Frybert Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Indeed. We would not be there without this quote: Actually because of that quote we SHOULDN'T be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Indeed. We would not be there without this quote: Sure some of you would...you would find something else to QQ about who you trying to kid here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Actually because of that quote we SHOULDN'T be here. Exactly. There are plenty of other things for people to dream up to gripe about I am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 So it seems the trend shifted and now the NO gets 10% more votes than the yes 45% vs 41%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I would not be upset if they offered a refund. I think it would be harmless. I do not support DEMANDING a refund. I find that petty and shortsighted, one of the reasons I withdrew my support for it. The folks that truly deserve a refund, those that paid TWICE for the same ability or a specced ability are likely a very small portion of the playerbase, and I expect most do not care one way or another. And of those folks that still want a refund, they will likely see the money lost 10 fold over time with the removal of training costs from here forward. I also find the claims that "it would reward bad behavior" or "harm the game" equally ludicrous, to be fair. Edited December 12, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 So it seems the trend shifted and now the NO gets 10% more votes than the yes 45% vs 41%. I think your poll results have been tampered with by someone with too much time on their hands to be perfectly honest. If I were in a computer lab on a college campus that has 30 computers, I could vote 30 times for example. This is what I was referring to a few pages back when I hinted that it would takes thousands of responses to get a quantitative analysis of the results. With the current number of responses there aren't enough honest and ethical responses to balance the trend against votes cast by individuals who know how to exploit a poll that doesn't require a login to ensure people only vote once. If the reporting tools for Polldaddy show you the time stamps for when votes were cast, I would be looking for a time period where a lot of No responses were made for today. As much as I would like those votes to stay since they support my view on this topic, I think your poll results are more reflective of the voters opinions if that large group of No votes were thrown out, assuming they all occurred withing a relatively short period of time. I won't deny I can be a real arsehole at times, but I do like to be honest and ethical, and I really do think that large swing in the votes today indicates the poll has been tampered with in an unethical manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) simply - online gamers would rather someone got nothing at all, than they get something themselves Edited December 12, 2014 by Kane_Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think your poll results have been tampered with by someone with too much time on their hands to be perfectly honest. If I were in a computer lab on a college campus that has 30 computers, I could vote 30 times for example. This is what I was referring to a few pages back when I hinted that it would takes thousands of responses to get a quantitative analysis of the results. With the current number of responses there aren't enough honest and ethical responses to balance the trend against votes cast by individuals who know how to exploit a poll that doesn't require a login to ensure people only vote once. If the reporting tools for Polldaddy show you the time stamps for when votes were cast, I would be looking for a time period where a lot of No responses were made for today. As much as I would like those votes to stay since they support my view on this topic, I think your poll results are more reflective of the voters opinions if that large group of No votes were thrown out, assuming they all occurred withing a relatively short period of time. I won't deny I can be a real arsehole at times, but I do like to be honest and ethical, and I really do think that large swing in the votes today indicates the poll has been tampered with in an unethical manner. Now THAT is the epitome of boredom - tampering with a completely meaningless poll. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think your poll results have been tampered with by someone with too much time on their hands to be perfectly honest. If I were in a computer lab on a college campus that has 30 computers, I could vote 30 times for example. This is what I was referring to a few pages back when I hinted that it would takes thousands of responses to get a quantitative analysis of the results. With the current number of responses there aren't enough honest and ethical responses to balance the trend against votes cast by individuals who know how to exploit a poll that doesn't require a login to ensure people only vote once. If the reporting tools for Polldaddy show you the time stamps for when votes were cast, I would be looking for a time period where a lot of No responses were made for today. As much as I would like those votes to stay since they support my view on this topic, I think your poll results are more reflective of the voters opinions if that large group of No votes were thrown out, assuming they all occurred withing a relatively short period of time. I won't deny I can be a real arsehole at times, but I do like to be honest and ethical, and I really do think that large swing in the votes today indicates the poll has been tampered with in an unethical manner. Err.... how about you make your own poll and we see how it goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_w_sanders Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 No, and while I didn't spend 1 million credits leveling to 60 (because i'll wait 3 months for the expansion to be free) I spent 200,000 training abilities I already had with the new system. I was mad but I still say no. I also don't see the point in removing training costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 I was mad but I still say no. I also don't see the point in removing training costs. It's to make the game more appealing for the most casual. Seems to me the game is shifting into that direction and honestly I think it's a smart move. Although I disagree with the removal of the training money sink. However would have traded it for the removal of mods extraction hence promoting CM and crafters sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 No, and while I didn't spend 1 million credits leveling to 60 (because i'll wait 3 months for the expansion to be free) I spent 200,000 training abilities I already had with the new system. I was mad but I still say no. I also don't see the point in removing training costs. I was with you until the last bit. Does there really need to be a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Err.... how about you make your own poll and we see how it goes? Fine. I'll make my own poll. With blackjack. And ******s. In fact, forget the poll! Edit: I had a hunch it might be censored. You Bender fans out there know what I mean Edited December 12, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Fine. I'll make my own poll. With blackjack. And ******s. In fact, forget the poll! I don't tell you how to tell me what to do, so don't tell me how to do what you tell me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Antiquing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's to make the game more appealing for the most casual. Seems to me the game is shifting into that direction and honestly I think it's a smart move. Although I disagree with the removal of the training money sink. However would have traded it for the removal of mods extraction hence promoting CM and crafters sales. One-time credit drains aren't really credit drains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Sorry Rafaman, but I feel this is likely hyperbole. Most folks would welcome compensation I would expect, even if they don't need or want it. Any contentions to the contrary are likely disingenuous. You can support the idea of offering refunds and still find satisfaction in what was offered. Just because someone doesn't rage against something does not mean they lend it their support. That is just propaganda speak to attempt to get folks to take a strong negative stance. It is an attempt at manipulation, nothing more. No... I'm sorry. You are way off. To not care, by definition, means that you wouldn't even be having this conversation. Not refusing compensation does not mean you were complicit. But, what you are advocating is in fact that BW do something. It is just in a passive aggressive way. "I'm statisfied... but BW should take care of its customers by giving them more." The fact that nobody would turn down creds isn't even relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 So it seems the trend shifted and now the NO gets 10% more votes than the yes 45% vs 41%. Lol. So is your poll still relevant? Bet I know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) One-time credit drains aren't really credit drains. Well to quote the devs: Credit sinks: majority of credits spent – ability training – this drops off around Feb as more and more people are 50. Other sinks like container purchases now take over. Source Now it was back in 2012 so I'd take that with a grain of salt although regarding the past steep prices for training from 55 to 60 I would not be that surprised it's still the case or would I say that low regarding what you seems to say. Edited December 13, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) No... I'm sorry. You are way off. To not care, by definition, means that you wouldn't even be having this conversation. Not refusing compensation does not mean you were complicit. But, what you are advocating is in fact that BW do something. It is just in a passive aggressive way. "I'm statisfied... but BW should take care of its customers by giving them more." The fact that nobody would turn down creds isn't even relevant. I'm personally doing nothing of the kind. If you are trying to say I have some hidden agenda, well. that would be incorrect as well. If that is not your contention, then my apologies. Edited December 13, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 There's much debate on the subject so how about making it simple: . Do you want BioWare to refund training costs spent post 3.0 implementation? POLL . So we know they aren't going to do anything... But I have to wonder how many of those who have done the poll are early release people, F2P, trolls or people who genuinely believe there shouldn't be a refund I know people who lvl'd 3-5 toons before they found out about the cost being removed... It cost millions of credits... Everyone says how easy it is to get credits... But not everyone wants to grind dailies just get credits... They want to spend their time doing things they enjoy... It's not supposed to be work... It supposed to be fun Also the more Alts you have the more credits you need to LVL them and gear them... At the end of the day Bio shafted the early release people... I know a lot of people will not pre-purchase another expansion if that is Bios attitude to its loyal customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) So we know they aren't going to do anything... But I have to wonder how many of those who have done the poll are early release people, F2P, trolls or people who genuinely believe there shouldn't be a refund I know people who lvl'd 3-5 toons before they found out about the cost being removed... It cost millions of credits... Everyone says how easy it is to get credits... But not everyone wants to grind dailies just get credits... They want to spend their time doing things they enjoy... It's not supposed to be work... It supposed to be fun Also the more Alts you have the more credits you need to LVL them and gear them... At the end of the day Bio shafted the early release people... I know a lot of people will not pre-purchase another expansion if that is Bios attitude to its loyal customers I am a pre-order person and I don't feel shafted, slapped, slighted, or whatever nonsensical hyperbole people want to use. I, in fact, pre-ordered for both of my subscription accounts. I have been here almost since release, and never have let my subs lapse once. I also created an account for my daughter and bought CC for her so she could become a preferred account. I pre-ordered both expansions that BioWare has released for the game. I will continue to pre-order expansions as long as the perks of pre-ordering are something that appeal to me. I don't think you get any more loyal than me. It is easy to get credits, and it's easy to do it in several different ways. Yes, it's true the more alts you have the more credits you need to level and gear them, but it also means the more credits you can get. I don't do dailies. I play the game "normally." While doing so, I have no problem doing side things that allow me to earn a lot of credits with very little effort. I am not much of a crafter, but even my low level guys can craft some basic stuff that brings in thousands of credits quite easily. A few days of playing normally - i.e. questing, chest opening, Slicing, and crafting, and I doubled the cost of what it was to train. All while doing my normal fun stuff in game. Would it be nice if BioWare gave out credits or some other perk to those who trained up during the early access period before it was decided to remove training costs? Yes, of course it would. I don't feel for one second that anyone is deserves to get anything because of it though, except perhaps for those players affected by the re-training of skills, which was communicated in a poor fashion by BioWare. They did the best thing they could in this situation. They came to the conclusion that charging credits for skill training was no longer desirable or viable, and placed a date upon implementation of the removal of such costs. Quite frankly, the shorter the time span, the better. To have decided to push this implementation off further into the future would have created the untenable choice of either continuing to pay for skills knowing that they would be free in a relatively short span of time (and thusly still creating the problem of players who would want refunds) or to play the game in a gimped state by not buying skills until the implementation. I have been highly critical of some of BioWare's decisions in the past, but this is one decision that was the correct thing to do, as is the decision to announce that refunds will not be issued. Edited December 13, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 So we know they aren't going to do anything... But I have to wonder how many of those who have done the poll are early release people, F2P, trolls or people who genuinely believe there shouldn't be a refund I know people who lvl'd 3-5 toons before they found out about the cost being removed... It cost millions of credits... Everyone says how easy it is to get credits... But not everyone wants to grind dailies just get credits... They want to spend their time doing things they enjoy... It's not supposed to be work... It supposed to be fun Also the more Alts you have the more credits you need to LVL them and gear them... At the end of the day Bio shafted the early release people... I know a lot of people will not pre-purchase another expansion if that is Bios attitude to its loyal customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Well to quote the devs: Source Now it was back in 2012 so I'd take that with a grain of salt although regarding the past steep prices for training from 55 to 60 I would not be that surprised it's still the case or would I say that low regarding what you seems to say. Yeah, they weren't thinking clearly. Training costs are only a credit drain relative to the credit faucet of the credits gained while leveling up. As compared with the REAL credit faucet - the credits gained while at max level, which is where everyone plays after the first few months, training costs are something between insignificant and laughable as credit drains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Yeah, they weren't thinking clearly. Training costs are only a credit drain relative to the credit faucet of the credits gained while leveling up. As compared with the REAL credit faucet - the credits gained while at max level, which is where everyone plays after the first few months, training costs are something between insignificant and laughable as credit drains. Well if it that laughable then I wonder why people welcome the change that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts