LordArtemis Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Truer words were never spoken, and to hear that even you cancelled your sub, LA, is a scary thought indeed. I hope Eric is still following this thread, because the explanation is very lacking and we need to see more communication on this topic quickly. Well, to be clear it is just "stepping away" temporarily. I just need some time to cool off a bit and let them implement some fixes, perhaps rethink this decision before I jump back in. I still enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propecius Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 It's not just about this, the same ones cry (sorry LordArt I know you don't like that word) anytime they have to spend credits. Rothc Casino Strongholds Guild ships. The same ones crying (again for you LordArt )were also crying (Yep) about the DPS squish and the talent tree changes. It's the same one picking up on the newest talking point. And why exactly are we not allowed to tell them our opinions? I know this is merely anecdotal evidence, but I did not cry about any of the things you listed here, and yet I am bothered by being charged twice for things I already paid for. I suspect there are others like me. Dismissing our concerns based on the argument you present above is therefore invalid. You are, of course, still free to dismiss our opinions via some other argument. And I believe everyone on this thread knows where you stand on the issue. What exactly do you have to gain by continuing to argue, being unpleasant and disrespecting people and opinions you disagree with? Surely you have made your point by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) I know you may not believe this Tdmaha, but I do appreciate our discourse. If anything else it is entertaining. And, to be fair, I apologize if I have offended you. I stand defeated. I am still going to post in the forums btw. I might have cancelled my sub temporarily, but I still have forum access. Oh don't worry no need to apologize LordArt no offensive is ever taken. I am very confident based on your replies you like me can handle our little discourse. But if for some reason during our not so long history I also apologize if I offended you. Like I said I'm here for 100% entertainment and I must admit it won't be as entertaining without you. You always throw in those edits...poking fun lol yeah call it what you will I don't bring anything on to myself and don't worry LordArt when you return I will still be calling it like I see it, if you like it or not. Edited December 4, 2014 by tdmaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I know this is merely anecdotal evidence, but I did not cry about any of the things you listed here, and yet I am bothered by being charged twice for things I already paid for. I suspect there are others like me. Dismissing our concerns based on the argument you present above is therefore invalid. You are, of course, still free to dismiss our opinions via some other argument. And I believe everyone on this thread knows where you stand on the issue. What exactly do you have to gain by continuing to argue, being unpleasant and disrespecting people and opinions you disagree with? Surely you have made your point by now. If it helps feel free to replace "cry" with "complain" it might make it less offensive to you. This is a forum on Swtor right? I obviously pay since I can post here, so by that I have just as much right as you to post here. Why I post here really shouldn't matter to you. But I've been here for the last hour or so saying my goodbye to LordArt if that's alright with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Oh don't worry no need to apologize LordArt no offensive is ever taken. I am very confident based on your replies you like me can handle our little discourse. But if for some reason during our not so long history I also apologize if I offended you. Like I said I'm here for 100% entertainment and I must admit it won't be as entertaining without you. You always throw in those edits...poking fun lol yeah call it what you will I don't bring anything on to myself and don't worry LordArt when you return I will still be calling it like I see it, if you like it or not. Time to /group_hug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Well, to be clear it is just "stepping away" temporarily. I just need some time to cool off a bit and let them implement some fixes, perhaps rethink this decision before I jump back in. I still enjoy the game. heh... well of all people.. you are the last one I figured would allow yourself to get so worked up about a design change to an MMO. But hey.... stepping back once in a while is healthy. I certainly have done so with the forum. Edited December 4, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propecius Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 If it helps feel free to replace "cry" with "complain" it might make it less offensive to you. This is a forum on Swtor right? I obviously pay since I can post here, so by that I have just as much right as you to post here. Why I post here really shouldn't matter to you. But I've been here for the last hour or so saying my goodbye to LordArt if that's alright with you... I'm disappointed we let you hijack the thread from a topic I care about. I'm not blameless in that myself. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I'm disappointed we let you hijack the thread from a topic I care about. I'm not blameless in that myself. Cheers! So not sharing the same opinion as you is "hijacking a thread"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Not good enough... Didn't realize the scope... Sorry I know better... Yeah - wasn't the closed beta testing supposed to help realize the scope of things like this. Seems like the beta testing was a failure then to me. So not sharing the same opinion as you is "hijacking a thread"? Having a dissenting opinion is not hijacking a thread. Spending several posts going back and forth with another poster (who is equal of quilt), bashing each others style of posting and posting history is. Edited December 4, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Between the INSANE price of paying for training from 55-60 and having to re-purchase skills that we were previously qualified and paid for, they really should have given us a warning that it was going to cost us so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Yeah - wasn't the closed beta testing supposed to help realize the scope of things like this. Seems like the beta testing was a failure, then to me. Fair point, but based on how PTS has worked in the past, it's a safe bet they had stuff like the instant level up button, free level 60 starter gear, and probably zero training costs across the board during testing, just so people could zip to the level cap and test the new endgame stuff. It's likely that 99% of testers spent all of their time on the two new planets, then in the new FPs and OPs, and didn't need credits for anything. Edited December 4, 2014 by Heezdedjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propecius Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 So not sharing the same opinion as you is "hijacking a thread"? Instead of responding to this, which would only continue to make me an accessory to the hijacking of the thread from its stated topic, I will instead ask if anyone knows of any other method of registering a complaint about the double-billing for skills, besides posting our displeasure on the forum. My own subscription is paid for several months in advance, so I'm concerned that my cancelling in March will not reflect what drove me away after being a subscriber continuously since early access. Obviously they won't care about one subscriber, but if there is a proper way for us to show our numbers (that doesn't involve a petition--I doubt they ever take those seriously), I'm up for it. I don't want to spam anyone or do anything in protest, but if there is a way for my voice to be heard, I want to make sure I follow through. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Instead of responding to this, which would only continue to make me an accessory to the hijacking of the thread from its stated topic, I will instead ask if anyone knows of any other method of registering a complaint about the double-billing for skills, besides posting our displeasure on the forum. My own subscription is paid for several months in advance, so I'm concerned that my cancelling in March will not reflect what drove me away after being a subscriber continuously since early access. Obviously they won't care about one subscriber, but if there is a proper way for us to show our numbers (that doesn't involve a petition--I doubt they ever take those seriously), I'm up for it. I don't want to spam anyone or do anything in protest, but if there is a way for my voice to be heard, I want to make sure I follow through. Thanks! There is a survey you take when you unsubscribe where you can express the specific reason as to why you are unsubbing. This is done immediately upon cancelling your subscription, not when it actually ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Fair point, but based on how PTS has worked in the past, it's a safe bet they had stuff like the instant level up button, free level 60 starter gear, and probably zero training costs across the board during testing, just so people could zip to the level cap and test the new endgame stuff. It's likely that 99% of testers spent all of their time on the two new planets, then in the new FPs and OPs, and didn't need credits for anything. Hence why BioWare's testing scheme and use of the PTS is a failure. Stuff like this should never make it into live, at least without a proper plan in place to account for the issues. I was fortunate enough to have logged into my Jedi Cousular first after the patch, and notice the missing skills from my skill bar - Force Lift being one of them, which raised a red flag with me, so I didn't pay for any re-training. I didn't even need to check my other characters to know that something didn't seem kosher. I don't mind having to train skills that were previously part of the tree except for the fact that skills I did pay for were removed from the class. Plus the actual criteria for forcing re-training makes no sense. Edited December 4, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_NovaBlast_ Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) late to this thread i know but ......50k.... i think i spent a couple hundred on skills IDK i just clicked on them ....i can make that in one dalillie ..... sighs looks at the length of this thread .... Its EC... the amount is easily made with dailies and weeklies i hardly noticed . Edited December 4, 2014 by _NovaBlast_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propecius Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 There is a survey you take when you unsubscribe where you can express the specific reason as to why you are unsubbing. This is done immediately upon cancelling your subscription, not when it actually ends. Good to know, thanks! I'll have to hunt around for where the unsubscribe option is. The other night I couldn't find it. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Good to know, thanks! I'll have to hunt around for where the unsubscribe option is. The other night I couldn't find it. Cheers! My account>Subscription> Cancel subscription at the bottom of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turajin Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 It's not just about this, the same ones cry (sorry LordArt I know you don't like that word) anytime they have to spend credits. Rothc Casino Strongholds Guild ships. The same ones crying (again for you LordArt )were also crying (Yep) about the DPS squish and the talent tree changes. It's the same one picking up on the newest talking point. Show me one post where I complained about RotHC - you wont find one... Show me one post where I complained about Casino - you wont find one... Show me one post where I complained about Strongholds - you wont find one... Show me one post where I complained about Guildships - you wont find one... Also, I never complained about any DPS sqish... I criticize the Disciplines and the fact we have to pay for things we already paid for, but nothing of the aforementioned. So stop posting lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 late to this thread i know but ......50k.... i think i spent a couple hundred on skills IDK i just clicked on them ....i can make that in one dalillie ..... sighs looks at the length of this thread .... Its EC... the amount is easily made with dailies and weeklies i hardly noticed . Personally speaking, it's not the cost that bothers me, though I prefer not having to pay for the same skills twice, but the point of the matter that this system shows obvious signs of being bugged, and the devs' explanation is a rushed attempt to try and justify the bugs so they do not have to deal with the repercussions. In no way in Heck should we be paying for skills we paid for previously because their name changed, the unlock level changed, or the class qualification for them changed. That makes absolutely no sense because things like that would have no bearing on max level characters, and from what I have seen, very little impact on any non-max level character as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenduKundalini Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Instead of responding to this, which would only continue to make me an accessory to the hijacking of the thread from its stated topic, I will instead ask if anyone knows of any other method of registering a complaint about the double-billing for skills, besides posting our displeasure on the forum. My own subscription is paid for several months in advance, so I'm concerned that my cancelling in March will not reflect what drove me away after being a subscriber continuously since early access. Obviously they won't care about one subscriber, but if there is a proper way for us to show our numbers (that doesn't involve a petition--I doubt they ever take those seriously), I'm up for it. I don't want to spam anyone or do anything in protest, but if there is a way for my voice to be heard, I want to make sure I follow through. Thanks! I was thinking about it. I think at best the people in charge will skim through 30+ pages, laden with, until page 25 or so, walls of text. I read them all and boy is there discontent in there, and boy is it articulate. Now that it's been hijacked for a few pages, clarity is gone down the drain I'm afraid. So I think we should dumb it down for Bioware. Why not open up a new thread about HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THE DISCIPLINE TAX. We don't have an upvote or downvote button? Let's put a smiley. Just the one. Those that are offended with how things have been handled - doubly so, with the lame "woops, sorry for the inconvenience, y'know" attitude... ...can post a Those that feel it's fine can post a In the end respect has to be a two-way street. In-game credits = time. The company appreciates how time is money - to the point they're ready to give goodies to people sending early, REAL, money. Apart from the principle of not accepting something unfair - why should we pay for something twice, why should we pay for something we didn't ask for, why should we pay - real money - for a product that was not ready as it stands, why should we pay - real money - only to be taken for fools. What if I paid for this extension, with phony money, which turns out that the company has to earn twice over? Could I tell them "sorry for the inconvenience/ thanks for your understanding, and all"??? The deal here is GRINDING = REAL TIME from REAL LIFE. Instead of enjoying the content we're paying for. Especially the new content. To those that feel that virtual money ain't an issue - well, what if the cost was 1M, 10M? That would be ten times, a hundred times as long to obtain. My time, like your time, has value. To expect players to spend all their free time working within the game is a con that will sooner or later BACKFIRE. To expect players to spend all their free time working within the game just to go back to square one? = madness. I don't play to become a slave of my computer. I have a life, too. I don't want to spend evenings that seem more like work than play, to pay for nonsense. And I don't want to have to scam people on the GTN, either, as the no-nonsense owner of a real-life business said in one of the first 10 pages of this thread. Edited December 4, 2014 by BenduKundalini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMalcolm Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 If you log out with a fully functional character, you should log back in with a fully functional character. It's really that simple. If you guys have to set training costs to 0, give everybody something cool/shiny, or send everybody a nice refund to remedy the situation... you should get on that ASAP. What this game needs at expansion release is not a legion of disenchanted players grinding credits or cancelling their subs. It needs as many players enjoying new content as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) SWTOR: where the customer service motto should read "the customer just got served". I think the term you're looking for is "serviced". "Service - verb, 34. (of a male animal) to mate with (a female animal)." Edited December 5, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 heh... well of all people.. you are the last one I figured would allow yourself to get so worked up about a design change to an MMO. But hey.... stepping back once in a while is healthy. I certainly have done so with the forum. Yea, I dont want to overreact, so when I am a little bummed out at something like this it is time to take a step back for a bit and cool off. I like to try and be as fair to the game as possible. So a little break might be just what is needed. I am sure any issues they have will be corrected shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 If it helps feel free to replace "cry" with "complain" it might make it less offensive to you. This is a forum on Swtor right? I obviously pay since I can post here, so by that I have just as much right as you to post here. Why I post here really shouldn't matter to you. But I've been here for the last hour or so saying my goodbye to LordArt if that's alright with you... You have to admit Tdmaha, you have been a bit excessive with the "crying" comment lately. Complain would be fair and far better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 If you log out with a fully functional character, you should log back in with a fully functional character. It's really that simple. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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