both me and them at full HP and ready for the next one.

 

But they make me smile.

Edited December 21, 2014 by ThirdDementor

[Glower]

I have problems with HKs gear/armorings conflicts. A lot of problems!

And i hate Treeks chatting.

 

And that unlocking cost...

Edited December 21, 2014 by Glower

[Halinalle]

Another example. Kira+Guardian Tank: battle starts with me throwing my lightsaber, do the Force-Jump-to-Ally-and-lower-Ally-Threat, Force Sweep, Guardian Slash, and then pick off the enemies, maybe toss anything Silver or Gold with Force Throw, and if the other mobs are down enough, take advantage of Force Leap being auto-cooled down and use Force Leap and repeat. *I do throw Shadow Tank gear on Kira because even after all this, she does still pull mobs off of me and I need her to last until I can pull them off again.

 

Saber Throw (enemy #1, preferably not the highest difficulty) -> Force Leap (enemy #2, preferably highest difficulty) -> Warding Strike -> Guardian Slash -> if lvl41+ Hilt Bash, else move to next step -> Force Sweep -> Blade Storm -> Challenging Call

 

Should give you big enough head start before Kira gets her AoEs going.

[gibmachine]

Yeah, no. Show me your HK, I'll whip out my Jaesa and I can guarantee you she will destroy him. Pus she's even more of a psycho and easier to gear up.

[branmakmuffin]

Blasphemy! People have been shipped to Hutta for less! Having fun in a game ..the very idea of such..pfft:eek:

Yes, I try to avoid it myself.

[Tsillah]

Treek is the best solution for Malavai Quinn so I use her for my sith warriors.

 

I only got HK-51 on one character and never use him.

 

All in all most of my characters use a companion that is not treek or HK-51.

 

You'll see that the more presence bonus you build up, the less it really matters which companion you use cause you get a massive boost for them and all of em are op for leveling content.

[Drew_Braxton]

Didn't care for treek. HK-51 ftw!

[Allronix]

I still use my original comps most of the time. However, I did use Treek for a good chunk of Rishi (if you want to look like a bunch of psychos, Treek is psycho enough to secure the rep).

 

HK-51? Droid armor is expensive and annoying to maintain, so he's on Treasure hunting most of the time.

 

I honestly prefer Tharan and Nadia, but I'm still working on gearing them up. Tharan's attacks tend not to break crowd controls, his "Deploy Holiday" is an effective stun, and his snark is awesome. Nadia is terrifying if you build her like a DPS Shadow, but her attacks are anything but subtle.

[LyraineAlei]

Saber Throw (enemy #1, preferably not the highest difficulty) -> Force Leap (enemy #2, preferably highest difficulty) -> Warding Strike -> Guardian Slash -> if lvl41+ Hilt Bash, else move to next step -> Force Sweep -> Blade Storm -> Challenging Call

 

Should give you big enough head start before Kira gets her AoEs going.

 

That's what I do if Kira didn't jump into battle when I was throwing the blade. And I was just running out a generic fight.

[Rafaman]

That's what I do if Kira didn't jump into battle when I was throwing the blade. And I was just running out a generic fight.

 

I got Kira geared up as a result of leveling my Shadow to 60 and... I must say, she is awesome sauce with her dps.

[Khevar]

I got Kira geared up as a result of leveling my Shadow to 60 and... I must say, she is awesome sauce with her dps.

Yeah, I did the same thing with Nadia on my Sage. Melee DoT companion dps is super groovy.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Khevar

[PavSalco]

I agree that Treek scares bantha out of all default healers and she can tank when it's necessary. On the other hand, HK is kinda underwhelming and some people overrate him just like the author of this thread.

 

IMO for questing and doing dailies the order of DPS companions looks like this:

1. Melee DPS in Bleed Stance

2. Ranged DPS in AOE Stance

3. HK

4. Tank in DPS Stance & DPS Gear

 

in fact, I personally found HK to be the most useless companion. his one awesome abilities, iMO requires too much of a build up and then wait for it to go off.

I don't mind the build-up because without it the ability would be too much abused. However, its activation time is totally unnecessary . If I'm not mistaken he doesn't use 1 KO ability in battle. It always needs to be activated manually by the player before engaging a fight, so what's the reason behind the activation time? Pointless.

Edited December 21, 2014 by PavSalco

[danielearley]

So on my gunslinger I would really like to be able to use Bowdaar. He's awesome looking. he has cool roars and I have him geared out in 186 armor so he should be pretty strong right? Wrong, he's awful. He can't even tank lvl 55 champions on oricon for more than 30 seconds before dying, even with me using scrambling field and diversion.

 

Treek on the other hand is better in every single way. On my guardian with my decked out treek I can solo almost anything. Once Treek gets low I just put her in heal mode and watch as she heals herself up to 100%.

 

To the devs: are there any plans whatsoever to update the original 5 companion archetypes to be relevant to 3.0 content?

PS you forgot to give bowdaar a sword and shield in your fancy new companion weapon and offhand sets.

 

Weird I only use Guss or Bowdar on my gunslinger. Guss is a much better healer and I like Bowdar.

I don't have any issue using either of them, not sure why you do?

Please elaborate as to what issue you are facing where your tank needs healing before you have killed everything on the map with your gunslinger. I often send Bowdar to round up more for me to kill.

[danielearley]

I still use my original comps most of the time. However, I did use Treek for a good chunk of Rishi (if you want to look like a bunch of psychos, Treek is psycho enough to secure the rep).

 

HK-51? Droid armor is expensive and annoying to maintain, so he's on Treasure hunting most of the time.

 

I honestly prefer Tharan and Nadia, but I'm still working on gearing them up. Tharan's attacks tend not to break crowd controls, his "Deploy Holiday" is an effective stun, and his snark is awesome. Nadia is terrifying if you build her like a DPS Shadow, but her attacks are anything but subtle.

 

Nadia ftw, in full 186 gear she is devastating. Two foolish sith found that out on Rishi, I killed one and Nadia the other, yes that's right a companion that can kill a player with no input other than kill him. (and may be a bubble)

[midianlord]

Pay-to-win? I don't think that means what you think it does.

To my knowledge Treek can't get into Warzones or Operations, and there certainly wasn't any companion that could heal and tank.

 

Beyond that, I find it slightly disingenuous that there are players out there slighting the ability of those players that choose to run with a heal companion or perish the thought Treek. When they themselves are probably running the end game dailies on a character with near Best-in-slot mods and full augments.

 

That's why I said "in principle:"

 

I know perfectly well that she(/he/it? Which is it, I can never remember.) is not actually pay-to-win, but all the bads perceive it as being pay for...well, pay for easy mode, at least.

 

Do I need to explain why this is bad?

 

Companions can work with you in open-world on PvP server, by the way. But there, like in so many other situations, the best combo --for my playstyle/preference, at least-- is geared ranged damager + geared melée DPS companion. The highest companion DPS, apparently, is coming from melée in "bleeder" stance.

 

Why are you slighting people running [DAILY]s in endgame gear? Creds are needed to deal with wipes --they can get very expensive at that level-- buy/keep up with consumables, and all the usual things that creds are needed for.

 

Oh, and as for the gear itself:

 

We earned that ****, through game-play at an advanced level, not by waving a *********** credit card around, we can bloody well use it if we feel like, especially if it makes [DAILY]s --a chore, not a challenge, or fun-- go faster, so we can then have more time to do the actual fun stuff.