Is Regular Leveling (10+) Really Broken?

[ZiggityZ]

Hit 32 today on my sentinel, only combo that even slightly works is t7 tanking long enough for me to do significant damage and then pray I dont die before the mob is dead. This is just getting silly, it's not just silvers, pretty much every mob is dealing way more damage than they should. t7 dies in 90% of fights and he's fully geared with level appropriate gear. I'm leveling so slowly because I just don't enjoy this, I've never felt such a grind playing swtor before. It takes way too long to do anything. I feel duped subbing for this kind of experience. Not to mention the ability lag gets me killed in almost every close fight.

[BDragonSith]

Hit 32 today on my sentinel, only combo that even slightly works is t7 tanking long enough for me to do significant damage and then pray I dont die before the mob is dead. This is just getting silly, it's not just silvers, pretty much every mob is dealing way more damage than they should. t7 dies in 90% of fights and he's fully geared with level appropriate gear. I'm leveling so slowly because I just don't enjoy this, I've never felt such a grind playing swtor before. It takes way too long to do anything. I feel duped subbing for this kind of experience. Not to mention the ability lag gets me killed in almost every close fight.

 

From what I've heard the "Old-Timers" talk about, The Sentinel/Marauder Class is the worst one right now, so that's two strikes for difficulty.

[Foambreaker]

The "Damage Reduction Cry Babies" are still crying even though it didn't end up being a thing.

 

/thread

[NecroMayre]

Leveling a shadow from scratch and have not noticed any difficulty increase, actually much easier now that I'm gearing my shadow and not running through with low lvl green gear.

It is a l2p issue, use your cc and don't try to take on too many mobs at once.

Edited December 8, 2014 by NecroMayre

[Neoknight]

One thing I noticed which might help some people is this:

 

Our damage might have been squished by the stat nerf.

HOWEVER

Mob health was also squished.

 

Originally i was playing quite defensively and had a really hard time.

Once I went for a more aggressive approach (Take the enemy down before they can deal massive amounts of damage). It went a LOT easier.

 

I used to always run around with a Tank or Healing companion. Now I prefer a DPS companion so that the hard hitters get taken out ridiculously fast (and thus take less damage).

This method you'll need to use more stuns and defensive cooldowns for damage mitigation purposes, but it made my life a lot easier.

 

Still though, the devs need to work this out. Hopefully this will help some of you.

[Hiragawa]

From what I've heard the "Old-Timers" talk about, The Sentinel/Marauder Class is the worst one right now, so that's two strikes for difficulty.

 

I think I have to change my opinion from my earlier post a little bit, as I decided to poke around on an old 35ish Marauder alt this week for kicks. While I don't seem to be having as many issues as a lot of people seem to bring up with them (Either since he's still leveling, or that I just know the rotations already), on Taris I noticed a HUGE jump in how Silver mobs wreck him.

 

Thankfully it only killed me once, and I still refuse to use Quinn. But I've noticed that regardless of where I was on Taris, a single Silver mob would always drop me to around 30% of my health through all of my (Defensive) cooldowns by the time it was dead (8-9 globals on average if it was alone. Add another if I spread my dots with smash to weaklings. Used Jaessa). If I worked in force choke, I would wind up around 50%. Anything with two silvers, even with me sending a companion in first, just hurt... bad. The bit with the two silver rakghouls and the one gold rakghoul was the only time I died, and I went down very quickly (Sent in Jaessa for the distraction so I could attempt to burn a silver. She was dead upon jumping in, I was killed in less than one second afterwards.)

 

Compare this to fighting one gold, I would hardly ever fall below 80%. I even took on two golds multiple times because of how certain things are set up. The double jedi sages hardly did anything to me to the point that I didn't need to heal up after the fight. Other double golds I would find would get me to 65% ish by the end, even if I picked up some standard mobs during the fight.

 

I even attacked by two of the champion mobs that I wasn't going to bother with just so I could see how they stacked up, and they were actually doing less damage than any standard silver mob. In the time it normally took me to get to 30% or lower from one solo silver, the champions only had me around 60%.

 

I took him from 35 to 38 on Taris and did all but the bonus series and heroic quests. The storyline ship and the first handful of quests on Quesh fall in line with the above as well.

 

All in all: Game breaking, world shattering, quest destroying issue? No. Does it seem like Marauders are taking more damage than any other class I've played since 3.0? Yes. Do Silvers seem wicked out of line by doing more damage than Champions? Yes.

[Andryah]

Does it seem like Marauders are taking more damage than any other class I've played since 3.0?

 

Well, given the combat lag inside the servers when they are busy right now.. I would expect any melee dps to struggle. There is no auto-attack in this game, and melee dps classically require in your face combat and rely on special attacks to out dps their opponents.

 

Silvers use special abilities as their main threat/defense (golds do not, with some exceptions). A ranged class can either avoid or mitigate a lot of this whereas a melee will be standing right there and taking it on the chin. I have to wonder how many are actually taking advantage of AoE damage mitigators for their class.

 

In the short term, Marauders and Sentinels should be using agro locking strong tank companions. It won't completely make up for the lag induced issues, but it definitely helps. Personally, I feel M and S should always do this (even on non-laggy servers) as the intention is that they deal damage not take damage. And for that they need an agro-magnetic meat shield.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Andryah

[BDragonSith]

Well, given the combat lag inside the servers when they are busy right now.. I would expect any melee dps to struggle. There is no auto-attack in this game, and melee dps classically require in your face combat and rely on special attacks to out dps their opponents.

 

Silvers use special abilities as their main threat/defense (golds do not, with some exceptions). A ranged class can either avoid or mitigate a lot of this whereas a melee will be standing right there and taking it on the chin. I have to wonder how many are actually taking advantage of AoE damage mitigators for their class.

 

In the short term, Marauders and Sentinels should be using agro locking strong tank companions. It won't completely make up for the lag induced issues, but it definitely helps. Personally, I feel M and S should always do this (even on non-laggy servers) as the intention is that they deal damage not take damage. And for that they need an agro-magnetic meat shield.

 

That basically sums it up. whenever I fight a Silver, I just send Vette in first. The lag kills you, though. You have to have good timing to not die in some fights and lag can completely stop you from using your cooldowns. I feel like using a Marauder or Sentinel is like playing on an extra difficulty in this update.

[jstankaroslo]

Well, given the combat lag inside the servers when they are busy right now.. I would expect any melee dps to struggle. There is no auto-attack in this game, and melee dps classically require in your face combat and rely on special attacks to out dps their opponents.

 

Silvers use special abilities as their main threat/defense (golds do not, with some exceptions). A ranged class can either avoid or mitigate a lot of this whereas a melee will be standing right there and taking it on the chin. I have to wonder how many are actually taking advantage of AoE damage mitigators for their class.

 

In the short term, Marauders and Sentinels should be using agro locking strong tank companions. It won't completely make up for the lag induced issues, but it definitely helps. Personally, I feel M and S should always do this (even on non-laggy servers) as the intention is that they deal damage not take damage. And for that they need an agro-magnetic meat shield.

 

I play during off-peak hours and no lag affects me. Still I see more damage by silvers. Especially on my companions, which is very odd (they are obviously not as good as me in my defensive abilities .)

This is not ONLY the server lag issue, they must have something fracked up during they damage/health overhaul introduced in 3.0. My bet: not enough testing. Post 55 seems fine, pre 35 is/was always VERY easy, past 35 used to be a challenge, now seems impossible to some.

[Khevar]

I play during off-peak hours and no lag affects me. Still I see more damage by silvers. Especially on my companions, which is very odd (they are obviously not as good as me in my defensive abilities .)

Do you any old logs you could compare to? A brief test I did on Tatooine showed about the same damage per hit for Silver mobs. So if there is a problem, it's not everywhere.

[jstankaroslo]

Do you any old logs you could compare to? A brief test I did on Tatooine showed about the same damage per hit for Silver mobs. So if there is a problem, it's not everywhere.

 

No, no testing. I'm not a tester.

 

I've experienced it. That is enough for me to say this happens. Everywhere? Always? Don't know, I hope BW knows

 

Ilum: sure. Corellia: sure. Voss: some people reported it. This should be enough for the Devs to have it checked.

[LordArtemis]

Its a real stretch, but I wonder if the solo bot had anything to do with silver boosted abilities post 3.0....perhaps they boosted one of the specials that is usually used by slivers and it was applied to ALL silvers that use that ability.

 

I know, its a weak premise to be sure. Just thinking out loud.

[Khevar]

No, no testing. I'm not a tester.

 

I've experienced it. That is enough for me to say this happens. Everywhere? Always? Don't know, I hope BW knows

 

Ilum: sure. Corellia: sure. Voss: some people reported it. This should be enough for the Devs to have it checked.

I've never understood this aversion to providing factual data with this "I'm not a tester" sort of comment. Seriously, it only takes a few minutes.

 

But hey, it's no skin off my back. You're the one complaining about this issue, not me.

[Seldan]

After testing this against some Silver/Strong mobs on Voss/Corellia/Illum, my theory is that mobs in that level bracket are hitting for the same, but more frequently than pre-patch. Unfortunately, I don't have any pre-patch logs to confirm this.

 

Pre-patch I would end fights with these mobs at 80-90% health, now fights end with 30%-40%. Looking at the combat log, I noticed some instant attacks happening very frequently ( for example, Maul 3 x 1700 in under one second ). 5100 damage in a under one GCD is quite bursty for a 46 mob.

 

I suppose it's possible this is a result of lag causing the mobs to attack too frequently as the client doesn't acknowledge the attacks.

[Khevar]

I suppose it's possible this is a result of lag causing the mobs to attack too frequently as the client doesn't acknowledge the attacks.

For what it's worth, this would explain the fact that some people experience it and some don't.

 

There was someone who earlier mentioned that they were wiped out by a small group, rezzed at the Med Center and went back to fight the same group and it wasn't a problem.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Khevar

[Andryah]

For what it's worth, this would explain the fact that some people experience it and some don't.

 

There was someone who earlier mentioned that they were wiped out by a small group, rezzed at the Med Center and went back to fight the same group and it wasn't a problem.

 

Very much agree.

 

Until we see some definitive test data that contradicts your test data and/or a fact response from Bioware, I see lag as the primary culprit here. It's been bad.. and more importantly.. it's been swinging all over the place since 3.0.

 

Until the lag issues are settled and squashed... players need to recognize that the servers have a lot of transitory client/server transaction lag waves and adjust their play style accordingly (ie: don't take risks you do not have to, unless you do not care about being frozen on your cooldowns while one or more mobs drills holes in your character and the server lump some reports the accumulated damage after a lag wave subsides.

 

Really folks.. then need to squelch the lag waves inside the server before we the players (as observers) can have an objective discussion as to if silver mobs are borked or not.

 

Hehe.. and on an old time MMO note (those who played AC will know what I am talking about): back in AC.. seems like after every patch (and Turbine was terribad at patching AC) players would complain that Tuskars are hitting harder since the patch. In most cases, it was not true... but players believed it was based on anecdotal observation while playing the game.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Andryah

[enigmacypher]

did The Morgukai 2 man in nar shaddaa ..

 

first tried solo as JK guardian and the strong mobs hit harder and are way more difficult as they stun you all the time with their one attack (you only have one stun release with a very long CD and till you stun release you can't interrupt this) and it was always annoying but it does a lot of damage.. the elites were also VERY tough and Treek not able to keep up with damage incoming even though the mobs are 30-31st level and I am 34th with leveled up gear ..

 

found someone else to help and we got through the first part with a little grief but ok .. then the champion that we have to kill wasted us both time and time again with huge hits .. stuns and uninterruptable damage.

 

hey I like a challenge but with the lack of stuns against things larger than normal (JKGs used to get hilt strike but it is now found at 41st level and that seems a little high).. but if it ways 2 man heroic most of us thing 2 players and 2 companions should be able to handle it..

 

IF you were intending this please change these to 4 mans in the tool tip as they really aren't 2 man possible atm

 

I should also mention that as is being said IT could be the LAG causing this issue.. though you don't always notice it I think it really is in effect (spikes that double you lag per microsecond means a serious issue and mean game is not updating correctly

 

I hope tomorrows patch has some fix for this

Edited December 8, 2014 by enigmacypher

[Tarbacca]

Just tried to do the Melee at the end of the BH Dromund Kaas storyline, and I'm getting completely destroyed by the silvers. I know how to play my class and I have good gear, I don't know what the deal is. Is it broken or what?

[Malorey]

The Melee quest bug is well-known and there is a workaround here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7859754#post7859754

[Luddha]

I had a previous post about this. I noted that Silvers specifically were an issue. I had played the day before the changes, and then played the day of the changes. I didn't change a thing.... the game changed. At the time of the 3.0 upgrade my highest character was 37. The character in question is a Seer Sage. Qyzen Fess was suddenly falling to 60% within seconds of initiating combat. And my constant heals could not keep his health from slipping. From this perspective I don't believe that we can dismiss my experience as L2P. In fact, I had even upgraded my gear right before setting out last Tuesday.

 

I am 43 now... and I have learned to play around this change. I would say something is definitely wrong with the change... but I wouldn't describe it as broken by any means. A slight change to Silvers and I think things will be perfect.

 

Someone mentioned 20-40... which is interesting as I was 37 at the time. It is hard to say if my issues have been alleviated as I leveled beyond 40 or if I just adapted to the new normal... But I am not currently concerned that the issues with the Silvers will halt my progress at this time.

 

I leveled a Sentinel from 20-26 yesterday... I didn't notice any issues on Taris and none so far on Nar Shadda. But of course I was fairly cautious of silvers anyway. I can also confirm that through this whole process I never had issues with regulars and golds.

 

Just passing on my observations of someone who doesn't have a 55+ toon yet... so the only thing I can do is level... or possibly go outdoors into sunlight.... *shivers*

[BDragonSith]

Very much agree.

Really folks.. then need to squelch the lag waves inside the server before we the players (as observers) can have an objective discussion as to if silver mobs are borked or not.

 

Very true. We'll never figure out what's really going on until the lag is over.

[Heezdedjim]

Strong NPCs now deal less damage with basic attacks.

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/12162014/game-update-3.0.1-patch-notes

Problem solved?

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I played a balance shadow with the 12 x boost before the update and I just finished voss lvl43-44 ... geared with mainly blue lvl 35-40 gear and a weak healer companion ...

 

after the update I got killed by silver mobs alone and groups with normlas and a silver got very hard ...

 

the main rotations of the class where changed so getting used to this is a problem, push back isnt canceling anymore / 8 second group stun has chaneling time again ...

 

but I think the real nerf is in the healing of my companion and the reason I die much faster now, despite having more dmg.reduction as before ... (accuracy at 91% does not mater much)

 

Blue gear is worthless, get orange gear and keep mods up to date and nothing has changed. I am leveling a sorcerer assassin, and yes the mobs are a little tougher...thank god...cause I have had to fight mobs around 4 levels higher just for the challenge. If you want to play using blue gear, and not properly gearing your companions, guess what...it will be harder.

[hanil]

Blue gear is worthless, get orange gear and keep mods up to date and nothing has changed. I am leveling a sorcerer assassin, and yes the mobs are a little tougher...thank god...cause I have had to fight mobs around 4 levels higher just for the challenge. If you want to play using blue gear, and not properly gearing your companions, guess what...it will be harder.

 

Oh and use disrupt. Make sure you face the mobs as well.

[BDragonSith]

Problem solved?

 

HURRAY!!!

 

I can't wait for that patch to hit! My Sith Mara can go back to slaying!!!