Gwence Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Killed under lurker twice tonight - whether it is bugged or not once the tactic is executed correctly the fight is very easy. If you want to beat it have the tank stand far from the rest of the group, the boss will jump to random player after the knockdown then walk back to the tank and drop the cross giving plenty of time for everyone to get in position. If people are too close to tank he either won't jump and lay cross right away or he'll do a short jump and still lay cross pretty much right away, tank can try to kite him to delay the mechanic. If he chooses a player to jump at that has hydraulics on it will not jump and lay cross right away. Coordinate a rock for group to go to away from the tank and use entrench/hydraulics at your own risk and this fight is a joke. Edited December 20, 2014 by Gwence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTPRO Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 We struggled a bit yesterday on SM, and after trying many things, we found out how to "unbug" the boss. Apparently standing behind the tank/ dps/ healer marks when the boss does the cross solves the "always red cross issue". In other words, when the cross happens, make sure the dps/healer/ tank marks are between you and the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 We struggled a bit yesterday on SM, and after trying many things, we found out how to "unbug" the boss. Apparently standing behind the tank/ dps/ healer marks when the boss does the cross solves the "always red cross issue". In other words, when the cross happens, make sure the dps/healer/ tank marks are between you and the boss. That is a very good point. We tried that on SM too and it worked flawlessly. If only people can pick the instant cross mechanic "how to avoid" from earlier pages they should now be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDanski Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) We cleared it last week, but got stuck with bug attempt after bug attempt this week. The bug we are seeing is that usually 2-3x during the fight he will immediately blue cross upon short jumping after rock phase, sometimes not even to a person. He repeatedly did rocks, jump to a random location and immediately started blue cross, even before people were up from the knock-back. He would often not even jump to a person, just jump randomly to the far end of the room, or perhaps to the tank immediately and start the cross upon landing. The blue cross itself was functioning fine on attempts where he jumped, then ran towards the tank and then did the cross. We had no issue with that. It was only the short random jump, followed immediately by cross that f'd us good, and it seemed to happen at least 1-2x per attempt, never quite giving us a chance to complete the mechanic. It was quite noticeable when his cross went off normal and/or he didn't jump properly. TL:DR - BW please take a look into what actually triggers his cross mechanic. There is something causing it to go off early 1-2 in 5 times. Edited December 20, 2014 by TheDanski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocanon Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 That is a very good point. We tried that on SM too and it worked flawlessly. If only people can pick the instant cross mechanic "how to avoid" from earlier pages they should now be fine. You tried that in 16 or 8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAdmiral Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 We experienced both "insta crossses" , crosses where he never turned back to the tank (and messed up to angle or distance to run), and crosses that seemed like they should have worked but didn't. INSTA CROSSES We found this happened when the tank had their back against the wall, and was not knocked back very far after the knockback. The boss would then do a teeny knockback on the tank and then instantly cast a cross (giving the DPS and heals little to no time to run into it from their rocks). SOLUTION: Tank needs to tank him in the middle of the room instead of against the wall. They must leave space behind them to be knocked back. They must allow themselves to be knocked back (no rock, no hold the link/hydraulics). This should allow the boss to "jump" to someone, then slowly walk back to the tank, then cast the cross. This worked 90% of the time except randomly when he would refuse to jump away. It helped if the tank called out "pushed" then "jumped" then "coming back" so DPS knew if it was gunna be instant cast or not. NOT RETURNING TO TANK The boss will knock back the tank, jump to another character, then not jump/turn back. It often causes the cross to be in a weird location or to be rotated badly. SOLUTION: Not 100% sure on this one, but try and make sure the DPS are far away from the tank after the knockback. Didn't happen often after solution above. CROSS IS SILLY Sometimes it looks like the cross is ok and filled correctly but it just turns red. SOLUTION: I dunno man. Couldn't see a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 We experienced both "insta crossses" , crosses where he never turned back to the tank (and messed up to angle or distance to run), and crosses that seemed like they should have worked but didn't. INSTA CROSSES We found this happened when the tank had their back against the wall, and was not knocked back very far after the knockback. The boss would then do a teeny knockback on the tank and then instantly cast a cross (giving the DPS and heals little to no time to run into it from their rocks). SOLUTION: Tank needs to tank him in the middle of the room instead of against the wall. They must leave space behind them to be knocked back. They must allow themselves to be knocked back (no rock, no hold the link/hydraulics). This should allow the boss to "jump" to someone, then slowly walk back to the tank, then cast the cross. This worked 90% of the time except randomly when he would refuse to jump away. It helped if the tank called out "pushed" then "jumped" then "coming back" so DPS knew if it was gunna be instant cast or not. NOT RETURNING TO TANK The boss will knock back the tank, jump to another character, then not jump/turn back. It often causes the cross to be in a weird location or to be rotated badly. SOLUTION: Not 100% sure on this one, but try and make sure the DPS are far away from the tank after the knockback. Didn't happen often after solution above. CROSS IS SILLY Sometimes it looks like the cross is ok and filled correctly but it just turns red. SOLUTION: I dunno man. Couldn't see a pattern. Not Returning to Tank: I could be wrong, but what I've noticed with this one is it has 2 most common causes. One, the person the boss leaps to is too close to where the tank was knocked back. The solution to that is to make sure the whole raid besides the tank moves together, and of course gets knocked in a different direction than the tank. The other is if the DPS the boss jumps to has a cooldown popped that prevents stuns/kb's (Hydraulic/Entrench etc). So make sure your DPS do not pop any of these until AFTER the boss has jumped to one of them and is walking back to the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardimuer Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I cleared this yesterday and had the same issues of everyone else. The following were the only tips that seemed to make a difference: - Have the tank go to a rock on the opposite side of the boss from the rest of the party. - If possible, the tank should try to move to the center of the room after the knockback so that the cross is not close to a wall. This seems to make the position of the cross more reliable, though I don't know why. - Don't use any ability that grants immunity to the leap until after the boss has leaped. This includes more than Hydraulic Overides (we didn't have any bounty hunters in the party). Possible bad skills: Evasion on Operatives, Deflection on Assassins (if speced into), Force Speed on Assassins and Sorcs (if speced into), Operative/Sniper roll, etc. - Always jump when you get in position. - If you have previously had problems with the cross showing in the wrong place for you, make sure you always stand with the people on your side even if they look like they are out of the cross. Things that didn't work for us: One tip said not to run through other arms of the cross while getting into position. On the attempt when we got no bugged crosses, lots of people ran through other arms, so I don't think this tip has any effect as long as everyone jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAdmiral Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Yep, we also ran through the arms by accident after trying to follow that tip, and that was not causing any problems. Green! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forren-Midosea Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The fight is so wonky right now it's not even funny. However, we experimented little on HM and following worked: 1) No hydraulics/hold the line from main tank (or else instant cross). 2) MT finding a rock further away from the raid. 3) Move out from the cross if it spawned on you. 4) Do not go through middle of the cross. 5) If possible, do not clip the cross before getting to your place 6) Jump when you get to your place 7) Rotate people with suitable defensive cds on front of the cross (mt going to back then) 8) Aoe taunt with appr. utility before the cross finishes (with everyone close enough on their places for effect) cool that it worked for you but this is damn STORY MODE. Not Nim... amount of dmg this boss generates is beyond chilled casual runs (story mode right? hard is for those that want to raid more often with tighter butt chicks), if people are new to this game and new to raiding and would have to do all that stuff, its a no go for them, Lag is not helping either, i was doing sm pug today, we had fairly good group and experienced stuff like red cross when everyone is on his place for 2s and ofc kills and huge amount of dmg, and we had red crosses when someone failed to stand in his place and took 0 dmg, ya, 0 ZERO, or green cross with sick dmg... WHAT IS THIS? Bug fest? If i want to see bugs, i will google some or go out in summer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpickard Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Going on three weeks now without a damn word from Bioware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounders_Fan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Going on three weeks now without a damn word from Bioware... and they have previously given you a reason to expect them to comment in a timely manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepthen Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) This picture sums up the issue: http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag222/Nepthen/lurker_zps196ea142.jpg Three of us on one side had different crosses. We have other pictures where others in the group had different crosses as well. So bunching up on each other only works if you pick the "right" person to bunch up on... but how does one determine that? This fight worked just fine during Early Access week, then they patched something the following week and it all went to hell. It needs to be addressed... if they can't fix it because their servers are garbage, that's not our fault. If they can't fix it right now, then they should tremendously reduce the dmg from failing it so that groups can actually progress beyond the lurker when they do it "right" or at least "right " according to their screen. Edited December 29, 2014 by Nepthen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBR_QuorTek Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) You got to let the underlurker come to you so you do not have to run to it across the entire map is the solution. But him being bugged in other ways like a correct cross setup and fails with a red/green cross and more which is not really funny. Healing is ok as long as the group does insist on following a pattern for making it possible to have people being hit with constant aoe heals. Edited December 29, 2014 by SBR_QuorTek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardimuer Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 This picture sums up the issue: http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag222/Nepthen/lurker_zps196ea142.jpg Three of us on one side had different crosses. We have other pictures where others in the group had different crosses as well. So bunching up on each other only works if you pick the "right" person to bunch up on... but how does one determine that? This fight worked just fine during Early Access week, then they patched something the following week and it all went to hell. It needs to be addressed... if they can't fix it because their servers are garbage, that's not our fault. If they can't fix it right now, then they should tremendously reduce the dmg from failing it so that groups can actually progress beyond the lurker when they do it "right" or at least "right " according to their screen. In my experience (and others have mentioned the same), the main tank always sees the correct/real cross placement. Have the tank watch the group and call out who is wrong during the cross channel. When I cleared this last time my group had issues with 2 people who sometimes saw the cross wrong, but as long as we followed the positioning tips mentioned previously we were able to call it out and correct in time. I agree that BioWare needs to fix this asap, but realistically speaking I expect it will take them a month at least due to holiday downtime. In the meantime, we just have to suck it up and treat this like an extra mechanic to overcome. My group and others have been able to clear this consistently as long as we execute all the little extra things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimkaLloret Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No issues in 8M. Cross always green, exception if the player he leaps to is close. Then just a faster cross/ devastation. Rest is fine. 16M still bugged tho. We tried different distributions with group formed of experienced raiders. Always red. Got it green few times, but still like 3-4 one shoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBR_QuorTek Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 No issues in 8M. Cross always green, exception if the player he leaps to is close. Then just a faster cross/ devastation. Rest is fine. 16M still bugged tho. We tried different distributions with group formed of experienced raiders. Always red. Got it green few times, but still like 3-4 one shoted. Actually experienced in 8man as well here with the cross bugging out, but showing both green + red in one, with the red winning causing even, well at least for me a heavy burden heal over to save people or 2-3 dying depending on if getting defensive CDs off. So it is not just a 16man issue, in 8man it happen as well, and certainly was not in a pug group. With myself and the other healer though we have no issues keeping people alive through the massive AOE event though, but we are both experienced HM and higher healers, a pug group would be terminated over and over again with solely the AOE keeping on hammering having probably combined 7 to 8K efficient AOE healing going on to keep people safe through it no problem keeping people between 85 to 100% through that. Scoundrel + sage btw during that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prototypemind Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 My first run through it last week there was no issue at all. Everyone in the group was shocked. Then we had glitches in some form or another, 99% of the time with the cross, every pull until we finally downed him, though this was with only myself as DPS still up and one healer finishing off the remaining two adds, as many died with the final cross. The mechanic seems to work best if the boss has to leap to the MT, but even then it's iffy. A very buggy fight even in 8M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro-Protagonist Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 This is the strategy that worked for us in 8M with 5 DPS, 1 tank. Underlurker is tanked near wall to the right of the area entrance. DPS/healers group up for heals where the add closest to the entrance usually spawns. DPS/heal group moves towards other adds through this phase (left side of entrance). When rocks drop, DPS/heals group behind rock on the left side of the room (again, with respect to the entrance). Our main tank stays out and does not hide behind rock. DPS/heal group is very far away from boss and tank during knockback. After knockboack, boss reliably jumps to DPS/heal group and then lumbers across the entire length of the room, giving us ample time to get into left/right groups. No knockback defense CD's were used before knockback, only after knockback to ensure that group gets back to other side of room. We got a leap every time and a green cross every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) This is the strategy that worked for us in 8M with 5 DPS, 1 tank. Underlurker is tanked near wall to the right of the area entrance. DPS/healers group up for heals where the add closest to the entrance usually spawns. DPS/heal group moves towards other adds through this phase (left side of entrance). When rocks drop, DPS/heals group behind rock on the left side of the room (again, with respect to the entrance). Our main tank stays out and does not hide behind rock. DPS/heal group is very far away from boss and tank during knockback. After knockboack, boss reliably jumps to DPS/heal group and then lumbers across the entire length of the room, giving us ample time to get into left/right groups. No knockback defense CD's were used before knockback, only after knockback to ensure that group gets back to other side of room. We got a leap every time and a green cross every time. How did u determine who would take the place of the 2nd tank during cross having 5 DPS? Edited December 30, 2014 by Volcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastirkal Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 How did u determine who would take the place of the 2nd tank during cross having 5 DPS? You have a dps act as the other "tank". Wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) You have a dps act as the other "tank". Wut? No kiddin huh? If you didn't guess I'm looking for a deeper analysis of the fight mechanics. I'm more interested in how the fight is programmed to determine which roles are standing in their correct locations. Is it based on threat levels? Or perhaps stance/cell? Maybe based on your spec? If just anyone can stand in the off tank's position then what is preventing healers from standing together in a (2 heals + 1 dps)/( 3 dps) configuration? Trying to understanding WHY may help with the issues people have been experiencing with failing the cross. Edited December 30, 2014 by Volcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastirkal Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) No kiddin huh? If you didn't guess I'm looking for a deeper analysis of the fight mechanics. I'm more interested in how the fight is programmed to determine which roles are standing in their correct locations. Is it based on threat levels? Or perhaps stance/cell? Maybe based on your spec? If just anyone can stand in the off tank's position then what is preventing healers from standing together in a (2 heals + 1 dps)/( 3 dps) configuration? Trying to understanding WHY may help with the issues people have been experiencing with failing the cross. Anyone can stand in the back cross, you can have two healers and one dps on one side and three dps on the other side. The fight is buggy, but it's still a 1 3 3 1 configuration. The main tank will always be in front and that's the only rule. Edited December 30, 2014 by mastirkal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro-Protagonist Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 How did u determine who would take the place of the 2nd tank during cross having 5 DPS? We had a Gunslinger take the other tank spot, and got a green cross every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TcMEAT Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) You can see a cast bug pretty hard in this video at 4 mins 20 seconds he starts the cross then stops then it just goes out. PVE Swtor Hard Mode Temple of Sacrifice The Unde…: Edited December 31, 2014 by TcMEAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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