Sent/Mara Utility Changes

[waterboytkd]

With 3.0, a lot of classes got some sweet utility stuff. But Sents/Maras really didn't. And when you consider what happened to Combat/Carnage, they actually lost utilities.

 

With that in mind, and with the fact that the Sent/Mara utilities are quite lackluster, I came up with the following changes that I think would go a long way to helping Sents/Maras feel "up to par" with other classes in 3.0:

 

First, class abilities.

 

Leg Slash/Crippling Slash changed to Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw

 

 

Personally, I'm not against the idea of combing Leg Slash and Crippling Throw/Crippling Slash and Deadly Throw, largely because I NEVER used the melee attack. Why would you? Melee ranged slows are pointless--if the enemy is in melee range, you use your heavy hitting attacks!

 

That said, the devs combined them incorrectly. The slow from Leg Slash/Crippling Slash should have been added to Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw. And that's what this change would be.

 

NEW ABILITY: Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw: 10m range, 3 focus/rage cost, 12s cooldown, X damage, traume debuff, snare debuff.

 

Seriously, if nothing else is taken away from this post, THIS CHANGE MUST HAPPEN. The only way it could not be mandatory is if Leg Slash/Crippling Slash were taken off the GCD...but that would be a spammable attack off the GCD! And no, you couldn't give it a cooldown to make up for being off the GCD. Just make the ability Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw--it's the simpler, more elegant solution.

 

 

Transcendence/Predation

 

 

I LOVE this ability, but it has a fundemental flaw: only 1/3 of the disciplines for Sents/Maras can use the ability. Turns out, if Watchman/Anni or Concentration/Fury uses their 30 stacks of Centering/Fury on anything other than Zen/Berserk, it pretty much lobotomizes the effectiveness or rotation.

 

For Combat/Carnage, though it is still a dps loss to skip Zen/Berserk (to the point that, in PvE, it's the WRONG move), it at least leaves the rotation more or less intact, and doesn't really hurt burst windows too bad. However, with the shorter Precision/Gore window now, the 30% alacrity seems even more crucial, making Transcendence/Predation seem even more sketchy.

 

The whole problem is it fights against Zen/Berserk. The solution is simple: remove it from the Centering/Fury mechanic. Now, if you do that, there's another question that needs answering: does it stay an op group buff, or does it become a personal buff? As a raid buff, it gives Sents/Maras a little more to add to a group in PvP (not sure how useful it would be in PvE, but it does give 10% more defense). As a personal buff, it could conceivably have more uptime, which is nice for a class with very few ranged options (though more uptime could be an issue given its 10% defense boost; then again, one of the chiefest complaints for this class, especially in PvP, is that it's survivability has fallen to garbage).

 

RAID BUFF: Give it a 1 minute cooldown, with its 10 second duration. That's still 16.66% uptime, which is nice.

PERSONAL BUFF: Give it a 1 minute cooldown, but increase its duration to 15 seconds. That puts it up to a 25% uptime (50% over the raid buff).

 

 

Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage

 

 

I'm still super-confused by the lack of cohesion in design philosophy sometimes demonstrated in this game. This ability got nerfed to near-uselessness because it was too good with healers...but then Guardian/Juggs got FD/ED which doesn't even require a healer? As other classes have all gotten great "oh sh--" buttons, it makes no sense that this one remains terrible.

 

The fix is simple: return it to previous functionality. As in, have it consume hp on activation, not at the end of duration. It'll play nicer with Watchman/Anni that way, and still team up well with medpacs. It'll be a USEFUL ability again, but still won't be anywhere near as good as FD/ED.

 

If only 2 changes can be taken away from this post, after the Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw change, this is the next most important one. Hell, it might even be the most important one. THIS CHANGE MUST ALSO HAPPEN.

 

 

The Lost Abilities

 

 

Reposte/Retaliation and Cauterize/Rupture, specifically. I'm alright with the movement of Cauterize/Rupture into Watchman/Anni, though it does remove a usable ability from Carnage/Combat. But Concentration/Fury picked up a new ability to add to the rotation, so removing that helps keep their hotbars under control. Removing Reposte/Retaliation, though, was a little sad. It saw quite a bit of use in PvP, though understandably, little use in PvE. Besides, with its change to being on the GCD, keeping it on Sents/Maras would be fairly underwhelming.

 

The biggest concern for me, personally, as primarily a Combat/Carnage player is that by losing those abilities, the spec is down to a small number of abilities. That said, it would have been nice to gain a new ability at 57 instead of an upgrade version of Blade Storm/Force Scream.

 

 

Onto the Utilities!

 

Sents/Maras got the shortest end of the stick when it comes to Utilities. Go look at Shadows/Assassins. Or even look at the other AC for Jedi Knights/Sith Warriors. See how interesting and cool they are? (I'll give you, Skillful tier for Guardians/Juggs isn't very interesting, but the other two tiers are dope.)

 

Now look at Sents/Maras. You're choices are the "which is the least disappointing". Alright, in all fairness, some are good. But once you get to Heroic, there are literally only two viable choices (Expunging Camoflauge, and Contemplation/Brooding). Even Masterful tier is a study in "which ability is least useless for me".

 

So, time for some overhauls!

 

Fleetfooted/Unbound

 

 

So there's either one of two ways to take this utility, and that depends on whether my suggestions above for Transcendence/Predation are implemented. If my changes ARE implemented, then nothing need be done for this utility. It's still a Heroic-level utility, and for PvPers, it'll be a hard choice between this, Expunging Camo, and Contemplation/Brooding (and that's without any of the alterations I'd give to the other Heroics!).

 

If my suggested changes ARE NOT implemented for Transcendence/Predation (and they should be; why give Sents/Maras an ability that's at the very best corner case, but most often a play trap that makes you worse?), then this needs to turn into the original version of the utility from the Combat/Carnage tree:

 

Fleetfooted/Unbound: Force Camouflage purges all movement-impairing effects. Additionally, increases the movement bonus of Transcendence/Predation by 30%.

 

 

Just Pursuit/Inescapable

 

 

This utility is so bad, just delete it. Seriously. What it accomplishes will be better accomplished in another utility in the Masterful tier. Of course, I'm working under the assumption that Leg Slash/Crippling Slash will be changed into Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw., but only because THAT CHANGE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

 

So just delete this utility. It would be better to have an empty utility slot to be filled later than to have this sitting there, acting as a trap for less knowledgeable players.

 

Of course...if Leg Slash/Crippling Slash were taken off the GCD, then this utility looks a lot better...but again, spammable attack off the GCD?

 

 

Enduring/Undying

 

 

This is assuming my changes to GbtF/UR above are taken into account. Because if they aren't then nothing will make these utilities worth taking. GbtF/UR is barely usable outside of "I'm about to die; give me 4 more seconds to finish this guy off!" moments. So why would anyone spend utilities on a bad ability?

 

So if GbtF/UR is decent again, then this needs a little spice to contend with Expunging Camo or Contemplation/Brooding. Currently, this utility reduces the cooldown on GbtF/UR by 30s. Along that theme of "more usable", also give it the ability to be used while stunned. Currently, the best way to kill a Sent/Mara is to stun them as soon as they hit 30% health, before they pop GbtF/UR, because then they can't pop it, and they die. This utility would be a nice counter to that, and would really compete against the other Heroics then.

 

Enduring/Undying: Reduces the cooldown on Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage by 30 seconds, and allows that ability to be used while stunned.

 

 

Force Aegis/Relentless

 

 

This is assuming my changes to GbtF/UR above are taken into account. Because if they aren't then nothing will make these utilities worth taking. GbtF/UR is barely usable outside of "I'm about to die; give me 4 more seconds to finish this guy off!" moments. So why would anyone spend utilities on a bad ability?

 

So, assuming GbtF/UR is good again, this utility as is still doesn't really compete. Though 2 more seconds of invincible is pretty tight, it would really only compete if you also took the Enduring/Undying utility (in its suggested form above). To make this worthy on its own...here's a pretty radical idea. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Sent/Mara players ask for Unremitting/Unstoppable in the PvP forums. Though that'd be bonkers by itself, I think it could work tacked onto GbtF/UR (especially because of the health cost). But, a 4 second duration would be too long on an ability that's off the GCD. So why not make those extra 2 seconds of GbtF/UR that the utility already grants also grant Unremitting/Unstoppable?

 

Force Aegis/Relentless: Increases the duration of Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage by 2 seconds. Also, using Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage grants Relentless for 2 seconds, granting immunity to interrupts and all controlling effects.

 

Note that it does not purge controlling effects, so if you took Enduring/Undying so you could use GbtF/UR while stunned, this would not cleanse you of that stun. This is more meant as a proactive defensive move.

 

 

Displacement

 

 

This is assuming that my suggested changes to Leg Slash/Crippling Slash are implemented, which they MUST BE.

 

Being able to use Rebuke/Cloak of Pain while stunned is pretty cool...but my suggested change to Enduring/Undying already gives a "while stunned" DCD. Plus, Watchman/Anni and Combat/Carnage are in pretty dire need for some more anti-kiting tools, so I suggest returning this to its original form from the skill trees:

 

Displacement: Inceases the range of Pacify/Obfuscate by 6 meters, and Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw immobilizes the target for 3 seconds.

 

This becomes a top contender for Masterful utilities for PvPing Wachman/Anni and Combat/Carnage, and interesting for Concentration/Fury, though perhaps a bit overkill.

 

 

Jedi Promulgator/Cloak of Annihilation

 

 

This one is decent, but if my NECESSARY changes to Leg Slash/Crippling Slash are implemented, then this ability loses one of its triggering abilities. Now, you could just put Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw there, but the problem with that is you're replacing a spammable ability with an ability with a 12s cooldown. So, the best choice is another ability that is spammable: Slash/Vicious Slash comes to mind. This would also help make that feel a little better as a filler ability.

 

Of course, there's a problem there with Combat/Carnage: they replace Slash/Vicious Slash with Blade Rush/Massacre. Ok, so just put those abilities on there, too.

 

Jedi Promulgator/Cloak of Annihilation: Each use of Strike/Assault, Zealous Strike/Battering Assault, Slash/Vicious Slash, and Blade Rush/Massacre reduces the cooldown of Rebuke/Cloak of Pain by 3 seconds.

 

 

Conclusion

 

I think these changes would be enough to really satisfy a lot of Sentinel/Marauder players, so they don't feel quite so short-changed with the 3.0 changes, especially when they compare their utilities with a Guardian's/Juggernaut's, or a Shadow's/Assassin's. Some, like the Transcendence/Predation change would also help a lot with keeping abilities feeling useful for all specs.

 

You may have noticed I didn't touch the Skillful Utilities at all. They're more or less fine the way they are. Only Stagger is really useless, though maybe there's some people that like it (I guess Watchman/Anni that PvP might like it).

 

But I'm going to stress this again: the changes to Leg Slash/Crippling Slash are of the upmost importance, as is the change to Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage. Those abilities are just so bad, they need to be fixed.

[Beyrahl]

I'd like to thank you for taking the time for writing all this, must of taken a bit.

I literally cannot agree anymore with everything you said.

The no range root really bothers me the most, was the main reason I played carnage to keep my targets from kiting, even though the good still had a chance to escape. The state it's in now is just like.. Why waste my rage on it just to get knocked back or better yet stunned..

Almost all classes have stun immunity, or some other god mode, I think another alternate change to UD could be CC immunity during its duration instead. That'd make specing into it worth while.

[waterboytkd]

I'd like to thank you for taking the time for writing all this, must of taken a bit.

I literally cannot agree anymore with everything you said.

The no range root really bothers me the most, was the main reason I played carnage to keep my targets from kiting, even though the good still had a chance to escape. The state it's in now is just like.. Why waste my rage on it just to get knocked back or better yet stunned..

Almost all classes have stun immunity, or some other god mode, I think another alternate change to UD could be CC immunity during its duration instead. That'd make specing into it worth while.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read it!

 

I know that the devs are keeping an eye on Marauders because of the negative response to the 3.0 changes. I hope we can get dev eyes on posts like these, just so they can see the kinds of changes the Sent/Mara community would like.

[Beyrahl]

Of course, credit where it's due.

Hopefully more people see this post

[Atlanis]

Hmm, as always some reasonable Changes but I would be careful about calling for DPS buffs, in PvE Balance over all classes seems quite acceptable. I rather have PvP concerncs, I agree on that Crippling throw Idea of yours 100%, taking it away was a quite hard nerf to any Sent. Still I wouldn´t bring it back just jet I rather would have less squishiness.

 

I would go further with Guarded by the Force and I would bring Saberward into the pot. Since Saberward has usefullness next to "Looking better" or "Emotes" if not fighting other Sents/Melees and given its the Def CD with the longest CD ingame, I would flesh it out a little. Same goes for Rebuke.

 

Some Ideas for Changes, just to give some Ideas:

 

Sentinel:

- Guarded by the Force has its CD increased to 3:00 min but consumes no health.

- Saberward has its CD reduced to 1:30min

 

Uitility:

- Force Aegis increases the Duration of GBTF by 1 second. Upon activation GBTF causes a ripple in the Force blinding 3 nearby enemies for 3s .

- Purging Camouflage has been added to the masterfull Tier. Camouflage purges any negative effects upon activation. This ability replaces Expunging Camouflage.

- Just Pursuit has been switched with Displacement.

- Just Pursuit now increases your Movementspeed by 15% instead of granting a useless bonus to Leg Slash.

- Trailblazer now increases the DMG dealt by your AoEs by 10%.

- Defiance no longer generates focus while being stunned or knocked down. Instead it grants "Defiant" which deflects the next stun/snar upon the attacker. May only occur once every 20s.

[cjwestlake]

In all honesty the devs aren't going to change anything soon, I predict 4 to 6 months for any real change. Remember Bioware made these changes with everyone having the best armor for pve (I doubt PvP was a huge consideration) end game content in mind. Biowares track record for nerfs to OP classes is painfully slow. I hold no hope for sents now since most classes can out burst us, can cast while moving, and cc us to death. We have had all of our advantages taken away. So I decided to play a sage healer and vanguard. Sents were fun but now they are the joke of high level PvP and the easy kill target for most classes because our defensive abilities are vastly inferior.

[The_X]

I've been a Carnage marauder since launch. The class is a JOKE now. I see dozens of threads with probably hundreds of posts railing on this.. but not one response from the freakin Devs who have replied to numerous other threads since 3.0. Im so disgusted and outraged and insulted. BW, respond to the marauder issues. Do it. My sub runs out in a few days and I will NOT be resubbing without some kind of input. Edited December 8, 2014 by The_X

[DieseWiese]

I've been a Carnage marauder since launch. The class is a JOKE now. I see dozens of threads with probably hundreds of posts railing on this.. but not one response from the freakin Devs who have replied to numerous other threads since 3.0. Im so disgusted and outraged and insulted. BW, respond to the marauder issues. Do it. My sub runs out in a few days and I will NOT be resubbing without some kind of input.

 

The big problem of Carnage is that at the moment it's often impossible to get three hits in your Gore/Precision Slash window because of server lags but it's really essential to do so, even more when activating Berserk/Zen you have to do 4 hits in this space of time. Additionaly Carnage has the fewest useful skills, simply because all classes have 4 active abilities they get with their spec. In Carnage one is taken up by your stance and the other one is a replacement of Force Scream.

[JouerTue]

i'd be happy with throw back and being able to cleanse with camo while stunned instead of rebuke..

[waterboytkd]

The big problem of Carnage is that at the moment it's often impossible to get three hits in your Gore/Precision Slash window because of server lags but it's really essential to do so, even more when activating Berserk/Zen you have to do 4 hits in this space of time. Additionaly Carnage has the fewest useful skills, simply because all classes have 4 active abilities they get with their spec. In Carnage one is taken up by your stance and the other one is a replacement of Force Scream.

 

Though this thread was meant for Sentinels/Marauders in general, and not just Combat/Carnage, that discipline is near and dear to my heart. As such, I've been thinking about this. I'm not sure what to do about the lack of skills, other than change the level 57 ability into something else that's not a replacement ability. Or make the level 57 ability not share a cooldown with Blade Storm/Force Scream, setting up a dynamic similar to Concentration/Fury, where you want to open with the smaller ability to sunder the target via Opportune Attack/Execute, then hit with Clashing Blast/Debilitating Blast. But this could up the damage output of Combat/Carnage.

 

However, one thing I've seen people claim is that the devs have said damage for Combat/Carnage is low. Not sure if that's true, but if so, upping Gore's duration to 3.5 seconds and bringing its cooldown to 10.5 seconds would bring its % uptime to 33% (from 25%), and with 3.5 second duration, 3 abilities would be all but guaranteed (0s mark, 1.5 s, 3s). That with allowing them two autocrit abilities in Blade Storm/Force Scream and Clashing Blast/Debilitating Blast might bring that up.

 

All that said, I think it is more important to first address the suboptimal class abilities and the underwhelming utilities the whole AC has to deal with.

[DarkNecroCrusher]

A lot of things here are similar to what I have suggested in another thread.

 

I think we could merge them together in a new post after gathering comments and thoughts from other players.

Edited December 8, 2014 by DarkNecroCrusher

[HaemmernZeit]

Marauders definitely need deadly throw back, so stupid to take it away. And the old UR/GbtF is needed. Good ideas, nothing crazy OP. I think using UR while stunned is far more useful than CoP (its either up or on cd 99% of the time). These might help with us getting kited to death by ranged.

It would be nice to see all specs getting rupture (maybe with a 12 sec cd) and anni getting an upgraded rupture without a cd. I think that would make the specs closer to how they used to play and more fun/interesting (not the 3 buttons that carn is now). I wasn't sure about the 3 sec gore, thought the low cooldown would be nice for pvp, but I think a longer gore would be better as well.

Having a slow/root resistance on pred or a buff on camo so you still can't be slowed/rooted after stealth would be sweet. I just love being rooted every 3 seconds by sorcs I can't even touch.

Edited December 8, 2014 by HaemmernZeit

[waterboytkd]

Having a slow/root resistance on pred or a buff on camo so you still can't be slowed/rooted after stealth would be sweet. I just love being rooted every 3 seconds by sorcs I can't even touch.

 

Although I never had that problem with Stealth pre 3.0, I agree. More abilities exist to root now; even Shadows/Assassins have a utility that makes their knockback root.

 

If Transcendence/Predation remained unchanged (as in, attached to the Centering/Fury mechanic), I think the only way that Unbound could remain acceptable is if it either:

A) Went back to the old form of Unbound (purged movement impairment on Force Camo, +30% speed for Predation)

or

B) Gave purged movement impairment on activation AND gave movement-impairment immunity for the duration. Now maybe the immunity is just to self, but still. You can't sit on 30 stacks of Centering/Fury for that moment you get rooted. You need to use that stuff ASAP.

[waterboytkd]

A lot of things here are similar to what I have suggested in another thread.

 

I think we could merge them together in a new post after gathering comments and thoughts from other players.

 

From your other thread:

1) Blade Rush "effect" (auto Ataru proc) should be transfered to a passive skill in the discipline, now applying the auto Ataru proc to the Slash.

 

 

The effect of the passive skill Ataru Mastery could be replaced by this (an additional 5% is nothing on a ~1k hit) cause it will respect the theme of the passive skill.

 

Then, Blade Rush could be reworked to be another decent hitting skill with an appropriate cooldown (10-12 seconds).

 

It could be :

 

- a 10m range attack, like another short double sabre throw

- a real 4m range acrobatic attack, like a jumping front tailspin/wheel, hitting with both sabers

 

 

Again, this is getting specific to Combat/Carnage. Also, I really love tweeking with class mechanics in PnP RPGs, and that's where the following is coming from--not from a "this needs to happen" position, but more of a "this is fun to design" position. That said, there is an intent in the following design to also address some of the issues facing the discipline.

 

I'm intrigued by the idea of changing Slash/Vicious Slash and Blade Rush/Massacre up. Making Slash/VT gain the auto-Ataru proc is interesting, and basically turns those abilities into Blade Rush/Massacre. It could occur on Ataru Savvy, making the ability this:

 

Ataru Savvy: While Ataru is active, Slash/Vicious Slash and Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash trigger an Ataru Form strike on each enemy target it damages, bypassing Ataru Form's rate limit. In addition, for 6 seconds after using one of those abilities, your Ataru Form has an extra 30% chance to be triggered.

 

Then Blade Rush/Massacre could be turned into something else. I like the idea of an acrobatic attack. What that made me think about was the dive roll Ops and Scoundrels get. So what if it was a 10m roll that also did a minimal damage attack to anyone in the path, like an Ataru Form strike? Basically, it becomes a good gap closer/sprint move that also helps trigger the good stuff.

 

Blade Rush/Massacre: Cooldown: 10 seconds; Roll 10m forward, and trigger an Ataru Form strike against any enemies along the roll's path, bypassing Ataru Form's rate limit.

 

This becomes a decent way to proc Opportune Attack/Execute from a distance, while only dealing minimal damage, as well as a way to close the gap on kiters.

 

A few other abilities would need to be changed to work with this. Efficient Strikes would be Slash/Vicious Slash an Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash. Saber Storm/Sever would affect Slash/Vicious Slash, Blade Storm/Force Scream, and Clashing Blast/Devastating Blast

 

This way, even if Clashing Blast/Devastating Blast still shared a cooldown with Blade Storm/Force Scream, you have at least 1 more move, and it would be thematic.

 

I still think that you could give CB/DB its own cooldown, though, without breaking the spec (assuming the rumors that its damage is low are true). They would consume Opportune Attack/Execute just like Blade Storm/Force Sceam, so you would have to reproc Opportune Attack/Execute between CB and Blade Storm/DB and Force Scream, which would also help the discipline feel less "spammy", which really happens a lot between Precision/Gore windows.

[znihilist]

I have been wanting to reply to you for a quite a while and I keep on postponing it.

I do agree with the general suggestions, although I do feel some might be OP when combined with other suggestions.

 

 

However, I think it is important to have something of the following:

 

• Revert how UR works or at least change the way it works (maybe remove 25% at activation and 25% at end), no movement or stun immunity on UR as that would make it pretty OP.
  
• Force Camouflage should replace Cloak of pain when stunned (would work as a better escape mechanism).
  
• A 10m root should be re-introduced (that can root with 1 hit via a utility), or immunity for movement on predation.
  
• Obfuscate should incur a small reduction of Force/Tech damage done from its target (25% perhaps ?) because it is completely useless against tech/force heavy specs (not to mention completely useless against sorcs). Or buff Force/Tech damage reduction on Saber Ward.
  

I really do not feel we have any issue with the damage we can deal, so a buff in that regards would be an overkill.

Edited December 31, 2014 by znihilist

[K_osss]

I like alot of the suggestions especially around GBTF and the utilities related to it. I litteraly now call GBTF Suicide by the Force because Sentinels/Marauders have the only 2min defensive cooldown that actively kills them. Get rid of leg slash and bring crippling throw back with a slow. Put a utility in there on the Masterful level that will make it a root and fix GBTF. The rest seems pretty ok to me.

 

If you don't like the root on crippling throw then give us some form of immunity to movement imparing effects. Could even tie it to Rebuke. Since a smart player can just stop attacking and rebuke would fall it could add some interesting counterplay. That might be OP but it's an idea.

Edited January 9, 2015 by K_osss

[Bonzenaattori]

From your other thread:

 

 

Again, this is getting specific to Combat/Carnage. Also, I really love tweeking with class mechanics in PnP RPGs, and that's where the following is coming from--not from a "this needs to happen" position, but more of a "this is fun to design" position. That said, there is an intent in the following design to also address some of the issues facing the discipline.

 

I'm intrigued by the idea of changing Slash/Vicious Slash and Blade Rush/Massacre up. Making Slash/VT gain the auto-Ataru proc is interesting, and basically turns those abilities into Blade Rush/Massacre. It could occur on Ataru Savvy, making the ability this:

 

Ataru Savvy: While Ataru is active, Slash/Vicious Slash and Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash trigger an Ataru Form strike on each enemy target it damages, bypassing Ataru Form's rate limit. In addition, for 6 seconds after using one of those abilities, your Ataru Form has an extra 30% chance to be triggered.

 

Then Blade Rush/Massacre could be turned into something else. I like the idea of an acrobatic attack. What that made me think about was the dive roll Ops and Scoundrels get. So what if it was a 10m roll that also did a minimal damage attack to anyone in the path, like an Ataru Form strike? Basically, it becomes a good gap closer/sprint move that also helps trigger the good stuff.

 

Blade Rush/Massacre: Cooldown: 10 seconds; Roll 10m forward, and trigger an Ataru Form strike against any enemies along the roll's path, bypassing Ataru Form's rate limit.

 

This becomes a decent way to proc Opportune Attack/Execute from a distance, while only dealing minimal damage, as well as a way to close the gap on kiters.

 

A few other abilities would need to be changed to work with this. Efficient Strikes would be Slash/Vicious Slash an Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash. Saber Storm/Sever would affect Slash/Vicious Slash, Blade Storm/Force Scream, and Clashing Blast/Devastating Blast

 

This way, even if Clashing Blast/Devastating Blast still shared a cooldown with Blade Storm/Force Scream, you have at least 1 more move, and it would be thematic.

 

I still think that you could give CB/DB its own cooldown, though, without breaking the spec (assuming the rumors that its damage is low are true). They would consume Opportune Attack/Execute just like Blade Storm/Force Sceam, so you would have to reproc Opportune Attack/Execute between CB and Blade Storm/DB and Force Scream, which would also help the discipline feel less "spammy", which really happens a lot between Precision/Gore windows.

 

 

Blade Rush/Massacre: Cooldown: 10 seconds; Roll 10m forward, and trigger an Ataru Form strike against any enemies along the roll's path, bypassing Ataru Form's rate limit.

 

What? 10m? That will accomplish more displacement issues than ever.

Think it would just be simpler to give Rush a passive cleave or something... but kudos for creativity.

[waterboytkd]

Blade Rush/Massacre: Cooldown: 10 seconds; Roll 10m forward, and trigger an Ataru Form strike against any enemies along the roll's path, bypassing Ataru Form's rate limit.

 

What? 10m? That will accomplish more displacement issues than ever.

Think it would just be simpler to give Rush a passive cleave or something... but kudos for creativity.

 

Yeah, I think you're right. I'd like to see Combat/Carnage's hotbars expanded a bit, but if Slash/VS remained, I'm not sure what the best change for Blade Rush/Massacre would be.

[Ravrohan]

Yeah, I think you're right. I'd like to see Combat/Carnage's hotbars expanded a bit, but if Slash/VS remained, I'm not sure what the best change for Blade Rush/Massacre would be.

 

What about a gap closer without a minimum distance, or would that be to close to zealous leap? I like the idea you presented about blade rush being a line aoe, but ten meters does limit it. If however we could use it to close distance or attack in place, it would give us that extra skill and some more mobility.

[mdeezil]

Hmm, as always some reasonable Changes but I would be careful about calling for DPS buffs, in PvE Balance over all classes seems quite acceptable.

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This is actually quite unacceptable. Sents / maras (and snipers / gunslingers) are the pure dps classes in the game. dps is the only thing we can do, not to mention the fact that we dont have much survive-ability, if we cant bring exceptional dps to an op whats the point of taking a pure class into one ? Especially when you can have classes with better survive-ability / utility do just as much damage . I've already heard this trend is starting to happen in some guilds. the same thing happened in WOW a few x-packs ago when they nerfed the crap out of rogues, and it wasn't fixed until they got a dps buff. Really, we dont need more damage on any individual attack, just a smoother and shorter rotation. One that allows us to maximize our dps and remain situationally aware, without having to stare at the buff bar.

[waterboytkd]

What about a gap closer without a minimum distance, or would that be to close to zealous leap? I like the idea you presented about blade rush being a line aoe, but ten meters does limit it. If however we could use it to close distance or attack in place, it would give us that extra skill and some more mobility.

 

My first idea was exactly that: a 0-10m "charge" attack (could have roll animation), but I thought it would make Carnage seem too similar to Fury. I thought the line AoE might be different enough. I've also thought that an Off-GCD attack with the off-hand might be kind of cool, but that would have the issue of not actually expanding the rotation at all (though it does help fill in the hotbars), and you still would end up with Massacre spam.

 

Even just a strong attack on a 6s cooldown that granted the current Blade Rush/Massacre buff would be a nice way to expand the rotation, albeit a little bland.

[Ravrohan]

It might be a shallow thing, but I think something that would help with any blandness would be to get some interesting animations. I said years ago that Blade Rush didn't seem like an Ataru style attack visually, being a acrobatic Form. It needed to give the illusion of movement, appear to be a dynamic attack even if we aren't physically moved from the spot.

 

Anything we get, should look interesting and fit the theme, that alone will help make things. Having another attack wouldn't be so bad, we already get shafted as Ataru form is our first active skill on taking the AC. Why that would be when we have disciplines now confuses me, but there it is.