Devs - you say you buffed everything. But...you nerfed merc

[Adovir]

I stopped reading after you said 4 players piling on you, doesn't matter what you're talking about 1v4 is always a loss. You're always going to get blown up no matter what idc what dcd you're using, if 4 competent dps are piling on you, you're dead. End of story. 1v1 you'll never touch me on my Mando, 2v1 I can probably win it with a bit of luck and depending on what's been used, anything more than that I'll never win and no one should win.

[Nightkin]

I stopped reading after you said 4 players piling on you, doesn't matter what you're talking about 1v4 is always a loss. You're always going to get blown up no matter what idc what dcd you're using, if 4 competent dps are piling on you, you're dead. End of story. 1v1 you'll never touch me on my Mando, 2v1 I can probably win it with a bit of luck and depending on what's been used, anything more than that I'll never win and no one should win.

This is wrong, phasewalk, intercede, combat stealth, Enraged Defence, Shroud, Force Sprint, Barrier, Force Camo, Undying Rage etc, they all save you from a instagib fest.

[Ryuku-sama]

This is wrong, phasewalk, intercede, combat stealth, Enraged Defence, Shroud, Force Sprint, Barrier, Force Camo, Undying Rage etc, they all save you from a instagib fest.

 

ED??? Four players will kill you through it. It will barely buy you one GCD.

 

Barrier?? Self stun... So much useful.

 

UR??? Stun the Mara. Wait. Kill.

 

Force Speed? Root the Sin. Stun the Sorc. Kill.

 

So not that many escape. Phasewalk. Intercede. Stealth. Basicly everything that makes you untergettable or pull you out off the fight.

 

Guess what only Sin, Oper, Sniper, Jugg have escapes working well.

Sniper can't capitalize really well on it considering its CD and the general lac of mobility Snipers have.

Jugg with Intercede get back to their team.. If they are solo, they are dead.

Oper needs to Stealth to escape. Trollroll just buy them time they can use to heal. But you know what? If you don,t suck and aren't already dead you have no reason to lose to an Oper.

Phasewalk is really the only true escape outside of stealth.

 

Stealth????? Mara's Camo sucks. Mara's still in combat and will die soon if he comes back.. Just watch out for him.

 

 

So three good escape that can't be countered. Stealth (if they purge before) and Phasewalk.

[Nightkin]

They all work if used properly or in combination with eachother. Problem is that every situation is to complex and diverse to describe on a forum, they all have their uses depending on whats happening.

[Max_Killjoy]

I kinda like that they added supercharge, it adds another element of depth to the class. It is a very old request from the community and im happy the devs listened. I cannot for the life of me figure out why they refuse to add a much needed defensive ability though. That boggles my mind :S

 

To add Supercharge and the triggered abilities that branch from it to the other Cylinders, they had to have reduced the baseline efficacy of the class to compensate. In the end, players of the Arsenal and was-Pyro specs gain nothing except something else to keep track of and watch build up.

[Fergz]

This is why i am glad i don't pvp. All the whining and crying no matter what the devs do. No one is happy, everyone wants insta i win buttons and you have a better chance of seeing the Loch Ness Monster than you do balance in pvp. So far every class that has had their 3.0 update announced has a thread about how awful they are now that they got hit with the nerf bat.

 

I am looking forward to these changes. Mercs are a super fun class to play and i think they just got a lot better

[LtBombshell]

No one making decisions at Bioware is even playing the game. They were fired a long time ago. Besides only like 3% plays a merc regularly so they might as well put focus on the glowstick classes people actually play. It's the same reasoning why they abandoned pvp. Too few people play your precious game mode and class so they just ensure it underperforms. One less headache to balance.

 

Please tell me you're joking. You can't seriously think that developers don't test their own games.

 

I just get tired of it when people make comments like this. As bad as your favourite class may seem, as "broken" as rock seems to be compared to scissors, I can guaruntee you that the devs have done their testing. I can guaruntee you they have spent countless hours testing and pouring their passion into this game, trying to make sure each class is balanced.

[Nightkin]

Please tell me you're joking. You can't seriously think that developers don't test their own games.

 

I just get tired of it when people make comments like this. As bad as your favourite class may seem, as "broken" as rock seems to be compared to scissors, I can guaruntee you that the devs have done their testing. I can guaruntee you they have spent countless hours testing and pouring their passion into this game, trying to make sure each class is balanced.

I can also assure that for the past 2-3 years that effort has failed, repeatedly and thus the creation of these threads. We who have been here from the beginning are frankly tired of this class being the redheaded stepchild when it comes to viability in pvp.

[Theodulus]

Please tell me you're joking. You can't seriously think that developers don't test their own games.

 

I just get tired of it when people make comments like this. As bad as your favourite class may seem, as "broken" as rock seems to be compared to scissors, I can guaruntee you that the devs have done their testing. I can guaruntee you they have spent countless hours testing and pouring their passion into this game, trying to make sure each class is balanced.

If you knew what kind of nerfs and reasoning currently going on with Merc/commando healer on the pts forums thanks to a well recognized and respected (?) forum member that doesn't even play merc healer and Bioware that base their data on this guys "calculations" with perfect rotations you are probably going to unsub once 3.0 hits. It looks like merc healing might be worse than pre 2.0 when this guy and Bioware are done with the nerfs and they are certainly not looking at pvp viability. I'm quite certain I'm going to let my sub lapse and wait a year or two once merc healing become viable for a short amount of time again or roll a sorc healer like everyone else with pts access. It was certainly a mistake by me to preorder the expansion without knowing how unprofessional Bioware is.

[Nightkin]

If you knew what kind of nerfs and reasoning currently going on with Merc/commando healer on the pts forums thanks to a well recognized and respected (?) forum member that doesn't even play merc healer and Bioware that base their data on this guys "calculations" with perfect rotations you are probably going to unsub once 3.0 hits. It looks like merc healing might be worse than pre 2.0 when this guy and Bioware are done with the nerfs and they are certainly not looking at pvp viability. I'm quite certain I'm going to let my sub lapse and wait a year or two once merc healing become viable for a short amount of time again or roll a sorc healer like everyone else with pts access. It was certainly a mistake by me to preorder the expansion without knowing how unprofessional Bioware is.

Edit: You probably cant name who that is and im not sure it even matters.

But if mercs aint viable even as healers in 3.0 for ranked then im out, nothing here for me if they are gonna keep this class so far down the mud that you just struggle to breathe

Edited November 19, 2014 by Nightkin

[corbyone]

If you knew what kind of nerfs and reasoning currently going on with Merc/commando healer on the pts forums thanks to a well recognized and respected (?) forum member that doesn't even play merc healer and Bioware that base their data on this guys "calculations" with perfect rotations you are probably going to unsub once 3.0 hits. It looks like merc healing might be worse than pre 2.0 when this guy and Bioware are done with the nerfs and they are certainly not looking at pvp viability. I'm quite certain I'm going to let my sub lapse and wait a year or two once merc healing become viable for a short amount of time again or roll a sorc healer like everyone else with pts access. It was certainly a mistake by me to preorder the expansion without knowing how unprofessional Bioware is.

 

Are there real changes or just what "he" is suggesting. Have they made these nerfs to the current build (vague on purpose)

[DariusCalera]

Please tell me you're joking. You can't seriously think that developers don't test their own games.

 

I just get tired of it when people make comments like this. As bad as your favourite class may seem, as "broken" as rock seems to be compared to scissors, I can guaruntee you that the devs have done their testing. I can guaruntee you they have spent countless hours testing and pouring their passion into this game, trying to make sure each class is balanced.

 

The first iteration of bolster and with all of its bugs along with the PTS threads highlighting said bugs along with said threads being ignored by the developers would argue otherwise.

 

That and a melee root on a ranged class along with the infamous "LOS and Heal 2 full comments" about merc/mando survivability would, once again, argue otherwise.

[JamieKirby]

Why are people so obsessed with winning ALL the time, shouldn't you be having fun and the winning or losing element just being the outcome of the fun?

 

This forum topic is another reason why pvp is so damn boring and pointless.

 

These type of topics always crop up when change occurs that makes them need to learn a new way of playing and they can't handle it and they have a hissy fit.

[Aetideus]

Why are people so obsessed with winning ALL the time, shouldn't you be having fun and the winning or losing element just being the outcome of the fun?

 

This forum topic is another reason why pvp is so damn boring and pointless.

 

These type of topics always crop up when change occurs that makes them need to learn a new way of playing and they can't handle it and they have a hissy fit.

 

Those people are 'obsessed' for losing all the time with the same pattern.

Playing my merc usually

- I drop shield and run away

- E-net one

- Surge + Concussion another

 

This update makes arsenal the worst choice imo.

[Theodulus]

Edit: You probably cant name who that is and im not sure it even matters.

But if mercs aint viable even as healers in 3.0 for ranked then im out, nothing here for me if they are gonna keep this class so far down the mud that you just struggle to breathe

I haven't signed any NDA or anything. It was a kind person that let me have a peek at pts forums. I'd still probably violate some kind of rule if I named the person in charge of doing his best to nerf merc heals. But he hangs out in the pve parts of the forums which means whatever they are doing with mercs totally ignores the pvp perspective. Bioware added a few "mobility" utilities and called their pvp commitments done.

 

Are there real changes or just what "he" is suggesting. Have they made these nerfs to the current build (vague on purpose)

I'm not going to say anything specific but pretty much everything we know from the stream/website is too stronk because it's easy to get big heal parses. And the internal testing done is apparently only done on a dummy using an ideal rotation. Their reasoning for their talks of nerfing merc heal to pre 2.0 levels is basically too easy for low skilled player to put up big numbers . Given this I expect the nerfs to go live since they ignore pvp.

 

In before being suspended.

[FerreusSteelTip]

I stopped reading after you said 4 players piling on you, doesn't matter what you're talking about 1v4 is always a loss. You're always going to get blown up no matter what idc what dcd you're using, if 4 competent dps are piling on you, you're dead. End of story. 1v1 you'll never touch me on my Mando, 2v1 I can probably win it with a bit of luck and depending on what's been used, anything more than that I'll never win and no one should win.

 

Wrong. 4 people pile a sorc, sorc barriers. The people switch off to different targets. Gives sorc a chance to sprint away and do dmg.

A jugg gets piled, by the time the 4 people burn through all the juggs self heals and dcds, they have already lost much of their health to the jugg's team, and usually lose the match. Which is why you never see strats about piling either. Not good strats anyways.

With madness sorcs, you have someone bother them. While 3 focus a squisher class. With lightning or healing sorcs, you may want to tunnel as they are useless without their casts.

 

Point being, a merc piled is a merc globalled unless their team has the know how to stun the attackers and off heal the merc.

Which is so rare, you may as well ask to see a unicorn first.

[FerreusSteelTip]

This is why i am glad i don't pvp. All the whining and crying no matter what the devs do. No one is happy, everyone wants insta i win buttons and you have a better chance of seeing the Loch Ness Monster than you do balance in pvp. So far every class that has had their 3.0 update announced has a thread about how awful they are now that they got hit with the nerf bat.

 

I am looking forward to these changes. Mercs are a super fun class to play and i think they just got a lot better

 

If you don't PvP, stay out of PvP forums in my opinion. Because you have nothing to say on the matter.

And this isn't a minor nerf. Mercs have been the easiest class to kill in ranked since the 8v8 ranked days. The class was hoping for better dcds with an update. Lord knows we've asked for them for years now.

So to have this update take away some of our survivability....

it's a slap in the face.

And damn right I'm going to voice my outrage on the matter.

[FerreusSteelTip]

ED??? Four players will kill you through it. It will barely buy you one GCD.

 

Barrier?? Self stun... So much useful.

 

UR??? Stun the Mara. Wait. Kill.

 

Force Speed? Root the Sin. Stun the Sorc. Kill.

 

So not that many escape. Phasewalk. Intercede. Stealth. Basicly everything that makes you untergettable or pull you out off the fight.

 

Guess what only Sin, Oper, Sniper, Jugg have escapes working well.

Sniper can't capitalize really well on it considering its CD and the general lac of mobility Snipers have.

Jugg with Intercede get back to their team.. If they are solo, they are dead.

Oper needs to Stealth to escape. Trollroll just buy them time they can use to heal. But you know what? If you don,t suck and aren't already dead you have no reason to lose to an Oper.

Phasewalk is really the only true escape outside of stealth.

 

Stealth????? Mara's Camo sucks. Mara's still in combat and will die soon if he comes back.. Just watch out for him.

 

 

So three good escape that can't be countered. Stealth (if they purge before) and Phasewalk.

 

by your thread I see you're a GSF player. So automatically I discount your opinion.

This is a talk for real PvP, not a mini game.

And you've also not done much of it if you think a sorc's barrier is useless lol. I mean L.O.L at that. LMAO even.

[FerreusSteelTip]

This might be the best thing i have ever seen anyone write on these forums. Every single word is true. I play all classes on both sides so i cant say im biased even though mercs is my favourite class "lore-wise". The defensive cooldowns is a major issue for mercs/mandos!

 

thank you. Wish I could join your server. I miss euro servers. But all my 55s are NA.

Wish they'd allow intercontinental server transfers

[FerreusSteelTip]

Please tell me you're joking. You can't seriously think that developers don't test their own games.

 

I just get tired of it when people make comments like this. As bad as your favourite class may seem, as "broken" as rock seems to be compared to scissors, I can guaruntee you that the devs have done their testing. I can guaruntee you they have spent countless hours testing and pouring their passion into this game, trying to make sure each class is balanced.

 

If you watch dev livestreams, you see what they do. If they test anything it's usually on a dev server. Or they do flashpoints.

Show me a dev that ques up for ranked to test class viability and I'll kiss your ***.

[FerreusSteelTip]

Why are people so obsessed with winning ALL the time, shouldn't you be having fun and the winning or losing element just being the outcome of the fun?

 

This forum topic is another reason why pvp is so damn boring and pointless.

 

These type of topics always crop up when change occurs that makes them need to learn a new way of playing and they can't handle it and they have a hissy fit.

 

Why play if not to win? There is fun to be had, and in regular warzones that's all that is needed. I couldn't care less about whether I lose or not. In RANKED however, where wins MATTER. I do care. I don't expect to win all the time, but I'd like for the losses I take to be because in a competitive setting, my team was just beaten. No trolls throwing games, no PvErs trying to accrue conquest points, and balance enough that the class I enjoy can hold it's own.

Many a time I feel pressured to log off my merc and get on my sorc or guardian, feeling it's a better class and will work better with the other players. I don't like that. I want to play every class and have an equal chance of shining on them all.

I want to win. Anyone who is competitive does. Anyone who isn't casual. ANYONE who wants to take something they spend who knows how many hours a week doing, and be GOOD at it. Those people all 'want' to win.

To be honest. It's those with your mindset that brings the rest of us down.

[texoc]

People should just wait till 3.0 hits. The longer i think about it the more i belive merc might be fine for group ranked. Solo Queue is just a different beast.

 

Currently the "only" way to kill in group ranked is to CC the healer/tank or split tank/target apart. Keep in mind CC will be cleanseable with 3.0, so having classes that can actually cleanse their healer/tank or even both can be a huge advantage.

 

Stabilized armor will give you 30% dmg reduction when stunned, which is huge. You wont die if you are stunned (+ guard or heals) and if you are not you can just kite with hyrdaulic override. Priming Shot and Thrill of the Hunt + 2 instant heals will support this playstyle.

 

Cooldown of interrupts will be increased so much more free casting for mercs on top of Energy Shield giving immunity.

 

BW said dmg numbers at 60 will be the same we have right now at 55, main difference will be everyone getting 10k extra hp, which makes getting "globaled" less of an issue.

[DariusCalera]

People should just wait till 3.0 hits. The longer i think about it the more i belive merc might be fine for group ranked. Solo Queue is just a different beast.

 

Currently the "only" way to kill in group ranked is to CC the healer/tank or split tank/target apart. Keep in mind CC will be cleanseable with 3.0, so having classes that can actually cleanse their healer/tank or even both can be a huge advantage.

 

Stabilized armor will give you 30% dmg reduction when stunned, which is huge. You wont die if you are stunned (+ guard or heals) and if you are not you can just kite with hyrdaulic override. Priming Shot and Thrill of the Hunt + 2 instant heals will support this playstyle.

 

Cooldown of interrupts will be increased so much more free casting for mercs on top of Energy Shield giving immunity.

 

BW said dmg numbers at 60 will be the same we have right now at 55, main difference will be everyone getting 10k extra hp, which makes getting "globaled" less of an issue.

 

Unless the devs change their design philosophy for mercs/mandos they probably won't ever be "fine" for ranked. Yes, there will still be some there but other classes will still be greatly preferred simply because of better DCDs and not having to be babysat as much.

 

Stabilized armor will work if you take it, but doing so will cause a drop in DPS because you won't be able to take other heroics.

 

While interrupts are a pain, having interrupt immunity does nothing for the myriad stuns, mezzes, pushes, chokes, or knock backs that are in this game that most use to stop a merc/mando from doing damage.

 

In short, mercs/mandos will still be at the bottom of the PvP ladder and other classes will still be preferred.

[texoc]

Unless the devs change their design philosophy for mercs/mandos they probably won't ever be "fine" for ranked. Yes, there will still be some there but other classes will still be greatly preferred simply because of better DCDs and not having to be babysat as much.

 

Stabilized armor will work if you take it, but doing so will cause a drop in DPS because you won't be able to take other heroics.

There is no drop in dps if you take Stabilized armor unless you mean the loss of Power overrides which kinda gets covered by Priming Shot.

 

While interrupts are a pain, having interrupt immunity does nothing for the myriad stuns, mezzes, pushes, chokes, or knock backs that are in this game that most use to stop a merc/mando from doing damage.

With all the dot spreading in 3.0 mezzes will break early most of the time. Getting "stunned, knocked, pushed, choked" harms meeles more. You will only need to stand still for your occasional Tracer Missile. Warriors will be longer glued while casting Ravage than a merc casting his Tracer.

 

In short, mercs/mandos will still be at the bottom of the PvP ladder and other classes will still be preferred.

 

Answers in red.

[Transcendent]

Does anyone think that an Arsenal Merc can afford to give up defensive traits? Worst of all you have to give up something from Masterful or higher to get a different utility in the Masterful or Heroic areas. Want less damage from AOE or while stunned? Give up interrupt protection from Power Shield, or reduce your mobility with shorter HO, or other unpleasant sacrifices. Unload on the move? What defensive perk are you going to sacrifice?

 

Bodyguard and Pyro have some better choices available. Arsenal gets to decide what defensive traits to sacrifice. It's not a terribly exciting proposition.

 

So unexciting from looking ahead at what is going to happen to my Arsenal Merc and Disciplines that i've decided to change class. As in i've taken advantage of the 12x exp and levelled a Powertech that will become my main come 3.0.

 

My Arsenal Merc? Love it dearly, but with the terrible thought process that went into the Disciplines it is blatantly obvious that the devs that deal with it haven't ever tried running with an Arsenal Merc in a PvP scenario, and equally don't understand the inherent issues that we as players have in PvP.

 

For those in the thread saying it's just QQ etc, go try an Arsenal Merc in ranked, see how long you last if you sacrifice one of your defensive buffs.