Devs; please, please, PLEASE! With a cherry on top!

[MiaRB]

I honestly don't even know what to say to this..... You are beyond help my friend.

 

what? everyone who takes part in top level PVP in that game are all maxed out. so spending more money doesn't = more wins. duh. but it still has competitive PVP. so much so that they have tournaments every year.

[L-RANDLE]

I honestly don't even know what to say to this..... You are beyond help my friend.

 

Nah, "it's a trap".comes to mind. Again this is the same person that had an issue with selling PvP mods on the GTN, yet claims P2W is not a problem to competitive PvP...

 

The irony is too much....

[Devilzownz]

what? everyone who takes part in top level PVP in that game are all maxed out. so spending more money doesn't = more wins. duh. but it still has competitive PVP. so much so that they have tournaments every year.

 

I get it now. You're saying that that game is so good for pvp because everyone who pvps in it does so on equal footing? Well, it's about time...

[L-RANDLE]

I get it now. You're saying that that game is so good for pvp because everyone who pvps in it does so on equal footing? Well, it's about time...

 

Ta-da....

 

Nice!

[MiaRB]

Yes... It makes them not try or quit all together, AND players like Tech and myself don't que either. Understand?

 

Conversely Madden, COD, and Street Fighter have matchmaking and zero stat deltas(for the most part). It's about the meta and the skill.

THAT is why those games are and will remain insanely more popular from a PvP perspective than you and the rest of the archaic "this is an MMO" group. There might as well be no PvP associated with this game, if you are going to allow stat padding and debolstering to LOL levels..

 

 

And no, I'm talking ALL levels of PvP fro level 10 to team ranked. Make it a game of skill so nobody will have excuses besides their own performance.

 

right, being console games has nothing at all to do with how popular they are. and it couldn't be that more people like shooters style of combat more than RPG style of combat?

 

i think your problem is you are playing the wrong genre of game, lol. this is a MMORPG with lots of things to do, PVP only being one of the things. not everyone likes to PVP. even people who like PVP, tend to take part in other aspects of the game as well. removing all gear, making everyone the exact same, wont make more people like PVP and PVP will still be dominated by the people who play it the most. sorry, new players and PVEers who only PVP once in a while are still going to get crushed in your boring everyone is the same, system.

 

wait? you don't even PVP? what? you keep subbed just to post on forums?

[Devilzownz]

right, being console games has nothing at all to do with how popular they are. and it couldn't be that more people like shooters style of combat more than RPG style of combat?

 

i think your problem is you are playing the wrong genre of game, lol. this is a MMORPG with lots of things to do, PVP only being one of the things. not everyone likes to PVP. even people who like PVP, tend to take part in other aspects of the game as well. removing all gear, making everyone the exact same, wont make more people like PVP and PVP will still be dominated by the people who play it the most. sorry, new players and PVEers who only PVP once in a while are still going to get crushed in your boring everyone is the same, system.

 

wait? you don't even PVP? what? you keep subbed just to post on forums?

 

Of course people who play PVP more will still dominate those who don't. The difference with removing the gear gap is that when someone new comes into the PVP scene right now, they're nothing but cannon fodder/dead weight to the team. They hit like a wet noodle and likely know nothing about the strategies all at the same time. Now you remove the gear gap and put everyone on the same level. That same person is still a hamper to his team, but at least when he runs into the enemy he is a threat because his damage isn't laughable. He can do SOMETHING to help his team while he learns the rest.

[L-RANDLE]

right, being console games has nothing at all to do with how popular they are. and it couldn't be that more people like shooters style of combat more than RPG style of combat?

 

i think your problem is you are playing the wrong genre of game, lol. this is a MMORPG with lots of things to do, PVP only being one of the things. not everyone likes to PVP. even people who like PVP, tend to take part in other aspects of the game as well. removing all gear, making everyone the exact same, wont make more people like PVP and PVP will still be dominated by the people who play it the most. sorry, new players and PVEers who only PVP once in a while are still going to get crushed in your boring everyone is the same, system.

 

wait? you don't even PVP? what? you keep subbed just to post on forums?

Nope I'm a PvP player that owned an Atari 2600 and farmed for 40 hours to get one sword in FFXII. I am subbed because I also enjoy profiteering and running the occasional flashpoint and have multiple mules strictly for those purposes, not for PVP.

 

If I don't PvP, how would I educate the community on bolster? I play more than enough PvP, but you'd be a fool not to acknowledge how effed up it is. Again you just proved how dumb you are....

[waterboytkd]

removing all gear, making everyone the exact same, wont make more people like PVP and PVP will still be dominated by the people who play it the most. sorry, new players and PVEers who only PVP once in a while are still going to get crushed in your boring everyone is the same, system.

 

I'm pretty sure no one has suggested to make everyone "the same". Most suggestions still allow for stat customization. There's still roles on a team.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you so against it? How does the current system benefit PvP play and the PvP community?

[MiaRB]

I get it now. You're saying that that game is so good for pvp because everyone who pvps in it does so on equal footing? Well, it's about time...

 

that is not at all what i said. everyone who wants to be competitive at high level PVP is maxed out and put in their time and money to get there. as i said, it is a very harsh progression that takes a lot of time, even if you pay a lot of money. but still competitive PVP.

 

so even a harsh time and money consuming progression doesn't prevent competitive PVP.

[L-RANDLE]

that is not at all what i said. everyone who wants to be competitive at high level PVP is maxed out and put in their time and money to get there. as i said, it is a very harsh progression that takes a lot of time, even if you pay a lot of money. but still competitive PVP.

 

so even a harsh time and money consuming progression doesn't prevent competitive PVP.

 

Dear Mia,

 

 

 

The only difference is we see no reason time or "money" should exclude you from BEING COMPETITIVE FROM A STATS PERSPECTIVE, NOT A SKILL(time) PERSPECTIVE. Unless skill is using your ink sword to write a check so you can actually play?

 

[MotorCityMan]

Devs, please, please, PLEASE delete threads that don't have the subject of the post in the title.

[MiaRB]

I'm pretty sure no one has suggested to make everyone "the same". Most suggestions still allow for stat customization. There's still roles on a team.

 

Out of curiosity, why are you so against it? How does the current system benefit PvP play and the PvP community?

 

how does the current system hurt the PVP community? if you PVP enough to consider yourself a part of the community then you PVP enough to have gear. right?

 

i don't believe gear is the major factor in how someone performs in PVP. people who get destroyed in WZs over and over would still get destroyed no matter what gear they are in.

 

and like it or not, with no progression or something to work towards, there will be less people in PVP que, not more.

[L-RANDLE]

how does the current system hurt the PVP community? if you PVP enough to consider yourself a part of the community then you PVP enough to have gear. right?

 

i don't believe gear is the major factor in how someone performs in PVP. people who get destroyed in WZs over and over would still get destroyed no matter what gear they are in.

 

and like it or not, with no progression or something to work towards, there will be less people in PVP que, not more.

 

People come back for new content. Gear is not equal to content. Need proof? Tell me how many people came back when Obroan was moved from T2 to T1?

 

You won't find it.. All arrows pointed to a PvP decline in the analysis posted a few months ago. You once again falling into the Chicken Little mentality.

 

Guess what?

 

Just about all gearing options have been tried, except one. No gear at all. So take that " less in que" crap back where it came from....

Edited December 18, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[MiaRB]

Dear Mia,

 

 

 

The only difference is we see no reason time or "money" should exclude you from BEING COMPETITIVE FROM A STATS PERSPECTIVE, NOT A SKILL(time) PERSPECTIVE. Unless skill is using your ink sword to write a check so you can actually play?

 

ok then, now we are getting somewhere. so you are basically admitting that its all about not wanting any grind for alts, right? since player skill takes time, the time spend getting good at PVP is more than the time it takes to get PVP gear. so its not really about getting more people to PVP or to help newbies or PVEers who don't care for PVP. because giving them equal stats/gear isnt going to make them any better than they are. only playing time will make them better.

[waterboytkd]

how does the current system hurt the PVP community? if you PVP enough to consider yourself a part of the community then you PVP enough to have gear. right?

 

i don't believe gear is the major factor in how someone performs in PVP. people who get destroyed in WZs over and over would still get destroyed no matter what gear they are in.

 

and like it or not, with no progression or something to work towards, there will be less people in PVP que, not more.

 

New blood. It hurts us getting new players.

 

There's already the hurdle of just learning how to PvP. But couple learning the ropes with also having terrible gear (especially if you do ANY endgame PvE), and you get a situation where learning is much harder, because even if you do things right, your gear might cause you to fail anyways. It also creates negative experiences for PvE endgame raiders that might like to casually do a PvP match every once in a great while, as their gear is actually a hindrance.

 

Nevermind that bolster is an overly complex system when you try and make it play with Expertise. This complexity leads to all kinds of negative experiences for users as its unintuitive, and I would bet dollars to donuts that it has also led to bugs or "not WAI" situations.

 

Also nevermind that it would be EASY to design the rewards in such a way that there is still the gear progression. It would just not have an impact on your PvP performance.

 

As for less people in queue without progression: this argument never makes much sense to me. There's not much gear progression to begin with in PvP. And if the progression is the only reason they play...won't they just stop playing once they have the gear? So are they even in the queues anyways?

[MiaRB]

People come back for new content. Gear is not equal to content. Need proof? Tell me how many people came back when Obroan was moved from T2 to T1?

 

You won't find it.. All arrows pointed to a PvP decline in the analysis posted a few months ago. You once again falling into the Chicken Little mentality.

 

Guess what?

 

Just about all gearing options have been tried, except one. No gear at all. So take that " less in que" crap back where it came from....

 

yes, because market research from multiple MMORPGs are all wrong and you are right based on what? your feelings?

 

having no gear will change what? will having no gear make a bad player good? will it make someone with zero PVP time spent as good as someone with hundreds of hours spent? the only thing it does is make it so you don't have to gear up your alts.

 

the no gear option has never been tried in the MMORPG genre? are you sure about that?

Edited December 18, 2014 by MiaRB

[MiaRB]

New blood. It hurts us getting new players.

 

There's already the hurdle of just learning how to PvP. But couple learning the ropes with also having terrible gear (especially if you do ANY endgame PvE), and you get a situation where learning is much harder, because even if you do things right, your gear might cause you to fail anyways. It also creates negative experiences for PvE endgame raiders that might like to casually do a PvP match every once in a great while, as their gear is actually a hindrance.

 

 

i don't really believe that. first time i played PVP in a MMO, i was terrible and just got crushed over and over. which is probably true for most people, but here i am and here you are playing PVP in an MMO.

 

PVE raiders who casually want to PVP once in a while are still going to be bad at it unless they are only facing other casual raiders of their same skill level.

[waterboytkd]

i don't really believe that. first time i played PVP in a MMO, i was terrible and just got crushed over and over. which is probably true for most people, but here i am and here you are playing PVP in an MMO.

 

PVE raiders who casually want to PVP once in a while are still going to be bad at it unless they are only facing other casual raiders of their same skill level.

 

Actually, I had an interesting experience with PvP right off the bat. My first character was on The Harbinger, but this was the Spring of 2012, and a buddy was bugging me to reroll on his server. So I did. And then I got curious about PvP, so another friend who was new like me and I started doing lowbie PvP. We were getting pretty good at that, and then something happened. Server mergers.

 

All of a sudden, I had a level 50 of the same class I was PvPing with in lowbies. I thought, "Hey, let's try this out at cap!" So I got my recruit gear and tried it out. I got utterly annihilated. So I thought, "Well, maybe I'm just not ready for 50 PvP yet," and continued on my lowbie.

 

Then we got to cap. I got my recruit gear (and had some comms for some other gear, too), and I got utterly annihilated again. But this time, I knew what I was doing, and everything I read said this is what happens until you get that first real tier of gear. So I slogged through, and as I picked up gear, I started doing MUCH better.

 

Granted, there might have been some learning in there still (I knew my class, but still wasn't used to going up against players with all their abilities), but as my performance directly corresponded with my gear, it wasn't the biggest determining factor.

 

Once I had gear, I could do stuff. I was still noobish against some classes, and that was the skill curve coming into play. But at least I felt like I could contribute, which is something I did NOT feel in recruit gear. Of course, thanks to bolster, things aren't so bad anymore...as long as you start PvPing as soon as you hit cap. I feel sorry for the guy that does some PvE endgame stuff, then decides to try PvP, though...his gear is going to make him feel like I did in that recruit stuff.

[vermura]

Expertise itself has way too much attached to it. +60% damage? REALLLY? 60% that is... rather a LOT.

 

This is a problem for MANY reasons, but one of them is quite simply this:

 

Any class imbalances are magnified by those expertise percentages, making them MUCH WORSE.

[L-RANDLE]

yes, because market research from multiple MMORPGs are all wrong and you are right based on what? your feelings?

 

having no gear will change what? will having no gear make a bad player good? will it make someone with zero PVP time spent as good as someone with hundreds of hours spent? the only thing it does is make it so you don't have to gear up your alts.

 

the no gear option has never been tried in the MMORPG genre? are you sure about that?

 

I'm not talking about other MMOs, I'm talking about this one. And this has zero to do with my alts. Most of them aren't even at 55, and likely will never be at cap because I don't have them for PvP. They are mules for profiteering, as I already stated. I play two toons at cap, so gearing is never and has never been an issue for me, but I don't blindly try to push ideas like "everyone should have to grind gear because I did" mentality. I am other don't want gear to EVER be an excuse for other players not to PvP, and saying it's a non issue or you "need to take your lumps" is again, asinine.

 

Your issue is that you have a hard time delineating what PvP is versus your archaic definition of MMORPG. Read this closely:

 

Gear progression in an RPG is a means to be able to complete tougher content in the AI realm. That has nothing to do with PvP. Once you introduce PvP as a GAME MODE (which is genre irrelevant), there HAS to be some tools that balance the playing field for everyone's enjoyment, not just premades, not just gear grinders, not just noobs. MMO PvP has never been popular because of this AND the other issue I pointed out. Otherwise, the game has zero credibility when attempting to discuss who the bad players are versus who the good players are.

 

I value being able to out meta people ,and the fact is stat disparities make the meta useless in 99% of the cases. You are right though gear doesn't make a bad player good, but it certainly makes a bad player worst. There is no way your lame *** hyperbole can counter that because PvP has failed in this game, with stat disparages being a major factor in it.

[MiaRB]

I'm not talking about other MMOs, I'm talking about this one. And this has zero to do with my alts. Most of them aren't even at 55, and likely will never be at cap because I don't have them for PvP. They are mules for profiteering, as I already stated. I play two toons at cap, so gearing is never and has never been an issue for me, but I don't blindly try to push ideas like "everyone should have to grind gear because I did" mentality. I am other don't want gear to EVER be an excuse for other players not to PvP, and saying it's a non issue or you "need to take your lumps" is again, asinine.

 

Your issue is that you have a hard time delineating what PvP is versus your archaic definition of MMORPG. Read this closely:

 

Gear progression in an RPG is a means to be able to complete tougher content in the AI realm. That has nothing to do with PvP. Once you introduce PvP as a GAME MODE (which is genre irrelevant), there HAS to be some tools that balance the playing field for everyone's enjoyment, not just premades, not just gear grinders, not just noobs. MMO PvP has never been popular because of this AND the other issue I pointed out. Otherwise, the game has zero credibility when attempting to discuss who the bad players are versus who the good players are.

 

I value being able to out meta people ,and the fact is stat disparities make the meta useless in 99% of the cases. You are right though gear doesn't make a bad player good, but it certainly makes a bad player worst. There is no way your lame *** hyperbole can counter that because PvP has failed in this game, with stat disparages being a major factor in it.

 

oh, only this MMORPG counts? why? because its so vastly different from other MMORPGs? surly you can go find me an example of a MMORPG that uses "the no gear option" and is so successful because of it that it is as popular as COD is. since that seems to be your standard. COD numbers or its a failure and unpopular, lol.

 

MMO pvp has never been popular? really? ive played many MMOs were PVP was very popular. even MMO's that didn't have any PVE servers at all, all servers were PVP. all had larger gear gaps and longer grinds than TOR has in PVP. war thunder and world of tanks are MMO's, not MMORPGs, but they are PVP and have much worse "gear" grinds than TOR does. both are pretty popular though. just because MMORPGs attract a lot of players who don't like PVP doesn't really mean MMORPG pvp isnt popular.

 

BW can give everyone the same gear and its not going to change much at all. bads will still be bad. new players will still get stomped. PVEers who just PVP once in a while will still get crushed by PVPers who PVP all the time.

 

PVP failed in this game? really? ive been PVPing since the game launched. i PVPed today. WZs pop all day long. during prime hours rateds pop over and over. i guess PVP has failed in every other MMORPG as well? because you say so?

[Dacorianton]

You can grind out and get the PVP gear just like everyone else. Then, you don't have to worry about bolster. You are basically asking for a charity. PVE gear should not ever be equal to PVP gear in warzones. What fun is mmo without having to actually earn and work for something? Plus people who like to PVP a lot should be rewarded for that with something that benefits them in PVP. Might as well just ask if we can start skipping levels 1-59 too right?

 

THE FUN....IS.........THAT....I........GET......TO.....PLAY.....NOT.......GRIND....CONFUSED ARE YOU?

[sanchito]

THE FUN....IS.........THAT....I........GET......TO.....PLAY.....NOT.......GRIND....CONFUSED ARE YOU?

 

yes exactly this; the whole gear grind in pvp is a gigantic mistake anyway. At some point some dev looked at the working pve model and thought "how can we translate this to pvp" and because that game was successful everyone else copied it. Notwithstanding the fact that the original game was successful despite the failed pvp gear progression, not because of it.

 

No other genre does it, no other sport does it. In most it would be totally ridiculous to even consider something like this, it's a really pve thing that players should have an advantage because of time invested.

[Yezzan]

I never played a game where they just hand out PvP gear lol. You HAVE to pvp if you want the gear and it usually requires several thousand matches . But when you do get that gear, you can pretty much afk and kill PvE geared people lol

 

I suppose the reason why BW hasn't make PvP-geared people "gods" is to encourage everyone to participate in this aspect of the game (since we are paying for everything anyways ). What they could do is have 3 tiers of PvP

 

1. regular wz- FOR EVERYONE (yay! \o/ )

2. ranked - As is: valor 40 and to prepare you for elite

3 elite- Dog-eats-dog, no bolster. If you come with **** gear you get squashed, no apologies.

 

Pretty sure Queue time for elite would be the same as queuing for story mode ops. I saw people begging layers to queue for Ranked on Harbinger yesterday cause everyone was queuing for Regs

 

Is it too much to ask that you just jump in and have some fun?

 

I mean if you loose you still win and if you win, well, you win!

Edited December 19, 2014 by Yezzan

[BloodDevistaor]

And that's the point. We can't play PVP is there is no one to play with. We need noobs, whether fresh 60s or get raider toAT LEAST, have a chance from a stats perspective. This is 50% of the problem that has not been addressed since launch....

 

Funny how someone such as yourself lurks in PVP forums all day and seemingly fairly "knowledgeable" in the PVP aspects of this game yet you never step up to do 4s. And you wonder why the PVP community is dying....

 

Sigh, people need to realize nothing matters in the PVP aspect of this game except Team Ranked because it is the only actual somewhat competitive element left. Lol, you make it seem like regs is "dying" because people aren't determined enough to deal with gear issues yet you know nothing of 4s, pls get real

Edited December 24, 2014 by BloodDevistaor