Sorc/Sage PvP Heals 3.0 (ranked viable?)

[ProcessHeals]

Looking to start a discussion about the viability of Sorcerer/Sage heals for ranked (and regular) warzones, by themselves and also compared to the other healing classes. Feel free to also discuss gear, strategies, rotations, etc here.

 

I am currently level 55 in min/maxed brutalizer gear, so keep in mind that I do not have a complete understanding of 3.0.

 

That being said, I am currently extremely disappointing with the changes thus far. My heals are way down compared to before the update, while dps abilities seem to be doing the same or more damage and net dps is definitely way up. We also lost the instant dark heal/benevolence proc via penetrating darkness/clairvoyance, which is really killing my mobility, rotations and burst healing capability. Also, force surge/warden has been nerfed, making revivification/salvation nearly impossible to get off without all 3 stacks.

 

Now I understand there's the new roaming mend ability, and an instant&free benevolence/dark heal off altruism/dark concentration. However, they look on paper to be a net loss in effective healing (keeping a target from dying) if not also hps when compared to the nerfs described in the paragraph above.

 

I feel gimped, when I was expecting a noticeable buff and ranked viability. Before the patch I was putting out consistent, bursty heals, but since udpate I've been struggling to keep people alive and can't even burn through enough force to need consume.

 

What are your thoughts on healing in 3.0? Am I doing things wrong, do I just need to wait till 60 for everything to come together?

[gblXsw]

I've only played a few regs, but my first impression is very different. I kinda feel like there never was a better time to be a sorc healer.

[JouerTue]

did you read the abilities coming with levels? i'd suggest that and levelling before posting

[ProcessHeals]

I've only played a few regs, but my first impression is very different. I kinda feel like there never was a better time to be a sorc healer.

 

Did you do any healing before the patch? I have a hard time comprehending how the changes could be perceived as positive.

 

If anyone is actually having success, please explain why/how. Rotations, gear and any other relevant info.

[ProcessHeals]

did you read the abilities coming with levels? i'd suggest that and levelling before posting

 

Read my fourth paragraph. Yes I am aware of the new abilities, but I don't see how they could possibly make up for what was nerfed (paragraph three).

 

I'm open for growth here, feel free to let me know what I've overlooked.

[EvilTazz]

While I can't speak for ranked yet since I'm not 60, I have been doing quite a few warzones as Corruption since 3.0 and I'd say it's a hell of a lot better than pre 3.0, using mostly Brut/Obr with the 2pc PVE set bonus. I'm not 59 yet for the instant dark heal but the healing feels much more mobile than before, with only having to stand still to cast Dark Infusion and force management is a breeze, having to only use consumption twice in a 15 minute Huttball.

 

As for damage increasing, time to kill is up, and people usually only die if I'm not paying attention or they're getting focused. But overall I've found the changes breathe a new life into being a Corruption Sorc and I'm finding it very fun to play.

[gblXsw]

Did you do any healing before the patch? I have a hard time comprehending how the changes could be perceived as positive.

 

If anyone is actually having success, please explain why/how. Rotations, gear and any other relevant info.

 

Corruption has been my main spec since 1.something, when I first hit 50.

 

First of all, the raw numbers might have gone down, but since all healing has been nerfed (or at least was supposed to, from what I heard), that is to be expected.

 

In my opinion, mobility has been greatly improved. The old proc for instant Dark Heal is gone, but it was inefficient and more a bandaid than anything else, so I don't miss it - the new healing ability Roaming Mend is an instant too and heals for more than Dark Heal anyway. Why do you think that plus the Dark Concentration proc is worse than the old proc?

 

I haven't settled on how to spend the utility points, but I think Force Mobility is a must have, so I can cast innervate on the move and Dark Infusion has a lower cast time. Force management is really easy, so you shouldn't have a problem to put out more instant Revivifications than before.

 

Speaking of Revivification, it's considerably improved too, because you don't have to stay in the puddle anymore: Just run through it once and you receive the healing for the full duration! It used to be such a waste of potential in pvp, since you hardly get to stand around in it as a group, but that's not an issue anymore.

 

Overall I spend much less time hard casting stuff and I have to say, I have a lot of fun with it.

Edited December 4, 2014 by gblXsw

[Evolixe]

It's a common misconception.. but while damage might only have gone up very slightly;

Healing actually went up quite a bit. It did not at all get nerfed.

 

I know that many people expected that, and this is my major peeve with the PvP right now.

Healing went up, damage didn't move much. People take WAY too long to die with a healer present now and the only specs that can stand up to it are the massively OP dotspread ones.

 

 

As if nothing ever ended in acid before already...

Edited December 4, 2014 by Evolixe

[gblXsw]

I guess I'll have to pay more attention to the actual numbers then.

[Ianosm]

Open to correction but is it not the case that they scaled back both dps and heals for lower than 60 with the intention being that at 60 you will do essentially the same numbers that you previously did at 55?

 

That's my understanding anyway and might explain why you are feeling your numbers are 'less' at 55 now.

 

All I will say is that you should wait until 60 and geared before making any decision. I'm currently 60 and I am actually liking the healing so far. Survivability vs 1-3 people is definitely better, force management is better and mobile healing is nice. Still insure whether healing trance on the move is the be all and end all yet but I'm still testing utilities.

 

Overall it's looking positive. I am dropping easily when focused by co-ordinated dps without a guard (which is how it should be) and I am surviving longer when left alone or partially focused. Been running a few 1on1's with various classes and have been able to stay alive for a lot longer.

 

Tldr: looks positive, way more testing/experience needed

[MusicRider]

It's a common misconception.. but while damage might only have gone up very slightly;

Healing actually went up quite a bit. It did not at all get nerfed.

 

I know that many people expected that, and this is my major peeve with the PvP right now.

Healing went up, damage didn't move much. People take WAY too long to die with a healer present now and the only specs that can stand up to it are the massively OP dotspread ones.

 

 

As if nothing ever ended in acid before already...

 

I fail to see how dots would be able to break the stalemate since they weren't able to do so before with lower healing/damage ratio.... Burst on the other hand was the answer to this, never dots against a competent healer. Maybe possible in 3.0 with instant dot spread but again remember that healing/damage ratio is higher now, meaning that a healer is able to deal with multiple dot damage better. None died from focussed hard-switch dots in 2-3 gcds and none will. If dots is going to be the way forward in ranked is because there seems to be an increasing number of stun breakers which basically messes up burst specs and hard-switch tactics which has been the most successful so far. If this is not possible any longer then yes healer/tank pressure might be the way to go and dot specs are good for this... but this will result in some really long fights.

[ProcessHeals]

Corruption has been my main spec since 1.something, when I first hit 50.

 

First of all, the raw numbers might have gone down, but since all healing has been nerfed (or at least was supposed to, from what I heard), that is to be expected.

 

In my opinion, mobility has been greatly improved. The old proc for instant Dark Heal is gone, but it was inefficient and more a bandaid than anything else, so I don't miss it - the new healing ability Roaming Mend is an instant too and heals for more than Dark Heal anyway. Why do you think that plus the Dark Concentration proc is worse than the old proc?

 

I haven't settled on how to spend the utility points, but I think Force Mobility is a must have, so I can cast innervate on the move and Dark Infusion has a lower cast time. Force management is really easy, so you shouldn't have a problem to put out more instant Revivifications than before.

 

Speaking of Revivification, it's considerably improved too, because you don't have to stay in the puddle anymore: Just run through it once and you receive the healing for the full duration! It used to be such a waste of potential in pvp, since you hardly get to stand around in it as a group, but that's not an issue anymore.

 

Overall I spend much less time hard casting stuff and I have to say, I have a lot of fun with it.

 

Ok, so here's my issue. Pre-3.0 I was not hard casting at all* and was completely mobile with the exception of revivification which generally wasn't too much of an issue to stop and channel.

 

Now I find myself hard casting quite a bit to fill in the gaps and still I don't think I'm getting through nearly as many abilities.

 

I have not made it to 57 yet (as stated in original post), so still unsure what the mechanic is like with roaming mend. My issue with it (on paper) is that while instant, it appears to have some restrictions between casts ("Roaming Mend can be only placed on one target at a time"). If I can't focus it on the target that needs healing, then it does nothing for my ability to save said target.

 

As far as dark concentration goes, it's doesn't appear to be rotationally useful (unless I'm doing things way wrong). If I'm healing a target, I wont use a dps ability to activate it and both of the healing abilities that activate the proc require cast/setup.

 

My issue with revivification is that you really need all 3 stacks of force surge to get it off now without being wasteful, while before it was easy enough to do with 2 stacks (0.7s cast). Though, not needing to sit in it is a huge plus that I was previously unaware of.

 

As far as heals vs dps, all I can say is that my damaging abilities seem to do considerably more when I off-dps in matches and dps classes seem to be dealing a lot more damage in matches. By contrast, my heals are doing about 20-25% less than pre-3.0 in the same min/maxed brutalizer bolstered. Not sure how that balances out at 60 with new BiS gear, but right now it's a much more of a struggle to heal a target under fire.

 

One way or another, I understand that I'll need to make adjustments. If anyone has rotational or gearing advice, I would be glad to hear it. The more important question though, is how sorc/sage healers will compete in ranked vs the other healing classes.

[Evolixe]

I fail to see how dots would be able to break the stalemate since they weren't able to do so before with lower healing/damage ratio.... Burst on the other hand was the answer to this, never dots against a competent healer. Maybe possible in 3.0 with instant dot spread but again remember that healing/damage ratio is higher now, meaning that a healer is able to deal with multiple dot damage better. None died from focussed hard-switch dots in 2-3 gcds and none will. If dots is going to be the way forward in ranked is because there seems to be an increasing number of stun breakers which basically messes up burst specs and hard-switch tactics which has been the most successful so far. If this is not possible any longer then yes healer/tank pressure might be the way to go and dot specs are good for this... but this will result in some really long fights.

 

You need one dotter to keep the healer busy. Then another (burster) to do the actual killing.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Evolixe

[Vodrin]

You need one dotter to keep the healer busy. Then another (burster) to do the actual killing.

 

So madness sorc/sin with rage jug or lightening sorc, got it.

[Jadescythe]

The expac has been in early access for 2 days, I'm not sure how anyone could definitively tell you the ranked viability of something when most players haven't even leveled more than one character to 60. Let everyone get to 60, gear up, and then someone might be able to tell you.

[MusicRider]

You need one dotter to keep the healer busy. Then another (burster) to do the actual killing.

 

A single burster does not have enough burst to kill someone in 2-3 gcds (and should not) which is the duration that any stun would last, and with dots running the cc of the tank and the healer will last 3s the most. If you keep the dots only on the dpers, something which is pretty much impossible with pestilence now, then there is no real pressure on the healer. Might as well go with double-dotters and dot the **** out of everyone; there is a fair chance of winning passed the first min of combat if you haven't lost anyone.

 

EDIT: solo q and wzs is a different story

Edited December 4, 2014 by MusicRider

[Selenial]

It's a common misconception.. but while damage might only have gone up very slightly;

Healing actually went up quite a bit. It did not at all get nerfed.

 

I know that many people expected that, and this is my major peeve with the PvP right now.

Healing went up, damage didn't move much. People take WAY too long to die with a healer present now and the only specs that can stand up to it are the massively OP dotspread ones.

 

 

As if nothing ever ended in acid before already...

 

I have to agree with this.

 

I was trying Sorc heals in ranked at the end of season 2 for lawlz, got 1516 in a total of like 60 games, which for Yolo queue isn't bad.

 

I've noticed a rather huge change to sorcs, been playing some 60 pvp on my sage and I feel far more powerful. I got 2.8k HPS in an alderaan yesterday.... So that's a thing, I guess.

 

However I don't think heals are overpowered, I'm generally unhappy with most of my toons but my Sorc I feel has always been good, I don't expect many to start pulling insane numbers like that in a reg, and I can't say for sure in ranked.

 

The new DCD's though.... Gg, really.

[LoganRoogan]

I gotta say I love this new sorc heals.

- all heals cost less now, dont have to consume so often anymore so can use all stacks of force surge for instant revi

- Revivication applying hot on heal is just so dem good... ppl have to run throught your pool and they get full healing no need to stand inside 10s anymore

- lower cast time on dark infusion. with PS its only 1,6s , if you use that and recklessness combined with insta dark heal its great burst healing for emergencies.

-Innervate while force speeding around

- new heal combined with force bending instantly heals 4 targets with lowest hp within 20m for more than dark heal would.

- utilities like root on knockback, stun bubble, super bubble healing to full or instant cc help to stay alive longer

 

Missing recklessness refreshing PS, not a big fan of cleanses changes, and I wish I could somehow remove those new grp wide 5min debuffs while keeping deionized but well xD Just did 3k hps in regs w/o new pvp gear.

Gotta lvl my 2 other healers to 60 to see how they are performing but for now im super happy with coruption changes

sry for spelling x(

[ProcessHeals]

I gotta say I love this new sorc heals.

- all heals cost less now, dont have to consume so often anymore so can use all stacks of force surge for instant revi

- Revivication applying hot on heal is just so dem good... ppl have to run throught your pool and they get full healing no need to stand inside 10s anymore

- lower cast time on dark infusion. with PS its only 1,6s , if you use that and recklessness combined with insta dark heal its great burst healing for emergencies.

-Innervate while force speeding around

- new heal combined with force bending instantly heals 4 targets with lowest hp within 20m for more than dark heal would.

- utilities like root on knockback, stun bubble, super bubble healing to full or instant cc help to stay alive longer

 

Missing recklessness refreshing PS, not a big fan of cleanses changes, and I wish I could somehow remove those new grp wide 5min debuffs while keeping deionized but well xD Just did 3k hps in regs w/o new pvp gear.

Gotta lvl my 2 other healers to 60 to see how they are performing but for now im super happy with coruption changes

sry for spelling x(

 

I have been having more success since my original post, really hate having to stand and cast much more often though. Also, the decrease in healing output from all of my abilities is a bit discouraging, but I expect that should get back to normal after I obtain the new BiS gear (or perhaps I just need to level up and rank up my abilities via trainer?)

 

With that being said, the most hps I've managed to put up is around 2200 and that was with seemingly perfect circumstances, so clearly there's a lot of room for improvement (though part of it is likely needing the abilities and upgraded skills from reaching lvl 60).

 

Could you (or others with success) talk a little bit about your rotations, strategies and gear priorities?