Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

[MarcoMontana]

Sins are broken we ALL concur here! I just think Sorcerers should have to spec either DPS / Healing / Utility , they shouldn't get all 3 plus an immunity for free...

 

DPS:

 

Should be Highest dps possible for Sorc everything boosted but low survival less cc's/

 

Healing:

 

Should be low DPS, High Healing, High survival, decent CC's

 

Utility:

 

Should be decent DPS, Some good CC's, high Survival.

 

Right now they can get almost all 3 of those in 1 spec...

[nrevox]

Sins are broken we ALL concur here! I just think Sorcerers should have to spec either DPS / Healing / Utility , they shouldn't get all 3 plus an immunity for free...

 

DPS:

 

Should be Highest dps possible for Sorc everything boosted but low survival less cc's/

 

Healing:

 

Should be low DPS, High Healing, High survival, decent CC's

 

Utility:

 

Should be decent DPS, Some good CC's, high Survival.

 

Right now they can get almost all 3 of those in 1 spec...

 

sorcs should have low survival? what? lol again, every encounter with a sorc should not end with a dead sorc.

[mmmbuddah]

sorcs should have low survival? what? lol again, every encounter with a sorc should not end with a dead sorc.

sorcerers were easy mode before 3.0, now they are just pitifully ridiculously easy mode.

[nrevox]

sorcerers were easy mode before 3.0, now they are just pitifully ridiculously easy mode.

 

3.0 juggs and PT's are easy mode. Sins are easy too, plus they hit hard and make a clean vanish if they get into trouble.

[Zadtro]

Sin and Sorc both have far to much control and far to much damage, Operatives were nerf batted down for this very reason. You either have good dps but great control or great dps with low control or decent dps with low control and high survival.

 

Sin have great dps, great control, and great survival as does Sorc! Whilst other classes MUST choose between the mix weakening themselves in some capacity Sin / Sorcs do not.

 

Thus the reason they're OP.

 

 

It would be like this:

 

Race car #1 gets great engine with nitro but has poor steering and bald tires.

 

Race car #2 gets beat up smaller engine great steering, great tires, no nitro

 

Race car #3 gets great engine, great steering, nitro, and new tires. This is the Sin / Sorc class and why they are always pulling ahead as of late! Based on limitation of game mechanics the Inquisitor has been given to much.

 

BW, quick read this one!! It is what you need to see!!

[Brunner_Venda]

3.0 juggs and PT's are easy mode. Sins are easy too, plus they hit hard and make a clean vanish if they get into trouble.

 

I think what people are saying here:

 

PT's have the damage and control, but not the survivability.

 

Juggs get the survivability and damage. But they don't get the control. ypu could argue that ED is a little too much survivability.

 

Sorcs and sins get all three, along with almost zero energy management. This is why people complain.

[MarcoMontana]

I think what people are saying here:

 

PT's have the damage and control, but not the survivability.

 

Juggs get the survivability and damage. But they don't get the control. ypu could argue that ED is a little too much survivability.

 

Sorcs and sins get all three, along with almost zero energy management. This is why people complain.

 

We have a Winner!!! Monty what do we have for our contestant today?

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

I think what people are saying here:

 

PT's have the damage and control, but not the survivability.

 

Juggs get the survivability and damage. But they don't get the control. ypu could argue that ED is a little too much survivability.

 

Sorcs and sins get all three, along with almost zero energy management. This is why people complain.

 

difference is, if you focus a jugg, you are a dead weight for your team, if you focus a sorc, you force him to run away from fight, and make him losing time.

Ofc u want a sorc nerf, im fine, problem is, if u nerf sorc and don't touch jugg/sins, all sorc will re roll. If you nerf sorc, u must nerf also juggs/pt/sins, or balance will be non existant. But even doing so, there is a problem, a nerfed sorc < nerfed sin and < nerfed jugg. Now the story of this game tells us, bioware do not nerf or buff, what and when is needed, probably they will nerf to the ground a class, to buff it like god, in the next one the game before balance, needs some consistency from the ppl behind it, you cant nerf carnage for " doing too much burst", and than buff AP powertechs like 3.0 did. Hope someone will agree with me.

Edited January 14, 2015 by xX-Archangel-Xx

[MusicRider]

I think what people are saying here:

 

PT's have the damage and control, but not the survivability.

 

Juggs get the survivability and damage. But they don't get the control. ypu could argue that ED is a little too much survivability.

 

Sorcs and sins get all three, along with almost zero energy management. This is why people complain.

 

Have you tried bursting down a sorc to see how quickly he goes down if the barrier option is not available?

[JaxTheDoctor]

I agree. But it's not just Sorcs. It's sages as well the whole god bubble heal back to max stuff is stupid as crap. They can be killed but it takes very talented to do it. Also frecking Forcestorm needs a nerf or a cool down just a 2 sec t 3 sec cool down would make a world of difference. Or you could just give shadows and Assassin's the god bubble. After all we also wear light armor and are super squishy.

[Saikochoro]

I agree. But it's not just Sorcs. It's sages as well the whole god bubble heal back to max stuff is stupid as crap. They can be killed but it takes very talented to do it. Also frecking Forcestorm needs a nerf or a cool down just a 2 sec t 3 sec cool down would make a world of difference. Or you could just give shadows and Assassin's the god bubble. After all we also wear light armor and are super squishy.

 

Assassin with barrier would be much MUCH worse than sorcs. They already are better than sorcs (hatred is anyway). Under no circumstance should it even be considered than sins need something like that.

[MarcoMontana]

Have you tried bursting down a sorc to see how quickly he goes down if the barrier option is not available?

 

 

Yes if they don't use any cc, knockback, stuns, or run away sure they can be killed easily, however thats never the case! If a Sorcerer want to live they will get away, and wait out cd's and come back and beat you because they have to much utility.

[JadenYugari]

Like I said in another thread, reduce all healing received to zero while Force Barrier is active (and maybe for 5 seconds after it drops). The immunity to EVERYTHING from that ability is enough, hell it even wipes out all debuffs and a well timed use will completely negate any bursts from infinite number of DPS classes (not to mention it also allows some of their CDs to recover). They dont need the ability to drop HoT on themselves, use a god mode and come out of it at frickin 100% HP and force armor/static barrier ready to use......... Edited January 14, 2015 by JadenYugari
Typo

[AdrianDmitruk]

Like I said in another thread, reduce all healing received while Force Barrier is active (and maybe for 5 seconds after it drops). The immunity to EVERYTHING from that ability is enough, hell it even wipes out all debuffs and a well timed use will completely negate any bursts from infinite number of DPS classes (not to mention it also allows some of their CDs to recover). They dont need the ability to drop HoT on themselves, use a god mode and come out of it at frickin 100% HP and force armor/static barrier ready to use.........

 

If you want to nerf it to undying rage with a purge, then remove the self stun from it and then we'll talk...

 

It's not like we get to do anything during that immunity. And if we have to use it as a counter to burst, we probably don't have time to spend 2 globals setting up our perfect little hots to h2f during its duration before we pop it.

 

Hell before Enduring Bastion FB was practically a force taunt in that the entire enemy team would circle around you waiting for the barrier to drop so they could get their free kill. I had to save my grenade to cover an escape after using it, which prevented me from using it as a separate cooldown. That was clearly never intended by Bioware.

 

If you don't believe me, they gave stealth classes access to utilities that automatically purge on combat stealth--it's pretty clear they don't intend that you should HAVE to save one of your cooldowns just to make another cooldown useful.

 

I should clarify that I speak as a healer, not a DPS. Madness has long had...separate balance issues. Force Barrier is not one of them. (Mostly rather than spamming blatant dot immunity to cleanses they should have made it like the old lethality dot protection where you can cleanse to mitigate damage but they still get their procs and such from a reapplied dot...you know the counterplay Bioware keeps talking about.)

Edited January 14, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[JadenYugari]

If you want to nerf it to undying rage with a purge, then remove the self stun from it and then we'll talk...

 

It's not like we get to do anything during that immunity. And if we have to use it as a counter to burst, we probably don't have time to spend 2 globals setting up our perfect little hots to h2f during its duration before we pop it.

 

Hell before Enduring Bastion FB was practically a force taunt in that the entire enemy team would circle around you waiting for the barrier to drop so they could get their free kill. I had to save my grenade to cover an escape after using it, which prevented me from using it as a separate cooldown. That was clearly never intended by Bioware.

 

If you don't believe me, they gave stealth classes access to utilities that automatically purge on combat stealth--it's pretty clear they don't intend that you should HAVE to save one of your cooldowns just to make another cooldown useful.

 

I should clarify that I speak as a healer, not a DPS. Madness has long had...separate balance issues. Force Barrier is not one of them. (Mostly rather than spamming blatant dot immunity to cleanses they should have made it like the old lethality dot protection where you can cleanse to mitigate damage but they still get their procs and such from a reapplied dot...you know the counterplay Bioware keeps talking about.)

 

Undying rage doesnt protect from CCs. If a Mara drops it, I can still stun/lift/mezz/<insert CC here> them for most/all of its duration and I know that after certain duration I can return to finish him because his health wont change (unless he gets healed).

With Force Barrier I cant do that. I have to either:

1) Sit near you and wait for it to deactivate which, for the duration, makes me completely useless and non-contributing.

2) Switch my focus to someone else, allowing you to deactivate it sooner, heal yourself (effectively nullifying my efforts) and to continue healing your teammates.

 

If they at least make it so, that you have to wait out its FULL duration and cannot cancel it any sooner, or maybe make it so that it depletes your Force to zero and prevents regen while the effect is active that would be imo enough.

Edited January 14, 2015 by JadenYugari
Typo

[AdrianDmitruk]

Undying rage doesnt protect from CCs. If a Mara drops it, I can still stun/lift/mezz/<insert CC here> them for most/all of its duration and I know that after certain duration I can return to finish him because his health wont change (unless he gets healed).

With Force Barrier I cant do that. I have to either:

1) Sit near you and wait for it to deactivate which, for the duration, makes me completely useless and non-contributing.

2) Switch my focus to someone else, allowing you to deactivate it sooner, heal yourself (effectively nullifying my efforts) and to continue healing your teammates.

 

If they at least make it so, that you have to wait out its FULL duration and cannot cancel it any sooner, or maybe make it so that it depletes your Force to zero and prevents regen while the effect is active that would be imo enough.

 

You don't have to stun/mez us during Force Barrier, because we're doing that to ourselves.

 

Before Enduring Bastion, that weakness in the cooldown rendered it useless unless we had alternate forms of CC available to allow us to escape the hyenas (i.e. grenades) as we left the barrier. That is why they added Enduring Bastion.

 

Bubblestun should have remained within lightning discipline. Allowing madness (and yes, I'll admit, healers) to get it was just LOL after Bioware claimed to "destroy hybrids" with 3.0. Fixing that alone would help with a lot of cc balance issues with regard to marauders and such.

 

Yes we have balance issues (madness has been FOTM for a while now) but Force Barrier isn't one of them. You just think it is because you remember that time a sorc popped it with 12 HP left and someone healed said sorc to full. Marauders have been doing one variation or another of that since launch, and unlike us they can continue to dps and move while they're doing it.

 

I'm not complaining about UR. Marauders need it. But there were some very good reasons why Force Barrier was changed to its present state, that you probably would not understand unless you played a non-FOTM sorc spec before it was buffed with Enduring Bastion. (Remember how long corruption sorcs were told to h2f, play defensively, and make them pay for trying to kill you, while the skill level required for the class might be higher than some players were comfortable with? It wasn't just our perception problem.)

[Saikochoro]

If you want to nerf it to undying rage with a purge, then remove the self stun from it and then we'll talk...

 

It's not like we get to do anything during that immunity. And if we have to use it as a counter to burst, we probably don't have time to spend 2 globals setting up our perfect little hots to h2f during its duration before we pop it.

 

Hell before Enduring Bastion FB was practically a force taunt in that the entire enemy team would circle around you waiting for the barrier to drop so they could get their free kill. I had to save my grenade to cover an escape after using it, which prevented me from using it as a separate cooldown. That was clearly never intended by Bioware.

 

If you don't believe me, they gave stealth classes access to utilities that automatically purge on combat stealth--it's pretty clear they don't intend that you should HAVE to save one of your cooldowns just to make another cooldown useful.

 

I should clarify that I speak as a healer, not a DPS. Madness has long had...separate balance issues. Force Barrier is not one of them. (Mostly rather than spamming blatant dot immunity to cleanses they should have made it like the old lethality dot protection where you can cleanse to mitigate damage but they still get their procs and such from a reapplied dot...you know the counterplay Bioware keeps talking about.)

 

Force barrier before enduring bastion was what it should be...a pure anti focus button. Especially in an arena if your team is just letting the enemies circle you like sharks while your in barrier then you team deserves to lose. If the other enemies are circling you like Sharks while you have barrier up in an arena they also deserve to lose. Total fail on both sides. Force barrier should be an anti focus button and that it. Force barrier should stay. Enduring bastion should go. You team should learn to peel when you pop barrier and the enemies should learn to switch focus when you pop it. That is what barrier was meant to do. Just because players don't know how to play doesn't mean barrier needed to be buffed. Plus you can take a utility that will basically heal you to full during barrier/bastion. I don't think anyone should have a problem with barrier. Barrier is perfect. Enduring bastion and the healing utility is the problem. There is no reason sorcs should have a large absorption bubble, passive healing, and interrupt immunity after popping their anti focus button. That is just stupid. They turned it into an anti focus button, which will then proc tank/heal button for a few seconds.

 

It would be like having force shroud proc deflection when it ended for sins. Or having camo proc undying rage with no health cost for maras (not exactly the same but you get the idea). There is no reason barrier should have bastion. Bastion needs to go. Barrier needs to remain.

 

I agree with your take on the dot solution. They should have just given all dots the protection that lethality used to have instead of making them all uncleansable. That was just dumb.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Saikochoro

[generalstonestar]

Ha your hilarious Sorcers do have a cool down on bubbles! And there immunity ability has a cool down! And all classes can get a million+ damage you fool.

[Saikochoro]

Ha your hilarious Sorcers do have a cool down on bubbles! And there immunity ability has a cool down! And all classes can get a million+ damage you fool.

 

Who are you replying to? Or are you just replying to original post?

[Lattervane]

Force barrier before enduring bastion was what it should be...a pure anti focus button. Especially in an arena if your team is just letting the enemies circle you like sharks while your in barrier then you team deserves to lose. If the other enemies are circling you like Sharks while you have barrier up in an arena they also deserve to lose. Total fail on both sides. Force barrier should be an anti focus button and that it. Force barrier should stay. Enduring bastion should go. You team should learn to peel when you pop barrier and the enemies should learn to switch focus when you pop it. That is what barrier was meant to do. Just because players don't know how to play doesn't mean barrier needed to be buffed. Plus you can take a utility that will basically heal you to full during barrier/bastion. I don't think anyone should have a problem with barrier. Barrier is perfect. Enduring bastion and the healing utility is the problem. There is no reason sorcs should have a large absorption bubble, passive healing, and interrupt immunity after popping their anti focus button. That is just stupid. They turned it into an anti focus button, which will then proc tank/heal button for a few seconds.

 

It would be like having force shroud proc deflection when it ended for sins. Or having camo proc undying rage with no health cost for maras (not exactly the same but you get the idea). There is no reason barrier should have bastion. Bastion needs to go. Barrier needs to remain.

 

I agree with your take on the dot solution. They should have just given all dots the protection that lethality used to have instead of making them all uncleansable. That was just dumb.

 

 

First of all, the argument that Force Barrier = a self stun or self mezz is garbage. You can choose when to end Force Barrier, you cannot choose when to end a stun or mezz effect on you. Also Force Barrier provides healing, damage and interrupt immunity, and then the absorb bubble after. Not to mention while a sorc is in force barrier, all their other abilities are coming off cooldown, i.e. stuns, slows, force speed, etc.

 

 

I don't have a problem with Sorcs having an anti-focus ability like Force Barrier. My problem is 1. They didn't give similar abilities to other ranged classes like mercs/commando's and snipers/gunslingers. 2. All the extra crap the barrier does beyond being an anti-focus tool is just absurd. The 3 min cooldown may be too short, maybe 5 min would be more appropriate. In an 8v8 warzone with 3+sorcs you see force barriers constantly. It makes killing the sorcs absurdly challenging.

 

I want sorcs to have survivability. I want every class to have that. But the degree to which sorcs have it over other (specifically ranged) classes is just mind blowingly not balanced.

[Saikochoro]

The thing that makes barrier stupid is enduring bastion. Without enduring bastion barrier is just a pure anti focus button, which is what it should be. Get rid of enduring bastion and I'd be happy.

 

Oh and there is no denying that sorcs are miles ahead of the other two ranged classes. The only thing the other two classes have over sorcs is burst. Sorcs have more mobility, better survivability, and more utility. And overall they can do as much damage if not more than the other two even though they have less burst. Lightning sorcs can still burst pretty good. There is definitely imbalance between the ranged classes.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Saikochoro

[nrevox]

The thing that makes barrier stupid is enduring bastion. Without enduring bastion barrier is just a pure anti focus button, which is what it should be. Get rid of enduring bastion and I'd be happy.

 

Oh and there is no denying that sorcs are miles ahead of the other two ranged classes. The only thing the other two classes have over sorcs is burst. Sorcs have more mobility, better survivability, and more utility. And overall they can do as much damage if not more than the other two even though they have less burst. Lightning sorcs can still burst pretty good. There is definitely imbalance between the ranged classes.

 

the imbalance is between players and teams. juggs, PT's, sins, and ops are perfectly tooled to kill sorcs. it happens all day, everyday.

 

these posts are good discussion, but you will never get everyone to agree with each other. changes are always going to come. we just have to wait and see who they agree with I guess.

[AshlaBoga]

Having played a Corruption Sorc in 3.0, I can say that we're not broken. We've just been buffed to where Operatives are. Previously, Mercs and Ops were just so much better than Sorcs, now Mercs are slightly better and Ops are the same. Because we had to deal with being a weaker class, we couldn't afford to be lazy and had to push it to be competitive in ranked PvP. Now that we're on par, those of us who had to heal like crazy to get Tier 1 are reaping the benefits of all that hard work.

[Skot-]

Honestly think sins, pt and jugg are in a better place than sorc. A sorc will top damage if you leave them be and don't target them, generally once if you focus them they drop like flies. Sins, juggs and pt are a lot more durable.

 

I have no issue with sorcs in warzones. If they had to be nerfed I would say slightly decrease the damage on force storm.

 

I know the feeling of having a class stripped badly (aka operative concealment) because of baddies raging on forums.

 

Ideally I would like to see the under performing classes buffed instead of nerfing.

[Saikochoro]

Having played a Corruption Sorc in 3.0, I can say that we're not broken. We've just been buffed to where Operatives are. Previously, Mercs and Ops were just so much better than Sorcs, now Mercs are slightly better and Ops are the same. Because we had to deal with being a weaker class, we couldn't afford to be lazy and had to push it to be competitive in ranked PvP. Now that we're on par, those of us who had to heal like crazy to get Tier 1 are reaping the benefits of all that hard work.

 

I don't think the complaints are about healer sorcs. Or at least they shouldn't be. Healer sorcs got well deserved buff.