Devs; please, please, PLEASE! With a cherry on top!

[Technohic]

I tried to carry them...

[waterboytkd]

I don't really see how anyone can disagree with the OP. Bolser should help new players and the current version certainly don't. The fact that you need to equip lower ranked gear to get the best out of bolster is just stupid and not at all intuitive.

 

Pvp in this game is a niche and we don't need people staying away from it because they get globald or cant scratch the hp of their opponents the first times the try pvp. Sure, they will still lose against experienced players but not feel completely useless.

 

The highlight part x1000. Bolster in this game is utterly backwards, and it's because of Expertise. Here's the thing: Expertise was derived because there were concerns about PvP purists/enthusiasts getting blown out by "PvEers" rocking the tip-top Ops gear. Expertise IS the original bolster. In fact, just like now with weaker gear vs endgame PvE gear, it was more than bolster--it took you PAST the top rated PvE gear.

 

BUT, as it turned out, for those that were new to PvP, it was quite unfun to just get Curb-stomped for a week or two while you picked up your PvP gear. And recruit gear? Good in principle, but failed in implementation, and largely because of the players themselves. "I don't want to look like that," was quite a common excuse for not using it. Turns out, an MMO is really just a teenage-to-adult boy's version of playing Barbie, and looks are very important to a lot of players.

 

So then we got Bolster, so that those first few weeks of getting curb-stomped weren't as bad. But because it also tries to play with Expertise, it was hopelessly complicated, because it was one Bolster system trying to utilize a SECOND BOLSTER SYSTEM. And, as it turns out, end game PvE gear is still the worst gear you can wear into a WZ, which is extremely unintuitive.

 

I still cleave to this one statement: As long as bolster exists, Expertise should not exist.

Edited December 18, 2014 by waterboytkd

[JFoxstride]

And that's the point. We can't play PVP is there is no one to play with. We need noobs, whether fresh 60s or get raider toAT LEAST, have a chance from a stats perspective. This is 50% of the problem that has not been addressed since launch....

 

And it probably won't ever be adressed. Because most hardcore MMO players have this need to feel as powerful as possible while making others feel as miserable as possible.

Take this away from them and you get the forums flooding with tears and whine-threads starting with "I've been playing this game since closed beta but now blah blah..."

[Devilzownz]

The highlight part x1000. Bolster in this game is utterly backwards, and it's because of Expertise. Here's the thing: Expertise was derived because there were concerns about PvP purists/enthusiasts getting blown out by "PvEers" rocking the tip-top Ops gear. Expertise IS the original bolster. In fact, just like now with weaker gear vs endgame PvE gear, it was more than bolster--it took you PAST the top rated PvE gear.

 

BUT, as it turned out, for those that were new to PvP, it was quite unfun to just get Curb-stomped for a week or two while you picked up your PvP gear. And recruit gear? Good in principle, but failed in implementation, and largely because of the players themselves. "I don't want to look like that," was quite a common excuse for not using it. Turns out, an MMO is really just a teenage-to-adult boy's version of playing Barbie, and looks are very important to a lot of players.

 

So then we got Bolster, so that those first few weeks of getting curb-stomped weren't as bad. But because it also tries to play with Expertise, it was hopelessly complicated, because it was one Bolster system trying to utilize a SECOND BOLSTER SYSTEM. And, as it turns out, end game PvE gear is still the worst gear you can wear into a WZ, which is extremely unintuitive.

 

I still cleave to this one statement: As long as bolster exists, Expertise should not exist.

This whole post x1000.

[L-RANDLE]

And it probably won't ever be adressed. Because most hardcore MMO players have this need to feel as powerful as possible while making others feel as miserable as possible.

Take this away from them and you get the forums flooding with tears and whine-threads starting with "I've been playing this game since closed beta but now blah blah..."

 

I would think the health of the game is more paramount than the selfishness. I mean we can't even judge skill in this game. PvP is suppose to be all about skill. Ranked is a joke, regs is a joke, gear changes for no real reason is a joke, Mia complains about premades and how gear farmers would ruin PvP , yet thinks a P2W Chinese MMO is a good example of "good" PvP.

 

This game.... I swear if it wasn't SW. PvP should have been Battlefront3, not this gawd awful mess.....

[MiaRB]

Nobody is raging here. It's just asinine that you fail at even the basic concept.

 

Fail: Sorry, but if it's not relevant in mainstream multiplayer gaming it's irrelevant. I don't care what continent you are on. And a Chinese game at that? Lol....

 

Fail: Not to not only did you bring up a lame *** P2W example, you had that audacity to say it's in the neighborhood of gaming multilayer GIANTS like COD, Street Fighter and Madden. Yeah it's niche, and an after thought.

 

Fail: I said point blank to point me to another PvP game, THATS NOT AN MMO, that has gear progression and as impactful to balance as it is in SWTOR, but still viable form a competitive standpoint, and your response, Chinese MMO from 2009. Priceless...

 

you are raging if your posts are full of ******'s.. also if you have to resort to name calling.

 

SWTOR is a MMORPG. COD is a first person shooter. madden is a sports game. street fighter is an action fighting game.

 

mainstream? Zhu Xian is mainstream in asia.

 

anyway, people who like PVP, PVP a lot and have PVP gear. people who don't like PVP, don't PVP a lot and it doesn't mater what gear you put them in, they are going to get destroyed in PVP over and over and over again, until they PVP enough to be good at it.

 

ive never played madden, but I am 100% sure I would get crushed over and over and over again, until I played it enough to be good at it. I don't play first person shooters very often, so I will get destroyed, over and over and over again when I play one... gear progression or lack of gear progression has NOTHING to do with it.

 

this is a MMORPG and progression is a part of RPGs, especially for MMORPGs. as I said before, more people play WZs at the beginning of a new gear cycle than at the end of one. progression is the reason why. its true in TOR, its true in other MMORPGs as well.

Edited December 18, 2014 by MiaRB

[Vodrin]

And it probably won't ever be adressed. Because most hardcore MMO players have this need to feel as powerful as possible while making others feel as miserable as possible.

Take this away from them and you get the forums flooding with tears and whine-threads starting with "I've been playing this game since closed beta but now blah blah..."

 

Truth is that for every player like this you would lose, you would gain 10 who enjoy an experience where you can customize you stats but not be completely outclassed due to gear.

[Nekkma]

Fixing bolser does not mean no gear progression. I agree that alot of people seem to play just for the progression so it would probably be even more of a niche if it was removed. The key with pvp progression, however, is that the power gap should be very small. The better player should win, not the better geared player.

[L-RANDLE]

Fail:.PvP is not a genre. RPG is a genre, fighter game is a genre. PvP is player versus player, in a team or solo environment.. No different from COD, Street Figgter, Madden, etc...

 

Your definition of an MMO has ZERO to do with PvP. Real PvP. Competitive PvP. You want the gear to carry you against scrubs, but when you run across a BiS geared premade, you come here and QQ about it...

 

Pick a lane junior....

[L-RANDLE]

"It's mainstream in Asia."

 

Versus

 

COD being mainstream globally and significantly more balanced (which is saying a lot considering some of the BS in that game).

 

 

I just critted my pants laughing.

[MiaRB]

Fail:.PvP is not a genre. RPG is a genre, fighter game is a genre. PvP is player versus player, in a team or solo environment.. No different from COD, Street Figgter, Madden, etc...

 

Your definition of an MMO has ZERO to do with PvP. Real PvP. Competitive PvP. You want the gear to carry you against scrubs, but when you run across a BiS geared premade, you come here and QQ about it...

 

Pick a lane junior....

 

lol. I never QQed about premades. people can que sync in normal all day long and it doesn't bother me. I just pointed out how lame certain people are/were who were complaining that no one was queing for ranked, while at the same time they were spending time que syncing normal because a premade of 4 people isnt enough to win, lol.

 

the fact that we are playing a MMORPG has a lot to do with what we are talking about. lots of differences between a MMORPG and a first person shooter or a sports game or a arcade action fighting game.

 

you think gear progression is why everyone doesn't PVP? or gear is why people who hardly even PVP get destroyed in WZs? as I said, people who are good at PVP are good because they spend a lot of time playing PVP and gear is no issue at all. people who are bad at PVP, are bad because they don't PVP enough to not be bad. doesn't mater what gear you put them in.

 

as I also said, madden has no gear progression, but I would get destroyed every single game I played. why? because other people who spend more time playing the game are better than me, who spends no time playing it. i would get more destroyed in madden than newbies get destroyed in TOR PVP.

 

so tell me, how exactly is the small gear gap and not very harsh gear progression in PVP preventing anything at all in this game? give a newbie full min/maxed top tier gear and they will still get stomped. i

Edited December 18, 2014 by MiaRB

[MiaRB]

"It's mainstream in Asia."

 

Versus

 

COD being mainstream globally and significantly more balanced (which is saying a lot considering some of the BS in that game).

 

 

I just critted my pants laughing.

 

candy crush is a pretty popular game also, but don't think it has much to do with MMORPG game play.

 

you think mainsteam in Asia is somehow less than mainstream in the US?

[L-RANDLE]

lol. I never QQed about premades. people can que sync in normal all day long and it doesn't bother me. I just pointed out how lame certain people are/were who were complaining that no one was queing for ranked, while at the same time they were spending time que syncing normal because a premade of 4 people isnt enough to win, lol.

 

the fact that we are playing a MMORPG has a lot to do with what we are talking about. lots of differenced between a MMORPG and a first person shooter or a sports game or a ardade action fighting game.

 

you think gear progression is why everyone doesn't PVP? or gear is why people who hardly even PVP get destroyed in WZs? as I said, people who are good at PVP are good because they spend a lot of time playing PVP and gear is no issue at all. people who are bad at PVP, are bad because they don't PVP enough to not be bad. doesn't mater what gear you put them in.

 

as I also said, madden has no gear progression, but I would get destroyed every single game I played. why? because other people who spend more time playing the game are better than me, who spends no time playing it. i would get more destroyed in madden than newbies get destroyed in TOR PVP.

 

so tell me, how exactly is the small gear gap and not very harsh gear progression in PVP preventing anything at all in this game? give a newbie full min/maxed top tier gear and they will still get stomped. i

 

Small? What are you smoking? Do you know what bolstered/PvP gear mainstatw is versus noobs and raiders? Do you think +1000main is equitable to losing 30% EXP? You think a noob at level 30 has the gear or the tools to compete against level 50 players? You are talking to the person that practically wrote the book on bolster, like I don't know what I am talking about. It's not "small".

 

Yes, please might still lose, but STATS will not be the determining factor.. That's the point Mia. Do you get that? Stats shouldn't matter, at all. And as I said it's 50%.of the problem, the other part is skill/role balancing.

Edited December 18, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[L-RANDLE]

Here I'll post the video again.

 

 

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill:

 

 

Gear is that opposite scenario he's talking about, where players that are "gaining skill through experience" are also being supplimented by increased power due to the gear factor, and bolster being ****** for raiders and noobs.

 

It's a ****ed up system, and doomed to fail if the gear babies don't stop crying about gear. Play PVE and gear progress all you want...

Edited December 18, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[MiaRB]

Small? What are you smoking? Do you know what bolstered/PvP gear mainstatw is versus noobs and raiders? Do you think +1000main is equitable to losing 30% EXP? You think a noob at level 30 has the gear or the tools to compete against level 50 players? You are talking to the person that practically wrote the book on bolster, like I don't know what I am talking about. It's not "small".

 

Yes, please might still lose, but STATS will not be the determining factor.. That's the point Mia. Do you get that? Stats shouldn't matter, at all. And as I said it's 50%.of the problem, the other part is skill/role balancing.

 

oh my goodness. you are talking about pre-60 WZs? really?

 

stats are not the determining factor. no gear in madden, but i have zero chance of winning. there is gear in TOR, but i can beat someone who out gears me if i out play them. or someone who is better than me can still out play me even if they don't have the same gear. i can be in top gear and just play like an idiot on huttball or voidstar and cause my team to lose, while someone who is in worse gear who plays smart can still help their team win.

 

do you really think gear is why not everyone PVPs in MMORPGs? its not.

[Technohic]

In all fairness; the way it is now also hoses those who might be returning PvP players as well. Normalizing gear that falls below 2000 Expertise would help them as well.

[L-RANDLE]

candy crush is a pretty popular game also, but don't think it has much to do with MMORPG game play.

 

you think mainsteam in Asia is somehow less than mainstream in the US?

 

Yes, US="Globally" and Candy Crush has a lot of PvP action. Amirite?

 

I'm sure plenty of Asians play COD, but I know for damn sure Jade is not in the top 50 multiplayer games around the globe or or even in the US for that matter... Keep gasping dat straw Scarecrow...

[L-RANDLE]

oh my goodness. you are talking about pre-60 WZs? really?

 

stats are not the determining factor. no gear in madden, but i have zero chance of winning. there is gear in TOR, but i can beat someone who out gears me if i out play them. or someone who is better than me can still out play me even if they don't have the same gear. i can be in top gear and just play like an idiot on huttball or voidstar and cause my team to lose, while someone who is in worse gear who plays smart can still help their team win.

 

do you really think gear is why not everyone PVPs in MMORPGs? its not.

 

So I guess everyone leaving at 1.2 had nothing to do with the gear system, among other things? Getting rid of RNG bags? Adding bolster? BW sees it, but to pansy to just drop the hammer and get rid of it all together so we can actually know who is skilled and who isn't...

 

I'm just going to drop the mic now..... You are just dumb as hell Mia..

[MiaRB]

Here I'll post the video again.

 

 

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill:

 

 

Gear is that opposite scenario he's talking about, where players that are "gaining skill through experience" are also being supplimented by increased power due to the gear factor, and bolster being ****** for raiders and noobs.

 

It's a ****ed up system, and doomed to fail if the gear babies don't stop crying about gear. Play PVE and gear progress all you want...

 

i should care about some random dude on youtubes opinion, why?

 

gear babies? lol. right. raiders in WZs are in PVE gear why? because they don't PVP enough to have even basic first tier PVP gear. if someone doesn't PVP enough to even get themselves basic PVP gear, you really think gear is why they do poorly in WZs? they do poorly in WZs for the same reason i would do poorly in madden.

 

you think getting destroyed in WZs makes new players give up on PVP altogether? why doesn't getting destroyed in COD or madden or street fighter just make them give up and not play?

[Devilzownz]

i should care about some random dude on youtubes opinion, why?

 

gear babies? lol. right. raiders in WZs are in PVE gear why? because they don't PVP enough to have even basic first tier PVP gear. if someone doesn't PVP enough to even get themselves basic PVP gear, you really think gear is why they do poorly in WZs? they do poorly in WZs for the same reason i would do poorly in madden.

 

you think getting destroyed in WZs makes new players give up on PVP altogether? why doesn't getting destroyed in COD or madden or street fighter just make them give up and not play?

 

Mia please just stop. You obviously have no comprehension of what we're trying to tell you and how it would help the entire pvp community of this game. Go back to grinding for your shinies and thinking that=skill.

[MiaRB]

Yes, US="Globally" and Candy Crush has a lot of PvP action. Amirite?

 

I'm sure plenty of Asians play COD, but I know for damn sure Jade is not in the top 50 multiplayer games around the globe or or even in the US for that matter... Keep gasping dat straw Scarecrow...

 

its still popular in china and when i played, it had more players than any western MMORPG, other han wow of course. why not talk about candy crush? a games genre doesn't seem to matter to you.

 

as i said before, the point isnt how popular the game was or is... the point was, its harsh progression doesn't prevent highly competitive PVP.

[L-RANDLE]

i should care about some random dude on youtubes opinion, why?

 

gear babies? lol. right. raiders in WZs are in PVE gear why? because they don't PVP enough to have even basic first tier PVP gear. if someone doesn't PVP enough to even get themselves basic PVP gear, you really think gear is why they do poorly in WZs? they do poorly in WZs for the same reason i would do poorly in madden.

 

you think getting destroyed in WZs makes new players give up on PVP altogether? why doesn't getting destroyed in COD or madden or street fighter just make them give up and not play?

 

Yes... It makes them not try or quit all together, AND players like Tech and myself don't que either. Understand?

 

Conversely Madden, COD, and Street Fighter have matchmaking and zero stat deltas(for the most part). It's about the meta and the skill.

THAT is why those games are and will remain insanely more popular from a PvP perspective than you and the rest of the archaic "this is an MMO" group. There might as well be no PvP associated with this game, if you are going to allow stat padding and debolstering to LOL levels..

 

 

And no, I'm talking ALL levels of PvP fro level 10 to team ranked. Make it a game of skill so nobody will have excuses besides their own performance.

Edited December 18, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[Devilzownz]

its still popular in china and when i played, it had more players than any western MMORPG, other han wow of course. why not talk about candy crush? a games genre doesn't seem to matter to you.

 

as i said before, the point isnt how popular the game was or is... the point was, its harsh progression doesn't prevent highly competitive PVP.

 

MONEY DOES NOT=HARSH PROGRESSION. ffs Is that really that hard to understand? Pay2win=more money, more win. No progression.

[MiaRB]

MONEY DOES NOT=HARSH PROGRESSION. ffs Is that really that hard to understand? Pay2win=more money, more win. No progression.

 

what? money is the harshest of all forms of progression. more money doesn't mean more win, more money just means you get to take part in the highest level of PVP. besides, even with spending lots of money, the progression in that game is crazy harsh compared to this game. but, it still has very competitive PVP.

[Devilzownz]

what? money is the harshest of all forms of progression. more money doesn't mean more win, more money just means you get to take part in the highest level of PVP. besides, even with spending lots of money, the progression in that game is crazy harsh compared to this game. but, it still has very competitive PVP.

 

I honestly don't even know what to say to this..... You are beyond help my friend.