Dyes and color matching conspicuously absent in class cutscenes.

[Heavensrun]

I realize this issue has been around forever, but I was kind of dumbfounded to see that it is -still- cropping up in the new cutscenes for Shadow of Revan. What the hell is the difference between the class cutscenes and every flashpoint or group cutscene in the game, that the class story cutscenes CANNOT apply dyes or color matching to your companions? The cutscene at the beginning of my trooper's Revan arc is super cool, but everybody looks horrible in it.

 

How is this still a thing?

[XiamaraSimi]

Probably for the same reason Vector and Scourge still wear bras, tbey couldn't care less, and can't be bothered to fix it.

[eartharioch]

Lol, even the new cut scenes have these bugs...like the Agent *still* using a Blaster Pistol. So it's not just a matter not fixing old ones.

[Heavensrun]

Lol, even the new cut scenes have these bugs...like the Agent *still* using a Blaster Pistol. So it's not just a matter not fixing old ones.

 

Eh, that's not a bug, that's a decision. Since different agents use different sorts of weapons (knives, blaster rifles, sniper rifles) they default in cutscenes to a standard blaster pistol. The Trooper does the same thing, even though my commando has a giant cannon strapped to her back. It's kindof a staple in bioware games. (look up "dragon age murder knife" for a similar situation)

 

But for the life of me, I don't get what the difference is between, say, the makeb cutscenes, where everybody's clothes look -fine-, and the class story cutscenes, where they all look like their blind nanny dressed them this morning.

[Heavensrun]

Probably for the same reason Vector and Scourge still wear bras, tbey couldn't care less, and can't be bothered to fix it.

 

That's -two- companions when wearing very specific outfits, and at least it's on the known issues list!

 

This is something that can effect pretty much everybody playing the game (including lots of people who spent cartel coins dyeing outfits for their companions) and it can make potentially any companion look awful, and it's not even mentioned in the known issues. AND it's a thing that's been around for way longer than Scourge's underwear choices.

[Only-a-Lad]

Eh, that's not a bug, that's a decision. Since different agents use different sorts of weapons (knives, blaster rifles, sniper rifles) they default in cutscenes to a standard blaster pistol. The Trooper does the same thing, even though my commando has a giant cannon strapped to her back. It's kindof a staple in bioware games. (look up "dragon age murder knife" for a similar situation)

 

Except at the opening of the new class mission my Commando is leisurely strolling around his ship with a giant cannon strapped to his back (what better way to relax) only later to use a hyperdiminsional pistol pulled out of thin air. The non action scenes had it (which was new to me) but wasn't used.

 

But for the life of me, I don't get what the difference is between, say, the makeb cutscenes, where everybody's clothes look -fine-, and the class story cutscenes, where they all look like their blind nanny dressed them this morning.

 

Before the Unify Color option we were calling this "Clown Mode".

Unlike past bugs though, at least all my companions had armor on for once.

[DeLaaNie]

Let's not forget when they either remove your headgear or, if it's turned off, turn it on during a cutscene.

[eartharioch]

Eh, that's not a bug, that's a decision. Since different agents use different sorts of weapons (knives, blaster rifles, sniper rifles) they default in cutscenes to a standard blaster pistol. The Trooper does the same thing, even though my commando has a giant cannon strapped to her back. It's kindof a staple in bioware games. (look up "dragon age murder knife" for a similar situation)

 

But for the life of me, I don't get what the difference is between, say, the makeb cutscenes, where everybody's clothes look -fine-, and the class story cutscenes, where they all look like their blind nanny dressed them this morning.

 

It's both a bug and a [bad] decision. No Agent can use a Blaster Pistol (in game), they start with Blaster Rifle, and then get Vibroknife when they select an AC, and Snipers get Sniper Rifle.

 

It's just sad that the Agent can't use the Blaster Pistol and strike a James Bond pose. TBH, I'm not sure why the devs thought that it was ok for the Jedi/Sith mirror classes to use exactly the same weapons, but not the tech ones. The Smuggler and Trooper are fine, but making the Agent use a Blaster Rifle (which looks out of place AND isn't consistent with using an off hand weapon) and making the [Power Tech] use just a one-handed weapon is pretty stupid.

[Max_Killjoy]

Maybe we should all submit in-game bug reports for every single cutscene in which dyes and unified colors aren't applied, helmets don't follow the helmet design, etc.

 

Every. Single. Time.

[Darth_Wicked]

Probably for the same reason Vector and Scourge still wear bras, tbey couldn't care less, and can't be bothered to fix it.

 

That depends on the customization. See here for example.

 

If I have Scourge using those robes, combined with his default appearance, his skin goes dark black for some reason. Same with other customizations, but not that one.

 

I believe something similar happens with Vector, and possibly Yuun.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Mozepy]

Let's not forget when they either remove your headgear or, if it's turned off, turn it on during a cutscene.

 

I think some of that is intentional. It seems to me they removed headgear in any scene where "romance" may happen. I can only speak of the scenes I've seen.

[Jedi_riches]

I think some of that is intentional. It seems to me they removed headgear in any scene where "romance" may happen. I can only speak of the scenes I've seen.

 

Yeah that makes sense, my commando can't kiss Elara if we both have our "clone trooper" style helmets on.

 

With the weapons, its a simple matter of animation, it is easier to have 1 animation with a commando where you can see the assault cannon on their back and to use a pistol, than to have 2 different animations depending on which weapon you actually use. Its also the same with jedi classes the sentinel always seems to only activate his right hand weapon on cut scenes as this would also be the same on a guardian.

 

But as for the general un-matching armour, it really should not still be a problem but the devs obviously don't see it as game breaking issue and are in no hurry (or if ever) to fix it. To a certain extent I can see why, it is an annoyance rather that something to spoil the whole game but I would still like to see this fixed.

[Heavensrun]

It's both a bug and a [bad] decision. No Agent can use a Blaster Pistol (in game), they start with Blaster Rifle, and then get Vibroknife when they select an AC, and Snipers get Sniper Rifle.

 

It's just sad that the Agent can't use the Blaster Pistol and strike a James Bond pose. TBH, I'm not sure why the devs thought that it was ok for the Jedi/Sith mirror classes to use exactly the same weapons, but not the tech ones. The Smuggler and Trooper are fine, but making the Agent use a Blaster Rifle (which looks out of place AND isn't consistent with using an off hand weapon) and making the [Power Tech] use just a one-handed weapon is pretty stupid.

 

A bug is when a program does something the programmers didn't want it to do. It's not just a catch-all term for "stuff the game does that I don't like." As for why a blaster pistol rather than a rifle or other weapon, eh, there are various possible reasons? It might be out of a sense of fairness. "We'll just use a pistol in the cutscenes, because if we use a rifle the commandos feel cheated, and if we use a assault cannon the vanguards feel cheated" Making seperate cutscenes for different weapon possibilities is extra work, after all. Not saying I agree with it, but that's why it's there.

 

The color thing, tho, just...It's clearly a thing that is broken and has been forever, and it isn't acknowledged on the known issues page. That disturbs me a bit.

[Heavensrun]

I think some of that is intentional. It seems to me they removed headgear in any scene where "romance" may happen. I can only speak of the scenes I've seen.

 

It's not -just- romance scenes, it's generally any scene with a strong emotional beat. And anything on board the ship, generally.

[Heavensrun]

Maybe we should all submit in-game bug reports for every single cutscene in which dyes and unified colors aren't applied, helmets don't follow the helmet design, etc.

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

I kinda support this notion. At least until the problem is acknowledged by the devs.

[eartharioch]

A bug is when a program does something the programmers didn't want it to do. It's not just a catch-all term for "stuff the game does that I don't like." As for why a blaster pistol rather than a rifle or other weapon, eh, there are various possible reasons? It might be out of a sense of fairness. "We'll just use a pistol in the cutscenes, because if we use a rifle the commandos feel cheated, and if we use a assault cannon the vanguards feel cheated" Making seperate cutscenes for different weapon possibilities is extra work, after all. Not saying I agree with it, but that's why it's there.

 

The color thing, tho, just...It's clearly a thing that is broken and has been forever, and it isn't acknowledged on the known issues page. That disturbs me a bit.

 

Most cut scenes show my character using whatever gear my companions and I have equipped, so when a cut scene shows me using a different weapon, different armor, a headpiece when I have "Hide Headslot" checked, or base colors (failing to account for a dye module or Unify Colors setting), I call it a bug. I realize that a lot of the old cut scenes were written at earlier stages of development, and while I would like them fixed, I understand (but don't approve) of BW's fear to touch otherwise working code. But it's just plain sloppy when they copy old bugs into new code. If the devs want to come here and say/lie that the Agent using a blaster pistol is "Working As Intended", I'd say that *at best* that "upgrades" it from bug to bad design decision.

 

They clearly have the ability to show characters using all of their actually equipped gear, since most cut scenes do that. So when a cut scene *doesn't* do that, I have a hard time thinking that somebody made an intentional artistic decision to override that behavior and replace my actually equipped weapon with another one, much less one my class can't use.

[Heavensrun]

Most cut scenes show my character using whatever gear my companions and I have equipped, so when a cut scene shows me using a different weapon, different armor, a headpiece when I have "Hide Headslot" checked, or base colors (failing to account for a dye module or Unify Colors setting), I call it a bug. I realize that a lot of the old cut scenes were written at earlier stages of development, and while I would like them fixed, I understand (but don't approve) of BW's fear to touch otherwise working code. But it's just plain sloppy when they copy old bugs into new code. If the devs want to come here and say/lie that the Agent using a blaster pistol is "Working As Intended", I'd say that *at best* that "upgrades" it from bug to bad design decision.

 

They clearly have the ability to show characters using all of their actually equipped gear, since most cut scenes do that. So when a cut scene *doesn't* do that, I have a hard time thinking that somebody made an intentional artistic decision to override that behavior and replace my actually equipped weapon with another one, much less one my class can't use.

 

The "earlier stages of development" issue doesn't enter in on the weapon issue, though, it's about the fact that the same story cutscenes are shared between what are actually two different classes.

 

The "trooper" storyline is shared by vanguards and commandos. One of those is a tank class with a blaster rifle, one is a dps class with an assault cannon.

 

The "agent" storyline is shared by snipers and operatives. One is an stealth/dps class with a sniper rifle, the other is a healing/dps class with an ordinary rifle.

 

Similar issues apply to the smuggler and the bounty hunter. Jedi and sith don't have this issue, because they all use lightsabers within the lore.

 

 

Because the different specialties use different weapons, the devs have two options: They can make one cutscene with one weapon, or they can make two cutscenes with two weapons. Two cutscenes is extra work: That's effort that can be spent on other aspects of the game, so they have to make a decision about whether it's worth it.

 

Since they obviously decided to go with a single cutscene for both classes of agent, They then have to decide how the agent is going to act in that cutscene. Is he going to play the sniper role? Or the operative role? Doesn't seem fair to do either of those, so they made a conscious choice to have the cutscenes take a more general route with a generic weapon. There's no lore reason that an agent can't also use blaster pistols, the limitation of different classes to different weapons is a gameplay conceit. (mostly it makes balance and animation issues easier to manage)

 

You can go ahead and call that a "bug" if you want to, but you might as well call a sedan a truck, and call a barn a house, because that's basically equivalent to what you're doing. A "bug" is, by definition, a behavior that is not intended by the devs. It doesn't matter if you find it desirable or not, if it's working as designed, it's not a "bug".

 

That's why I feel like the weapon issue is a distraction on this topic. If you go throwing the word "bug" around on things that aren't bugs, it makes you look unreasonable, and gives any dev reading a pretty decent reason to ignore what you're saying.

 

The color issue, I believe, -is- a bug, in that I don't think it's intended behavior. Maybe there's some reason behind it that I don't know. I kinda wish I could find a dev comment on the issue, or see it on the known issues list, so that I'd know at least that it's something they're considering a fix for.

 

What makes it strange to me is specifically that -some- cutscenes apply dyes and color matching just -fine-, while others don't, and I don't see a reasoning behind that. That's what makes this seem like an actual bug to me.

 

That's my last comment on the weapon thing, because it's not the point of my post.

 

Maybe it might be worth it for people to make note of what cutscenes they notice the problem in, vs what cutscenes they don't. It seems like the distinction is pretty cleanly along the lines of class quest vs non-class quests. Cutscenes where you can potentially share the stage with other players seem to function fine, but cutscenes where it's just you and your companions don't display color options correctly.

[Excise]

I think some of that is intentional. It seems to me they removed headgear in any scene where "romance" may happen. I can only speak of the scenes I've seen.

 

"I like it with the helmet on."

[eartharioch]

The "earlier stages of development" issue doesn't enter in on the weapon issue, though, it's about the fact that the same story cutscenes are shared between what are actually two different classes.

 

The "trooper" storyline is shared by vanguards and commandos. One of those is a tank class with a blaster rifle, one is a dps class with an assault cannon.

 

The "agent" storyline is shared by snipers and operatives. One is an stealth/dps class with a sniper rifle, the other is a healing/dps class with an ordinary rifle.

 

Similar issues apply to the smuggler and the bounty hunter. Jedi and sith don't have this issue, because they all use lightsabers within the lore.

 

 

Because the different specialties use different weapons, the devs have two options: They can make one cutscene with one weapon, or they can make two cutscenes with two weapons. Two cutscenes is extra work: That's effort that can be spent on other aspects of the game, so they have to make a decision about whether it's worth it.

 

Since they obviously decided to go with a single cutscene for both classes of agent, They then have to decide how the agent is going to act in that cutscene. Is he going to play the sniper role? Or the operative role? Doesn't seem fair to do either of those, so they made a conscious choice to have the cutscenes take a more general route with a generic weapon. There's no lore reason that an agent can't also use blaster pistols, the limitation of different classes to different weapons is a gameplay conceit. (mostly it makes balance and animation issues easier to manage)

 

You can go ahead and call that a "bug" if you want to, but you might as well call a sedan a truck, and call a barn a house, because that's basically equivalent to what you're doing. A "bug" is, by definition, a behavior that is not intended by the devs. It doesn't matter if you find it desirable or not, if it's working as designed, it's not a "bug".

 

That's why I feel like the weapon issue is a distraction on this topic. If you go throwing the word "bug" around on things that aren't bugs, it makes you look unreasonable, and gives any dev reading a pretty decent reason to ignore what you're saying.

 

The color issue, I believe, -is- a bug, in that I don't think it's intended behavior. Maybe there's some reason behind it that I don't know. I kinda wish I could find a dev comment on the issue, or see it on the known issues list, so that I'd know at least that it's something they're considering a fix for.

 

What makes it strange to me is specifically that -some- cutscenes apply dyes and color matching just -fine-, while others don't, and I don't see a reasoning behind that. That's what makes this seem like an actual bug to me.

 

That's my last comment on the weapon thing, because it's not the point of my post.

 

Maybe it might be worth it for people to make note of what cutscenes they notice the problem in, vs what cutscenes they don't. It seems like the distinction is pretty cleanly along the lines of class quest vs non-class quests. Cutscenes where you can potentially share the stage with other players seem to function fine, but cutscenes where it's just you and your companions don't display color options correctly.

 

So, you can identify the problem, you just don't want to call it a bug. Well, sorry, all we get is a Bugs forum, we don't have separate "kludge" or "Engine limitation" sections (although there seem to be enough of the latter), and we don't have access to their design documents or source code, so the generic term "bug" is pretty much the only one worth using for a generic report of "not working as expected".

 

As you admit, cut scenes seem to work for dialogs that can be accessed by all eight/sixteen ACs. So why wouldn't I think that a scene that can only be accessed by two ACs should also work? Why shouldn't I call that a bug?

 

Now, just because it looks like a bug from the outside doesn't mean it really is a coding defect, maybe those cut scenes do "more" in them than the more generic ones. But there's no way to tell from the outside, so I call it like I see it. If the devs want to drop by and say that it was a design trade off (Engine Limitation), and explain what we get in return for not getting to see our characters use the gear that we have taken time, credits, or CC to acquire, mod, and equip, that would be fine. Well, not really "fine", but it would close the issue as far as whether or not it was a bug.

 

But so far, they haven't, and all we can see from the outside is that some classes get to see cut scenes with their characters using the proper weapons, and some don't.

 

BTW, your attempt to defend the devs by saying that wouldn't be fair to show one AC using it's weapon and another not is pretty lame on two counts. First, the classic "two wrongs don't make a right." Second, and most importantly, you are just wrong. Agents and Troopers both start out with the ability to use Blaster Rifles, and Snipers and Commandos don't lose that ability when they learn their "better" weapons. So why would it be "unfair" to either AC to show them using the common weapon they both used before choosing an AC, and why wouldn't that be *better* than showing them both using a weapon they *never* used.

 

TBH, I suspect the real reason is even worse than it looks. As you also noted, most of the Force User scenes [seem to] work because they all use lightsabers. So, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that *all* tech users get Blaster Pistols because that was easier than making separate Blaster Pistol and Blaster Rifle code. And *that* would be unfair the way you meant it.

 

Finally, cut scenes look crappy when they show us using the wrong gear (weapons, companion armor, dyes, etc.), and that's (at the end of the day), what we are complaining about here -- crappy looking cut scenes. We spend lots of time, credits, and CC getting our characters to look the way we want them, so we have a right to complain when the game doesn't use them.

 

I understand that the devs are limited by the technology, but at the end of the day, it's their job to do what they can with the tech they have. So, if they want to show all Agents/Troopers/Tech users using a Blaster Pistol, they could (should) have found a way to write that into the story. There are lots of ways this could have been done cheaply and easily -- anywhere from showing the Agent/Trooper using a Blaster Pistol in the opening cut scenes or class quest and being told to "Keep it for when you need to make a quiet kill" and then getting handed a Blaster Rifle or letting all tech users use Blaster Pistols (only) until choosing an AC and getting Blaster Rifle / Assault Rifle / Sniper Rifle.

Edited December 23, 2014 by eartharioch