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Who is the real Sith'ari?

Slowpokeking

By Slowpokeking
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Kaedusz

Kaedusz

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I ask again,what happens when you compare Admiral Ackbar to Grand Moff Kilran?

 

The clone wars t.v. series and the current movies were created back when the rules of Canon included them.

This is immaterial.

 

The levels of Canon are no longer applicable. Disney has changed everything up. Again, if you want to go by the rules of the new Canon you cannot compare Exar Kun to Palpatine because Exar Kun doesn't exist in Disney's Canon.

You can even compare Commander Shepard to the Zerg Overmind.What new kind of fallaciousness is this?

What have these forums being doings all this time? :rak_grin:

 

The two types separate when we get to the new Disney Material.

Not that this sentence make any logical sense, but i will ask just in case.Why?

 

You are still arguing "My non-canon is more valid than your non-canon." at which point I ask again. Do you see what your non-canon has with my non-canon? It starts with the word "non."

This is not a matter of ''mine'' and ''yours''. I didn't know you own the post ep 6 or pre Bane EU.

 

You also keep telling me my opinion is ridiculous yet you're the only person here that finds it so. No one agrees with you. Are you the only person on these entire forums, any star wars forums, that "Gets it."?

You continue to evoke Argumentum ad populum which by itself is declaring defeat,but also it's basic premise is wrong.

Edited by Kaedusz
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Rhyltran

Rhyltran

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Not that this sentence make any logical sense, but i will ask just in case.Why?

 

 

You continue to evoke Argumentum ad populum which by itself is declaring defeat,but also it's basic premise is wrong.

 

No, I'm not arguing that I'm right because most people believe it. Rather I'm saying you're the only one who thinks this. This would be Argumentum ad Populum if I stated "1200 people believe me and 300 don't." but this is a case where literally you are the only one I've seen that has this attitude.

 

To answer your question why? I answered it already. It diverges because Disney Canon is Disney Canon. Legends is Legends. Legends is now set in stone. You cannot add to Legends unless they decide to release new material for legends. If they release post ROTJ Legends material I assure you it won't take the new movies into consideration.

 

Your final statement takes what I said too literally. I'm not saying either of us own anything. You talk about Pre Bane as being more valid than post ROTJ Legends. It isn't. Not in my eyes. Not in Disney's eyes. To Disney Legends is Legends. Period. I don't see how you can argue this. Disney claimed EVERYTHING is legends until they decide it isn't. To disney ANYTHING that is under the legends moniker is not canon.

 

By arguing Pre Bane is more valid than post ROTJ legends you are essentially saying "Non Canon A is more Canon than Non Canon B." Non-Canon is Non-Canon. I don't see how hard this is to grasp. You realize that people that only care about the movies/new disney canon can look at both of us and tell us that they don't care about Dark Empire Sidious because he's not Canon? Then look at you and tell you they don't care about Pre-Bane because nothing there is Canon either? You know that they'd technically be right?

 

As it stands this game isn't even Canon according to Disney.

 

P.S. There is no Pre-Bane EU. There is Pre-Bane Legends. The EU was destroyed by Disney. There will be a new EU and new books that fall in line with the new movies/established movies.

Edited by Rhyltran
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Kaedusz

Kaedusz

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No, I'm not arguing that I'm right because most people believe it. Rather I'm saying you're the only one who thinks this. This would be Argumentum ad Populum if I stated "1200 people believe me and 300 don't." but this is a case where literally you are the only one I've seen that has this attitude.

I am not sure from where you draw the conclusion that i am the only person who ever had this opinion,having in mind that this is the first time i have seen in many forums this subject being talked about.

I have mentioned it just barely,months ago to which the response was ,until the movies are actually out we will continue considering post ep 6 ''Legends'' in comparison of characters ,like Sidious,hence not fully disagreeing with me.

Also apparently you don't know what argumentum ad populum is.300 or 1 or 1 milion ,doesn't matter.It is still a fallacious non-valid argument.By using it you declare that you are out of arguments and in defeat.

To answer your question why? I answered it already. It diverges because Disney Canon is Disney Canon. Legends is Legends. Legends is now set in stone. You cannot add to Legends unless they decide to release new material for legends. If they release post ROTJ Legends material I assure you it won't take the new movies into consideration.

This adds nothing new to the discussion.My response to it is why are you forbidden from comparing Legend character with a Canon character.

 

 

Your final statement takes what I said too literally.

.. you don't say

 

I'm not saying either of us own anything. You talk about Pre Bane as being more valid than post ROTJ Legends. It isn't. Not in my eyes. Not in Disney's eyes. To Disney Legends is Legends. Period. I don't see how you can argue this. Disney claimed EVERYTHING is legends until they decide it isn't. To disney ANYTHING that is under the legends moniker is not canon.

I did not say it is more valid by itself.I said It in the context in which canon and legends exist at the same time,in which case ... details on the previous page.Your response was you can't compare Legends characters to Canon characters ,which is hilarity and your logical dead end.

Are you going to invade every thread on these forums and start spamming in capital letters, ''you are forbidden from comparing these characters''. :rak_grin:

By arguing Pre Bane is more valid than post ROTJ legends you are essentially saying "Non Canon A is more Canon than Non Canon B." Non-Canon is Non-Canon. I don't see how hard this is to grasp. You realize that people that only care about the movies/new disney canon can look at both of us and tell us that they don't care about Dark Empire Sidious because he's not Canon? Then look at you and tell you they don't care about Pre-Bane because nothing there is Canon either? You know that they'd technically be right?

Well all of this is immaterial and as i said above, i didn't say one is objectively more canon than the other.

Edited by Kaedusz
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Rhyltran

Rhyltran

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Posted

 

This adds nothing new to the discussion.My response to it is why are you forbidden from comparing Legend character with a Canon character.

 

Why? Because the rules of Canon have changed. Why would we compare a Disney Canon character with a Legends character? In Disney's eyes Legend is Non-Canon. Thus Legends characters DO NOT EXIST in their Canon. So why would we compare a character who doesn't exist? Legends does not exist along side Disney Canon anymore. It's not like the old rules of Canon. Legends is not Canon until it's contradicted. Legends is simply not Canon. Legends does flow with itself however. Legends became it's own separate thing entirely once Disney made a distinction between the two.

 

When Episode 7 comes out we can still discuss Palpatine's abilities and compare it to characters Pre-Bane. Because we will be comparing a Legends character with other Legends Characters. Or..

 

Non-Canon character with a Non-Canon character if you will. Comparing a Non Canon character with a Canon character is pointless. It's like "Who would win? Batman or Han Solo?"

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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The clone bodies is one thing, he never had a need for that until Vader killed him so you could say that might be fair game. But stuff like being able to destroy entire planets and fleets with just his force powers? Why would he bother spending money on the Death Stars if he could just do that himself? His direct combat abilities are limited to what is displayed in the top tier canon and anything exceeding them is non-canon.

 

Again, should this be done for all characters that appear in the movies? Most, if not all, of their Legends feats are more powerful than what is shown in the movies.

Edited by Aurbere
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dcaleb

dcaleb

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Again, should this be done for all characters that appear in the movies? Most, if not all, of their Legends feats are more powerful than what is shown in the movies.

 

I'd give Luke a bit of a pass because he only had like five minutes of training in the movies and there is no way that was enough to bring out his full potential.

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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I'd give Luke a bit of a pass because he only had like five minutes of training in the movies and there is no way that was enough to bring out his full potential.

 

I'm not just talking about Luke. I'm referring to Vader, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace Windu, and others.

 

If you wish to ignore Sidious' showings outside of the movies, then you must do the same to everyone else. Dark Empire, and everything that isn't cleared by Disney, falls under Legends canon. It is just as canon as Tales of the Jedi or KOTOR. That is to say: not at all. Legends canon is separate from actual canon now. Writers can draw from the Legends canon if they want, but as far as Disney is concerned, it doesn't exist. And that applies to everything, not just post-ROTJ.

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dcaleb

dcaleb

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Well, that's just sad. So no feats outside of the movies count for you, huh?

 

Most of the Star Wars EU works I have partaken of in which Yoda, Obi-wan, Vader, Palpatine, etc appeared didn't have them doing things much more impressive then they did in the movies and TCW tv show. The only exception was The Force Unleashed and them going at it with some guy that can pluck Star Destroyer's from orbit with his mind.

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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Most of the Star Wars EU works I have partaken of in which Yoda, Obi-wan, Vader, Palpatine, etc appeared didn't have them doing things much more impressive then they did in the movies and TCW tv show. The only exception was The Force Unleashed and them going at it with some guy that can pluck Star Destroyer's from orbit with his mind.

 

They actually are much more impressive in the EU than they are in TCW and the movies. Well, most of them are.

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t-darko

t-darko

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They actually are much more impressive in the EU than they are in TCW and the movies. Well, most of them are.

 

Not wanting to rain on anyones parade but, as we are splitting hairs. as I know your knowledge to be countless Master Aurbere;

 

First - is the term 'Sith'ari' Legend(all EU, on any canon level, not confirmed by the Disney Purge) OR New Canon?

Please, if you're able, answer with a reference.

 

Secondly - To, in any way, 'resolve' the OPs question we must first have an answer on my first question.

 

Thirdly - On the answer of the first question, we decide which 'realm' the OPs question resides with in, thus disqualifies any claims of 'fact' from any other 'realm' than the one answered on my first question!

 

So in conclusion, to give the OP any kind of 'fair' answer we need to split the answer, and discussion, in two parts;

 

1) What would the answer be according to Legend(all EU, on any canon level, not confirmed by the Disney Purge)?

 

2) What would be the answer be according to New Canon(post confirmed Disney Purge lore)?

Edited by t-darko
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Aurbere

Aurbere

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Not wanting to rain on anyones parade but, as we are splitting hairs. as I know your knowledge to be countless Master Aurbere;

 

First - is the term 'Sith'ari' Legend(all EU, on any canon level, not confirmed by the Disney Purge) OR New Canon?

Please, if you're able, answer with a reference.

 

Secondly - To, in any way, 'resolve' the OPs question we must first have an answer on my first question.

 

Thirdly - On the answer of the first question, we decide which 'realm' the OPs question resides with in, thus disqualifies any claims of 'fact' from any other 'realm' than the one answered on my first question!

 

So in conclusion, to give the OP any kind of 'fair' answer we need to split the answer, and discussion, in two parts;

 

1) What would the answer be according to Legend(all EU, on any canon level, not confirmed by the Disney Purge)?

 

2) What would be the answer be according to New Canon(post confirmed Disney Purge lore)?

 

Well, as far as I am aware, the term Sith'Ari is not in the new canon, so we would have to go by Legends canon here.

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Aurbere

Aurbere

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Well to be fair Aurbere, the movie novels(which are still canon with the movies) have the characters being pretty great too.

 

Of course, but I think that the EU had relatively more impressive abilities shown by the characters in the movies. Especially Obi-Wan and Anakin.

 

Still, how many people read the novels for the movies? :p

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Wolfninjajedi

Wolfninjajedi

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Of course, but I think that the EU had relatively more impressive abilities shown by the characters in the movies. Especially Obi-Wan and Anakin.

 

Still, how many people read the novels for the movies? :p

 

How many people read the EU? :p

 

But yeah, they of course do cause they have more appearances and the like throughout.

 

Still though, even going by just movies, the characters are still pretty good.

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Leaveshill

Leaveshill

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The "real" sith'ari according to "destroying the sith" - Bane.

The "perfect" sith - Sidious. He conquered the galaxy, like no other had done before him. He was outdone by his apprentice's treason (which is usual in the Rule of the two), but his weakness was probably that he shouldn't have turned his back on Vader at that moment.

He killed his master in his sleep, yes. But isn't that a fair murder? The master was foolish to sleep unprotected, he should've remember to beware of the apprentice. I'm sure someone could beat Sidious in a duel or two but that's not relevant as they couldn't manage his feats, and his intelligence and cunning surpasses all by miles.

So, the perfect sith - Sidious, because he's the one that has everything and is capable of using all he got, unlike most before him.

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