Is alacrity good now for Vanguards/PTs in PvP ?

[Derzelaz]

After the "buffs" that alacrity got in 3.0, and also seeing the stat on the PvP items, is it that useful for us, or should I stack Power like a lunatic as I did before ?

[TACeMossie]

After the "buffs" that alacrity got in 3.0, and also seeing the stat on the PvP items, is it that useful for us, or should I stack Power like a lunatic as I did before ?

 

You still stack power like a lunatic, but now you stop surge at ~300. If you dont want high impact bolt/rail shot missing, you get 304 accuracy to solve that issue, then put the rest of your implants/enhancements into alacrity.

[benovide]

you still stack power like a lunatic, but now you stop surge at ~300. If you dont want high impact bolt/rail shot missing, you get 304 accuracy to solve that issue, then put the rest of your implants/enhancements into alacrity.

 

^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^

[KainrycKarr]

You still stack power like a lunatic, but now you stop surge at ~300. If you dont want high impact bolt/rail shot missing, you get 304 accuracy to solve that issue, then put the rest of your implants/enhancements into alacrity.

 

 

Uhh, 300 surge? 67% That seems.....really low.

[TACeMossie]

Uhh, 300 surge? 67% That seems.....really low.

 

After 300, the points in surge start dropping really quickly. If we look at KBNs 2.0 numbers there was this picture:

http://i.imgur.com/yDA34pg.jpg

 

It shows Crit vs Surge vs Alac. As you can see, at about 280 surge, it starts flattening out. Hard. In 3.0 the surge formula wasn't changed (it still runs off level), so we multiply those values by 60/55 and we'll see accurate things for 3.0 - so that 280 surge becomes just over 300 (305.455 to be precise).

 

Of course, you can go over 300 surge, but having more alacrity will end up benefitting you more in the long run - alacrity will be a bit of an arms race. If you have more than your opponent, you'll get 1 more attack in, which could just finish them off. But if they have more than you, the opposite could happen.

 

Do you really wanna risk getting ~2% more surge (which is ~1% more damage on a crit) when it could cost you an entire attack because they had more alacrity than you and finished you off first?

Edited December 9, 2014 by TACeMossie

[benovide]

After 300, the points in surge start dropping really quickly. If we look at KBNs 2.0 numbers there was this picture:

http://i.imgur.com/yDA34pg.jpg

 

It shows Acc vs Surge vs Alac. As you can see, at about 280 surge, it starts flattening out. Hard. In 3.0 the surge formula wasn't changed (it still runs off level), so we multiply those values by 60/55 and we'll see accurate things for 3.0 - so that 280 surge becomes just over 300 (305.455 to be precise).

 

Of course, you can go over 300 surge, but having more alacrity will end up benefitting you more in the long run - alacrity will be a bit of an arms race. If you have more than your opponent, you'll get 1 more attack in, which could just finish them off. But if they have more than you, the opposite could happen.

 

Do you really wanna risk getting ~2% more surge (which is ~1% more damage on a crit) when it could cost you an entire attack because they had more alacrity than you and finished you off first?

 

Actually from what I'm finding with my SOrc, (haven't tested on my PT completely, quite yet) high enough Alacrity can allow you up almost 5 additional attacks depending on what they are, and if you have enough reserves to do them.

 

But overall it's an experiment at this point, because I've not finding anykind of plateau with Alacrity, and in fact, it seems to go higher and higher the more you stack on, almost as if it increases at a rate of exponential increase instead of decay.

[Spacegater]

You still stack power like a lunatic, but now you stop surge at ~300. If you dont want high impact bolt/rail shot missing, you get 304 accuracy to solve that issue, then put the rest of your implants/enhancements into alacrity.

 

do you have a theoretical "best setup" or is that still far from tested yet?

[Zoom_VI]

After 300, the points in surge start dropping really quickly. If we look at KBNs 2.0 numbers there was this picture:

http://i.imgur.com/yDA34pg.jpg

 

It shows Crit vs Surge vs Alac. As you can see, at about 280 surge, it starts flattening out. Hard. In 3.0 the surge formula wasn't changed (it still runs off level), so we multiply those values by 60/55 and we'll see accurate things for 3.0 - so that 280 surge becomes just over 300 (305.455 to be precise).

 

Losing 8% cirtical damage bonus is not worth the extra accuracy. Accuracy is a weak stat in PvP. Anything less than 75% surge is going to cost you. I take two accuracy enhancements and don't touch alacrity.

 

Alacrity is striaght up bad because you can never get enough of it to bring the GCD down low enough to justify it.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Losing 8% cirtical damage bonus is not worth the extra accuracy. Accuracy is a weak stat in PvP. Anything less than 75% surge is going to cost you. I take two accuracy enhancements and don't touch alacrity.

 

Alacrity is striaght up bad because you can never get enough of it to bring the GCD down low enough to justify it.

 

It's not just about the GCD, all Ability CD's are reduced, AND DoT's tick faster, and abilities that aren't even casted or channeled animate faster. Overall i would say getting ~5% Alacrity isnt a terrible idea, especially in PvP where Burst is king.

[Zoom_VI]

It's not just about the GCD, all Ability CD's are reduced, AND DoT's tick faster, and abilities that aren't even casted or channeled animate faster. Overall i would say getting ~5% Alacrity isnt a terrible idea, especially in PvP where Burst is king.

 

The damage loss is too high though on your burst. Its not that speeding up your attacks is bad, its that you can't speed up your attacks enough to justify the surge you are losing.

[znihilist]

The damage loss is too high though on your burst. Its not that speeding up your attacks is bad, its that you can't speed up your attacks enough to justify the surge you are losing.

 

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I think it is flipped. It is you who have to justify going so far into the DR over dumping those extar points in alacrity.

[Ottoattack]

Alacrity is moot in PvP. You get stunned pushed, pulled, LOSed, etc... you will never fire with no interruption. Accuracy is a bit different, but burst is what kills in PvP. I would rather take a risk with a 9K RS with 3-4% chance of missing than hit 8.5K RS with not miss chance. Maxing surge in PvP is not an option. It is a must if you are AP.

 

Pyro is a different story, but who plays it in PvP anyway.

[znihilist]

Alacrity is moot in PvP. You get stunned pushed, pulled, LOSed, etc... you will never fire with no interruption. Accuracy is a bit different, but burst is what kills in PvP. I would rather take a risk with a 9K RS with 3-4% chance of missing than hit 8.5K RS with not miss chance. Maxing surge in PvP is not an option. It is a must if you are AP.

 

Pyro is a different story, but who plays it in PvP anyway.

 

I don't think anyone realize that this is not a simple linear problem to solve. You are partly correct in what you are saying, but how does that affect alacrity per se ? One could argue having about 100ms ping advantage over the people playing against is instrumental (alacrity could be equivalent to that). If my cast/channel time is 10% lower, the people fighting against me now have to be 10% faster to react, this is not about fitting another attack every couple of GCDs.

 

I do not believe anyone is arguing that alacrity is flat out better, but to argue that there isn't a possibility for alacrity to better over the marginal increase of dps those last 100 points of surge grants is a bit shortsighted.

Edited December 12, 2014 by znihilist

[Zoom_VI]

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I think it is flipped. It is you who have to justify going so far into the DR over dumping those extar points in alacrity.

 

Not really. You have to remember that alacrity only pays off if you are activated abilities the instant the GCD ends, so that over time you fire more abilities. However in PvP if you get stunned or LoS'ed for even half a second all that alacrity you took just went to waste.

[AdamLKvist]

Not really. You have to remember that alacrity only pays off if you are activated abilities the instant the GCD ends, so that over time you fire more abilities. However in PvP if you get stunned or LoS'ed for even half a second all that alacrity you took just went to waste.

 

Common missconception.

 

1. As soon as you get out of the stun you're back on track to activating abilities earlier.

1.1 You might have been able to activate an ability before you got stunned because of alacrity.

2. Dots tick faster hence more damage whilst stunned.

3. Lower cds on abilities.

 

I'm not sure where exactly alacrity is yet and tbh no one seem to be certain but I'm sure the PvE parsing people are looknig at it. But then again, as for PvP - your argument is simply only true if you ignore all the counterpoints...

Edited December 12, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[Ottoattack]

I don't think anyone realize that this is not a simple linear problem to solve. You are partly correct in what you are saying, but how does that affect alacrity per se ? One could argue having about 100ms ping advantage over the people playing against is instrumental (alacrity could be equivalent to that). If my cast/channel time is 10% lower, the people fighting against me now have to be 10% faster to react, this is not about fitting another attack every couple of GCDs.

 

I do not believe anyone is arguing that alacrity is flat out better, but to argue that there isn't a possibility for alacrity to better over the marginal increase of dps those last 100 points of surge grants is a bit shortsighted.

 

I do agree with you. Once you hit the DR for surge you will venture off to accuracy and alacrity. Once you hit around 93-94% in accuracy alacrity will be a better choice. But it is defiantly third in line after suge and accuracy.

[znihilist]

Not really. You have to remember that alacrity only pays off if you are activated abilities the instant the GCD ends, so that over time you fire more abilities. However in PvP if you get stunned or LoS'ed for even half a second all that alacrity you took just went to waste.

 

That's not entirely true, again look at my comment about server ping. If you had a 100ms advantage over someone they will have to play catch up with you, because alacrity would be a powerful form of "better" server lag, which is not something that can be directly compared to: Well I can have an extra 2% surge.

Again this has nothing to do with stacking enough alacrity to have an extra GCD every 6 seconds, this is about forcing the person in front of you to play catch up.

My point is, the comparison isn't straightforward and we, as people who are trying to find out what works and doesn't we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

 

Now, if you would ask me to my personal opinion I would agree with you. There are probably just a spec or two in the game that can really benefit from alacrity in PvP but the rest would benefit from just stacking surge.