My opinion on the lvl 60 hardmode falshpoints..after the Shadow of Revan expansion.

[xxHellsmokexx]

Just jumped in a flashpoint using the group finder and got raped. I have all 186 gear and didn't stand a chance in the same flashpoints I used to enjoy doing. Good job on completely ruining end game for me. The rewards are not worth it either and why are there so few flashpoints to choose from now? I don't get it.

 

I really see myself losing interest very quickly with this game because hard mode is too hard now and not worth the reward. Since I'm not the guild type of guy and will never get my hands on any better gear without one I guess it's game over for me as I can't see much reason to continue playing.

 

My sub runs out in two months and if things don't get balanced by then I'm going to unsub and move on. There are a few other issues I have with this update but I'm not going to get into them here..this one was just the straw that is going to break the camel's back.

 

Yes..I'm pissed.

 

Edit: The hard mode flashpoint I'm talking about was Tython btw.

Edited December 18, 2014 by xxHellsmokexx

[Excise]

Can't comment on the low # of flashpoints but that will of course get better with time if 2.0 is any indication.

 

Regarding difficulty, though, a few thoughts:

- the tactical FP's grant elites so you and your teammates can be rolling in 192's soon enough.

- PuGing is always a gamble. Sometimes you'll get great PuGs and sometimes not. Makes a huge difference.

- You will find a ton of tricks, tips, and strategies here on the forums. Ask around and ye shall receive help. What specifically is giving you hassle? Bosses? Trash? What role are you? Is your group CC'ing? Need more details!

[Dark_Mithrandir]

Just jumped in a flashpoint using the group finder and got raped. I have all 186 gear and didn't stand a chance in the same flashpoints I used to enjoy doing. Good job on completely ruining end game for me. The rewards are not worth it either and why are there so few flashpoints to choose from now? I don't get it.

 

I really see myself losing interest very quickly with this game because hard mode is too hard now and not worth the reward. Since I'm not the guild type of guy and will never get my hands on any better gear without one I guess it's game over for me as I can't see much reason to continue playing.

 

My sub runs out in two months and if things don't get balanced by then I'm going to unsub and move on. There are a few other issues I have with this update but I'm not going to get into them here..this one was just the straw that is going to break the camel's back.

 

Yes..I'm pissed.

 

Edit: The hard mode flashpoint I'm talking about was Tython btw.

 

IMO You can:

 

- Try to improve!

- Wait for a nerf and do other easier stuff (dont worry at some point everything gonna be nerfed)

- Quit the game because is too hard for you

[dbears]

Agree with @excise. Give us some details on the issue(s) you're having and maybe the community can help. As someone who's cleared all four multiple times filling all three roles, I'm willing to lend a hand.

[bdatt]

Edit: The hard mode flashpoint I'm talking about was Tython btw.

 

If republic side, the first boss is currently bugged. See discussion here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=783910 if that's the problem you're having.

Edited December 18, 2014 by bdatt

[xxHellsmokexx]

Thanks for the tips and sorry about the rage post.

 

I was playing a Jedi Counselor fit and skilled dps/ Telekinetics. It was at the first boss when the ads spawn and start passing out 22k each hit..aoe everywhere and we didn't have a chance. We died like 5 times and gave up.

 

I used to like doing this fp as it was one of the easier ones and that was with 168 gear lol. Now I have 186 augmented and all.

 

Looking at the rewards you get for beating that fp I can assure you I will not be doing that again. Not to mention most of the flashpoints are no longer in the group finder anymore. So as it seems we are stuck with two tactical flashpoints to do that give 10 elite coins per day lol. No sign of any ultimate coins anymore unless you do ops even though they were already pretty hard and slow to come by before.

 

I'm not anti-mmo the truth is my computer can't handle doing 16m ops. Add the wonderful lag we got with this expansion to the equation and it is a nightmare.

 

Right now I'm just not going to do any more flashpoints and see how long it takes me to lose interest for lack of things to do. It normally is not my style to go rage on forums or quit with out putting up a fight but this is just ridiculous. I just wanted to leave my opinion in case any of the devs are looking for feedback.

 

I'm going to ride it out until my sub runs out and see if they fix things by then. If not I will take Dark_Mithrandir's advice and move on. Not because the game is too hard for me but because in my opinion bad decisions were made as far as balance goes and we now have less flashpoints to choose from at lvl 60 than we did before at lvl 55.

 

Seems all effort is being pushed into ops and that is not my thing. Everyone else get's a free ride to 186 gear more or less and the rest is too hard or bugged. I had no probems before and had worse gear on top of that. I have been playing on and off since day one.

 

But thanks again for the kind help.

Edited December 18, 2014 by xxHellsmokexx

[ancomh]

They are called hardmode for a reason you know. No, they are not that hard. They are not harder than the level 55 HM flashpoints or the 50 HM flashpoints where when they came out and everyone was in level appropriate gear.

 

186 gear is the entry level gear for this expansion, you will see that they will be much easier to pug when people starts to get some of the new 192/198 gear.

Edited December 18, 2014 by ancomh

[Excise]

I was playing a Jedi Counselor fit and skilled dps/ Telekinetics. It was at the first boss when the ads spawn and start passing out 22k each hit..aoe everywhere and we didn't have a chance. We died like 5 times and gave up.

 

First boss of which FP? If it involves tough adds then I'm guessing Tython. That dude is probably the toughest non-bonus boss out there (Korriban droid or Manaan final boss maaay be harder).

 

Assuming it is the Tython dude then his mechanic is this:

- When he summons his four adds, each player must run to one of the four corners to place the orbital strike telegraph. The orbital strike will hit the add, knock out its shields, and knock out a lot of the future orbital strikes. Then each add can be killed one by one.

- He summons these adds three times during the fight so the above has to be done repeatedly.

- I have heard that this fight may be bugged Pub side where the shield never gets removed from the adds on the right. There's awkward workarounds but if that bug is happening 100% of the time then there isn't too much that can be done.

 

Remember, though, dying doesn't really cost you anything other than some credits for repairs. That said, if you really don't want to retry then moving onto another game might be your best bet.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I like the term "falshpoint" very much, because "falsch" (pronounced as "falsh" with an "a" like in "hardship") means in German language "wrong".

[xxHellsmokexx]

A little update: Tried the HM on Manaan and it is just as retarded. I managed to sneak my way through a few and get some 192 gear and still waaay too hard. Do you people even test this crap or is it made just for the elite? Not only do we have to work through all the bugs and lag but then we get to fight the balance which is way off as well. Next expansion you guys offer us I will not be preordering. I will wait and read up on it first to see if it is even playable.

 

I waited almost two hours to get in the flashpoint and it took an hour of of torture for us to quit. All for 16 pathetic coins that I didn't get after all. Wonderful. Yes I had a good group and all were on top of their jobs. The time limit kept resetting at the end until we got sick of playing this crap.

 

Hilarious..really. I regret paying for this expansion..I really do. Will be letting my sub run out and playing a bit of GTA5 until you guys learn how to test what you put out. See you in a few months.

Edited December 27, 2014 by xxHellsmokexx

[xxHellsmokexx]

While I am at it let me mention a few more things that really suck about this expansion.

 

1. You are selling mounts for real cash that still have the cape hanging through them although you managed to fix it in the preview looking at the mount. I'm guessing you thought that would be enough to fool people.

 

2. The end fight against Revan is annoying as you spend most of the fight on your back stunned watching the others fight. Interupt one he does another pretty much right away.

 

3. You still don't give any real rewards for beating the game but our companions get a nice 192 weapon and off hand weapon lol thx.

 

4. People who pay monthly don't like to wait a month for the lag to be fixed. That's a month worth money wasted taking all the other issues into account.

 

5. People who payed extra to get this expansion have less flashpoints and ops to do than the others who didn't buy it.

 

6. Nothing feels like it was worth the effort unless you do ops but that isn't new..it has always been that way.

 

You make the game pay to win but are too greedy to give rewards for making a real effort or grinding. The dailys are hardly worth the time as I can go kill a few things that drop more cash than I can get in any daily.

 

Bottom line I'm really pissed because I really tried to like this game for the fact that it is StarWars but you make it harder and harder to stick with it. But as long as the cartel market works fine everything is a-okay right?

 

I have been here from day one and I just think it is a shame what is being done to this game but I'm going to stop ranting now. The game is pissing me off and I don't usually go on forums and rant as you can see this is my first post since the game came out. There are too many other games to play to let myself get this mad at something I pay for monthly and then pay for expansions that are not finished on top of that.

 

Worry a little less about the cartel market and a bit more about the state of the game because once people get too pissed off with it you will lose the last handful of loyal fans as well.

[midianlord]

Someone beat me to it, but it bears repeating.

 

This is how it went when the then-new level 55 [HARD] Flashpoints were introduced in 2.0, if you'll recall:

 

We weren't all yet over-gearing them to, frankly, almost absurd levels, nor yet could we follow their mechanics in our sleep. (Braxx' pet dog-beast-creature-things, hits from those little *********** hurt --a lot-- at one time.)

 

These new FPs are all explicitly mechanics-checks, with an only nominal gear-check (ilvl 186 plus maybe a few Augments is just fine for them, and the recommended is actually ilvl 178).

 

Proof: No enrage timers (yet) except for the Manaan end-boss, and that's just a no-kill fight reset.

 

The content itself is fine --bugs notwithstanding; Yeah, that **** pisses me off too. IMO, it is absolutely inexcusable in a AAA-rated MMO in 2015.. Actually it's more than fine, the real problem is, that we haven't haven't had content like this, along with the commensurate "learning curve reset" in far, far too long:

 

We've gotten too used to things being just a bit too easy, for much too long, and are now getting a reality-check. That is a fundamental community-problem, not a content-problem. That the community seems, for the most part, unwilling to step up and meet the challenge is a far bigger problem by the way, but the specifics of that are far beyond the scope of this thread (I could explain, but the post would be really freaking long, even for me )

 

This game is not pay-to-win. But another --major-- "community-problem" is that there is a (wrongly-)perceived "pay-for-easy-mode," most obviously in the form of that disgustingly crass Teddy-bear thing companion.

 

But is even that the real problem? No.

 

The real problem with that is that people just won't stop buying all this shoddy, cheap, tasteless garbage, even as they whinge on the forums about how "unfair!!" "overprioced" "OMG P2W TO STR0NK!!!" it all is.

 

No-one forces them to do this, nor yet are any of these things even remotely necessary for in-game progression/success (that would indeed be pure pay-to-win).

 

That's the real problem here:

 

Good (though again, needs fixing, and updated freaking loot-tables!) content, community fundamentally unworthy of it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by midianlord

[nightsproull]

For me, it's just kind of boring.

 

I'm a good tank, and a fairly decent healer, and I hate the 60 HM fps. Not because they're challenging, which they're not, but because each of them except Rakata has some roadblock boss that is way overtuned. And the bosses drop basic comms. *I wish I had three hands so I could triple facepalm that decision*

 

Rakata= 16 free elite comms, plus however many you get from the last boss. First two bosses in Manaan are easy, first and last boss of Korriban are easy, 2nd and 3rd boss of Tython are easy. If you guys are really relishing the challenge of content that is quite easy except for three specific bosses...then I'm not sure that you know what a challenge really is. Additionally, 192 gear from comms, with no set bonuses, are not end-game gear, and thus shouldn't require extreme perseverance to obtain.

 

Either make the entirety of the 4 level 60 HM fps as difficult as the three problem bosses, or tone down those three problem bosses. I'm only about 99% sure they're going to take the latter option, because even the elites would stop doing 60 HM fp if they couldn't bulldoze through them.

[TACeMossie]

A little update: Tried the HM on Manaan and it is just as retarded. I managed to sneak my way through a few and get some 192 gear and still waaay too hard. Do you people even test this crap or is it made just for the elite? Not only do we have to work through all the bugs and lag but then we get to fight the balance which is way off as well. Next expansion you guys offer us I will not be preordering. I will wait and read up on it first to see if it is even playable.

 

I waited almost two hours to get in the flashpoint and it took an hour of of torture for us to quit. All for 16 pathetic coins that I didn't get after all. Wonderful. Yes I had a good group and all were on top of their jobs. The time limit kept resetting at the end until we got sick of playing this crap.

 

Hilarious..really. I regret paying for this expansion..I really do. Will be letting my sub run out and playing a bit of GTA5 until you guys learn how to test what you put out. See you in a few months.

 

 

If you were having issues, you weren't in a good group.

I was in a group that succeeded there where:

 

The tank (me) hadn't tanked in 8 months, and was using his old tank set (mix of 180 ultimate comms gear and some set bonus pieces that were worse than that)

 

The good DPS (sentinel) had 94% accuracy as he was coming from playing Combat, and over 77% surge rating. At least he went watchman and knew what he was doing.

 

The really, really, really bad DPS (Shadow) was empty in half his gear slots, and his attack rotation was Force Wave -> Telekinetic Throw -> Whirling Blow while waiting for other moves to come off cooldown

 

And the healer was decent enough to stick with us despite having to deal with the Shadow (who caused multiple wipes due to knocking groups into more groups)

 

We still killed the last boss before enrage, despite the fact it took 16 pulls. Of course, the first few wipes were because the healer was getting mowed down by adds while I was removed from the aggro table, but because we weren't a bad group, we figured out how to deal with it.

 

Now if we could kill it with a good DPS, a DPS so bad that despite the good DPS player I'd say we were running with 0.8 DPS characters, and an undergeared tank, what does that have to say about your group?

Edited December 27, 2014 by TACeMossie

[nightsproull]

If you were having issues, you weren't in a good group.

I was in a group that succeeded there where:

 

The tank (me) hadn't tanked in 8 months, and was using his old tank set (mix of 180 ultimate comms gear and some set bonus pieces that were worse than that)

 

The good DPS (sentinel) had 94% accuracy as he was coming from playing Combat, and over 77% surge rating. At least he went watchman and knew what he was doing.

 

The really, really, really bad DPS (Shadow) was empty in half his gear slots, and his attack rotation was Force Wave -> Telekinetic Throw -> Whirling Blow while waiting for other moves to come off cooldown

 

And the healer was decent enough to stick with us despite having to deal with the Shadow (who caused multiple wipes due to knocking groups into more groups)

 

We still killed the last boss before enrage, despite the fact it took 16 pulls. Of course, the first few wipes were because the healer was getting mowed down by adds while I was removed from the aggro table, but because we weren't a bad group, we figured out how to deal with it.

 

1- You talk about the OP needing a good group, and then describe how you had a terrible group. 16 tries is not even remotely reasonable to expect from random people in the GF.

 

I've done these flashpoints with good groups, and they're not hard, except for a couple of pain bosses. Either all of the bosses need to be this challenging, or none of them do, because the rewards currently aren't worth the effort.

[TACeMossie]

1- You talk about the OP needing a good group, and then describe how you had a terrible group. 16 tries is not even remotely reasonable to expect from random people in the GF.

 

I've done these flashpoints with good groups, and they're not hard, except for a couple of pain bosses. Either all of the bosses need to be this challenging, or none of them do, because the rewards currently aren't worth the effort.

 

The fact is the OP claimed he had a good group, yet I gave an example of a terrible one finishing it before the enrage timer. I highly suspect OP is an individual as skilled as the shadow in my terrible group, and thats why he's always having these issues. Hell, even with alts I have no idea how to play them, I find myself without any real issues in the new flashpoints.

[Brutal]

healed new flashpoints in my bonused 180 with 28 augments done jost fine 2 wipes hire and there due to me slaging on mechanicks (done them first timeand me and my m8 tanky used GF for the 2 dps )

 

the problem is pepole buy the horible com gear stack on endurance and would like to face roll it bring back pre nerf Lost Island this was hard fp the new ones are easy

Edited December 27, 2014 by Brutal

[Taiketo]

BARRING Tython, because it's super bugged on the first fight on pub side AND overtuned, all of the new HMs are super easy. Like, "let's make LI look hard again" kind of easy. Nearly every fight can be boiled down to "don't stand in red circles..."

 

What issues are you having? If you're in full 186 you should be breezing through these like a hot knife through butter... Except for buggy Tython.

 

The rewards DO suck though. I feel that that's probably unintended for them to give strictly worse rewards than 55 HMs, though. Also the bonus bosses only drop 2 basic comms?!

[wainot-keel]

Well, everybody keeps saying these 60 hms are the same (in terms of difficulty) as the 55hm ones when they came out.

 

I played RotHC early access and those were very puggable. Of course they were tough at that time and there were wipes (specially on some bonus bosses mind you), also ragequits. But it wasn't this bad. I also remember people doing those in a mix of Campaign and Columi gear, which was below the requirement.

 

But these new ones ? I just gave up on pugging them altogether. I will do them only with my guildies. And while they are beatable with a pug, it's just mostly a very long painful process with little reward, a true exercise in frustration

[bgstranger]

i can't explain why exactly, but i lost my interest as well after expansion.

Maybe the less GF content (it will be fix, i know), or maybe the new gear system - now every new 60 toon starts wit 186 gear without any challange. Before that(when daily GF reward for 55 hm was 10 elits), a new 55 has to earn his basics for 162, then elits by playing hm fps and doing ops for 180 ultims. And the difference between 162 and 180 means a lot. Can't say the same for 186 to 198 now.

The 2 new tacticals are great, but they are way too easy and a good player can solo them.

Now everyone can craft 186, before that, the max schematics that vendor sell was 156 and you have to work hard to get schematics above that.

 

I don't know... but i start the game less and less.

 

P.S and yes, i know that nobody cares about my negative opinion

[FlyinSpaghetti]

I have no problem with the flashpoints being a challenge, what I do have a problem with is the rewards/loot.

 

They're hardly worth the effort for one roll on a random lettered mod massassi piece and basic comms. Even the elite comm reward isn't worth the time.

 

We need better loot (i.e. make a massassi mk2 set with optimized mods in that only drop in FP and op's) and better rewards (elite and ultimate comms).

[TACeMossie]

i can't explain why exactly, but i lost my interest as well after expansion.

Maybe the less GF content (it will be fix, i know), or maybe the new gear system - now every new 60 toon starts wit 186 gear without any challange. Before that(when daily GF reward for 55 hm was 10 elits), a new 55 has to earn his basics for 162, then elits by playing hm fps and doing ops for 180 ultims. And the difference between 162 and 180 means a lot. Can't say the same for 186 to 198 now.

The 2 new tacticals are great, but they are way too easy and a good player can solo them.

Now everyone can craft 186, before that, the max schematics that vendor sell was 156 and you have to work hard to get schematics above that.

 

I don't know... but i start the game less and less.

 

P.S and yes, i know that nobody cares about my negative opinion

 

The fact is when 2.0 came out, just before that 150s were the highest gear level, basics bought 156s, elites 162s and ultimates 168s. It wasn't till 2.4 came out that 156s stopped existing, 162s became basics, 168s became elites and 180s became ultimates. Which is why there isn't such a big difference between basics + ultimates right now.

 

On top of that, if you are able to get through the new ops on even SM without using the level 60 gear (186s + possible 186 augments), then thats a skilled player, not an average one. The Hard Mode versions have either been exploited to hell (Ravagers), or only been killed by 2 teams who had to Bounty Hunter stack in order to kill it (Revan).

 

Oh and ultimate comms gear has always been terrible compared to crafted stuff, just no one realised until very, very, very recently (because Bioware finally swapped the mods to A mods as well)

[xxHellsmokexx]

If you were having issues, you weren't in a good group.

I was in a group that succeeded there where:

 

The tank (me) hadn't tanked in 8 months, and was using his old tank set (mix of 180 ultimate comms gear and some set bonus pieces that were worse than that)

 

The good DPS (sentinel) had 94% accuracy as he was coming from playing Combat, and over 77% surge rating. At least he went watchman and knew what he was doing.

 

The really, really, really bad DPS (Shadow) was empty in half his gear slots, and his attack rotation was Force Wave -> Telekinetic Throw -> Whirling Blow while waiting for other moves to come off cooldown

 

And the healer was decent enough to stick with us despite having to deal with the Shadow (who caused multiple wipes due to knocking groups into more groups)

 

We still killed the last boss before enrage, despite the fact it took 16 pulls. Of course, the first few wipes were because the healer was getting mowed down by adds while I was removed from the aggro table, but because we weren't a bad group, we figured out how to deal with it.

 

Now if we could kill it with a good DPS, a DPS so bad that despite the good DPS player I'd say we were running with 0.8 DPS characters, and an undergeared tank, what does that have to say about your group?

 

What does that say about my group? It tells me that you are a liar or a troll. There is no way that you would beat that Manaan flashpoint with a "half empty shadow" because you simply wouldn't have the dps to finish the final boss in time. Much less with 180 gear.

 

After we got killed a few times the tank quit. We waited for a new tank and he was much better. As we waited I inspected everyone and what gear they had on. All of us were at least 186 and had 3-4 192 items and some even had a 198 bit or two. We didn't have enough dps to kill the guy at the end and we did it like 5 times. We lead the guys that spawned under the fire and didn't pay much attention to them in order to get enough dps on the boss.

 

With the team you described you would have got slaughtered no matter how good you are so don't sit there and tell me that you beat any HM with that team. If that was the case people with way better gear wouldn't be complaining. I had no issues with HM before the update and I never had top gear then either.

 

At the end of the day it took almost 2 hours to get into the fp just to suffer for another hour and walk out with nothing. If the prize was worth such a fight then okay but 16 crappy coins? Not to mention the gear that drops in there is 184!!! Are you kidding me? 184 gear? Who the hell needs 184 gear after being given 186 for free pretty much at lvl 60? Not worth my time..simple as that and if I can't do flashpoints why gear up as I can one shot most groups in any daily or other quest in the game. Anything over 186 is overkill for anything in this game other than flashpoints and ops.

 

It is a complete joke.

 

As far as pay to win goes like someone else mentioned..yes it is pay to win. You can buy cartel packs and sell the stuff for millions to buy mods from the market. Buying mods from the market with real cash = pay to win. 198 isn't on the market yet but it will be soon I'm sure. That is EA games at work as they love their microtransactions but rarely do I see a game ruined like this one. The greed is amazing and never ending. 1500 coins for black/black?? A color..really? A complete joke and I feel for anyone who buys it. Not only that but people who buy it ruin it for the rest of us as that will assure that things like this will continue to be on the market while the game suffers from lack of creativity, testing and real content.

 

I quit playing Battlefield for this very reason although I loved the game and played it hardcore for over 6 years. Then comes the "shortcut bundle" and I was done. People need to stop supporting this kind of crap if you expect the game companies to put some effort into their work. I don't see the point in being "good" at a game just to have someone buy what I have worked hard to get. What's the point in playing the game then?

 

This isn't even the issue here though it is the fact that after paying for this expansion I'm about ready to quit playing because it is broken in so many ways there's just nothing left that I enjoy doing. I expect bugs when an update comes out but when it takes a month to fix I no longer feel like paying for it.

 

I know nobody really cares I wouldn't either I am just giving my opinion and feedback to let the devs and those thinking about paying for this that I am not happy. Not only that but I am ready to quit playing because it makes me that angry.

[Taiketo]

The fire does most of the damage to the boss on the final fight of Manaan. It doesn't matter what your DPS is doing, you have to hold him under the fire for as long as possible. I've never finished it with less than a minute left, and I've healed and tanked it many many times with random groups.

 

In fact I've done all 3 roles on all of them and still only have issues on first boss of Tython. These are not difficult fights unless you ignore the mechanics. Which it seems you're doing, because that's the only way you would be having issues in the gear you're wearing.

[Bearoak]

The HM flashpoints are too hard for the reward. Plain and simple. I know some groups may be able to breeze right through them. (Good for you. Toot your horn somewhere else please) However, the if it is just a few bosses over tuned. Why aren't they fixed already? Most will say you didn't have a good group. Yeah that hasn't been the case. All of them have been with people in 186 gear and augmented which is above the recommended 178 requirement. That is the recommended gear. (FYI at the time of this post there was a bug for the tooltip indicating 148 gear in the group finder) Next, we must not have know the mechanics. Yeah, that's not the case. However, even if mechanics were shoddy a bit along with minimum gear, one can read the first sentence again. I can understand making things harder, but I will disagree that the difficulty and fewer HM flashpoints made the game better.