Darth_Wicked Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Of course! Sharing is caring! /sharespopcorn I want some too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have played Corbindalas since beta as a healer and switched to lethality and conceal as I wanted to expand my fun. He has always been my 'main' and I dearly love the name 'Agent Corbindalas' as it gets the usual comments... Seeing your favorite class take the heaviest nerfs is never fun. Depending on how Sorcs or Ops play out in heals I will likely do one or the other. As I said before, we will get 'rebuffed' again but it will take 6 months before BW realizes nobody likes playing Op healers... Healing is overrated, i'm sure there are guilds 8 manning NiM DP with no healers, or just taking along a lvl 25 Operative to heal for them since they are so broken these days... and I have no idea why everyone thinks the other classes suck at healing, if you play them properly they can put out just as much healing as any other class, yeah you might have to click an extra button, or 'gasp' position yourself properly to hit more people with a heal, but that is just crazy talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 YEah, all joking asside; I just hope it isn't too bad of a nerf. I definitely have benefited from Op heals quite a bit so am not going to be all cheers for a nerfing, but at the same time, since I like to PvP; the new meta will be interesting to see. Right now, I would say TTK is too short without healers and too long with, then even longer if you have a tank combined, and stacking a second healer does seem to make it multiply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I want some too. /sharespopcorn You want some Corellian Ale to go with that? Edited November 26, 2014 by Essence_of_Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 YEah, all joking asside; I just hope it isn't too bad of a nerf. I definitely have benefited from Op heals quite a bit so am not going to be all cheers for a nerfing, but at the same time, since I like to PvP; the new meta will be interesting to see. Right now, I would say TTK is too short without healers and too long with, then even longer if you have a tank combined, and stacking a second healer does seem to make it multiply. They need to separate PVP from PVE somehow so we don't keep getting PVE nerfed because PVP has been broken since pre-launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I want some too. *puts out lawn chair, set's up table, puts out gihugic bowl of buttered popcorn, then kick backs and watches the show* Mmm I love listening to people trying to rationalize balancing needed to the game as stuff like it was because of those dirty PvPers and the PvPers are like it was because of those dirty PvErs,a nd of course neither side except a few admit the class was just plain overpowered. It's always hilarious and the tears are delicious. /munches on popcorn Edited November 26, 2014 by Silverspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 They need to separate PVP from PVE somehow so we don't keep getting PVE nerfed because PVP has been broken since pre-launch. They said they nerfed it because of PvE. To that I can tell you I have no idea on what that looked like. I was just offering the POV from a PvP side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 They said they nerfed it because of PvE. To that I can tell you I have no idea on what that looked like. I was just offering the POV from a PvP side of things. Right, I know what they said, but from where the "imbalance" in the game was, it def wasn't on the PVE end of things, so it seems they are just using the PVE excuse to balance PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Right, I know what they said, but from where the "imbalance" in the game was, it def wasn't on the PVE end of things, so it seems they are just using the PVE excuse to balance PVP. If they really wanted to balance out PVP issues as far as healing; they could always have tweaked what expertise does for healing compared to DPS. I'm assuming they didn't want to because they were happy where sorc and mercs were at, so they chose to take operatives and put them in line with those. Do operatives not out heal merc and sorc in PvE as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 If they really wanted to balance out PVP issues as far as healing; they could always have tweaked what expertise does for healing compared to DPS. I'm assuming they didn't want to because they were happy where sorc and mercs were at, so they chose to take operatives and put them in line with those. Do operatives not out heal merc and sorc in PvE as well? If you play a merc or sorc properly in PVE (i've raided on each one at 55) the healing is almost identical, Operatives parse more healing but they are on average 15-20% less effective with their heals because of how the skills work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamanous Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Healing was vastly overpowered for a very long time. Needed nerf. I am more concerned with testing the dps specs to see how well they do in pve and pvp now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Do operatives not out heal merc and sorc in PvE as well? They do, though it's a bit of a closer race with Mercs. Mercs can generally out-eHPS operatives, but a Merc without an Operative cohealer is appreciably worse off due to having less efficient reactive raid heals and cooldown-limited burst. Overall, the healing picture is a lot closer to balanced in PvE than in PvP, but I don't think there's any question that Operatives rule the roost. The litmus test is simply this: is there a healer class that is guaranteed a slot in a serious raid group? Operatives are basically guaranteed that slot, and they have been since 2.0. Sure, some groups do run off-beat comps like Sorc/Merc or even Sorc/Sorc, but it's extremely unusual. Particularly with the Raptus healing challenge, everyone brings their "token Operative". I won't shed any tears if that changes in 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 If you play a merc or sorc properly in PVE (i've raided on each one at 55) the healing is almost identical, Operatives parse more healing but they are on average 15-20% less effective with their heals because of how the skills work. The main problem is if a Sage or a Merc screw up, you wipe. If an Oper screw up, you won't wipe unless he really screw up his screw up. It is much harder to screw up as an Oper than as a Sage or a Merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) The main problem is if a Sage or a Merc screw up, you wipe. If an Oper screw up, you won't wipe unless he really screw up his screw up. It is much harder to screw up as an Oper than as a Sage or a Merc. Basically this. I've healed with all three of the healing classes in the current tier of Nightmare content (both pre- and post-nerf). There's no question that Scoundrel is my least competent healing class, but even in DPS gear on that character, I was able to cary my weight and put up equivalent (or in the case of the Sorc, superior) numbers. That's eHPS, not just fluffy overheal. That's how accessible and forgiving the spec is in the hands of someone who really doesn't play it at the highest level. I can only imagine what it must feel like to Operative heal when you know what you're doing. Edited November 26, 2014 by KeyboardNinja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 The main problem is if a Sage or a Merc screw up, you wipe. If an Oper screw up, you won't wipe unless he really screw up his screw up. It is much harder to screw up as an Oper than as a Sage or a Merc. My sister who is a sorc healer would probably not agree with you on that sure operatives were pretty forgiving, but it all comes down to player skill, back in vanilla operatives were crap compared to sorc healers and once they got boosted in 2.0, the players that had learned to play them properly suddenly became the best healers in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 They need to separate PVP from PVE somehow so we don't keep getting PVE nerfed because PVP has been broken since pre-launch.how is this relevant to the topic? op healing was broken for pvp and pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I'm trying to figure out what content they have been playing that having an OP along is easy mode, sure SM is pretty simple, but it's suppose to be, anything HM/NiM is not as simple as bring an OP healer and you auto win, sure we can out heal most of the other classes, but we have **** for AoE (until 3.0) and with how a few of our skills work, we are not the most effective healers as skills tick while someone is at full health which results in nothing. Sounds like i'll be playing my merc healer in place of my OP if it is all as bad as it is being suggested. SMH at EAware making PVP changes and claiming it is to balance PVE. All the changes people hate are coming from PvP. Hybrids were not a problem in PvE but with 5 more points they would have been an issue in PvP. Reducing the damage ratio, same thing, for PvP, that is why the PvE explanation sounded half baked, because it was. They had to do it to prevent 2 shot kills in PvP. I wish they would at least not lie. It makes it really hard to even have a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have a operative and I do not mind these changes. It will be interesting to re-learn all classes again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 how is this relevant to the topic? op healing was broken for pvp and pve The point of the comment was that it wasn't broken for PVE so much as PVP, but they are putting the obvious PVP changes in under the guise of balancing PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 My sister who is a sorc healer would probably not agree with you on that sure operatives were pretty forgiving, but it all comes down to player skill, back in vanilla operatives were crap compared to sorc healers and once they got boosted in 2.0, the players that had learned to play them properly suddenly became the best healers in the game. Yeah.... But can you remember we are talking about 2.0.. Not vanilla And we're talking about 2.0 > 3.0 Not 1.0 > 2.0... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 All the changes people hate are coming from PvP. Hybrids were not a problem in PvE but with 5 more points they would have been an issue in PvP. Reducing the damage ratio, same thing, for PvP, that is why the PvE explanation sounded half baked, because it was. They had to do it to prevent 2 shot kills in PvP. I wish they would at least not lie. It makes it really hard to even have a discussion. I agree, clearly PVP changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Yeah.... But can you remember we are talking about 2.0.. Not vanilla And we're talking about 2.0 > 3.0 Not 1.0 > 2.0... Well I was saying my sister on her sorc now in 2.9 would not agree with you, and either way, it all comes back to player skill, not the class being broken, I guess this update to is to make it so anyone can play any class without hindering the group in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavery Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 RIP is very, very pre-mature. I don't want to repeat too much of what KBN said -- though he does nail the issue correctly -- but a lot of these reactions are very knee-jerk. Whether it was in PvP or PvE Scoundrel / Operative healers were the clear #1. There is no refutation of this point outside of trolling. The AC needed re-adjustment, badly. In PvP, unless you were with a premade, you had a very difficult time if the other team had 1-2 Scoundrels or Operatives. In PvE -- specifically a raid context -- if your thought process was, "the more Scoundrel / Operatives, the easier this would be," then there must be an acknowledgment there is a balance issue. That said, I, like everyone else, are awaiting 3.0 with bated breath to see how impactful the changes will be. But after reading the changes, and knowing that Scoundrel / Operative is still a HoT healer, I don't think it`s near the doom and gloom that some of you are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Well, we're at the end of an expansion and Operatives being a preventative healing class (HoT based) naturally looks the best when the content is becoming trivialized, when you have 180 geared raid teams that know content well the raid damage and tank damage is quite low to the point that Operatives have the easiest time rolling HoTs and parsing well, but that isn't necessarily indicative that they are better healers by design or relative power level than reactive healers or spike healers. I find my operative has a much easier time healing because I don't have to work as hard, but that doesn't necessarily translate to more power and difficulty of play shouldn't be a significant driver in balance discussions. PvP is a different issue though, and I feel like this change is primarily a PvP oriented change that they're trying push through as PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 They do, though it's a bit of a closer race with Mercs. Mercs can generally out-eHPS operatives, but a Merc without an Operative cohealer is appreciably worse off due to having less efficient reactive raid heals and cooldown-limited burst. Overall, the healing picture is a lot closer to balanced in PvE than in PvP, but I don't think there's any question that Operatives rule the roost. The litmus test is simply this: is there a healer class that is guaranteed a slot in a serious raid group? Operatives are basically guaranteed that slot, and they have been since 2.0. Sure, some groups do run off-beat comps like Sorc/Merc or even Sorc/Sorc, but it's extremely unusual. Particularly with the Raptus healing challenge, everyone brings their "token Operative". I won't shed any tears if that changes in 3.0. you know what healing class is see always getting a spot? the one that is available and not locked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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