Marauder 3.0

[TheCourier-]

Bioware should make force camouflage a 30 second CD, undo the undying rage nerf, and make predation provide root immunity.

 

Those 3 buffs would make marauder viable. Viable does not mean "well, marauder does well with a team". Top ranked team compositions do not include marauders. Marauders get countered by lightning sorc, AP PT (since PTs have two stuns for gore windows), lightning sorc, madness sorc (stunbubble and root breaking force speed FTW), marksman sniper, lethality sniper, etc. Marauder gets countered by almost every class except arsenal merc (even IO merc can beat maras with electronet and mobile casts).

 

Mara needs MUCH more mobility than the class has right now, and slightly better defensives (undying rage nerf undone).

 

@ Aluvian

 

I would actually prefer a faster CD force camo instead of saber ward granting CC immunity, since saber ward has a 3 minute CD.

Edited December 13, 2014 by TheCourier-

[Belpheghor]

Bioware should make force camouflage a 30 second CD, undo the undying rage nerf, and make predation provide root immunity.

 

Those 3 buffs would make marauder viable. Viable does not mean "well, marauder does well with a team". Top ranked team compositions do not include marauders. Marauders get countered by lightning sorc, AP PT (since PTs have two stuns for gore windows), lightning sorc, madness sorc (stunbubble and root breaking force speed FTW), marksman sniper, lethality sniper, etc. Marauder gets countered by almost every class except arsenal merc (even IO merc can beat maras with electronet and mobile casts).

 

Mara needs MUCH more mobility than the class has right now, and slightly better defensives (undying rage nerf undone).

 

@ Aluvian

 

I would actually prefer a faster CD force camo instead of saber ward granting CC immunity, since saber ward has a 3 minute CD.

 

I agree a longer force camo would be great. That and more mobility like you said. If we're gonna be squishy but have high melee burst, it seems only fair we'd have more mobility on the battle field. I don't care about about the defensive CDs, improving them might make the class OP, but more mobility is needed for us to be effective dps.

[sloasdaylight]

Dont ge me wrong, marauders certainly have a hard task, since they are need to be on the front line, taking alot of fire, and at times it can just be hell, and yet others it can be unstopable

 

I rather liked beating on sorcs to be honest, yes they can kite but they cant rub out a burst without using god bubble, and since they almost always cast dots, 20% damage reduction will be up for the entire duration (plus 15% from stim), not to mention giving the heal during saber ward. And yes I am aware they can kite and slow until to the cows go home, but this isnt one on one, in a team battle you can capitalize on what someone else has started just by awareness. If your team mates at least know what they are doing, none of your targets should have every cooldown for you

 

Mercs and vanguards after Shield cant rub out damage either so once they pop shield I tend to disenage (force camo is one of the greatest cooldowns) for a bit and come back and finish the job after, other melee classes can fall heavy victim to obfusicate when used at the right time

 

the only class i would leave to last would be sniper as they can rub out all your damage, with shield probe, evasion, diversion, entrench and keep you in a constant state of knock back and rooted.

 

But to each his own

 

And this is the problem. I can steal KBs with the best of them, or finish off an opponent with a Precision/MS/CB combo all day long, but we don't have the mobility to stay with ranged classes in a 1v1, and we don't have the Defensive CDs to make up for that lack of mobility. I'd say we're more reliant on our team to not be awful than any other class, and definitely more so than my Shadow and my Sage (admittedly they're pretty ridiculous right now, especially my shadow). I don't know if it's because I'm playing Pub, or my server, or what, but in my experience, expecting quality pugs is a fool's errand.

 

I want them to do something to help Maras/Sents that doesn't mean waiting for someone else to initiate combat and then swoop in, or bribe a healer to follow them around, or convince a tank to guard you the whole time. I love this class, the mechanics, the rotation, the whole dual saber thing, all of it, but the mobility in PvP makes me feel like I'm banging my head against a wall most of the time, ESPECIALLY in 3.0.

Edited December 13, 2014 by sloasdaylight

[SkyLordJaden]

Honestly I think itd depend on who youre playing against. On my pt I could kite a mara pretty easily with the extend ranhe and only really worry about youre damage when you leap. On my sin its a toss up as to who initiates the fight andstarts tp kite, cause if I cant maul im screwed. I havent leveled my mara to 60 yet so I'm not sure but ive seen them either do really well, or horrible but its been that way with all classes. Id say if mara is yoir fave continue with it cause having fun and being mediocre is better than playing fotm and being bored

[Lafay]

Sent / Mara needs support. It's a support dps class. It DOES need tweaked. Improved Stances should be baseline. Remove Crip Slash, bring back our root throw and add a snare to it with the heal debuff. Make the root Carnage only. Building fury while using out of combat heal should be baseline.

 

And if Shadows get 12 seconds of 100% cc / stun / root / snare immunity with deflection, plus another 5 seconds with Resilience, Maras should get something similar. Make Saber Ward give us that.

 

Oh yeah, and revert undying to pre nerf status. 5 seconds base lenght, health taken up front. do all of that and I think we are in a very good place without being OP.

 

 

Quoted for truth...

[maverickmatt]

Bioware should make force camouflage a 30 second CD, undo the undying rage nerf, and make predation provide root immunity.

 

Those 3 buffs would make marauder viable. Viable does not mean "well, marauder does well with a team". Top ranked team compositions do not include marauders. Marauders get countered by lightning sorc, AP PT (since PTs have two stuns for gore windows), lightning sorc, madness sorc (stunbubble and root breaking force speed FTW), marksman sniper, lethality sniper, etc. Marauder gets countered by almost every class except arsenal merc (even IO merc can beat maras with electronet and mobile casts).

 

Mara needs MUCH more mobility than the class has right now, and slightly better defensives (undying rage nerf undone).

 

@ Aluvian

 

I would actually prefer a faster CD force camo instead of saber ward granting CC immunity, since saber ward has a 3 minute CD.

 

 

The issue with all of that is that in a balanced match, Marauders wreck everything.

 

"But the system is unbalanced".

 

I am well aware but as I recall you were among those clamoring for classes to be balanced around Ranked PvP when it was 8v8.

 

In short, you cannot say that classes should be balanced around perfect play and then ask for buffs because a class suffers when it is not in a balanced team with perfect play.

 

Another poster said it better: What you are seeing is class balance in an unbalanced format.

Edited December 14, 2014 by maverickmatt

[Juithtin]

The problem I have (Particularly with Combat) is that everything you could get pre 3.0 you can't get now.

Four of them are "Heroic" talents, one of which doesn't seem to work whenever I've used it (unless I missed the part where roots and slows have become uncleanseable) and the other requires 2 gcds to use.

 

Just Pursuit: Should have an ICD for the snare and only require 1 gcd to apply. ICD could be 12s like Crippling Throw used to be.

 

Expunging Camouflage: Every time I've used it, it has not removed any roots/snares/other cleanseable debuff. Not sure if it works for others though.

 

Fleetfooted: Should grant immunity to movement impairing effects.

 

Contemplation or one of the above should also be moved into the Masterful tier - maybe even merge Expunging Camo with Force Fade. And I've always felt like Zealous Ward should reduce the cooldown on Saber Ward by 30s (or give us cc immunity like Shadows )

[howieloader]

Expunging Camouflage: Every time I've used it, it has not removed any roots/snares/other cleanseable debuff.

 

I have had this happen in several instances where I should've been cleansed of a root/snare, but instead just sit there in camo...

[XeniusX]

The issue with all of that is that in a balanced match, Marauders wreck everything.

 

"But the system is unbalanced".

 

I am well aware but as I recall you were among those clamoring for classes to be balanced around Ranked PvP when it was 8v8.

 

In short, you cannot say that classes should be balanced around perfect play and then ask for buffs because a class suffers when it is not in a balanced team with perfect play.

 

Another poster said it better: What you are seeing is class balance in an unbalanced format.

 

No, just no. This is by far the biggest load of BS i've ever seen you written on these forums. STOP talking about marauders like you understand what we are going through just because we wreck bad players.

 

Marauders when facing most classes now dont stand a chance without massive aid from healers, how is that balanced ?

 

What can a carnage marauder do when the sin gets his deflection up for instance ? Keep hammering on? hoping that ill hit that massacre between his shield and get the proc and maybe do a little damage? Cause i can't stun him/mezz him. I can use camo for 1/3 of the duration of it though(bigwhoop). Funny thing is even if you manage to slightly hurt him (by popping UR obviously) He can just exit combat, stun me or root me for 5 seconds with his overload.

 

Now what about juggs? can't controll him, he controlls me. So what happens? i have to fight him, atleast for a little bit and run away OR try and kill him if he is bad and doesn't use all of his godlike DCDs, if he is not bad he heals to full or use his saber reflect (basically UR).

 

PT's ? well, welcome to hell. he can rip me a new ******e within his 3 seconds aoe stun now. PT's are clearly not balanced and this HO superman speed they got is a *********** joke.

 

Sorcs also are pretty much impossible, so much root and bubble stun and i am not even doing damage half the time I'm on him. Its like the sorc has 50% dmg reduction (honestly i would prefer it, less annoying)

 

I could go on ofc.. The game is horribly unbalanced, marauders and sents are controlled, snared and stunfkced most of the time in the game. The only half decent area we can be put in too is the team arena 4v4.

 

Honestly there has to be a way for us to fight back in a 1v1 scale. How can the game be a balanced game when marauders can't function AT ALL alone? A half competent team could just root**** a marauder to the end of time or just kill him (not that hard, unless we have camo to escape), If this game had a 8v8 it would not be balanced.

 

And to the people that say: "good marauder will adapt and still thrive". Stop saying this. Anyone on any class will thrive against bad players and showcase some numbers here and dps there. It doesn't mean that its balanced.

 

Now that i've ranted here is what i feel we deserve:

 

- More mobility.

The fact that we now have less controll and the same mobility against classes that have gotten so much immunities and controll in return makes it unbalanced. Our burst is not as dangerous as it was pre 3.0 so there wouldn't be any reason to lock us down as much as this. Roots are like stuns for a marauder.

The ironic thing is that PTs now have the best mobility in the game aswell as the best burst. talk about balance.

 

- Undying rage needs a rework OR force camo more readily available.

[sloasdaylight]

Honestly, I really wish people would stop asking for a GbtF that still takes away half our remaining HP as our ultimate DCD. Is there another class out there whose "oh ****" button has to be saved when they're under 20% to be used for fear of wasting too much HP when it ends?

 

If there isn't a healer in your group, and you pop GbtF, you HAVE to completely disengage with that and force camo to try to get somewhere to heal yourself up before you can get back into the fight again, and with the yolo system in ranked right now, and the general state of WZs, its not uncommon to be in a situation where there isn't a healer.

 

And leg slash should be replaced with crippling thow, have its range extended to at least 15-20 meters, and apply a 5-10 slow AFTER a 5 second, uncleasable root is applied. I can't fathom the thought behind that change.

Edited December 14, 2014 by sloasdaylight

[Ubwike]

This is from the perspective of a carnage mara in PvP. I play the other specs, but not often in PvP, mostly for raids. I kinda feel Howieloader hit the nail on the head with this one, but here is my fleshed out version.

 

People think that 99% dr is a god mode. I'm sorry, it just isn't - every class has a stun that lasts 4.5 seconds up more often than the dualwielder gets the 'big defensive'. Have any of you noticed that you can stun, move away, then kill these dualwielders by popping that stun as you see them use that defensive? If they still have a stunbreak up, (unlikely), just root them/mezz them, and you get the same effect. If you haven't, then you really need to learn a little more about the game.

 

For me, why do these dualwielders feel so gimped? Well, I liked carnage pre 3.0. I played it a lot in PvP - it was not an easy spec, anyone who knew how to play would be keeping their eyes open for your first gore, so you kinda had to get to a position when you knew their long list of escapes etc. had been depleted. That worked, as you could do a lot of damage in that gore window and so when you did manage to bait use of these abilities/surprise someone, you could apply quite a lot of pain.

 

However, it was still hard to make it fly - getting decent length windows of contact time during gore on the enemy was difficult, every class seems to have a surfeit of slows, knockbacks and roots. Don't forget that ranged classes were also given rootbreakers (on a shorter CD than the dualwielder, or the dualweilders roots, who needs to be in contact to do damage), so you would struggle to pin them down, they could just kite you round and have a laugh while you could only land the occasional hit.

 

Beyond this, it is worth noting that almost all stuns and mezz's are sub 10m - and given the other classes ability to mitigate stuns to some extent, as a mara, you could be confident you'd eat a lot of them. Due to this, the dualwielder was already terrible on its own - stun, root and rape, they are free lunch.

 

Now, things have moved on to another level. The dualwielding melee class gets little to help its mobility, while other classes are just laughing, with roots, knockbacks, non cast stuns, and cc/stun/root immunity allowing them to melt the mara at leisure. Ohh, I forgot - there are now some massive self heals on damage too.

 

So what are my suggestions? Well, give the longer gore window back - burst was what made up for the lack of mobility. But also, maybe it is time to look at more 'AAA' class abilities - anyone who is gifted with more brainpower than an amoeba can get round their 'godlike' breif dr, so discounting that, they don't have one. Bloodthirst has also been relegated from the 'AAA' list by unlimited power etc...

 

Well what to try? There are a lot of suggestions in this thread, some good, some not so. I think that some QoL improvements are needed, and like the idea of building fury while healing being standard. Reducing force camo's cd too would help. Giving back a ranged (10m) root is kinda needed.

 

To my simple mind, you could make some of the mara's power's mirror force leach. You could also allow them to pop *all defensives* during a stun. Another thought would be to buff their burst dps to compensate for the fact that they survive for as long as chocolate fireguards. Another thought - you've gimped ravage, it doesn't do nearly as much damage as it used to, so you could give it as an instant stun. Finally, give them REAL ROOTS. Yes, what would a real root be? Something that sticks, and gives you the 3 seconds of root as advertised and can only be broken by a stunbreaker!

 

TL: DR - Dualwielders defensives aren't scary, l2p. Dualwielders burst is unimpressive, they can't put the hurt on quickly any more. Dualwielders mobility is laughable, root and kill. Dualwielders survivability, well that isn't really there. Dualwielders don't seem to be in a good place right now.

 

Sorry for the wall of text. Good luck marauders and sentinels, you'll be needing it.

[rosikquit]

No, just no. This is by far the biggest load of BS i've ever seen you written on these forums. STOP talking about marauders like you understand what we are going through just because we wreck bad players.

 

Marauders when facing most classes now dont stand a chance without massive aid from healers, how is that balanced ?

 

What can a carnage marauder do when the sin gets his deflection up for instance ? Keep hammering on? hoping that ill hit that massacre between his shield and get the proc and maybe do a little damage? Cause i can't stun him/mezz him. I can use camo for 1/3 of the duration of it though(bigwhoop). Funny thing is even if you manage to slightly hurt him (by popping UR obviously) He can just exit combat, stun me or root me for 5 seconds with his overload.

 

Now what about juggs? can't controll him, he controlls me. So what happens? i have to fight him, atleast for a little bit and run away OR try and kill him if he is bad and doesn't use all of his godlike DCDs, if he is not bad he heals to full or use his saber reflect (basically UR).

 

PT's ? well, welcome to hell. he can rip me a new ******e within his 3 seconds aoe stun now. PT's are clearly not balanced and this HO superman speed they got is a *********** joke.

 

Sorcs also are pretty much impossible, so much root and bubble stun and i am not even doing damage half the time I'm on him. Its like the sorc has 50% dmg reduction (honestly i would prefer it, less annoying)

 

I could go on ofc.. The game is horribly unbalanced, marauders and sents are controlled, snared and stunfkced most of the time in the game. The only half decent area we can be put in too is the team arena 4v4.

 

Honestly there has to be a way for us to fight back in a 1v1 scale. How can the game be a balanced game when marauders can't function AT ALL alone? A half competent team could just root**** a marauder to the end of time or just kill him (not that hard, unless we have camo to escape), If this game had a 8v8 it would not be balanced.

 

And to the people that say: "good marauder will adapt and still thrive". Stop saying this. Anyone on any class will thrive against bad players and showcase some numbers here and dps there. It doesn't mean that its balanced.

 

Now that i've ranted here is what i feel we deserve:

 

- More mobility.

The fact that we now have less controll and the same mobility against classes that have gotten so much immunities and controll in return makes it unbalanced. Our burst is not as dangerous as it was pre 3.0 so there wouldn't be any reason to lock us down as much as this. Roots are like stuns for a marauder.

The ironic thing is that PTs now have the best mobility in the game aswell as the best burst. talk about balance.

 

- Undying rage needs a rework OR force camo more readily available.

 

I totally agree with this guy

[cjwestlake]

No, just no. This is by far the biggest load of BS i've ever seen you written on these forums. STOP talking about marauders like you understand what we are going through just because we wreck bad players.

 

Marauders when facing most classes now dont stand a chance without massive aid from healers, how is that balanced ?

 

What can a carnage marauder do when the sin gets his deflection up for instance ? Keep hammering on? hoping that ill hit that massacre between his shield and get the proc and maybe do a little damage? Cause i can't stun him/mezz him. I can use camo for 1/3 of the duration of it though(bigwhoop). Funny thing is even if you manage to slightly hurt him (by popping UR obviously) He can just exit combat, stun me or root me for 5 seconds with his overload.

 

Now what about juggs? can't controll him, he controlls me. So what happens? i have to fight him, atleast for a little bit and run away OR try and kill him if he is bad and doesn't use all of his godlike DCDs, if he is not bad he heals to full or use his saber reflect (basically UR).

 

PT's ? well, welcome to hell. he can rip me a new ******e within his 3 seconds aoe stun now. PT's are clearly not balanced and this HO superman speed they got is a *********** joke.

 

Sorcs also are pretty much impossible, so much root and bubble stun and i am not even doing damage half the time I'm on him. Its like the sorc has 50% dmg reduction (honestly i would prefer it, less annoying)

 

I could go on ofc.. The game is horribly unbalanced, marauders and sents are controlled, snared and stunfkced most of the time in the game. The only half decent area we can be put in too is the team arena 4v4.

 

Honestly there has to be a way for us to fight back in a 1v1 scale. How can the game be a balanced game when marauders can't function AT ALL alone? A half competent team could just root**** a marauder to the end of time or just kill him (not that hard, unless we have camo to escape), If this game had a 8v8 it would not be balanced.

 

And to the people that say: "good marauder will adapt and still thrive". Stop saying this. Anyone on any class will thrive against bad players and showcase some numbers here and dps there. It doesn't mean that its balanced.

 

Now that i've ranted here is what i feel we deserve:

 

- More mobility.

The fact that we now have less controll and the same mobility against classes that have gotten so much immunities and controll in return makes it unbalanced. Our burst is not as dangerous as it was pre 3.0 so there wouldn't be any reason to lock us down as much as this. Roots are like stuns for a marauder.

The ironic thing is that PTs now have the best mobility in the game aswell as the best burst. talk about balance.

 

- Undying rage needs a rework OR force camo more readily available.

 

I agree!! /signed

[NYRfan]

Part of the reason I shelved my mara when I got to 60 is because of all the new CC immunity utils and mobility enhancements that seemingly every class BUT mara got.

 

Sure, we have a util that affects speed buff but I'm forced to slot other, more defensive utilities just to survive so I'm unable to take advantage of any of the quality of life utilities that could help counter-act the mobility deficiency inherent to the class.

 

Also, I think another overarching problem is this class feels like an old school warlock from WoW (sorry but I thought it was a fitting way to describe it). Almost all of the key marauder tools require full stacks of fury to use (kind of like a cooldown in itself), then have a standard ability cooldown timer and some even have a hard cooldown that is raid/group-wide (e.g. dps buff). Our speed buff requires fury, our self heal requires fury, our dps buff requires fury. This isn't unlike oldschool warlocks who relied on needing to gather soulshards for their most powerful abilities or required sacrificing their companion to use what other classes got for free.

 

Sins/Sorcs can force speed every 15 seconds. Juggs can grant speed to everyone in the raid whenever they want, Ops can roll seemingly across a map every 15-30 seconds. PTs/mercs can speed around with cc immunity seemingly non-stop. Sins/sorcs can dps buff themselves with standard cooldowns, etc.

 

Maras need fury to use almost any utility. Sure it's not super hard to generate 30 fury but it also requires that you be actively engaging a target which is most likely trying (and succeeding) in kiting your *** with the new level 60 toys.

 

Maras also are practically de facto required to pick up the util that generates fury with health regen which is silly and contra to the whole point of the discipline system creating more flexibility in "personalizing" your toon's build.

 

What can be done about it? Perhaps removing some of the fury requirements from abilities like berserk and speed and putting standard cooldowns on them or just redesigning the fury mechanic entirely. It just seems like too much of a burden when TTK in PvP is the way it is these days. Maybe I've just been playing my jugg too much and am spoiled by actually being able to use utilities, you know, on demand.

[Cjirucha]

No, just no. This is by far the biggest load of BS i've ever seen you written on these forums. STOP talking about marauders like you understand what we are going through just because we wreck bad players.

 

Marauders when facing most classes now dont stand a chance without massive aid from healers, how is that balanced ?

 

What can a carnage marauder do when the sin gets his deflection up for instance ? Keep hammering on? hoping that ill hit that massacre between his shield and get the proc and maybe do a little damage? Cause i can't stun him/mezz him. I can use camo for 1/3 of the duration of it though(bigwhoop). Funny thing is even if you manage to slightly hurt him (by popping UR obviously) He can just exit combat, stun me or root me for 5 seconds with his overload.

 

Now what about juggs? can't controll him, he controlls me. So what happens? i have to fight him, atleast for a little bit and run away OR try and kill him if he is bad and doesn't use all of his godlike DCDs, if he is not bad he heals to full or use his saber reflect (basically UR).

 

PT's ? well, welcome to hell. he can rip me a new ******e within his 3 seconds aoe stun now. PT's are clearly not balanced and this HO superman speed they got is a *********** joke.

 

Sorcs also are pretty much impossible, so much root and bubble stun and i am not even doing damage half the time I'm on him. Its like the sorc has 50% dmg reduction (honestly i would prefer it, less annoying)

 

I could go on ofc.. The game is horribly unbalanced, marauders and sents are controlled, snared and stunfkced most of the time in the game. The only half decent area we can be put in too is the team arena 4v4.

 

Honestly there has to be a way for us to fight back in a 1v1 scale. How can the game be a balanced game when marauders can't function AT ALL alone? A half competent team could just root**** a marauder to the end of time or just kill him (not that hard, unless we have camo to escape), If this game had a 8v8 it would not be balanced.

 

And to the people that say: "good marauder will adapt and still thrive". Stop saying this. Anyone on any class will thrive against bad players and showcase some numbers here and dps there. It doesn't mean that its balanced.

 

Now that i've ranted here is what i feel we deserve:

 

- More mobility.

The fact that we now have less controll and the same mobility against classes that have gotten so much immunities and controll in return makes it unbalanced. Our burst is not as dangerous as it was pre 3.0 so there wouldn't be any reason to lock us down as much as this. Roots are like stuns for a marauder.

The ironic thing is that PTs now have the best mobility in the game aswell as the best burst. talk about balance.

 

- Undying rage needs a rework OR force camo more readily available.

Absolutely agree with this guy. I'm not one to QQ and complain but this class has literally gone from my favorite toon to being on the shelf. I've never liked rage (now fury) and the new play style is not that great for me. Annihilation and carnage have gone from the most fun specs to unbearable. New annihilation rotation is stagnant and way to long. The issues with carnage have all been highlighted. New abilities are lackluster (that's an understatement by the way). Class is just wrecked.

[Darth_Sennin]

The problem is the class that needs the best mobility in the game has the worst.

 

This cannot be said enough. And for those that disagree with it, just ask yourselves:

 

"Who should be the fastest classes in the game: ranged or melee?" Of course melee should...

 

B/c if you choose ranged...wow. But there's an answer to that type of balance, and Halo and other FPS games did it. Melee characters killed you in 1 hit, b/c they could hardly ever get to you., and if they did, you had to pay.

 

As for SQUISH Factor, melee will always be targets b/c when melee get within 4m of ONE enemy target, that melee is typically in the range of several-to-many ranged enemies. The devs have been puzzled how to dial in the survivability for Marauder/Sentinel since day 1 b/c of medium armor and horrible/non-existant defensive passives...which leads to no uptime for a DPS class....unless massive heal support. And even then, that heal support is better spent on a better ranged class.

 

There is an insanely huge opportunity cost to bringing melee into any sort of pvp match, and killing a few noobs is not a good yardstick to measure with. All things equal, ie. skill, ranged have higher potential w/ less risk/drawbacks. And great players, exploit this natural advantage to great effect.

 

Being melee is not about choosing a class type with an advantage in this game, it's about playing someone's "Star Wars Fantasy", which is really the only reason anyone is playing this game in the first place.

 

When the devs take a huge dump on class balance, melee/marauders in particular (we should never be a support class, even though ppl recognize that as the reality), the devs are taking a dump on players' Star Wars Fantasy.

 

STARTER FIX: Unstoppable talent from Juggernauts to the Marauders. And that still leaves Mara with that joke of a Fury system which wasn't even in the BETA, invented 2 weeks before the game went live and shipped. The Fury system is the illusion of choice. The reason why marauders have changed so much is because they have never known what they are doing with that class. This option doesn't even give Mara a CC improvement, but people would lose their minds over it somehow even though other classes have great options with insane uptime.

 

The only people playing Marauders/Sentinels in pvp, must be doin it for the lols and underdog bragging rights..."Hahaha dude, I killed you w/ a marauder! yea you suck that badly."

 

I'll admit that I only even play Marauder from beta til now because of dual wield lightsabers, it is my Star Wars Fantasy. At this point, if they just put an aesthetic 2nd saber for dual wielding on the Vengeance Juggernaut, I'd play that in a Heartbeat. Just do this option, b/c it's probably easier than redesigning the Mara/Sent.

 

I have zero faith in the devs to turn this ship around, their history speaks for itself. Especially when half the players are going: "Ohhhhhh, isn't there a new Leia bikini in the Cartel Market? OOOOO."

EA/BioUnaWare execs are probably carbon copies of the Sony Crony execs who were exposed on email recently. EA has no incentive to care about the game at a core level, it's all about the new microtransaction content. Most of the devs are working on Cartel Market. There's probably 1 dev tasked with class balance, down in the basement, mumbling about his stapler....

[Yezzan]

So is it bad that i only play mara because of the two sabers? >_<

 

Ok so I get killed the moment I am out of the safe zone but I suk big time. Didn't realize the AC suked too.

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

No, just no. This is by far the biggest load of BS i've ever seen you written on these forums. STOP talking about marauders like you understand what we are going through just because we wreck bad players.

 

Marauders when facing most classes now dont stand a chance without massive aid from healers, how is that balanced ?

 

What can a carnage marauder do when the sin gets his deflection up for instance ? Keep hammering on? hoping that ill hit that massacre between his shield and get the proc and maybe do a little damage? Cause i can't stun him/mezz him. I can use camo for 1/3 of the duration of it though(bigwhoop). Funny thing is even if you manage to slightly hurt him (by popping UR obviously) He can just exit combat, stun me or root me for 5 seconds with his overload.

 

Now what about juggs? can't controll him, he controlls me. So what happens? i have to fight him, atleast for a little bit and run away OR try and kill him if he is bad and doesn't use all of his godlike DCDs, if he is not bad he heals to full or use his saber reflect (basically UR).

 

PT's ? well, welcome to hell. he can rip me a new ******e within his 3 seconds aoe stun now. PT's are clearly not balanced and this HO superman speed they got is a *********** joke.

 

Sorcs also are pretty much impossible, so much root and bubble stun and i am not even doing damage half the time I'm on him. Its like the sorc has 50% dmg reduction (honestly i would prefer it, less annoying)

 

I could go on ofc.. The game is horribly unbalanced, marauders and sents are controlled, snared and stunfkced most of the time in the game. The only half decent area we can be put in too is the team arena 4v4.

 

Honestly there has to be a way for us to fight back in a 1v1 scale. How can the game be a balanced game when marauders can't function AT ALL alone? A half competent team could just root**** a marauder to the end of time or just kill him (not that hard, unless we have camo to escape), If this game had a 8v8 it would not be balanced.

 

And to the people that say: "good marauder will adapt and still thrive". Stop saying this. Anyone on any class will thrive against bad players and showcase some numbers here and dps there. It doesn't mean that its balanced.

 

Now that i've ranted here is what i feel we deserve:

 

- More mobility.

The fact that we now have less controll and the same mobility against classes that have gotten so much immunities and controll in return makes it unbalanced. Our burst is not as dangerous as it was pre 3.0 so there wouldn't be any reason to lock us down as much as this. Roots are like stuns for a marauder.

The ironic thing is that PTs now have the best mobility in the game aswell as the best burst. talk about balance.

 

- Undying rage needs a rework OR force camo more readily available.

I don't main a Mara but I completely agree with all of the above. The class is in bad shape and has some of the worst utility choices in the game.

 

I mean 4 of the Heroic Utilities (Unbound, Expunging Camo, Inescapable, and Brooding) were ripped straight from the 2.0 Carnage tree... so now it is impossible for Carnage Maras to even get back all of the tools they had available to them pre 3.0, and they were given nothing to compensate for it.

 

Reversing the Undying nerf is long overdue. It was a ridiculous bandaid fix when the real problem was the talent in Rage + the pvp set bonus that combined to let UR have a 45s CD. Leave it as a 2-3min CD with the health cost taken up front and it would be perfectly fine compared to the defenses most other classes have now.

 

And for the love of god, give Maras Deadly Throw back with a root... Taking that away and requiring them to spend 2 GCDs for the same effect was asinine. Then they give us Jugs/Guards a root on Saber Throw as a utility...

 

I honestly have no idea what the devs were thinking with some of these changes. They just make no sense.

[KalElc]

I feel like this is a delicate issue here, marauder have sick dmg output/burst but are suffering to almost all CC effects in the game especially roots. I know it sound ridiculous but i believe that reverting undying rage back to former glory will be to much consider wit having a healer backing u up u don't get really penalty and i doubt they will change that.

 

We are not that squishy but like close to it, dont forget when have some decent Defense CD but we are ****ed some time if we dont activate it on time before incoming hard stun and bam.

 

Idk feel like in most situation we have to chase but i that's like we are more like ****ed on our own but playing with others still doing alright just that we suffer a bit with getting cc a bit here and there that's all.

 

But yeah like i said delicate issue. Have to consider what can we get that doesn't boost our survival or up time by to much as we suppose to give a lot of dmg output and be dangerous when we are on our target (Carnage/Furry perspective)

 

What i would like to see (might be to over the top) change utility on heroic of one of them or merge with one:

Every time u Activate Predation u get like what 4 Sec immunity? (maybe as like add a debuff after that u can only do it like every 12 sec or so, but then again why punished more when specs like Fury and Annihilation nerfing them self in dps when they predate)

 

would like to see something like that be tested out.

Edited December 16, 2014 by KalElc

[Natharon]

I don't feel gimped, but certainly not as strong as I feel on a shadow or guardian/jug (I main a sentinel now and also play these other classes. Those other classes just have much better tools right now to combat kiting and for surviving focus fire. With mara/sent damage where it is now (still very good), a few tweaks to defensive cooldowns (I'm looking at you undying rage/GBTF), and a few buffs to utilities could completely change that.

 

You can tweek GBTF in utilities to have less than 1:30 cooldown. They don't need any sort of cooldown reduction on that side if anything they need more mitigating defenses and a cooldown nerf to GBTF.

[nrevox]

Do you perchance know what Discipline that Maruader is that got the 1.2mil dps? I've never played a Marauder before, but would like to make one and try and get good with it after I saw the changes in 3.0.

 

I hit 1.2mil with Annihilation over the weekend. But, I had a healer keeping me alive the whole time. Marauders/Sentinels are a bit of a pain to play if you don't have a healer in your group (at least for me anyway).

[nrevox]

Ive seen marauders on my server be as devastating as ever topping damage and really putting the hurt on healers. Ofcourse I have also seen alot that are just fodder, But mainly because they insist on trying to burn the wrong classes. Most of the marauders I have seen getting dominated are doing so because of poor target selection. When I play my sniper i have marauders making a bee line for me all the time, (maybe because the word is snipers are sitting ducks). Thing is, why would you put all your focus into the one class that hard counters everything you have And restricts your movement more than any other class...9 times out of 10 it ends badly.

 

^^ This is true. But most of the time a marauder or sentinel is getting focused by snipers and sorcs (ranged) anyway. That is the idea .... burn them while they are at distance.

[Devilk]

I've seen Winz from <Don't Panic> do massive dmg like that on carnage. With a guard and a heal mara can do good

 

That's the issue. They require support where other classes do fine without.

[XeniusX]

I feel like this is a delicate issue here, marauder have sick dmg output/burst but are suffering to almost all CC effects in the game especially roots. I know it sound ridiculous but i believe that reverting undying rage back to former glory will be to much consider wit having a healer backing u up u don't get really penalty and i doubt they will change that.

 

We are not that squishy but like close to it, dont forget when have some decent Defense CD but we are ****ed some time if we dont activate it on time before incoming hard stun and bam.

 

Idk feel like in most situation we have to chase but i that's like we are more like ****ed on our own but playing with others still doing alright just that we suffer a bit with getting cc a bit here and there that's all.

 

But yeah like i said delicate issue. Have to consider what can we get that doesn't boost our survival or up time by to much as we suppose to give a lot of dmg output and be dangerous when we are on our target (Carnage/Furry perspective)

 

What i would like to see (might be to over the top) change utility on heroic of one of them or merge with one:

Every time u Activate Predation u get like what 4 Sec immunity? (maybe as like add a debuff after that u can only do it like every 12 sec or so, but then again why punished more when specs like Fury and Annihilation nerfing them self in dps when they predate)

 

would like to see something like that be tested out.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying the burst/dmg output is sick. Several other specs does better or equivalent even though they have much more controll and unrestricted movements.

Fury might do okay but as carnage I do not have the burst i used to have nor do i have lots of mobility.

2 inquisitors with their overload root is enough to stop your dmg output almost completely in arenas or otherwise. I've seen it happen, they just use it on CD and i sit there for a horrifying 10 seconds unless i use my precious Camo or Fury on predation. Fury with their obliterate might surpass this problem most of the time but gosh darn it i don't want to be forced to play smashspec...

 

Anyways, mobility is an issue. not our damage or our DCD's. I just want to move....

[chosonman]

I played sentinel as my first character for a very long time and have since rolled every other AC in the game and can tell you Mara/Sents a fantastic against bad players, but against half way decent to better players atrocious. The problem is the DFC don't work as well as they should. On paper they look great but in reality they're not as good as advertised. Pacify and rebuke are my main DfC and they go up right away in a fight, and SHOULD mitigate much of the initial burst of most classes, but they don't most of the time. The only saving grace for Sents is that they can cammo and run to fight another day only wished Cammo would drop agro like stealth does so we can heal right away to make the fight a bit more fair vs stealthers. Edited December 16, 2014 by chosonman