Eureka? A GbtF/UR Fix

[waterboytkd]

So we all know the ability, as it is right now, is pretty bad. The only situation in which it is "good" is when that 4 seconds of not dying allows us to kill the last of the enemies, thereby exiting combat, and start healing up. Other than that, it's just 4 more seconds of damage output and then we die.

 

The most obvious fix suggested has been to move the health loss back to activation, rather than at end of duration. Personally, I like that one.

 

There are, however, some who feel that that particular version interacts too well with healers.

 

With the health loss up front, and a healer at your back, it's a H2F ability. I don't see the issue, as many other classes have something similar, but that's the concern, I guess.

 

So what about the following?

 

Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage: When you activate this ability, for the next 4 seconds, your health cannot fall below 1.

 

This keeps its function as a "I survive focus fire for some amount of time" and "I live long enough to kill you" ability. It allows it to interact with healers, since it doesn't consume any hp at the end of duration. BUT, it isn't a H2F with a healer because it wouldn't prevent incoming damage that doesn't kill you.

 

As a Sent/Mara, it isn't completely faceroll to use, as the you'd want to still time that medpac for the very end of the duration (wouldn't want to pop it right away, just to lose that life to incoming damage). Healers, though, could still pour healing into you to bring you back out of the danger zone. Really, it's interaction with healers is more of a "you got 4 seconds to finish what you're doing and save me" nature than a "okay, bring me back to full" nature.

 

As for countering it, the same counter for the current implementation of GbtF/UR applies: just lob a stun at the Sent/Mara before the ability expires, so they can't medpac, and kill them.

 

It was just something that popped in my head while driving. I'd still prefer just moving the health loss up front, but, I think this would be better than what we have now. Maybe, since it still doesn't stop us from getting pushed down to 1 health, it could also give CC protection, like Unstoppable/Unremitting.

 

Just a thought.

[ishbindeinvater]

The class isn't on the edge of OP so we don't need to be THAT careful when buffing the class.

 

UR was never OP, it was just quite good (not better than enraged defense or klto overload) and the other classes weren't that good. Now they buffed up other classes so much, they can without any problem bring UR back to what it was, and the class would still be worse than for example PT or hatred sin.

 

(We have no movement skill, and I won't count predation utility as such, because what you sacrifice for not being immune, but only clean the root, is a lot of damage)

Edited December 15, 2014 by ishbindeinvater

[waterboytkd]

The class isn't on the edge of OP so we don't need to be THAT careful when buffing the class.

 

UR was never OP, it was just quite good (not better than enraged defense or klto overload) and the other classes weren't that good. Now they buffed up other classes so much, they can without any problem bring UR back to what it was, and the class would still be worse than for example PT or hatred sin.

 

(We have no movement skill, and I won't count predation utility as such, because what you sacrifice for not being immune, but only clean the root, is a lot of damage)

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said.

[Ailaria]

I don't see any valid reason to not just move the health loss to the start of the effect where it belongs, but as a PvE player I must say that your suggestion is significantly worse from my point-of-view than the way it currently works. Also, as a PvP healer I have to say that I'd hate that version compared to the current one.

 

No offense intended of course, I just don't think that's a good fix for it; in my opinion it would only make an already broken skill even worse. If they're so worried about its H2F potential then they could just move the health loss up front and add a healing debuff for the effect's duration (say, 50% reduction which could be reduced by one of the existing GbtF/UR utilities, or something like that).

 

Then again, I seem to recall that sorcerers can just heal to full, so I don't see the problem with the old UR.

[The_X]

Heal to full and make them pay!! Marauders won't be fixed anytime soon, if ever. The devs have yet to reply to any of the dozen posts with hundreds of replies. They either don't care or got destroyed by marauders in PVP. Maybe they should L2P.

[Atlanis]

Heal to full and make them pay!! Marauders won't be fixed anytime soon, if ever. The devs have yet to reply to any of the dozen posts with hundreds of replies. They either don't care or got destroyed by marauders in PVP. Maybe they should L2P.

 

Signed, wasn´t the guy who concepted Sents/Mara the one who left to go brew bear?

[HanSollo]

Just make it usable while stunned.

 

But since that will never happen as that would make it so that we would last longer then 2 secs in active combat in PvP.

 

Let's make an actual request that will never happen.

 

I want GbtF to fully heal me and be put on a one minute cool down *FOCUSED DEFENSE* because not taking damage for 4 seconds is the same as healing 45k hp

 

It would take two Combat Sents with BiS gear to even come close to that damage in that amount of time, and they still wouldn't touch it.

Edited December 16, 2014 by HanSollo

[monster_cody]

i will repost what i said before and no ifs or buts no argument what so ever this is what bioware needs to do period

 

in my opinion undying rage needs to be back to what it was before, health cost upfront when activating the ability and being able to get healed period. i dont even use the ability anymore cause it sucks makes my healer if i have one on my side go ape cause my hp plummeted.

 

to this day its still the fault of all the whiners and rage spec that had the talent to reduce the cooldown and the amount of hp it could reduce, that we marauders/sentinels have such a joke ability while sorcerers have force barrier plus enduring bastion and madness spec, pt have kolto overload with added damage reduction and an insane burst spec, assasins now have deflection with 12 secs of immunity, stealth and shroud and hatred spec and jugs have a better selfheal then specced healers its nuts *i wont touch commando's/merc/snipers/gunslingers cause they have it rough aswell*

 

all bioware had to do was just taking the talents out of rage tree and fixed but oooh noo double nerf survive ability of all 3 specs of marauders bah i feel more hatred *pun intended* towards bioware for making such decisions

 

my take on the matter

[FerrixWGW]

Fix is simple, reset back to its original form. Several other classes have been given this ability ours was nerfed.

[Vodrin]

The class isn't on the edge of OP so we don't need to be THAT careful when buffing the class.

 

UR was never OP, it was just quite good (not better than enraged defense or klto overload) and the other classes weren't that good. Now they buffed up other classes so much, they can without any problem bring UR back to what it was, and the class would still be worse than for example PT or hatred sin.

 

(We have no movement skill, and I won't count predation utility as such, because what you sacrifice for not being immune, but only clean the root, is a lot of damage)

 

UR was pretty OP back in the old days. I could start a 1v1 at 20% health, pop it, pop beserk and a healthpack and be back to full health by the end of the duration and win the 1v1 easily. The changes in set bonus and self healing for annihilation mean it would no longer be OP, but I do not think the dev's will role back the change just the same. Only way we are going to see an improvement in the cooldown is if it is changed. Developer egos will not allow anything else.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Vodrin

[chosonman]

Just remove it altogether and give us something else like ED... Anything would be an improvement over this gimped skills. I don't even use it half the time because it's either on cooldown or not at all because I know I'm pretty much dead anyways because 4 seconds +1/2 life leach is pretty much a death sentence. Edited December 17, 2014 by chosonman

[Vodrin]

Just remove it altogether and give us something else like ED... Anything would be an improvement over this gimped skills. I don't even use it half the time because it's either on cooldown or not at all because I know I'm pretty much dead anyways because 4 seconds +1/2 life leach is pretty much a death sentence.

 

I really think it can be made into something useful without just reverting it back to it's old form. I've suggested previously dropping the duration to 3 seconds, removing the health penalty entirely, and making it only able to activate below 35% health. I'm not sure you could keep the utility buffing duration, but it certainly would be worth testing and would make the skill more useful than the current live version.

[Ailaria]

Just remove it altogether and give us something else like ED... Anything would be an improvement over this gimped skills. I don't even use it half the time because it's either on cooldown or not at all because I know I'm pretty much dead anyways because 4 seconds +1/2 life leach is pretty much a death sentence.

 

This made me laugh so hard. No offense, of course, it's just funny to see someone complain about how he "doesn't even use it half the time because it's on cooldown". I don't use Merciless Slash three quarters of the time either, because it's on cooldown.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

GbtF/UR should be :

 

"Summon the Force to protect you for 4 seconds, reducing by 99% all damage taken and by 50% all healing received during the effect. Consumes 50% of your current health when activated."

 

Everybody would be happy with this I guess.

 

Then improve, move or rework our utilities, because a lot of things are missing or underpowered compared to other classes.

Edited December 18, 2014 by DarkNecroCrusher

[Ailaria]

GbtF/UR should be :

 

"Summon the Force to protect you for 4 seconds, reducing by 99% all damage taken and by 50% all healing received during the effect. Consumes 50% of your current health when activated."

 

That's exactly what I suggested one page back.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

That's exactly what I suggested one page back.

 

Haha, didn't see it ^^

 

Repost it :

 

"Summon the Force to protect you for 4 seconds, reducing by 99% all damage taken and by 50% all healing received during the effect. Consumes 50% of your current health when activated."

 

Like this it fits in 2 lines and it's clearer for everyone (even the devs)

Edited December 18, 2014 by DarkNecroCrusher

[DarkNecroCrusher]

Bump

 

This DCD has to be reworked, players should comment to give their thoughts.

[Tonev]

Bump

 

This DCD has to be reworked, players should comment to give their thoughts.

I agree 100%.

 

Also, why do we constantly still have the mindset of loosing health? How about we don't lose no health, have CC immunity a DR of 75%, immunity against roots, and dots for 7 seconds...., hell how about 8 seconds why short change our class, right?

 

I have 42k health and that **** gets burned in an eyeblink by Sorcs and Sins, All I can do is run if I see a Jug or Guardian coming my way solo.

 

Again, don't take away from this class as the devs have stripped us but naked now, "nothng else to give.".

Edited December 26, 2014 by Tonev

[BDragonSith]

I agree 100%.

 

Also, why do we constantly still have the mindset of loosing health? How about we don't lose no health, have CC immunity a DR of 75%, immunity against roots, and dots for 7 seconds...., hell how about 8 seconds why short change our class, right?

 

I have 42k health and that **** gets burned in an eyeblink by Sorcs and Sins, All I can do is run if I see a Jug or Guardian coming my way solo.

 

Again, don't take away from this class as the devs have stripped us but naked now, "nothng else to give.".

 

That's what I've been thinking. I unlocked Undying Rage a while ago and have NEVER used it. It's not even in my quickbars. What's 4 seconds of life going to do if I die at the end of it? That's enough time to maybe use Ravage if there's no lag. Take away the health loss and it might even be useful for PvE. As far, everyone's been talking from a PvP standpoint, but for PvE, its pretty useless too.

[calamatiesend]

Haha, didn't see it ^^

 

Repost it :

 

"Summon the Force to protect you for 4 seconds, reducing by 99% all damage taken and by 50% all healing received during the effect. Consumes 50% of your current health when activated."

 

Like this it fits in 2 lines and it's clearer for everyone (even the devs)

 

Why have a healing debuff at all? you can still be stunned/rendered useless for most of its duration. It should just be reverted to its old self. The game has changed, it will not be OP especially considering our difficulty doing decent dps.

[Ailaria]

That's what I've been thinking. I unlocked Undying Rage a while ago and have NEVER used it. It's not even in my quickbars. What's 4 seconds of life going to do if I die at the end of it? That's enough time to maybe use Ravage if there's no lag. Take away the health loss and it might even be useful for PvE. As far, everyone's been talking from a PvP standpoint, but for PvE, its pretty useless too.

 

Undying Rage is a life-saver in ops and can also greatly reduce the healing you need even with its 50% health loss. UR trivializes plenty of mechanics, such as orbs back in NiM Brontes. Calling UR useless in PvE is just plain silly, almost as silly as not having it on your bars. Having said that, UR does of course need to be reworked, all I'm saying is that it's far from useless in its current state.